Cheers for all the connection information, that's extremely useful

"SFP MADI Multimode Module + Unlock Code"
https://www.ferrofish.com/de/product/sf … 02f0889301

To connect the Pulse 16 MX to the MADIface USB, you need an OM4 duplex cable "SC to LC" as you have different plug formats at the two devices: MADIface USB: "SC", Ferrofish (SFP): "LC".

Here is one example of such a cable:
https://www.kabelscheune.de/LWL-Patchka … 4-3-m.html 3m €16,83

You can get OM4 patch cables from 0.5 m up to 30 m, sometimes even 50 m.
Some dealers also offer custom lengths up to 100m, possibly even more.

If you connect a 2nd Pulse 16 you need to connect them in a chain:
Madiface USB---SC---------LC---Pulse16 MX (SFP)---LC---------LC---Pulse16 MX (SFP)---LC---------SC---MADIface USB

2x SC-LC
1x LC-LC

Although you would need simplex cables, I would get duplex cables; then you have one fiber connection as a reserve.
You can remove the clip at the SC and LC plugs to get only 1 connector, like with a simplex cable.

That's very useful information, specially regarding the Madi cable spec.
I'm really trying to move away from using ADAT Toslink connectivity because of the flimsy dust doors that fail and then the Toslink doesn't click into the socket as it should. I'v heard that the Madi connectors are way more reliable physically.

I find Focusrite Control which i'v used for years restrictive and actually really annoying and fancy a change. I have heard alot of positve feedback around RME products.

So i think i would be looking at purchasing a MADIface USB Audio Interface, a ferrofish pulse 16 mx and also a Ferrofish MADI SFP Module as my existing Ferrofish Pulse 16 is the version without a SFP module. Plus i think 3 x multimode Madi cables

A friend of mine had a mix of UFX III, Ferrofish Pulse 16 MX, and RME 12Mic.
Now, after upgrading to 32 channels, he runs UFX III, Ferrofish A32 Pro, and RME 12Mic without any issues.

As long as the MADIface USB (USB2) works on your system, a combination of RME and Ferrofish MADI devices
(or other 3rd party MADI devices) should work flawlessly. RME's MADI implementation is rock-solid.

Regarding the OP, his only mistake was choosing an improper optical cable.
Instead of multimode (OM3 or OM4), he used a single-mode cable, which is something wholly different:
https://www.fs.com/blog/fiber-optic-cab … -1310.html

Technical Specifications for Cabling:
RME Recording Interfaces: All units have a fixed/built-in "transceiver" which is multimode from the factory.
It supports cable lengths up to 2 km). Single-mode is only available via special order (for lengths up to 10 km).

RME Converters/Preamps: These usually use swappable SFP transceiver modules.
You can switch between single-mode and multimode by purchasing the proper SFP module.
But on one MADI bus you cannot switch as you want; you need to stick either to multi-mode or single-mode.
A mix of both technologies is not possible on one MADI bus.

Since the RME recording interface is usually fixed at multimode, you need to use multimode SFPs for all connected MADI devices on the MADI bus. You also need the proper multimode cables (either OM3 or OM4).

I recommend choosing the violet OM4 cables.
They are around the same price, and the violet color makes them much easier to recognize.

2x Pulse 16 MX vs. A32 Pro

From a price perspective, two Pulse 16 MXs are cheaper and you can use TRS cables.
You save additional money by not having to buy a DB25-based breakout cable or breakout console.
However, some people prefer DB25 connections and breakout consoles with XLR plugs instead of using TRS cables.

Another advantage of getting two Pulse 16 MXs is that you can distribute the port capacity much easier (e.g., to he left and right sides of your desk or when using two racks). You can then use multimode fiber as a flexible, inexpensive multicore and use much shorter copper cables to the devices. Saves money because of shorter copper cables to the connected equipment.

