That won't work either as the 'new built system' will run Windows 11 which not supports TB1/2.

Ok got it, thank you!

No.

ok, so no adapter etc will do this?

Can I put in an extra PCI Card with TB3 Ports to use UFX+ for further use with Thunderbolt?
On my actual system I use it with the StarTech TB Adapter.

Thank you.

The 'TB4 drops TB1/2 support saga' is not yet fully clear in regards of Apple. Their misleading 'Thunderbolt / USB 4' advertisement made me (and many others) think my M1 and M2 computers have Thunderbolt 4. But in reality they are Thunderbolt 3, which could exaplin why the UFX+ still works with them. TB4 is only availabe in the latest Pro/Max versions. Will have to recheck that.

But is it possible to use the UFX+ via Thunderbolt with a new build PC System (2024) hat only has TB4 Ports?
Thank you!

My guess is that Apple will support for many years to come, as TB1 & TB2 devices were plentiful in their ecosystem. But eventually I'm sure even they will drop support. I just didn't understand that that's how adapting Thunderbolt worked, so if anyone is considering using an RME interface + Thunderbolt for longevity. You'd be best off buying an HDSPe card and using it in a Thunderbolt enclosure. As Thunderbolt enclosures are likely to updated forever, and PCIe continues to be backwards compatible.

My Asus ProArt Z690-Creator Wifi no longer supports TB1 & TB2 as of a few BIOS updates ago. After updating I can't get my interface to connect over Thunderbolt & there's no way for me to downgrade due to also updating my Intel ME firmware. Basically I'm out of luck when using TB on my UFX+ moving forward. At least RME had the foresight to co-implement USB3 on the interface. And luckily on my new Intel platform it appears to be working without USB Diagnosis errors when isolated on its own USB bus.

1) Only the thunderbolt driver supports the pitch function which is one advantage of the UFX+ over the UFX III. The USB3 transport modes of the MADIface driver do not allow for the pitch function on the UFX III.

Question: Is that a significant negative for the UFX III as compared to the UFX+, or has RME addressed this issue on the UFX III with an improvement I'm not aware of?

2) A past big negative of the UFX+ with Pro Tools; the i/o is limited to 32ch, and only the 1st 32. That means MADI starts on ch30-31, making it virtually impossible to use MADI with Pro Tools. RME has said in the past that it was on their to-do list, but it had been for years and they were taking their sweet time developing a way to rearrange the order of i/o for ASIO and Core Audio.

Question: Was this issue with the UFX+ ever resolved?
Question: Also, does this issue exist on the UFX III?

If lacking the pitch function on the UFX III isn't a big deal, then I think it may be better for my daughter because it will have a longer lifespan; I'm told by electronic/electrical engineers on another forum that capacitors start to degrade around 20+ years and around 30+/- years they tend to go out with the max lifespan about 40 +/- years regardless if the unit is being used or not. They said, generally speaking, unless you want to do a cap job on your vintage gear, that you should plan on replacing your gear at or before the 20-year mark because in audio you don't want to take any chances of capacitor degradation affecting sound quality.

I am now considering one of these to purchase soon. Both brand new, including the UFX+ (the last one left with a dealer I know):

1) 2023 UFX 3 for $2,820 (20-year lifespan before cap job)
2) 2019 UFX+ for $3,025 (16-year lifespan before cap job)

Which would you choose and why?

Thank you.

Usually, USB works very well, single cases on this or other forums shouldn't be generalized too far.

Agreed, for the overwhelming majority of people USB should have no issues.

You also need the skill to find a CPU/mainboard combination, where the PCIe sockets (that you want to use) have dedicated PCIe lanes which are not shared with other components to avoid any side effects.

Next thing is driver support, DPC latencies, sometimes maybe even the BIOS.

If you got a mainboard that has some "flaws" in areas which are important for audio, then it creates the wrong impression, USB wouldn't be well suited for audio where actually it was the fault of the mainboard.

Usually, USB works very well, single cases on this or other forums shouldn't be generalized too far.

But if TB is simply your preference, then you could have perhaps a look at the used market (eBay, …).

I will stick to Thunderbolt as long as possible

Same. I tried getting USB working with AMD's Threadripper Platform and just couldn't prevent errors and crashes shown in the rme control panel. I tried a stand-alone sonnet USB card and got the same results. I tried with 4 different RME interfaces with varying lengths of Lindy cables.

On paper there shouldn't be a problem, there must be something wrong with the platform or motherboard. But with PCIe / Thunderbolt I don't have problems.

I hope RME continues to support the UFX+ in-terms of software and firmware going forward. Given their track record I'm not too worried.

I will stick to Thunderbolt as long as possible

Well, thats another story. Why not, the same do people say, who use USB based products successfully: "Never change a running horse".

But if you are looking for a new product or want to upgrade because of one or some of the new features that the UFX III offers, well then I see no hindering point using USB. But this seems to be a hindering point for some people, most likely based on hearsay without having tried it on their own.

BTW: regarding "as long as possible". I will stick to Windows 10 as long as possible

Back to TB vs. USB … I really wouldn't worry too much, I am using USB based RME products now for around 7 years. Many other customers do so as well. I can't see any real benefit of PCIe or TB over USB. USB works reliably, and it is easy to get a system with USB2 or USB3.

If you stick too much to the position "it has to be TB" then you only limit yourself regarding purchase options.

My experience with USB based gear summarized in this thread: https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.ph … 39#p201239

To have TB and USB3 might for some people be more important compared to USB3-CC, FS Clock, quicker converters. The converters of the UFX+ can't be called slow as well. Around 50% of an already small latency is less compared to converter latency of a Fireface UC (older design).

I have already mentioned some differences, you should write them down and evaluate / weight them for your work.
If you are simply recording something through some Mics, then converter latency isn't an issue.
More interesting perhaps for direct monitoring on the device, but as I said, the converter latency of the UFX+ was already very good and now it is a little better closer to whats physically possible.
Look at the converter latencies of ADI-2 Pro or ADI-2/4 Pro SE, you will see much more isn't possible.