Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

I had to mute the hardware inputs in Totalmix smile

352 (edited by jabb91 2017-03-17 04:15:41)

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

Hello,

I'm having trouble with the noise floor on my Babyface Pro. I'm running a SM57 either straight into the unit or in combination with a CloudLifter CL-1. In either configuration I'm not able to get very clean gain for quieter vocals. The additional 20dB boost from the cloudlifter results in a nearly identical noise floor.

Here is a sample recording of the SM57 straight into the BFP w/ 50 dB gain + digitally boosted 15dB and the microphone with the cloudlifter at 30 dB + 15dB digitally boosted.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/tjp56mhlvjgc7 … e.wav?dl=0

I've tried a few different XLR cables, but I get the same result. I don't think dynamic mics are capable of generating white noise, but I don't have any other ones to test with.

I was under the impression that the Babyface Pro would have a pretty low noise floor throughout most of its gain range, but I'm quite disappointed with the performance of this particular unit.

I'd greatly appreciate any input into this situation.

Thank you,

Justin

353 (edited by george.soong 2017-03-21 11:06:17)

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

george.soong wrote:

I don't know if this has been asked before, but I do have a few questions:

1. Is Babyface Pro driver compatible with Windows WASAPI?  Will it run in exclusive mode?
2. If yes for the above, will it run 24bit/192KHz in full duplex mode under WASAPI?

MC wrote:

1. Yes and Yes.
2. Yes.

Well, it seems not able to run in full duplex mode in any way.  The signals are not stable.  Cannot even get a flat response using RMAA.  Unless I can figure out what the problem is, I have some expensive junk on my hands.

Are there any ideas what I need to look for?  I tried on a MacBook pro bootcamp running Win7 pro 64 bit, and also another Asus notebook running WinXP 32 bit.

354

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

My answers were correct. If that doesn't work you have to look at the computer used, as it seems not able to work correctly at 192 kHz with Wasapi/WDM. BTW, Windows XP does not support Wasapi (it came with Vista). BTW 2, the Babyface Pro driver runs flawlessly even at 384 kHz Wasapi, as proven by the ADI-2 Pro (same driver).

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

Just a comment/question about TotalMix and the BP. I brought it with me for a recording today and noticed that my mics (Line CM3s, which are relatively quiet) were very noisy, and putting out lower signal than usual. I thought maybe the pad had been left on since I was using it at home for line level, but I was using a different computer and TotalMix did not say the pad was engaged. What I ought to have done was select and unselect it, which ultimately solved the problem (mics are now back to their usual quiet selves), but only after the recording was over and all the audio was saturated with noise––hard to think of everything when artists are staring you down. Does the state of the pad not get stored in the device memory, and therefore communicated upon startup to whatever host computer's TotalMix is connected to the device?

Thanks!

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

MC wrote:

My answers were correct. If that doesn't work you have to look at the computer used, as it seems not able to work correctly at 192 kHz with Wasapi/WDM. BTW, Windows XP does not support Wasapi (it came with Vista). BTW 2, the Babyface Pro driver runs flawlessly even at 384 kHz Wasapi, as proven by the ADI-2 Pro (same driver).

Whether it runs full duplex or not is a hardware design.  My current tests show that left and right channels to not operate in sync on the same clock cycle.  The phase shift indicates interleave between channels.

357

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

TotalMix overwrites any state with its own. Changing the unit to a different computer must have left it in a not competely reset state. I wouldn't wonder if an older driver and TM FX version is on that computer, as we had improved that PAD behavior/issue over several versions.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

george.soong wrote:
MC wrote:

My answers were correct. If that doesn't work you have to look at the computer used, as it seems not able to work correctly at 192 kHz with Wasapi/WDM. BTW, Windows XP does not support Wasapi (it came with Vista). BTW 2, the Babyface Pro driver runs flawlessly even at 384 kHz Wasapi, as proven by the ADI-2 Pro (same driver).

Whether it runs full duplex or not is a hardware design.  My current tests show that left and right channels to not operate in sync on the same clock cycle.  The phase shift indicates interleave between channels.

Doing a loop back measurement using MLS with the left channel as input reference and the right channel as the channel under measurement, the result is never flat as with other cards I have tested, shifting the timing between the channels in software cannot flatten the phase either although it does improve the phase situation.  So there seems not only a recording interleaved issue, but also possibly some filter effecting the result in a way that the channels do not match exactly.

359

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

It seems as long as you do not provide meaningful screenshots we have no chance to find out what is wrong with your configuration. I just did WASAPI Exclusive loopback tests at 192 kHz / 24 Bit 4 Byte mode with zero errors and sample accuracy between the channels.

