Re: USB recording media recommendation for UFX - pen drives etc.

Maikoru wrote:

I'd say forget the stick and run with a small usb drive ... Harder to lose too!

Yeah. That's right!

@Daniel Fuchs: How much current in mA can the USB port on the front of the UFX deliver for bus powered USB HDD?

Re: USB recording media recommendation for UFX - pen drives etc.

I'm not entirely sure... I've run a 500 MB Iomega drive (with a Seagate inside) with no problems, though.

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

53

Re: USB recording media recommendation for UFX - pen drives etc.

Correct. We never found the 'dream' stick, and I doubt it will show up soon. Therefore a much bigger (in memory) and cheaper (in cash) hard drive is the way to go.

The front delivers the typical 500 mA, plus a bit headroom for peaks.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: USB recording media recommendation for UFX - pen drives etc.

I think it is worth trying out card readers. While in my earlier tests with older firmware this did not seem to work (no initialization), I just tried again and it works great... I used a simple and cheap (€5) Hama SDHC reader and a Sharkoon Class 4 SDHC card. First test with 8 channels showed no problems, HD usage around 20% or so. Currently running 12 channels at 44k with an 8 gig Sandisk card (also Class 4), no errors, HD around 30%. 10 minutes so far, no issues (only 1.5 gig free on the drive). Test finished after 16 minutes with no errors...
Third test: An inexpensive 16 gig Class 6 card from Photo Porst (german chain of photography retailers). 30 channels at 44 k (all inputs), HD at 46%, no errors, R/W time below 140 ms. 15 gig free, so I'll just let this run. If I don't report back, it means no errors... cool (Update: 1 hour without errors)
HD usage is very constant (45-47 %), which I consider a good sign.

http://img801.imageshack.us/img801/3825/sd2t.jpg

55 (edited by hqmusic 2011-09-02 17:48:40)

Re: USB recording media recommendation for UFX - pen drives etc.

As expected I can report good news about using the following USB HDD with the UFX DURec function

Samsung G2 Portable 640 GB 
HX - MU064DC/GW2 (W = white housing)*
or
HX - MU 064DC/GB2 (B = black housing)

Very handy and very silent model – amazing!
Inside there is a Samsung HM 641 JX 5400 rpm SATA drive (reported by HDD Scan 3.3).
Maybe it is similar to the HM 641 JI  (I=internal, X=external?!) but at least the housing of the G2 Portable makes the HM 641 JX model MUCH quieter! It must definitively be lower than 0,1 Sone (taking Sone measuring procedure of the german c't magazine as reference).

Here are the results of the ... endurance test:
ZERO Errors after 2 and 3 hours and even after more than 6 hours* nonstop recording 34 channels @ 96 kHz Sampling Rate (the maximum)
USB load round 80%
Max (Read/)Write time during recording: running down in iterative sequences from 95ms to 76ms at the beginning of the disk, the further the heads reach the "end" of the disk write time runs down from ~ 150ms to 76ms (these sequences are probably caused by the algorithm filling and emptying the HDD cache buffer).
Twelve points go to RME, douze points à RME!
Ten points go to Samsung, dix point à Samsung.

My tipp: Take the white one, the cable delivered with the white model seems to be of better quality.
And no, I'm in no way related to Samsung company!

* When recording 34 channels @ 96 kHz the numbering of the multichannel WAV files (in this case each 34channel file will become ~ 3'39" long because of the 2GB file size limitations of FAT 32) goes from UFX_08_00 up to UFX_08_99, so after creating 100 files the recorder stops (after 6 h and up to 5 minutes).
So if you plan to record operas or sth. else longer than 6 hours AND using all 34 channels (who will ever do so?), you should stop the machine at an appropriate moment and press record again so that DUREc can count up the next first file number to UFX_09_00 etc... ;-) for the next 6 hours ....

Re: USB recording media recommendation for UFX - pen drives etc.

Anything but zero errors with a current external drive would be a surprise...


Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Re: USB recording media recommendation for UFX - pen drives etc.

