Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

Hello everyone, new to the forum.
I bought my first RME UFX in 2012, but I’m currently using Babyface Pro FS from Dec 2023. I have a problem with Babyface Pro FS and I need your help:

  • During the mixing process, SELECT button failed suddenly, always on HOLD, which meant that when I scrolled Encoder I only can adjust the L/B balance but not the volume.

I tried switching between CC mode and PC mode, and rebooted Windows 11, but didn't work. I guess there is something wrong with the micro switch.

I have some projects that need to be finished so I can't send Babyface in for repair right away. Is there a way to disable the SELECT button with "ARC & Key Commands" or some other method?

Thank you.
Not many days left for muisc.

1,402 (edited by waedi 2025-04-26 17:52:54)

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

what is the L/B balance ?

Do you mean L/R panning ?

What means HOLD ?
Can you use Totalmix on the computer with the mouse normal ?
Then you should be able to mix and work on your music project...

I would try reflash the firmware. What version is on ?

M1-Sequoia, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue

1,403 (edited by Not many days for music 2025-04-26 18:51:46)

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

waedi wrote:

what is the L/B balance ?

Do you mean L/R panning ?

What means HOLD ?
Can you use Totalmix on the computer with the mouse normal ?
Then you should be able to mix and work on your music project...

I would try reflash the firmware. What version is on ?

Thank you for your reply.

  1. L/ R balance = Output Balance.
    The SELECT button always active = always HOLD down. And right level meters show two bars, lit up until the yellow LEDs always.


  2. Yes, TotalMix can be operated normally with the mouse, but adjusting the volume is not as quick and intuitive as the encoder. So I want to disable or bypass SELECT button.


  3. Driver and Firmware all are the lastest version: 1270 & 321.

I personally think it's a hardware problem with the micro switch, even though I've pressed the SELECT button less than ten times in over a year. By the way, the Encoder fell out of the bag when I  unboxed this new one on the first day I, so I'm honestly not too surprised by the micro switch failure. But it's still not nice to come back from a cup of coffee and find that the button is failed.

1,404 (edited by waedi 2025-04-26 19:10:22)

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

Ah I understand.

Yes I agree the handling of Totalmix with the mouse is less comfortable for you, it is just a workaround in the emergency time.
Has the unit still warranty ? Then I would contact the seller and send in.
Otherwise I would open the unit and take off that button. Under the feet are four screws and the big wheel can be taken off with something like a credit card carefully under the knob.
I do not recomend to open the device, it is just what I would do for myself as I am mechanic.

The Babyface Pro FS is worth for maintenance by the official service partners.

M1-Sequoia, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue

1,405 (edited by Not many days for music 2025-04-27 02:46:00)

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

waedi wrote:

Ah I understand.

Yes I agree the handling of Totalmix with the mouse is less comfortable for you, it is just a workaround in the emergency time.
Has the unit still warranty ? Then I would contact the seller and send in.
Otherwise I would open the unit and take off that button. Under the feet are four screws and the big wheel can be taken off with something like a credit card carefully under the knob.
I do not recomend to open the device, it is just what I would do for myself as I am mechanic.

The Babyface Pro FS is worth for maintenance by the official service partners.

Thanks a lot for suggestions.
If possible, I would like to disable / bypass the SELECT button through TotalMix first.
It is inconvenient to send it back to the dealer for repair in my area, and the dealer is difficult to contact and they will not respond to email technical support.

I am now concerned that the micro switches of other buttons may also have problems soon.

1,406

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

I strongly warn against opening the BF Pro and removing its main board. Internal connection cables can be damaged easily and are very hard to repair if damaged.

Please send the unit in.

The button can not be disabled 'from external', as it is a direct hardware function within the device.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

1,407 (edited by Not many days for music 2025-04-27 11:56:12)

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

MC wrote:

I strongly warn against opening the BF Pro and removing its main board. Internal connection cables can be damaged easily and are very hard to repair if damaged.

Please send the unit in.

The button can not be disabled 'from external', as it is a direct hardware function within the device.

Thank you Mr. MC for your reply.

My device is probably out of warranty since the dealer seems to only offer a one-year warranty, so as long as there are no other hardware failures that affect music production, I will continue to use this device until I complete all my projects, just like my nickname: Not many days left for muisc.

Right meters are showing  two bars LEDs always.
https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhW4anTVu1DS-ZP45nx2OhUPD3Ngx59xKM9jS7f9dVHOBQKXPcLbu_DAv2mmANmTt35XSfmDow5vvXR49LEK74bw6RM98ncSFJumFrVkT01Zazs_o-xFCRN03sXDcs80NWc_lyO5CVU2GeS06yluZwngP54G-4cHAAu9-jP3grj43FXsxalVgh3JCMzhKgn/s800/IMG_20250426_214532.jpg

1,408

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

MC wrote:

Please send the unit in.

M1-Sequoia, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue

1,409

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

That photo looks like the Select button is lower positioned  than when pressed, as if the PCB is broken inside...

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

1,410 (edited by Not many days for music 2025-04-27 12:19:08)

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

MC wrote:

That photo looks like the Select button is lower positioned  than when pressed, as if the PCB is broken inside...