Did you set the BF Pro to 192 kHz directly within its Settings dialog? Did you reset TotalMix FX?

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

360 (edited by george.soong 2017-03-26 18:31:24)

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

MC wrote:

It seems as long as you do not provide meaningful screenshots we have no chance to find out what is wrong with your configuration. I just did WASAPI Exclusive loopback tests at 192 kHz / 24 Bit 4 Byte mode with zero errors and sample accuracy between the channels.

Did you set the BF Pro to 192 kHz directly within its Settings dialog? Did you reset TotalMix FX?

I seem to be getting results closer to ideal after playing around with TotalMix FX.  But I am getting noise in the frequency response plots. I also get zero errors when I adjust the buffer size in the Fireface USB settings

How do I reset TotalMix FX? Does this rest the Baybyface Pro to a clean reset state?

Yes the BF Pro is set to 192KHz in the Fireface USB settings dialog.

The latest version of my test software seems to have some issues with WASAPI since there is no output.  Currently I am using an earlier version which uses WDM/MME for the tests.

This is my first time using TotalMix FX, still trying to figure out what each control does.  I do set the PAD for the loop back testing so the scale is the same from output to input.

361

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

TM FX / Options / Reset Mix / Total Reset.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

362 (edited by george.soong 2017-03-27 03:42:36)

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

How can I upload screenshots?  The usual pic button just gives me this the img/img quotes.

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

Are there any advantages to using a higher current power supply with the Babyface Pro?

I have a quite a few 12 V power supplies that should work with the Babyface Pro from 1 A up to 5.5 A. I am currently using a 12 V 1.5 A power supply without any issues.

Are there any advantages to going with a higher current power supply? (Maybe when using 48 V Phantom Power)?

Along the same lines, is the Babyface Pro sensitive to the quality of the power supply? Does using a "noisy" power supply increase the noise floor of the Babyface Pro or effect it in other ways?

When using the Babyface Pro on a PC/MAC, are there any advantages to using a power supply outside of having under-powered or buggy USB ports? If I use a power supply at the same time, will the Babyface Pro be powered by the power supply, USB or both?

Lastly, does the power supply colour the sound of the XLR input preamps of the of the Babyface Pro?


(This thread mentions both 500 mA and 1 A as the minimum power amounts for an external power supply. The manual states 1 A, but list the actual current load at 12 V external power at 240 mA (2.9 Watts) with a max load of 4.3 Watts which should be a max of 356 mA at 12 V. This does seem to me that a higher current power supply does not necessarily make a differences, but on the flip side, some of the higher current power supplies are probably built better.)

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

In short: no advantages, no changes to signal quality or "sound" at all....

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

Finally figured out it was a problem with my test software.  I discovered this when trying to generate a demo of what I expect using a different sound card.  When using an older version of test software, the results were perfect.  I apologize for the confusion I caused.

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

Thanks for the quick answer!

RME Support wrote:

In short: no advantages, no changes to signal quality or "sound" at all....

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

Hey!

I recently picked up a Babyface Pro (love this little guy) and have been wondering the same thing. Ideally I would like to have another two outputs. These outs would function as:

- an additional mix for artists via a headphone amp
- two mono mixes for foldback for live band recording
- stereo output to feed second set of monitors during mixing

How do I make use of the optical out?
Thanks!

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

You buy an adat ADDA converter. (this will give you 4 stereo/8mono ins and outs).

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
Babyface pro fs, HDSP9652+ADI-8AE, HDSP9632

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

Thanks vinark! What are you using for this purpose?
I've found the Aphex 141B but 800 AUD is waaaaay over budget.

I'm also aware that the optical out can be switched from ADAT to SPDIF. Perhaps this is more within my budget?

Do you know of a DAC that also works as a headphone amp?

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

Cheapest is the behringer ADA8200. Spdif limits you to one stereo pair, if that is enough you can get very cheap headphone amps with spdif on ebay.

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
Babyface pro fs, HDSP9652+ADI-8AE, HDSP9632

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

Just got the Babyface Pro - its great reminds me of having a lot of the stuff I had on my RME Fireface 400 in a really compact unit.  Some compromises had to have been made, ie would prefer TRS outs for monitors, coaxial SPDIF etc.  But for its size nothing beats it.  I have to try it with my monitors later (Yamaha HS5's) hoping it works fine with them.

372 (edited by AN 2017-04-01 03:10:29)

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

Hello people!

Happy customer here! Bought my RME BFP a month ago and love it very much! Thanks to the RME company!

Anybody can help me with my question:

My previous sound interface was Digidesign Mbox2. When I was tracking my guitars the knob MIX on that interface was extremely helpful allowing me to blend the playback tracks with the analog tracks that I was recording. I'm pretty much sure it is possible to do the same thing through TotalMixFX due its deep flaxibility, but I'm still figuring out RME software.
Could someone please explain me what should I do in the scenario I've mentioned above?

Also, is there any ways to register my Babyface Pro? Couldn't find any info about that.

Thank you all in advance!

373

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

Set TotalMix to Submix View (upper right corner). Click on the hardware output in the third row where your signal is send out, then raise the input fader in the first row where your guitar is coming in.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

New RME BF Pro user.

Im embarrassed to ask BUT

I am having trouble running/executing the install file "rmeinstaller.exe", it just will not open/run when for me when i double click.
Windows 10 Pro x64

-I believe i have already set the BF Pro to "PC" Mode.
-Baby face Pro (123456789) Showing up under "Other devices" in Device Manager.

Apologies if this is in wrong thread.

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

Please try downloading the file again with another browser. Which driver did you download?

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

Ive tried IE, Chrome, Firefox. File just refuses to run. (driver_usb_win_1098) 29,875 KB
Thank you for super fast reply

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

Thank you to Daniel Fuchs for the tech support.

My solution: (which should of been my 1st) full format and fresh Install.

phase909 wrote:

New RME BF Pro user.

Im embarrassed to ask BUT

I am having trouble running/executing the install file "rmeinstaller.exe", it just will not open/run when for me when i double click.
Windows 10 Pro x64

-I believe i have already set the BF Pro to "PC" Mode.
-Baby face Pro (123456789) Showing up under "Other devices" in Device Manager.

Apologies if this is in wrong thread.

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

I wonder if someone can give me an advice about the use of RME Babyface Pro with a Ribbon mic. I wonder if RME pre can handle Ribbon mics with low noise signal ratio instead a dedicated external mic preamp. Any news about it will be wellcome.

379 (edited by olradium 2017-04-23 19:03:59)

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

Hello,

I need some help please.

I have my RME BFP for a while and since I have got it I have an issue.
When I play music from the browser or from the winamp player, it keeps muting itself for no reason. After a while it has sound back again. Most often it happens when I change the track in winamp or switch to different video in FB for example. Also between the application installed.

Re-installed the drivers few times, running the latest version of firmware and drivers as well. Also the latest update of Win 10.
Tried to switch to different sample rates, but it is all the same.
RME is my playback default device of course. When I run Windows troubleshooter, it says 'Problems found - Generic Audio Driver'.
Tried to use different players and browsers, switched to other USB ports, but nothing changes.

It's really annoying. I have never had this problem with my old sound card. Any help would be appreciated.

Thank you in advance.

Best Regards.

380 (edited by jerjabs 2017-04-30 00:56:02)

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

Hi, I currently have the original Babyface and enjoy it although I've had issues with passive pickups into the instrument input.  While recording a guitar using a Duncan JB and other pickups with less output than the JB, I get frequent clipping.  I am thinking about upgrading to the Babyface Pro but before I do I was wondering if this issue has been fixed in the new unit.  While reading other user's posts having the same issues with input clipping, it seems as if some of the answers are on the lines of, "Well, you must be doing something wrong." Hopefully this is a non issue with the new unit as rolling back on my guitars volume knob to get it in a non clipping signal, seems to neuter the signal.  Thanks!!!!!!!!!

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

............................................................... hello?

382 (edited by pianopictures 2017-05-07 10:03:52)

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

Hi,

Digital/analog input/output relationship question. From my understanding the output control on the Babyface Pro (analog outs) is in the digital domain, done by controlling the TotalMix output levels. From what I know it is not the best idea to control the outputs digitally because you loose the bit depth doing this; it's better to keep the digital output at max and control your monitors level via an analog controller.

What is not clear to me is how the Mic stage implemented. From my experience normally you control the mic levels in analog domain making them reasonable hot and them capture the signal digitally. My main question is how it works in Babyface Pro, is it capturing the mics at some fixed analog sensitivity level, with a fixed headroom, and then boost it digitally? What are the "digitally controlled microphone preamps" mentioned in the manual?

Or does it mean digitally controlled analog stage? Input, output?

Thank you.

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

It is acceptable (on RME equipment) to control the output level over a limited range (say effective attenuation of about 15dB-20dB); but it is better to keep the output level 'normal' and implement attenuation passively between the output and the following input if there is a significant mismatch in sensitivities (eg., driving Genelec active monitors which need about -20dBV to -30dBV for normal listening levels, using about 15=-20 dB passive variable attenuator box is more convenient, I find).

RME uses digitally gain controlled analog mic pre-amps; adjust the gain for correct digital level (observable in TotalMix).with the desired margin of 'headroom'.  Relax and enjoy!