I'm surprised that no one seems to have tried the SD card reader idea... HeadScratch

That aside, I found one of the last remaining 2TB external drives at a reasonable price (WD 2TB USB2 drives have gone up to almost 150 Euros these days...). It is an Intenso Memorytower, got it for € 75,- at a local shop (Karstadt). Unlike with other external drives, the disk can easily be removed (it is practically not possible to open some external Seagate or WD drives without destroying the plastic case and losing warranty).

For some reason, the built-in Samsung HD204UI drive is FAT32-formatted.. :-)
I noticed when it complained it could not take a file larger than 4 gig. That prompted me to connect it to the UFX straight away. It is now happily recording 60 channels at 44k, disk usage around 66%, very constant, and no errors, tested for 90 minutes straight.

The case is solid black alumin(i)um, the drive also comes in 1 and 1.5 TB varieties. There is a proper power switch. The Samsung disk is quiet and remains cool. Read rates in the PC are up to 120 MB/s...
The case switches the drive off after about 5 minutes of inactivity. When hitting record, the UFX will patiently wait until it has spun back up and then start recording without showing any errors.


Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Re: USB recording media recommendation for UFX - pen drives etc.

One more data point. Kingston Hypermax 3.0 64GB SSD gets the media error and fails. It's USB 3/2. I tried all the referenced formatting tools. Works on my computer, not on UFX. Based on reading this community, looks like the consensus is to avoid USB 3, at least for SSD.

59

Re: USB recording media recommendation for UFX - pen drives etc.

As I stated earlier I tested several SSDs by using a SATA to USB2 and SATA to USB 3 adapter. They worked without a glitch. Don't know what's wrong with the new Kingston, though.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: USB recording media recommendation for UFX - pen drives etc.

I glean from the HD responses that a 1TB HD at 5400RPM is adequate for any track count @ 96k?

Rich Mays
Sonare Recordings
www.sonarerecordings.com

Re: USB recording media recommendation for UFX - pen drives etc.

Yes, definitely.


Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Re: USB recording media recommendation for UFX - pen drives etc.

Becase of Pro Tools 10 disc error stoppages I want to explore front panel recording as a back up.

I record 22 tracksc@ 24/96 with one UFX as master and one as slave. 

So that would be either 2 flash cards or 2 hard drives. I have on hand 16 & 32 CF of the typecused for pro DSLR cameras.

Thank you for a reliable, stable and value priced product!

Re: USB recording media recommendation for UFX - pen drives etc.

Tomorrow, I will get Hitach's USB3.0 pocket hard drive (2.5inch, 7200rpm). I'll test with my laptop (Thinkpad W520) and UFX (plus Front DUREC), and report back.....fingers crossed!

64 (edited by all 2011-12-22 23:37:46)

Re: USB recording media recommendation for UFX - pen drives etc.

i tried with my CompactFlash. i've got plenty of them.

4 go and 8 go. (15 mb / 30 mb transfer written on it)

with two different card readers.


it does not work at all :

-- on the 4 go, it's ok-> rec : 12 tracks @ 48k, usb 20%, no error, and r/w around 300, nice, but it always stop by itself after a minutes or two. in standalone or with usb totalmix. (one time the file was stopped, as usual, but was a -never seen before- 32khz file !?)

-- the brand new 8 go CF cannot be seen. although i've been recording hundred  hours with.


theses sandisk are usually working. i use them for audio everyday or so.

(i did format32 them, well... ten times)

strange...


edit : well, i succeed in recording 12 tracks @ 44,1 on a ONE giga old CF sandisk. but it stopped by itself @ 5 minutes.... (445 mo)... always stop at 5 minutes !



--

and... finally, with the cheap 5 years old 1go SD card token from the old ixus camera, no problem : usb <20% RW<200, no error, 11 tracks @ 48, till the end of the card, 10 minutes (same thing @ 96, but it was shorter of course)


=> and it's great, the end of space and/or the brutal end of recording does not corrupt the recording ! since, i, -another test- beastially shuted down the device, the file was not lost ! - except for the last ten seconds - bravo RME !

Re: USB recording media recommendation for UFX - pen drives etc.

Masaaki wrote:

Tomorrow, I will get Hitach's USB3.0 pocket hard drive (2.5inch, 7200rpm). I'll test with my laptop (Thinkpad W520) and UFX (plus Front DUREC), and report back.....fingers crossed!