Additionally: The Pulse 16 MX has a "+24 dBu BTO Option" available if you want support for signal levels up to +24 dBu (normally they support +20 dBu). In contrast, the A32 Pro only supports +20 dBu, there is no such BTO possible.

See Ferrofish comparison sheet: https://www.ferrofish.com/ferrofish-ad- … son-chart/

The RME converters (M-1620 Pro, M32*, etc.) all support +24 dBu.

BTW .. I had pointed out that there are single- and multimode options,

   https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.ph … 79#p240779

and you confirmed that you had bought multimode transceivers.

   https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.ph … 81#p240781

So it really wasn’t expected that you’d then pick up single-mode cables. If you already know there are two types, the obvious thing is to match the cable type to the transceivers. That’s exactly the kind of situation where it would have made sense to double-check before ordering a cable.

For reference: single-mode is typically only used in large installations or data centers, for distances above 2 km.
Or if you have a building which has a prepared in house cabling with single mode, for whatever reason.

And .. as your UFX III uses multimode, single mode wouldn't have been an option for you anyway.
The UFX III has no modular SFPs (Transceiver) but a fix built-in multimode transceiver instead.
So there is nothing other possible than using multimode.
You would have needed to raise a special order to get an UFX III with single-mode.

I wish someone had told me the info. below, this would have saved me a lot of time and hassle.

The problem turned out to be a faulty fiber optic cable. With metal-core cables it’s easy enough to check for broken wire inside or a badly-connected plug, with fiber optic it’s different. There can be an internal breakage which still allows some of the light to pass. The end of the cable can have been damaged by scratching, which also compromises the cable's ability to carry light with fidelity. Fiber optic cables are very delicate. Don’t bend them, don’t tread on them, don’t allow their ends to touch anything. Be super-gentle when you insert them, without letting the bare end scratch on the side of the socket. It’s possible to get fiber optic cables with angled ends. You want one with a straight-cut end (90º angle).

You must have a multiplex fibre optic cable (these are blue, purple or orange and labelled ‘multiplex’). A ‘duplex’ cable (usually yellow), is not designed to take the amount of data being transferred to and from the Ferrofish and won’t work.

On the Ferrofish, ‘Tx’ means ‘transmit’ or ‘out. ‘Rx’ means ‘receive’ or ‘in’. Connect the two units with 'Out' from RME (MADI optical) to 'Rx' on Ferrofish #1, 'Tx' from Ferrofish #1 to 'Rx' on Ferrofish #2, then 'Tx' from Ferrofish #2 to ‘In’ on the RME (MADI optical).

On the Ferrofish #1’s Routings page, set Analogue Out 1-8 and 9-16 to go to MADI In 1-8 and 9-16 respectively. On the Ferrofish #2’s Routings page, set Analogue Out 17-24 and 25-32 to go to MADI In 17-34 and 25-32 respectively. Here, ‘1-8’, '9-16’, ’17-24’ and ’25-32’ are each represented by ONE moveable white square. All other squares can be put on any unused MADI/Analog inputs and outputs.

On both Ferrofishs’ Setup pages, BNC termination should be ‘on’, MADI 86K frame ‘off’, MADI short frame ‘off’, MIDI control ‘both’. On Ferrofish #1 set Delay Comp. to '1 of 2'. On Ferrofish #2 set Delay Comp. to '2 of 2'. The numbers on the screen are minuscule, so ensure you get these right.

On both Ferrofishes’ Clock page, I find the display a little confusing. Ignore the ‘SMUX/1’, ‘SMUX/2’ & ‘SMUX/3’ for the moment (for which see p9 of the Ferrofish Pulse 16MX manual). At the top of the page here, you have ‘MASTER’, MADI’, ‘ADAT’ and ‘BNC’ as options. The thing is that (i) these are not mutually exclusive and (ii) putting the cursor on ‘MASTER’, MADI’, ‘ADAT’ or ‘BNC’ activates these modes. - If the cursor is on it, then that’s the one that’s active!

