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Topic: New HDSP series Windows driver generation - public beta - Update

Hello,

the new generation of HDSP and HDSPe series driver is ready for public beta testing. As usual do not use this one on a production system and with sensitive data. If you need to make money with our hardware - don't fool around, use what works, stay safe!

For all other curious software warriors: while still fully compatible to XP this new driver is targeted more for Windows 7. It has full WDM support including setting the sample rate (as known already from the USB and FireWire drivers), plus a lot more changes, see below. It should also fix a lot issues reported over time, like with surround playback.

Its most spectacular feature is the addition of multi-client mixing. You can now use any number of programs of any sort (WDM, ASIO) to play back on the same channels. Note that as long as you use only one program per playback channel the driver works as before, including bit-perfect playback.

This new driver also delivers what we promised before: an update to the 'old' TotalMix, addressing the most important features wanted. TM will never become a TM FX, but some things were really bothering us too, so you now get 4 fader groups (plus a temporary one), an undo for the most worst error (accidentally loading a preset), and additional MIDI remote functions (see below).

- Correct installation of the Settings dialog under Win 64 (solves crash when called from Cubase)

- Settings dialog completely reworked

- Settings dialog saves the current position

- WDM driver completely reworked. Sample rate is now set in the Settings dialog (Win 7).

- Multi-client playback mixing on identical channels

- Optimized callbacks for multiple cards usage on multi-processor machines


- TotalMix Update:

- - 4 fader groups definable. Use 'Save All Presets' to store them to a file.

- - Undo of the last Preset loading

- - New options to deactivate the Mackie protocol and the Level Meters

- - Level Meter data added to Mackie protocol

- - Post fader mode added (Mackie: F16. On: MIDI channel 1, note on A 4. Off: MIDI channel 1, note off A 4)

- - Direct submix selection via Control Change commands (channel 1/2: BC 68/69 xx, channel 3/4: BC 6A/6B xx etc.)

Happy testing!


!!!!!!! Update !!!!!!! 03/14/2011
Fixed since version 3.19:

- The option L (Link Faders) overwrites the fader groups
- The option L (Link Faders) freezes the Grpx display (no gain values shown when moving the fader)
- MIDI data corrupted. Does not happen on all computers.

!!!!!!! Update !!!!!!! 05/15/2011
Version 3.24 has now been released on the website. It includes improvements when using the TCO. If you do please also note the accompanying firmware updates for the HDSPe cards.

Known issues in 3.24:
- The setting 5.1 or 7.1 of the Loudspeaker is lost after a change of the sample rate. This seems to be a Windows internal problem that we can not address at this time.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: New HDSP series Windows driver generation - public beta - Update

I'll gladly beta test this on my home W7-64 desktop with a Multiface HDSP PCI!  I'll hold off on the MADI DAW wink

Will there be an accompanying firmware flash required - or is Multiface HDSP PCI "Hardware Revision 17" fully compatible with this driver?

DL'ing now... cool

MADIface-XT+ARC / 3x HDSP MADI / ADI648
2x SSL Alphalink MADI AX
2x Multiface / 2x Digiface /2x ADI8

Re: New HDSP series Windows driver generation - public beta - Update

Hi, Matthias

I am a new member of the RME user-community. Pleased to meet you smile
And the timing of your release of this driver is a happy coincidence.

I ordered HDSPe and Multiface yesterday, to replace my  MAudio Delta 1010 which was showing its age, and also displaying the known Win7 compatibility problems.

My work in Cubase is juxtaposed with musical research done on Youtube and tests of mix downs on various media players, including Virtual DJ Pro; and I am using 64bit Windows.

Since I will be starting from a clean slate, I've downloaded this driver. When your product arrives I will install it and will follow this thread and report my findings when appropriate.

Best wishes
Glyn Powell.

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Re: New HDSP series Windows driver generation - public beta - Update

No new firmware necessary. Just the latest one from the website.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

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Re: New HDSP series Windows driver generation - public beta - Update

Could it be that there's something broken with the MIDI-interface? Seems strange but my sampler/keyboard didn't work (although MIDI-OX receives the commands), after reverting to 3.085 all is ok again.