Uh...that doesn't sound like good news.

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

I have some suggestion regarding efficient usage of DSP computing power. The Babyface Pro FS can calculate seven equalizers on the input channels and six on the output channels plus reverb and echo. Makes 15 effects in total. However the vast majority does not need all those effects since not all inputs or outputs are connected or they do not require the equalizer.

So I suggest a firmware and software upgrade that works with a DSP load model. Every equalizer takes 5% DSP load, reverb and echo 15%. So if a compressor/limiter effect would take 60% DSP load it would still fit as long as you don't need more than one equalizer.

Some claimed it's only about USB power limitations that there are not full effects. But there is an external 12 V input. RME could enable more DSP power if the 12 V is connected.

1,412 (edited by Kubrak 2025-04-27 20:23:45)

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

RME cannot enable more DSP power, if BF run on external power.... The thing is that because of USB power delivery limit, there is no DSP chip, and so not enought DSP computing power....

Reverb and echo is not processed in BF, it is processed on computer.... You are right that theoretically, DSP could be selectively, but practically, it is probably hard to implement...

I would like to have compressor or RoomEQ in Babyface.... But it is IMHO no go on current HW. Hopefully in the next HW version of BF.

FF UCX II, Digiface USB, Babyface Pro FS

1,413 (edited by ramses 2025-04-27 23:34:55)

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

BBF Pro has no DSP inside. Thus no full implementation of FX (USB2 power not sufficient for that).

Therefore the situation is like Kubrak highlighted already:
- EQ calculated by the FPGA
- Reverb and Echo processed on PC
- No dynamic effects (compressor, limiter, noise gate)

RoomEQ and Crossfeed would have needed this separate DSP chip.

But even if a device has a DSP inside, it is no guarantee, that there are enough resources to implement RoomEQ and Crossfeed. This needed a review of RME. The outcome was, that for UCX II, 802 FS, UFX II/III, UFX+ it was possible.

But for the HDSPe MADI FX you need a never version of the card, otherwise also impossible.

We should be glad, that many good devices could get it as a firmware upgrade and this free of charge.

BR Ramses - UFX III, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, M-1620 Pro D, 12Mic, XTC, RayDAT, Win10, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

Kubrak wrote:

RME cannot enable more DSP power, […] there is no DSP chip

What leads you to that assumption? It is not true. At least according to RME: "The FPGA-based DSP mixer adds a flexible, 3-band parametric equalizer to all inputs and outputs. Reverb and delay FX are also available." Remember "FPGA-based DSP" is like "bread baked with wheat flour" so a very normal DSP. Assuming it had no DSP that means the EQ would be analogue. And the device heavily overpriced.

Kubrak wrote:

Reverb and echo is not processed in BF, it is processed on computer....

Same here, source? If it would be processed in the computer it would be even easier to provide the same effects as on the more expensive interfaces. If it would be calculated on the computer I would see a increase in latency when enabling the FX. But I have a constant latency of 5.7 ms measured with RTL utility from Oblique Audio. This is excellent.

Kubrak wrote:

I would like to have compressor or RoomEQ in Babyface....

Indeed!

There is one more argument for my suggestion: The Babyface Pro FS can handle 192 kHz. For many (my) applications 44 kHz is sufficient. That is 24% the computing power the DSP can obivously handle. So with a smarter firmware one could assign the saved computing power to a more sophisticated effect.

1,415 (edited by ramses 2025-04-28 18:40:54)

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

bedeutendunwiderstehlich wrote:
Kubrak wrote:

RME cannot enable more DSP power, […] there is no DSP chip

1- What leads you to that assumption? It is not true. At least according to RME: "The FPGA-based DSP mixer adds a flexible, 3-band parametric equalizer to all inputs and outputs. Reverb and delay FX are also available." Remember "FPGA-based DSP" is like "bread baked with wheat flour" so a very normal DSP. Assuming it had no DSP that means the EQ would be analogue.

2- And the device heavily overpriced.

Kubrak wrote:

Reverb and echo is not processed in BF, it is processed on computer....

3- Same here, source? If it would be processed in the computer it would be even easier to provide the same effects as on the more expensive interfaces. If it would be calculated on the computer I would see a increase in latency when enabling the FX. But I have a constant latency of 5.7 ms measured with RTL utility from Oblique Audio. This is excellent.

Kubrak wrote:

I would like to have compressor or RoomEQ in Babyface....

Indeed!

4- There is one more argument for my suggestion: The Babyface Pro FS can handle 192 kHz. For many (my) applications 44 kHz is sufficient. That is 24% the computing power the DSP can obivously handle. So with a smarter firmware one could assign the saved computing power to a more sophisticated effect.

To 1 + 3, if you were more regular in this forum, then you would know it.

To 2, please have a look below ++)

To 4. The BBF Pro is missing a DSP for FX and RoomEQ/Crossfeed.
The power budget of USB2 won't allow this.

See my posting, it explained already everything to you, what you need to know
https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.ph … 42#p236542

++) Sorry, but you don't seem very familiar with RME products.