If you put the cursor on ‘MASTER’, this makes the Pulse 16MX generate its own wordclock and it will ignore any wordclock coming from the RME. All three of ‘MADI’, ‘ADAT’ and ‘BNC’ put the Ferrofish into slave mode. If you put the cursor on ‘MADI’, ‘ADAT’ or ‘BNC’, it will slave itself to a wordclock source from ‘MADI’, ‘ADAT’ or ‘BNC’ respectively, external to the Ferrofish. Remember: if the cursor’s on it, that’s the one that’s active and there's nothing more to do if the Ferrofish is in one of the three slave modes.

For using two daisy-chained Ferrofishes with the RME, you want the wordclock source to come from the RME, and for both Ferrofishes to be slaved to that. ‘MADI’ stands for 'Multi-channel Audio Digital Interface’. The RME 'owns' the MADI. Thus on both Ferrofishes ‘Clock’ (‘Clock Source’) page, put the cursor on ‘MADI’ to highlight it, and leave it like that. In (MADI) slave mode, both Ferrofishes will look to the MADI signal from the fibre optic cable (from the RME) for a sample rate to use (set in the RME's settings - see below). If you’re recording up to 48KHz, you do not need to play with the Ferrofishes' SMUX settings (for which see p9 of the Ferrofish Pulse 16MX manual).

To use fiber optic cables to connect a Ferrofish to an RME MADIface USB interface, your Ferrofish must each come with an SFP module. See:

https://www.ferrofish.com/?s=sfp

Ferrofish Pulse MXs come with these modules already inserted.

A word about BNC: it’s not mentioned in the Ferrofish manual that the Ferrofish’s BNC ‘in’ and ‘out’ sockets are for wordclock only, and will not work to daisy-chain more than one unit for digital audio transfer. For that, you have to buy an additional device to connect to the BNC terminals on each Ferrofish.

It’s worth checking that both your Ferrofishes have the same firmware version and that this firmware is up to date. You can see which firmware version your Ferrofish has, by going to the first menu page, left-hand screen (that says 'PULSE 16' in big blue and white letters), bottom left. At the time of writing, the latest firmware version was 5.04.

Download the latest drivers (with instructions on how to install them) from:

https://www.ferrofish.com/downloads-2

Now to the RME MADIface USB: this will have three connectors attached: a USB connection to your Mac (or PC), and the in and out fiber optic cables to the 2nd and first Ferrofish in your chain, respectively.

Strangely, both of RME’s drivers need to be installed and opened simultaneously on your Mac for the RME to communicate with the Ferrofishes. These drivers are apps called ‘Fireface USB Settings’ and ‘Totalmix’ available from rme-audio's website

If you use an RME regularly on your computer, you might want to set these apps as 'login items', so that they open automatically each time you switch your computer on.

The settings of the RME are controlled from the Fireface USB settings app. (see above). How these are set is critical. If one setting is wrong, communication can be lost. It’s not always obvious which setting to use. I am grateful to Leon at Ferrofish in Germany for his tips on setting these correctly. Here is how my window is set up on Mac; set thus, this works with two, daisy-chained Ferrofishes. As you will have set the RME as master clock source, the sample rate that the Ferrofishes use will be determined by the sample rate setting in the Clock Mode section (see attached image).

One last thing: on their main ‘ANALOG INPUT | ANALOG OUTPUT’ page, the Ferrofishes show a row of icons at the bottom on the right. The left-most of these looks something like this: [color="#5AC10E"][o][o][/color]. If your Ferrofishes are correctly slaved to your RME, then this icon should (i) glow [color="#5AC10E"]green[/color] on each Ferrofish and (ii) show a flashing black and white square-wave icon blinking on the top of the green icon.

Good luck in setting up your devices. If you get stuck, I have found the Ferrofish company in Germany to be very helpful. See ferrofish dot com

Used separately, both Ferrofishes work with the RME, but the moment I try to daisy-chain them, no signal passes. The only difference seems to be in the fiber optic cables used.