6 (edited by blakerobinson 2011-03-09 01:54:42)

Re: New HDSP series Windows driver generation - public beta - Update

Great work! I've been having some real headaches with my current setup (M-Audio 1010LT card not behaving alongside the HDSP and causing hangs) and this seems to have fixed it. Really liking the new drivers. What kind of ETA are you looking at in regards to releasing the finalised stable driver?

Also are you guys intending to support the HDSP 9652 when it comes to drivers for a while yet? I am building a new rig soon and contemplating whether I should look at upgrading my HDSP to something like an HDSPe. Obviously my HDSP was quite an investment and I have loved it so far so not keen to upgrade if I don't have to.

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Re: New HDSP series Windows driver generation - public beta - Update

This is a combined driver, means HDSP will be continued to be supported.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: New HDSP series Windows driver generation - public beta - Update

It should also fix a lot issues reported over time, like with surround playback.

Could you please describe step by step which settings should I use to achieve surround playback via ADAT channels.

Thanks

i7-9700, 32GB RAM, NVidia GTX 1080 ti, RME Babyface Pro FS, Nuendo 11, Windows 10

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Re: New HDSP series Windows driver generation - public beta - Update

The same you did before. Just try if and what works, then please write here, so we keep track and might further change this.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: New HDSP series Windows driver generation - public beta - Update

VLC is working OK only if I use Waveout (same as before), WMP is playing back 5.1 PCM file correctly.

i7-9700, 32GB RAM, NVidia GTX 1080 ti, RME Babyface Pro FS, Nuendo 11, Windows 10

11 (edited by tarsier 2011-03-09 20:21:18)

Re: New HDSP series Windows driver generation - public beta - Update

Using a RayDAT set to Internal Clock. Using Sonar X1a and Audition 3.0.1. I want to play back projects with either 48 or 44.1 kHz sample rate.   

When I playback a 48 kHz project in either Sonar or Audition (ASIO mode in each), all is well. When I playback a 44.1 kHz project, the RayDAT doesn't change its clock to 44.1, it remains at 48 kHz and thus the project is playing higher in pitch. Should the RayDAT change sample rate to match the project's sample rate?

Also, in the Hammerfall DSP Settings, the Sample Rate drop down is disabled. I have the Clock Source set to Internal. Should I be able to set the sample rate?

This also happened with the previous driver, but I thought I'd try out this new beta.

I have the RayDAT connected through the ADAT ports to a Yamaha 02R. The 02R is set to receive its clock from the RayDAT ADAT port.

Edit to add: This is under Windows 7 64-bit

Re: New HDSP series Windows driver generation - public beta - Update

Preliminary testing on a Thinkpad T500 with Intel Graphics Accelerator (not a separate video card) are very promising.

I had a very strange problem with the older CardBus card and the ExpressCard.  My DAW (SAC) did not function at all when Output Channel 9 (ADAT 17 & 18), and Input Channel 10 (ADAT 19 & 20) were assigned.  With this new driver, I am able to use all inputs and outputs.  There were no slipped buffers during my 2 hour test.  CPU usage was low, even with 32 samples selected

VERY positive results.  THANKS!

Testing with:
Thinkpad T500 with ExpressCard, Win7 SP1
Digiface
2 Octamic-D, Motu 8pre
2 ADI 8-Pro

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Re: New HDSP series Windows driver generation - public beta - Update

tarsier wrote:

When I playback a 48 kHz project in either Sonar or Audition (ASIO mode in each), all is well. When I playback a 44.1 kHz project, the RayDAT doesn't change its clock to 44.1, it remains at 48 kHz and thus the project is playing higher in pitch. Should the RayDAT change sample rate to match the project's sample rate?

You can not change the sample rate when more than one ASIO host is running.

tarsier wrote:

Also, in the Hammerfall DSP Settings, the Sample Rate drop down is disabled. I have the Clock Source set to Internal. Should I be able to set the sample rate?