All RME devices are equipped with FPGAs which are flashable, so all aspects of potential errors on the device can be fully fixed. There is also no third-party communication chips that could bottleneck performance. The FPGA even does the USB communication. The drivers are outstanding: extremely stable with ultra-low latency.

Moreover, there's a DSP mixer with excellent features and a level of maturity that's practically unmatched in this class. The best DSP mixer on the market. RME has been consistently using TotalMix [FX] across all their products for over 25 years.

The manuals? Exceptionally well-structured and of a quality that's hard to find these days. Plus, RME includes a whole range of highly useful free software tools, like DIGICheck and the newer DIGICheck NG. Standalone audio analysis tools of this quality would easily cost around €400 on the open market. Not to forget TotalMix Remote for LAN-based control of TotalMix FX.

RME also offers an unusually long driver and firmware update service — for some products, continuing for over 20 years now.

Other highlights include:different reference levels, femtosecond quartz clocks, extremely fast converters.

A support team and user forum that actually understands the technical details and can provide real help.

I suspect you're comparing RME to typical consumer-grade products, which don't offer even a fraction of this functionality and whose product lifecycles usually max out at around five years.

In contrast to that, a well-maintained, not-too-old used RME interface can often still sell for around 70-80% of its current street price.

And now look at the price history of geizhals, prices went down again, no reason to complain:

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/bw00u7nvqmxtgf42wpiux/2025-04-28-RME-Babyface-Pro-FS-Prices-Geizhals.de.jpg?rlkey=koady120s5wj00ljqvzjm6k6k&st=j5yl15fa&dl=1

BR Ramses - UFX III, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, M-1620 Pro D, 12Mic, XTC, RayDAT, Win10, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4

1,416 (edited by Kubrak 2025-04-28 17:16:55)

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

bedeutendunwiderstehlich wrote:
Kubrak wrote:

I would like to have compressor or RoomEQ in Babyface....

Indeed!

There is one more argument for my suggestion: The Babyface Pro FS can handle 192 kHz. For many (my) applications 44 kHz is sufficient. That is 24% the computing power the DSP can obivously handle. So with a smarter firmware one could assign the saved computing power to a more sophisticated effect.

Theoretically, on paper, it might be possible. Practically... Who knows? Maybe, it is not doable, because it would not fit into FPGA, or RAM is needed, that Babyface does not have, or just too complicated to implement and maintain (so costly). Prone to bugs... Inpractical - one has certain setup that runs on 44/48k, but would not if sample rate rises....

Many possible reasons not to go that way.

FF UCX II, Digiface USB, Babyface Pro FS

1,417 (edited by punter 2025-04-28 17:34:10)

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

bedeutendunwiderstehlich... wrote
the device heavily overpriced

Babyface Pro FS is worth much more than its price list. The software - TotalMix - alone is worth the list price. Babyface Pro FS is very reliable, works without fault, compatible with a wide range of devices, is versatile in terms of inputs & outputs.

Perhaps not everyone can afford it, but there are plenty devices with this characteristic.

In fact, I am puzzled, how can RME maintain the same price since 2019 (possibly earlier).

Babyface Pro FS ranks #11 in USB audio interfaces at Thomann. In my opinion, it speaks well about the price / feature / quality ratio. There must be some reason behind it.

1,418

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

And the price came down a lot.
2 years ago it was over 800, now it's 670.- CHF
To me the price seems to be fair.

And the support (forum, email, conference video call etc. is for free ! )

M1-Sequoia, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

bedeutendunwiderstehlich wrote:

What leads you to that assumption? It is not true. At least according to RME: "The FPGA-based DSP mixer adds a flexible, 3-band parametric equalizer to all inputs and outputs. Reverb and delay FX are also available."

Don't confuse DSP as a function (digital signal processing) with DSP as a device (digital signal processor). In that sense, FPGA can perform some signal processing, but the Babyface Pro lacks the dedicated digital signal processor chip found in higher-level RME interfaces. That's what Kubrak had in mind and that's how most of us understand it here; it's rather impolite to pick on words and make strawman arguments.

Remember "FPGA-based DSP" is like "bread baked with wheat flour" so a very normal DSP. Assuming it had no DSP that means the EQ would be analogue.

Such speculations are not based on actual facts of the matter.

And the device heavily overpriced.

This could be a valid opinion provided there were other interfaces with at least the same performance, feature set (or even with a full-featured DSP chip that you demand) and support level at lower price. But there are none.

Fireface UCX II + ARC USB > ADI-2 Pro FS R BE > Neumann KH 750 DSP + MA 1 > KH 120 A

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

My idea was to place a public feature request and get some other users to support this. I did not ask a question.

Instead I get lots of replies from other users that try to educate me why this is not possible. On one hand it's nice to see RME as a community of fans. It seems that those fans prefer to pay for new hardware with a more powerful DSP to getting a firmware update that would use the current DSP's power in a smarter way.

I am not an audio expert but I have developed DSP applications in other domains so you don't have to explain me if an FPGA is a DSP or not.

I did not write that the Babyface is overpriced. Please read carefully. But given how rigorous the reactions are the price of the unit might be an issue.