When the Ferrorishes are used one at a time, I used a shorter, paired, orange fiber optic cable. This works.

When daisy-chained, the paired cable won't work, because the two, narrower plugs at the Ferrofish end are joined together. - They need to be separate to access the separate inputs and outputs of the two Ferrofish.

I've since learned that all fiber optic cables are not the same. (Brace yourselves:)

The small plug is called 'LC' (Lucent Connector).
The larger plug is called 'SC' (Standard Connector).

Both LC and SC exist with two variables:

1. Single mode (yellow sheathing) and Multi-mode (orange or blue sheathing) for carrying narrower or wider bandwidth, respectively.
2. Polish type (this is to do with whether the angle of the end of the fiber itself is flat [UPC, blue-sheathed] or angled [APC, green-sheathed].)

There are fuller details here:

https://jonard.com/blog/singlemode-fibe … difference
https://jonard.com/blog/how-do-you-choo … e-can-help

The moral of the story is:

A yellow (single-mode) fiber optic cable will not work with a Ferrofish. You need to use an orange or blue multi-mode cable. Both of these types of cable can use the same plug, so it's easy to end up with a cable that fits, but that doesn't work.

A quick question: is it necessary to have TotalMix running for the RME MADIface USB to work?

- Apart from your useful points about latency, my DAW would be handling the audio without the need for separate mix handling software.

Problem may be solved. I substituted the paired optical cable for using with only one Ferrofish unit, and all worked well from the RME with that one Ferrofish. Thus the culprit seems to be a faulty, un-paired optical cable.

Great, congrats! Well and bad luck with the cable.

Good to know, thanks for sharing this information.

Yes, this is multimode, up to 2 km distance, wave-length of 1310 nm is important. Another won't work.
And the SFP may not have any special (vendor specific) firmware.

Those SFPs are well known in the network area.
First you have to insert the SFP and lock it with this "hinge".
After that you insert the cable.

If you want to remove the SFP, the reverse order is needed.
Unplug the cable, then unlock the "hinge", then you can pull out the SFP.
Usually SFPs are hot swapable. But to be on the safe side you can power-off the unit 1st before plugging activity.

Nice, then you have set it up already quite well

So .. audio is working now? Everything ready?

A little recommendation.
I would use TotalMix FX Full Mode.
With 1 mouse click you can get the same routing as in DAW mode. Then you have always the option to additionally route audio directly over the MADIface without having to route over USB with higher latency.

TotalMix FX: Options -> Reset Mix -> Straight playback

A variant of this is to perform a total reset first or to route audio from PC (Software Playbacks, middle row) to Main Out.
Using the assign Button you can assign a MADI output as monitoring output (Main out).
Then the channel moves to the TotalMix FX control room, so that you can use TotalMix FX Control Room features like Mono, Mute, etc.

TotalMix FX: Options -> Reset Mix -> Total Reset
TotalMix FX: Options -> Reset Mix -> Straight playback
OR
TotalMix FX: Options -> Reset Mix -> Straight playback with all to Main Out

Next useful tasks

- Save this routing to Snapshot1
- Save the workspace (GUI, routings) to the disk of your computer.
- Save the workspace to the 1st of 30 Quick Workspace Select Slots (*)

(*) Then you can restore this routing at any time using the key combination ALT-1 (on PC, under macOS the ALT key has a different name). The first 9 Quick Workspace Select slots can be restored by key combination ALT-1..9 very quickly.
This gives you quick access to 9 * 8 Snapshots = 72 Snapshots (Routings).

Quick workspace select is for me a real time saver.
If I check something for somebody and screw up my settings, then I can recover in less than 1 second with ALT-1.

Have fun, if you should have any further question, do not hesitate to ask.

Please note that the MADI MX option consists of the FERROFISH MADI
SFP hardware module and the MADI MX unlock code which must be
purchased in addition at the FERROFISH webshop. Using just the SFP
module will not work.