No. The ASIO host does that. That's why it is greyed out as soon as ASIO is active.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: New HDSP series Windows driver generation - public beta - Update

Matthias, is it OK that VLC is working properly only via waveout? Using direct x results in playing back surround channels on all 6 channels again.

i7-9700, 32GB RAM, NVidia GTX 1080 ti, RME Babyface Pro FS, Nuendo 11, Windows 10

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Re: New HDSP series Windows driver generation - public beta - Update

WMP is the reference. I have no clue what VLC does, but having waveout seems to be a nice additional option, not a problem.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: New HDSP series Windows driver generation - public beta - Update

OK, thanks.

i7-9700, 32GB RAM, NVidia GTX 1080 ti, RME Babyface Pro FS, Nuendo 11, Windows 10

Re: New HDSP series Windows driver generation - public beta - Update

MC wrote:
tarsier wrote:

When I playback a 48 kHz project in either Sonar or Audition (ASIO mode in each), all is well. When I playback a 44.1 kHz project, the RayDAT doesn't change its clock to 44.1, it remains at 48 kHz and thus the project is playing higher in pitch. Should the RayDAT change sample rate to match the project's sample rate?

You can not change the sample rate when more than one ASIO host is running.

I was not running more than one host. I tried them one at a time, separately, to test with each one. The RayDAT never changed its sample rate.

18 (edited by deathlord 2011-03-10 19:40:53)

Re: New HDSP series Windows driver generation - public beta - Update

MC wrote:

WMP is the reference. I have no clue what VLC does, but having waveout seems to be a nice additional option, not a problem.

Nooo!!

If WMP is the only player being tested, yet *all* other players can't play surround sound (through WDM) this is a bit "unfortunate", don't you think?

The issue reported here
http://www.rme-audio.de/forum/viewtopic.php?id=9586
and here
http://www.rme-audio.de/forum/viewtopic.php?id=10407
is *not solved in this new beta driver*.

E.g. foobar2000 simply gives

"Unrecoverable playback error: Device not found"
when provided with a simple 5.1 48/16 test file like the one here:
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=T0D09T1A

As described in both of the above threads, the problem can be worked around by using slysoft's reclock audio renderer to make the media player in output through waveout or WASAPI.
However, reclock might not work in all situations and most users will never think of this possibility and are thus currently *unable to play back any surround content through a standard  media player (other than WMP)*!

19 (edited by dadrumma 2011-03-11 00:08:50)

Re: New HDSP series Windows driver generation - public beta - Update

I've just updated to this driver from 3.083 to xp64 desktop and vista64 laptop. Played audio fine but midi is not working correctly. Upon playing a couple of drum vst's-the velocity response is backwards-soft=louder, louder=softer. Both desktop and laptop were effected the same way. Using Reaper as the daw. Re-installed 3.083-everything working properly again. I looked into the settings but didn't find anything that changed this behavior. I am using the onboard midi of the digiface for the desktop and multiface II for the laptop.

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Re: New HDSP series Windows driver generation - public beta - Update

tarsier wrote:

When I playback a 48 kHz project in either Sonar or Audition (ASIO mode in each), all is well. When I playback a 44.1 kHz project, the RayDAT doesn't change its clock to 44.1, it remains at 48 kHz and thus the project is playing higher in pitch. Should the RayDAT change sample rate to match the project's sample rate?

This also happened with the previous driver, but I thought I'd try out this new beta.

Please be more clear. The previous driver definitely had no bug in changing the sample rate from the ASIO host. To check the correct function please do this:

Open the settings dialog
Open a level meter in DIGICheck
Hit F3, set the ASIO driver and card and channels, check 'Set sample rate for ASIO inputs', select a different than the current sample rate, hit Ok. The level meter should work and the sample rate should have changed although it is greyed out.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

21 (edited by vinark 2011-03-11 11:50:47)

Re: New HDSP series Windows driver generation - public beta - Update

Audio performance OK. Midi get note when note off is send from keyboard (so one note when playing a note and one when releasing). Went back to non beta and issue is gone.
HDSP9652, WinXP64, Cubase 4 and 6
HDSP Settings is indeed opening from cubase now.