This HITACHI Touro 500GB, USB3.0, 7200rpm pocket HD recorded 30 minutes of 30ch audio WAV files, flawlessly with my W520, and front DUREC of UFX. I even used my laptop without AC/DC adapter (power settings have been tweaked, of course).

Full 30 channels (15 stereo channels by UFX's 12 analog in+AES+ADATx2), 24bit/44.1kHz, ASIO: 256 samples. DAW: Reaper 4, 64bit.

I'm planning to get 1U UPS to back up power supply for UFX and the laptop, for the upcoming location recording.

66

Re: USB recording media recommendation for UFX - pen drives etc.

works : 32 go jump SL lexar stick

14 tracks @ 48K for hours, no error. and the stick flashes in red too, that's perfect ahah...

BUT a lot of error in 96k, anyway i won't use 96.

i may have found my media.

67 (edited by springer 2012-01-30 18:36:31)

Re: USB recording media recommendation for UFX - pen drives etc.

Hi Matthias,
I bought a Hitachi "Life Studio" 320gb external HD and it is reporting "Media/Device error".
The thing comes with a non-removable partition that I believe is the crux of the problem. I have tried to remove it with no luck as it still shows up as 2 partitions on a PC. Any chance there is a workaround or FW change that might help this? It is FAT32 and I am at 351/147 drivers as of 1/30/2012.
If not, definitely put this one on the BAD list so noone else buys it for this purpose.
Thanks.
Patrick

Re: USB recording media recommendation for UFX - pen drives etc.

Hitachi does not provide any way to remove this hidden partition, so the drive is incompatible. The UFX can only use the first partition of the drive.

Regards,
Jeff Petersen
Synthax Inc.

Re: USB recording media recommendation for UFX - pen drives etc.

I assigned the partition as "primary" and formatted - still no go. Wish there had been a warning list before I bought it...

Re: USB recording media recommendation for UFX - pen drives etc.

We can not possibly test every external disk drive out there... I recently bought a 2.5" 1TB Toshiba drive (for othe purposes), which also had some such partition that I could not remove, it would always be restored.


Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Re: USB recording media recommendation for UFX - pen drives etc.

Hello,

I recently found that a brand new Seagate 5400 RPM, 500 GB external drive could not reliably record even 20 channels (@ 96 kHz) using the UFX's USB recording feature.  This was a surprise as the UFX manual and posts here strongly suggested that any 5400 drive was capable of recording all available channels.  I am not sure if this is due to the nature of the drive, or if my drive is defective.  Either way, it does not suit my needs.

I plan to return this drive and pick up another one.  Has anyone successfully recorded all 34 available channels at 96 kHz for some length of time?  If so, I would appreciate you letting me know what type of drive you are using.

Cheers,

David

Re: USB recording media recommendation for UFX - pen drives etc.

Does anyone have suggestions of Hard drives that work with the front panel USB output on my Fireface UFX? I don't want to have to reformat one if I can avoid it. I tried an older WD passport formatted to FAT32 but it wouldn't see it.

73 (edited by Beat Kaufmann 2012-03-06 14:14:24)

Re: USB recording media recommendation for UFX - pen drives etc.

dbpaudio wrote:

...I tried an older WD passport formatted to FAT32 but it wouldn't see it.

I had the same problem with my new! "WD, My Passport, 500GB, USB3, 2.5".
It comes preformated with NTFS for WIN. But even if I reformated it with FAT32 it coulden't be recognized by the UFX.
Then I used Disk Director, a partition program from Acronis.
I deleted the installed partition and installed a new one (directly as Fat32).
After 10 seconds all necessary matters where done by the program.
Now the HDD works perfect.
For a cheap price I got a small, nice and very quiet Harddisk (20 Channels/96kHz, 42-45%, 0 Erros).
BTW: The HDD comes with its own program for reformating itself for MAC OS.

All the best
Beat Kaufmann

Live-Recording
www.musik-produktion-createc.ch

Re: USB recording media recommendation for UFX - pen drives etc.

Beat Kaufman,

I am curious if you are able to record 34 channels at 96 kHz using your drive.  If you don't mind, can you try it for an hour or so and report back?  I have tried several drives this way and have not yet found one that works.  It may be my particular unit, very bad luck, or something else.