Unbelievable. This code cost extra 129 !

https://i.ibb.co/Gf3B7XvV/Bildschirmfot … -34-01.png

Unbelievable? What exactly are you complaining about? Do the math. You can start more cost-effectively with the Pulse 16 without MADI for €999. The optional later upgrade to MADI won’t cost you more than the Pulse 16 MX with MADI at €1149. I think it comes with a MADI cable, maybe even SFP. But let’s not argue over a few euros for cables and an SFP—you can get a suitable 3rd-party SFP for as little as ~11 € if necessary (if you have the nerve to look for one that is compatible).

Additionally, it saves you the usual hassle of selling the old non-MADI unit and buying a new one with MADI support. That route would even cost you a few hundred euros more on top, as you loose money by selling used and buying new gear. So I see absolutely no reason to complain about paying for a MADI option unlock code to such a fair price.

I substituted the paired optical cable for using with only one Ferrofish unit, and all worked well from the RME with that one Ferrofish.

Thus the culprit seems to be a faulty, un-paired optical cable.

Worth noting: on the Ferrofish Analogue in/out main monitor screen, there is a little MADI socket icon bottom left of the (little) right hand screen. This glows green when an optical connection is detected.

I was getting this icon glowing on Ferrofish #2 when the two Ferrofishes were daisy-chained, but no signal was coming through. When only one Ferrofish is connected (with a different cable), these icons light up and signal passes.

For info., each Ferrofish Pulse 16 MX here has its own SFP module. These are both labelled:

Ferrofish SFP-FE-MM1310-4
MADI MM 2Km 1310nm DDM

The SFP modules have a strange hinged clip on the back. Whether the hinge is in the 'up' position or 'down', a cable can be connected. I had my hinges down, but have now set them to the clicked 'up' position before inserting optical cables.

Some other tips for folk who find themselves in a similar situation…

The RemoteFish application is worth using, because it does more than just remote-control the Ferrofish. When I connected one of my units, the RemoteFish application popped a message up informing me that the firmware version of one of the units was obsolete.

Free firmware updates can be found here for both Windows and Mac:

https://www.ferrofish.com/de/downloads

The firmware updates for me connected using the ‘USB MIDI Device’ as a port for both MIDI in and MIDI out.

Remember to press the ‘Disconnect’ button in the firmware update application, before quitting that application.

OP didn't mention of this.

Page 20 user manual :

Bitte beachten Sie, dass die MADI Option aus (a) dem MADI SFP Modul
und (b) der MADI MX Softwarelizenz aus dem FERROFISH Webshop
besteht. Ein Kauf und Einstecken des SFP Moduls allein funktioniert
nicht.

and from the English version :

Please note that the MADI MX option consists of the FERROFISH MADI
SFP hardware module and the MADI MX unlock code which must be
purchased in addition at the FERROFISH webshop. Using just the SFP
module will not work.

Unbelievable

This code cost extra 129 !

So he has two type of cables
a) LC <-> SC for the connection between MADIface USB and Ferrofish MX16 #1 and the way back #2 to MADIface USB
b) SC <-> SC for the connection between the Ferrofishes.

With those he can't perform a loop test on the MADIface USB which needs an SC <-> SC cable.
On the Ferrofish itself it would be possible with one of those LC <-> LC cables.

Other reasons for a failing MADI connection come into mind
1. The SFPs need to snap into place
2. The multimode cables plugs need to snap into place, special care with the LC plugs at the SFP
3. Perhaps not using multimode but single mode SFPs? Single mode is laser (too high energy and laser beam)
4. Perhaps not using compatible SFPs
    - wrong firmware - best is to use one with **NO** special firmware: no Cisco, Intel, Brocade, etc
    - wrong wavelength, 1310 nm is needed.
    I would use those from RME or Ferrofish to be on the safe side.
    See e.g. this SFP module ** multimode **: https://rme-audio.de/de_sfp-module.html