Oh and the pitch of the note off seems to be related to the velocity when played. It is not identical to the note on.

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
Babyface pro fs, HDSP9652+ADI-8AE, HDSP9632

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Re: New HDSP series Windows driver generation - public beta - Update

Thanks all, we are looking into it right now.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: New HDSP series Windows driver generation - public beta - Update

No problems here with my MIDI keyboard + HDSP 9632 + REAPER.

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Re: New HDSP series Windows driver generation - public beta - Update

deathlord wrote:

E.g. foobar2000 simply gives

"Unrecoverable playback error: Device not found"
when provided with a simple 5.1 48/16 test file like the one here:
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=T0D09T1A

Thanks for that test file. I downloaded Foobar 1.1.5, set up first the Babyface then the Multiface as Loudspeaker with 5.1 property in Win 7, then played back the above file without any error message on both systems via 6 separated channels. Output was set to 'Primärer Soundtreiber' (Primary Sound driver or so).

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: New HDSP series Windows driver generation - public beta - Update

MC wrote:
deathlord wrote:

E.g. foobar2000 simply gives

"Unrecoverable playback error: Device not found"
when provided with a simple 5.1 48/16 test file like the one here:
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=T0D09T1A

Thanks for that test file. I downloaded Foobar 1.1.5, set up first the Babyface then the Multiface as Loudspeaker with 5.1 property in Win 7, then played back the above file without any error message on both systems via 6 separated channels. Output was set to 'Primärer Soundtreiber' (Primary Sound driver or so).

Thanks for testing. Can you please also test a HDSP 9632? It might be different for different cards.
I have a 9632, Win7x64, foobar2000 1.1.5. As reported MediaPlayerClassic and VLC also give problems. E.g. in MPC I simply don'g get any sound at all with this file.
Rustami also reported the problem with a 9632.

While you are testing: Please also test this file (7.1):
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=GM455Z5I
and pay attention to where the side channels come from. Obviously we want them to come from the same (side) speakers for both the 5.1 and 7.1 test file. You will notice that this is not the case: the side channels will come through the back channels or vice versa. You should be able to do the test even if you have only 5.1 speakers: you can see where the "missing" channels are played in totalmix.
If you can confirm this I can provide more information from Microsoft that explains why this happens and hopefully this can then be solved easily.

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Re: New HDSP series Windows driver generation - public beta - Update

Thanks again. I can confirm that on 7.1 playback channels 5/6 and 7/8 are swapped, so the side information is played via the rear speakers. This is an error in all our drivers, should be fixed quickly. Regarding 9632, we will check further.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

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Re: New HDSP series Windows driver generation - public beta - Update

The reported MIDI errors do not happen on any machine. But we were lucky to have one where it shows up and think we can fix it quickly.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: New HDSP series Windows driver generation - public beta - Update

MC wrote:

Thanks again. I can confirm that on 7.1 playback channels 5/6 and 7/8 are swapped, so the side information is played via the rear speakers. This is an error in all our drivers, should be fixed quickly. Regarding 9632, we will check further.

Great!

What about the interleaved option? There is no such option anymore, will it come back?

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Re: New HDSP series Windows driver generation - public beta - Update

No, it is not necessary anymore.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: New HDSP series Windows driver generation - public beta - Update

MC wrote:

No, it is not necessary anymore.

Ok, but I think it is only working if ADAT1+2 is the system default. Is this intended?

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Re: New HDSP series Windows driver generation - public beta - Update

No, it is automatically working. The ADAT channels can be used stereo or interleaved (up to 8) by software that supports that format directly. There are a few. Before that setting was used to define the speaker as 2 or 8 channel mode. That is now done in the speaker control panel.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: New HDSP series Windows driver generation - public beta - Update

MC wrote:

No, it is automatically working. The ADAT channels can be used stereo or interleaved (up to 8) by software that supports that format directly. There are a few. Before that setting was used to define the speaker as 2 or 8 channel mode. That is now done in the speaker control panel.

Ok,  but in this case it is not working correctly, yet. When I play an 8 channel file (like the one above) in MPC when ADAT1+2 is system default, everything is fine. But when I set e.g. Analog1+2 as system default, I get an error "format not supported".