Thanks.

75 (edited by Beat Kaufmann 2012-03-11 02:37:33)

Re: USB recording media recommendation for UFX - pen drives etc.

neirbod wrote:

Beat Kaufman,

I am curious if you are able to record 34 channels at 96 kHz using your drive.  If you don't mind, can you try it for an hour or so and report back?  I have tried several drives this way and have not yet found one that works.  It may be my particular unit, very bad luck, or something else.
Thanks.

Hi
Here are the Results:
Task 1
34 Channels / 96kHz (Who ever will use this...)
82-89%,
Errors:  0
Time: 1h

Task 2
34 Channels
96kHz
81-89%, (92% while starting the recording process)
Errors:  1 (while starting the recording process)
Time: 2h

Nevertheless, I'm happy - even if there was obviously 1 error in the second recording session.
I will only use all the inputs for recording onto disk. (20 Channels/96kHz, 42-45%, 0 Errors, 1h = OK for me).
Maybe RME will offer once a White List with all the "carefree-disks"

Best
Beat

Live-Recording
www.musik-produktion-createc.ch

Re: USB recording media recommendation for UFX - pen drives etc.

Beat Kaufmann wrote:

Hi
Here are the Results:
Task 1
34 Channels / 96kHz (Who ever will use this...)
82-89%,
Errors:  0
Time: 1h

Thanks, Beat!  Very good results.  I will try one of those drives.

Cheers,

David

Re: USB recording media recommendation for UFX - pen drives etc.

Hello,

I having problems using 500gb  G-Drive mini. When I plug it in it starts beeping suspiciously and the UFX does not react in any way.  I have a 2gb stick that I formatted exactly the same way and it works fine.   Has anyone run into this?

Thanks,

z

Re: USB recording media recommendation for UFX - pen drives etc.

UPDATE:
I had formatted  the drive via firewire.  I then connected the drive to the computer via usb, formatted it again while connected via usb and it works fine now.

z

Re: USB recording media recommendation for UFX - pen drives etc.

i tried different media now. 64gb stick, 1tb hdd. all worked fine when blank formatted smile happy with it!

Re: USB recording media recommendation for UFX - pen drives etc.

springer wrote:

I assigned the partition as "primary" and formatted - still no go. Wish there had been a warning list before I bought it...

ive not found a hard drive yet that you cannot delete a partition.. Under windows XP you need to go to... control panel/administrative tools/computer management

then under storage icon go to disk management and you will see a list of drives available on your system with all partitions.. From there you can select the physical drive and go ahead and delete patitions and then format as one large partition.. So far that method has worked for every drive i have ever tried it on, im not saying it is foolproof but if you havent tried this yet it is worth a shot.

Re: USB recording media recommendation for UFX - pen drives etc.

As I also pointed put above, I saw the same kind of thing on a Toshiba drive. No way o get rid of it, even with third-party tools.


Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Re: USB recording media recommendation for UFX - pen drives etc.

RME Support wrote:

As I also pointed put above, I saw the same kind of thing on a Toshiba drive. No way o get rid of it, even with third-party tools.


Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

If thats the case then they must be forcing the partition via the drives hardware somehow, if the partition is allocated within software as normal it should be able to be deleted.. If you have tried everything fair enough im not doubting anyone but its just surprising to me to hear there is such trouble..

Re: USB recording media recommendation for UFX - pen drives etc.

Without reading updates on this thread, and because I was buying some outboard SDXC card readers for other purposes, I decided to try an IOGear SDXC/MicroSDXC card reader UPC 881317507693.

Since SDHC and SDXC cards are used in video cameras, they need to stream well and they have the speed class ratings. I tried a Transcend Class 6 16 GB SDHC card with 12 channels running (all analog inputs) at 96/24 and it ran for 45 minutes (duration of test) with no errors and typically 38% utilization. I think I saw it go up to 41% once.

This is very promising as always worry about spinning discs. The card fits vertically in the USB stick and extends maybe 5 mm above the top cover of the UFX.

Re: USB recording media recommendation for UFX - pen drives etc.