De gustibus - et sonus - non est disputandum

384 (edited by pianopictures 2017-05-08 05:47:04)

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

Thank you very much for the answer.

Would be great if they have the same way digitally controlled analog output stage.

Any other RME hardware have an analog output control? ADI-2 Pro maybe?

385

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

Download the ADI-2 Pro manual and read chapter 34.20.

https://archiv.rme-audio.de/download/adi2pro_e.pdf

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

Quote from the ADI-2 Pro manual:

In summary:

RME's digital volume control in 42 bit TotalMix technology avoids all the disadvantages of analog level control via pots, is easy to use, offers reproducible settings, and the highest sound quality

Very interesting, thank you very much. Unfortunately I'm not able to understand 100% of the technical information provided, at least from the first reading. So the same can be applied to all RME products including Babyface Pro, not only ADI-2 Pro?

387

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

Yes. The DAC output noise is the only thing you should look for. As that is usually inaudible/below the hearing threshold, there is nothing lost at all compared to a 'analog' volume control, when digitally shifting the audio signal into the noise floor. If you want to test that record the attenuated signal, for example at -48 dB (stealing 8 bit of 'resolution'), and normalize the recording. You won't hear any problem like roughness, loss of stereo or tonal balance or whatsoever. You just have a little background noise present. Which you can't hear under normal conditions.

Still analog reference levels should match for several reasons. As the BF Pro only outputs quite a high level, passive attenuators at the XLR outputs can be useful, see here:

https://www.forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=25399

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

Thank you very much.

It is hard for me to argue, but that test suggestion looks very odd to me. The fact that I possibly won't hear the clear difference on my consumer grade equipment does not mean there is no degradation in the signal, to me it is quite obvious that it actually is. If I apply not -48 dB attenuation but, say, -60, -80dB or more of digital attenuation, then there will be quite significant loss in audio quality clearly audible on any equipment. I'm speaking strictly about your test suggestion. However I can imagine that Total Mix use some other technology to solve this issue.

Thank you very much for mentioning the attenuators, I did not think about using them, and they could definitely be super effective in a practical situation. However this actual suggestion contradicts the previous statements. If there is no issue with the signal degradation, then, I'm pretty much sure it's possible to make some kind of a bus in the TotalMix so to fed one attenuated signal strip into another, all virtually digital. So no need for the attenuators in such case.

389

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

Why you come up with 'consumer grade equipment'? We are talking RME here. I nowhere stated that all digital volume controls on this planet work perfectly.

And I clearly explained why attenuators make sense for several reasons, justifying them even when you use RME equipment.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

Your routing/mixing settings from Ttotalmix are saved in the Babyface. Even when Totalmix isn't active, the settings still are.

So check your routing/settings and disable what you don't want/need and save to the BF...

MB Pro - 2 X FireFace 400, FF800 & DigiFace USB
ADAT gear: Korg, Behri, Fostex, Alesis...

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

I just bought the babyface and I love it so far. I use it to play my digital music in some genelec monitors. My music is encoded in all sorts of formats from mp3 to 24/192 recordings. How am I sure that it is playing back in the native format? eg- the 24/96 play at that bitrate and the 24/192 at that rate, etc. I use foobar2000 on Windows 10 64bit. Thanks in advance. I did RTFM but didn't find an answer.

392

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

You see the current sample rate in the BF Pro Settings dialog.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

MC wrote:

You see the current sample rate in the BF Pro Settings dialog.

Does that mean I have to manually set the sample rate for each different resolution? 44,96,192 ? or is setting it for 192 and leaving it alone the way to go?

394

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

If you use the ASIO output with Foobar then the sample rate will switch automatically.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

In the settings> clock mode>sample rate, what value do I enter?

396

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

None. Your ASIO app (Foobar) will control that.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

jimtao wrote:

In the settings> clock mode>sample rate, what value do I enter?


Nevermind. I added the ASIO component and it changed the rate automagically. Thanks for the great support!

398 (edited by jforkner 2017-05-16 17:33:03)

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

Is anyone else having to constantly re-install drivers? At least 2 times a week my BFP isn't recognized and I have to reinstall drivers and sometimes two or three times to get it to work.  Very frustrating. Any advise would be welcomed.

Windows 10 1607 Build 14393.1198

399

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

No known issues, are you using Mac or Windows? Which driver version and which OS version? Is the hardware still detected by the computer when this happens?

Regards,
Jeff Petersen
Synthax Inc.

400 (edited by jforkner 2017-05-16 17:34:08)

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

Just updated original post with OS info. Using the most recent drivers from RME website. Hardware goes MIA. Device is NOT in CC mode either.