Of course this is not a major problem, I can just let ADAT1+2 be system default.
But as it is recommended not to have the "important" channels as system default (to avoid playing system sounds through them etc, as described in the manual), it would be desirable to have it working also otherwise. With the old driver and "interleaved" activated this was possible.

Btw., I have to use reclock in WASAPI or waveout mode to get this behaviour. Without reclock or with reclock in directsound mode I do not get any sound because of the other problem discussed above.

Just to summarize: I agree, it is automatically working, which is great. But only if ADAT1+2 is set as the default device in the speaker control panel.

Re: New HDSP series Windows driver generation - public beta - Update

Hi , what about support in Multimadia Keybourd in Windows 7 ? will it be in this version?

Thanks
Guy.

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Re: New HDSP series Windows driver generation - public beta - Update

Sorry, but you have to apply a little bit common sense here. Your card has only 2 analog outputs. Why should it support 8-channel playback on that analog device then? It will support 6-channel playback as soon as you add a A4OS-192 card, as you have 6 analog outputs then.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

35 (edited by tarsier 2011-03-14 17:42:07)

Re: New HDSP series Windows driver generation - public beta - Update

MC wrote:

To check the correct function please do this:

Open the settings dialog
Open a level meter in DIGICheck
Hit F3, set the ASIO driver and card and channels, check 'Set sample rate for ASIO inputs', select a different than the current sample rate, hit Ok. The level meter should work and the sample rate should have changed although it is greyed out.

I tried this, and this works as expected. The sample rate does change.

But this does not work as expected:
-Have the settings dialog open to view the sample rate
-Have the sample rate at 44100 Hz
-Open a 44100 Hz project in Sonar X1a
-Play the project and all is well
-Close the 44100 project
-Open a 48000 Hz project in Sonar X1a
-Observe the sample rate in the settings dialog
-Play the 48000 Hz project

Result: the sample rate briefly switches to 48000 but then switches back to 44100.

It seems as though I can only switch sample rate through the DIGICheck Device setup function.

edit: added Sonar version number
edit#2 to add:
-have RayDAT set to 48000
-Play a 44100 project in Sonar
-The RayDAT briefly is set to 44100 but then goes back to 48000, thus the project plays at the wrong pitch
-While Sonar is playing, use DIGICheck options to set sample rate to 44100
-This will set the RayDAT to 44100 and the Sonar project plays at the correct pitch

Re: New HDSP series Windows driver generation - public beta - Update

MC wrote:

Sorry, but you have to apply a little bit common sense here. Your card has only 2 analog outputs. Why should it support 8-channel playback on that analog device then? It will support 6-channel playback as soon as you add a A4OS-192 card, as you have 6 analog outputs then.

Common, I do have this amount of common sense. The playback is always through ADAT, which has 8 channels. Please read my post again and try it out, you will notice what I wrote is correct.

Default device = ADAT and playback device = ADAT --> multi channel ok
Default device = not ADAT and playback device = ADAT --> multi channel = error message.

Re: New HDSP series Windows driver generation - public beta - Update

I just purchased and installed an AEB4 in and out for my HDSP 9652. I'm getting periodic system hangs with these new drivers. There's no way to even debug it as the machine juts completely locks up. I've rolled back to 3085 to see if it occurs with those also. However, I'm obviously a bit wary that this will be a problem when you release the new drivers.

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Re: New HDSP series Windows driver generation - public beta - Update

That sounds more like you have a very old HDSP 9652 of PCB revision below 1.6 that needs a modification to run stable on latest motherboards.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

39 (edited by blakerobinson 2011-03-15 18:22:52)

Re: New HDSP series Windows driver generation - public beta - Update

It appears I have rev 1.3. How would I go about getting this modification?

Re: New HDSP series Windows driver generation - public beta - Update

Contact Synthax UK.

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

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Re: New HDSP series Windows driver generation - public beta - Update

MC wrote:

I can confirm that on 7.1 playback channels 5/6 and 7/8 are swapped, so the side information is played via the rear speakers. This is an error in all our drivers, should be fixed quickly.

Looks like I have to take this back, it is not an error in our driver. Windows just plays it back like that, and so far we do not see how to fix this. If we swap channels then they will be wrong in other modes. For example you set to 7.1, but only play back a 5.1 file - everything correct now. Would be wrong when swapped.

Also we support both 5.1 modes. When using the second mode with rear speakers as 5.1 mode then the 7.1 mode will be compatible.

Or do you have other information, or a reference implementation where it is working correctly? So far everything I found while googling was a big surround mess when it comes to 7.1...

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: New HDSP series Windows driver generation - public beta - Update

MC wrote:

If we swap channels then they will be wrong in other modes. For example you set to 7.1, but only play back a 5.1 file - everything correct now. Would be wrong when swapped

I agree, it is not as simple as that. Instead, the swapping must depend on the format being played, i.e. the channel mask.
In most cases this is done by some Windows-internal mechanism. However, Pro-Audio equipment like RME cards seem to bypass these mechanisms, that's why we have this problem.
According to Microsoft, in this case it is the driver that has to swap the channels accordingly:

Microsoft wrote:

When designing an audio driver, the driver writer must decide whether to handle its own format conversions or rely on the system mixer to do the conversions. The driver might need to handle the conversions in either of the following situations:

    * If the driver requires the conversion to be performed in a manner that differs from the conversion performed by the system mixer.
    * If the driver must play streams that bypass the system mixer.

Source:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library … 85%29.aspx
(section "System Mixer Behavior" at the bottom)

I assume it is out of the question for RME to "rely on the system mixer to do the conversions". Consequently the driver has to do these conversion by itself.

Now, each audio stream being played has a channel mask. E.g. a 5.1 stream either has 0x3F or 0x60F. A 7.1 stream always has 0x63F. This tells the driver how many channels there are.

In my opinion the simplest solution is the following:
Whenever the driver receives a 7.1 signal, i.e. channel mask 0x63F, it swaps back and rear channels.
This way, we always get correct mapping.

BTW, I think this problem also existed on some graphic cards with hdmi-audio and was then fixed by a driver update.

43 (edited by Dandruff 2011-03-16 02:48:32)

Re: New HDSP series Windows driver generation - public beta - Update

Matthias,

when using the mousewheel to change a setting, would it be possible to scroll the dropdown where we have the mouse cursor placed rather than scrolling the dropdown which is active?


Example:

-> "Buffersize" dropdown = active/focus
-> hover mouse over "Sample Rate" dropdown and scroll with the mousewheel


Result: "Buffersize" changes
Expected: "Sample Rate" changes



Would be cool.

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Re: New HDSP series Windows driver generation - public beta - Update

Katmouse. Wizmouse.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: New HDSP series Windows driver generation - public beta - Update

MC wrote:

Katmouse. Wizmouse.

Ok, but I don't wanna use additional 3rd party applications for this! In REAPER ("Media Item Properties" Dialog for example) it's possible too. So I guess it shouldn't be that complicated to program (standard Windows controls seem to support it).





Another wish:


Configuration of a global hotkey to lower/raise volume of a selected output pair. This way I could adjust volume without the need to have my display turned on all the time.


Again: I don't want to to use additional 3rd party tools for such things. MIDI controller also isn't an option here.

Re: New HDSP series Windows driver generation - public beta - Update

Tray icons still don't get restored after explorer.exe crash and restart of explorer.exe!

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Re: New HDSP series Windows driver generation - public beta - Update

The priority for that change is lower then the lowest sublevel I could imagine. We really have more important things to fix and to add!

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: New HDSP series Windows driver generation - public beta - Update

I know. But isn't this simple stuff which is done in five minutes?

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Re: New HDSP series Windows driver generation - public beta - Update

Nobody knows until it has been fixed...

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: New HDSP series Windows driver generation - public beta - Update

OK wink


Another nitpick:

File properties say "© Martin Bjoernsen 1994-2009". I think that should be updated to "© Martin Bjoernsen 1994-2011" ...