Hi. Last week I had get my UFX in Beijing.  And it's sounds good, very Germany:-)

But the little problem about the USB stick still effect me.

Finally I get the answer:-O

1st :Format your Stick or disk in  Fat32 by the any softwar that you like. (I got the Acronis Disk Director)

2nd: :roll Very important!  DeadHorse  Change the TYPE. In "Acronis Disk Director" the option is "Right click on your wanted disk partition"---"Advanced"---"Change Type"---" 0ch  Fat32 LBA"

3rd: Enjoy yourself.  Test the UFX 

PS: I try 15 tracks in 96/24  with a 5 years old laptop hard disk. It's ok. None error

Re: USB recording media recommendation for UFX - pen drives etc.

RME Support wrote:

I think it is worth trying out card readers.

I did: I found a similar Hama adapter in a "Mediaworld" store here in Italy, but it's silkscreened as SDXC compatible. Then I got a cheap "CnMemory" SDXC card from Ebay: 64gb, class10, 54 €. Came as NTFS but I formatted to fat 32 with EASEUS Partition Manager.

Armed all 30 inputs, 48KHz: 3 hours, 0 errors. Usually 37-38 %, <100ms.
*BUT* when starting and/or splitting files, it jumps up to 65-67 %  200ms, which makes me a little nervous.


I'd like to ask: does fat32 block size makes any difference in performance ?

86

Re: USB recording media recommendation for UFX - pen drives etc.

Not at all on a USB stick. And usually not noticable on a real hard drive.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: USB recording media recommendation for UFX - pen drives etc.

I'm a new UFX user, transitioning from MOTU896HD.

Direct USB recording was a major factor in my decision, for safety back-up of live concert recordings.

DURec works like a champ, I'm using Transcend Class 10 32gb SDHC USB "SD/MMC/MicroSD Card Reader/Writer" model number GFR204SD, both sourced from eBay.

30 chanels @ 44.1kHz, no errors, 37-39% HD, R/W 100-350 msec, avg. 105-125 msec, 2 hours.

DURec functions just as advertised, great feature!

Re: USB recording media recommendation for UFX - pen drives etc.

Made a test with a Corsair Survivor 16GB Stick. 32 channels with 44khz working fine. 0 errors after 25min.
With 34 the errors are starting.

Re: USB recording media recommendation for UFX - pen drives etc.

I use the latest (M4) Crucial 128 Gb SSD available thru Amazon for about $102.00. It indicates 22 DUrec Tracks, 50% USB load and no errors for over 4 hours of recording with no modulation and no errors for 110' with modulation (didn't test longer).

But the actual tracks recorded are either 19 or 20-not sure where this defect originates. But I think the Crucial SSDs are fine because I replaced  my MacBook Pro's internal program drive with a Crucial M4 256 Gb . This solved stoppages due to, apparently, slow internal HD PT 10 program operations paging out to the external HD (used to record the PT 10 session-PT 9 was fine recording the same session).

Re: USB recording media recommendation for UFX - pen drives etc.

As previously posted: I recorded 22 tracks at 24/96 (two UFX one as a slave) for up to 4 hours on a test and, for several weeks, live Swing sessions of about 105 minutes. I use the latest (M4) Crucial 96 GB SSD in a small USB box (both available on Amazon). Zero errors and approx 50% USB buss indicated.

I also record 4 "Bonus" Durec tracks on the unused inputs (remaing two line onputs and AES) of the slave UFX for later addition to protools session. For just these 4 tracks most any modern "DSLR Fast" media (USB/SD) of 4/8 Gb seems fine. That leaves still one ADAT input unused.  So it seems that two UFX can DURec up to 30 tracks of 24/96 with sufficient outboard support.

Re: USB recording media recommendation for UFX - pen drives etc.

Correction ...remaining two line INPUTS...

Re: USB recording media recommendation for UFX - pen drives etc.

So I thought the SD card reader I tested above was a bit expensive at a whopping € 5, and decided to try another one that sold for € 2... :-O
This device comes with a short cable attached and it's actually a multicard reader, which will also do Micro SD and Memorystick... Seems SD shows up first, though, the UFX recognizes the medium immediately. I enabled 22 tracks @ 48k, and disk usage is at a very steady 35%-37% with no errors at all.

http://666kb.com/i/c8iimswy4pfhn4fae.jpg

http://666kb.com/i/c8iiok7aw9o4lo4fa.jpg

Re: USB recording media recommendation for UFX - pen drives etc.

Hello UFX users.
I just got a new Sandisc Ultra 32 GB Class 10 micro SD and tried it together wit an hama micro sd-usb card reader. The class 10 Card promisses 10mb/s minimum write speed which should be enough to record all 60 Channels at 44,1. Well, the result is really dissapointing, since the write speed is not constant at all. Recording 10 Tracks at 44,1kHz seems to work, but HD-usage varies between 20% and 90%. If I enable more tracks there are lots of errors... Do You think there is something wrong with the card or with the reader? It seems to be strange, because other people wrote that they recorded 12 Channels even with a class 4 SD...

Re: USB recording media recommendation for UFX - pen drives etc.

Easy to find out - try another card... That said, I never tested Micro SD so far, these may behave differently.

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

95

Re: USB recording media recommendation for UFX - pen drives etc.

MC wrote:

Correct. We never found the 'dream' stick, and I doubt it will show up soon.

Yes, it was not soon, but finally it is there! I was checking from time to time about improvements in USB 3 sticks, and found out about the

SanDisk Cruzer Extreme 64 GB

This stick seems to have the highest write rate ever (more than 160 MByte/s in real-world!), and according to its SMART values it is based on a SSD controller. The higher the write rate, the smaller the pause times during data streaming. So the question was: does that improvement also mean less pause times in USB 2 operation, making it work like a hard drive at the front port of the UFX?

Answer: Yes, it does! I recorded 34 tracks at 96 kHz until the stick was full (nearly two hours). The max write time never exceeded 80 ms, the USB load stayed at 80%, and subsequently there were 0 errors at the end of the recording!

https://archiv.rme-audio.de/download/sandisk_ufx_01.jpg
Note that this is the 64 GB stick, sold in Germany for around 60 Euros. The 32 and 16 GB ones have slower write speeds, but it may well be that due to their special design there will still be no pause (write time) problems. If someone tries out these please report here.

!!! Update 01/14/2013: I just confirmed that the 16 GB version also runs the full channel count without errors. !!!

The stick itself gives a very cheap impression due to being extremely lightweight and made from simple plastic. But it includes a nice spring-supported slide mechanism to hide the connector, so no cap needed. It also has the (often missing) gap for a neck wrist. It doesn't get warm so draws not much current. And its speed...heck, I think I have to order more of these...

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: USB recording media recommendation for UFX - pen drives etc.

Great! Just ordered mine!

FF UFX - ARC - U87Ai - 828Mk3 Hybrid - Digimax FS - Tascam MH8 - MIDI Express 128, 24GB RAM, i7-3630

Re: USB recording media recommendation for UFX - pen drives etc.

Looks great!  I will buy one to try out.

Re: USB recording media recommendation for UFX - pen drives etc.

Works like a charm, now I can use my SSD for other purposes! thanks Matthias!

FF UFX - ARC - U87Ai - 828Mk3 Hybrid - Digimax FS - Tascam MH8 - MIDI Express 128, 24GB RAM, i7-3630

Re: USB recording media recommendation for UFX - pen drives etc.

In a previous post I described recording swing music with the Crucial M4 96GB SSD (Amazon approx $100). I routinely record 22 Durec tracks @ 24/96 (max for this format) for about 100' with no errors and approx a 50% USB indication.

I do this as a backup to my protools session. When protools has crashed the Durec tracks have always been a reliable save. I have also tested longer times (close to the limit of the m4 drive's capacity) for "no modulation" track enabled testing-again with no errors.

I use a second, slave, UFX for mic Pre/converters to max out the 22 tracks of the Master UFX. But there still 6 channels available on the slave- unassigned to protools. So I use garden variety digital camera cards for 2-6 Durec "Bonus Tracks" which can be stripped into the protools 22 track session for a max of 28 tracks @ 24/96 using two UFX.

100

Re: USB recording media recommendation for UFX - pen drives etc.

Post 95 updated with 16 GB info.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME