51 (edited by ramses 2016-07-17 14:11:52)

Re: pcie firewire card windows 10

Least cost would be to insert 2nd SSD or older Harddisk and make a parallel installation of Windows 7 and cross-check.
Issue could be Windows 10 based.
But issues could also be caused by mainboard design / chipset / bios.

For Socket 1151 also workstation variants exist.

Look and filter out on your own what you think you require:
https://www.computerbase.de/preisvergle … 7_1#xf_top

Then cross check with a dealer, whether you can keep CPU and RAM with another board.

I would try to get M.2, Thunderbolt and USB3.1 in, so that you can expand later as you want.
And all those boards have Intel Server Chipsets .. C232, C236 ...
Server components usually have more stability.

The Supermicro Board looks interesting
https://www.computerbase.de/preisvergle … mp;hloc=de

Review: http://www.servethehome.com/supermicro- … rd-review/

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

52 (edited by tzoglhs 2016-07-18 13:31:26)

Re: pcie firewire card windows 10

Ramses, in my search to find a solution, I've reistalled the firmware for my FF400 and I discovered that it is very old, from 2010 and it supports only until windows 8.
This might be the answer, why your UFX works with windows 10 and my FF400 doesn't.
Despite that, do you think it might be a Cubase problem?
It does the same everytime I tested it.
It plays back only the first track I record, even though the waveform is visible on the second track too.
If I record a third track, sometimes it plays back normaly.

53 (edited by ramses 2016-07-18 13:37:46)

Re: pcie firewire card windows 10

Maybe you forgot in Cubase to give the 2nd track also an output channel ?
Per default this is Analog 1+2 for each of your tracks, but if you changed ASIO drivers this mapping can go away.
So check for each of your tracks in the project whether it points to the proper output channel.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: pcie firewire card windows 10

No, no, everything is ok in that department.
I know what I'm doing.
When I say it does not play back properly, I mean that I don't hear what I've recorded, only white noises and glitches.

Re: pcie firewire card windows 10

Is perhaps the unit faulty ?

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: pcie firewire card windows 10

By "unit" you mean the FF400?
How can it be faulty, if it works fine with my older computer?
Perhaps RME's windows 10 drivers are faulty for my FF400.
Can anybody from RME comment on that?
No answer yet, to the email I've send them, explaining my issues thoroughly.

57 (edited by ramses 2016-07-19 07:31:58)

Re: pcie firewire card windows 10

You are right, sorry the thread is quite long.
I think the parallel installation of Windows 7 on the same HW would be still interesting.
Because then it would work with the board and the chipset, then I would guess its more driver related.
Either Chipset under Win10 or RME.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: pcie firewire card windows 10

Well I have news.
I tested my setup with a tascam usb audio interface and I have exactly the same problem.
I installed Sonar Platinum and tried it.
Zero problems with either the FF400 and the tascam!
I installed Cubase 8.5 in a laptop with windows 7 and recorded in an internal SSD drive.
Zero problems there too.
I recorded in my SSD programs drive.
Zero problems.
I opened the problematic(wich didn't play in Cubase and only white noise and glitches were audible) audio file with Windows media player and it played back normally.
I saved the project and I opened it again.
Now the first track had the same problems and not the second.

Conclusion until now:
Something is wrong with Cubase 8.5 and windows 10 handling audio recordings and hard disk drives, or some conflict between Cubase and my system.

FF400=OK!
EXSYS EX 16415=OK!
PC=OK!
Windows 10 with Cubase 8.5=?

Go figure...

59 (edited by ramses 2016-07-20 06:14:36)

Re: pcie firewire card windows 10

Congrats for finding this out.

Conclusion is as I tell everybody usually ... go Windows 7.

On the other hand .. Cubase 8.5.20 worked for me with Windows 10. Maybe it depends on the project itself and what you did inside of the project. My latest projects were all done with Cubase 8.5 under Windows. After the upgrade installation to Windows 10 on other disk I only opened the project, changed interfaces, but did not really work inside Cubase with tracks etc.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: pcie firewire card windows 10

I have absolutely zero issues with Windows 10 and Cubase 8.5.20 and haven't since I installed Windows 10, last July, a full year ago.  I also have zero issues running my Fireface 802 in Windows 10, in firewire mode, through Cubase 8.5.20.  Windows 10 is far from being the black sheep it seems to be made out to be.

Re: pcie firewire card windows 10

News:
I recorded 3 audio tracks and 3 vsti's with plugins inserts and sends on my SSD programs disk and I had zero problems.
Then I cut/paste the project folder to one of my WD HDD's and I have the same problems again.
I emptied this WD HDD and quick formated it, I then recorded again on this disk and again the same problems are there.
One of the tracks doesn't play back, though the waveform is visible.
I opened the audio files folder of this project and played back this "problematic" recording with windows media player and it played back normally.

Re: pcie firewire card windows 10

How old is that WD drive?  It is either not up to par for realtime recording/playback, on its way out health wise, or the way it is configured for either caching, power configuration etc, is off and hindering its performance.  The fact that the faster SSD works fine, is saying a lot here.  The culprit appears to be that drive, as it acts up when the project is copied to it, yet everything else stays the same.  OS, DAW, drivers etc.

Re: pcie firewire card windows 10

I have three of them, they are brand new WD black caviar 7200 drives.
I tested them thoroughly with a software application and they seem to work very well.

Re: pcie firewire card windows 10

Is there some special configuration needed, for Cubase to use them properly? Because let's not forget that Sonar Platinum wich I've tested has no problem recording fine on them.

65 (edited by ramses 2016-07-21 06:44:10)

Re: pcie firewire card windows 10

What happens if you delete your Cubase profile (rename it "*.old") and if you start with default Cubase settings.
And which 8.5 version do you have ? The latest patchlevel 8.5.20 ?

Do you use only 64bit plugins or are you using jBridge ?

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: pcie firewire card windows 10

you don't have to rename your preference anymore.  Cubase has the option since version 7, to temporarily start it up in safe mode/fresh preferences for testing purposes.  After you exit, it goes back to loading full preferences as before, on next start up.

https://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtopic.php?p=190932

67 (edited by tzoglhs 2016-07-25 08:27:01)

Re: pcie firewire card windows 10

I have the latest version Cubase 8.5.2
I've tried that already with help from a Steinberg distributor.
It didn't do anything.
I also use 32bit plugins, but I didn't open them in the project.No jbridge.
My PC is now in the service of the shop I bought it from, they checked that the hard drives are fine and now they've put on a different motherboard(a little more expensive and with a newer chipset) in case something was wrong with the other one I had.
Unfortunately it's not possible to change to another type of motherboard, because it doesn't support my I7 6700K.
Only Z170 type is compatible.
As long as everything works fine with recording on the SSD and also on an external USB hard drive, I guess it is not a software issue.

Re: pcie firewire card windows 10

What is the new and the old mainboard exactly ?

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: pcie firewire card windows 10

The old one was this :
Gigabyte Motherboard Z170X Gaming 3 (Z170/1151/DDR4)

and the new one is this :
Gigabyte Motherboard Z170X Gaming 5 (Z170/1151/DDR4)

Re: pcie firewire card windows 10

With the new motherboard the problem is still the same!!!
I don't know what else to do.
They said they tested the hard drives and they work fine.
So what happens now?
I have the new pc for two months now and I can't use it for music.

Re: pcie firewire card windows 10

Taking nearly the same motherboard like before was maybe not the wisest decision.
Because shall this be a mainboard design issue, nobody can really tell you whether the later board has this fixed.
If this shall be really a Chipset problem in conjunction with Windows 10, then you have now the same chipset
and problem like before.
I think the best you can do is, to do the parallel installation of Windows 7, to finally find out whether its potentially a Windows 10 problem. If Windows 7 also sucks, then I would eventually think about, whether this is really chipset problem and use another socket / chipset.
Installing windows 10 on another disk is maybe €40 for a disk or you use an old one plus the time for installation and testing.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: pcie firewire card windows 10

The new motherboard has a new chipset.
It's not the same.
The type is the same, but that cannot be changed, only if I downgrade to an older system proccesor, ram, etc...
Is there a chance, the hard drives show up OK in the tests, but are not OK in reality?
Windows 7 is the only other option I've not tried yet.
Could there be a conflict with some other hardware, like my graphics card?
I have to exclude something in the end.
Hardware first.

Re: pcie firewire card windows 10

those motherboards are nearly idential, as ramses stated.  Same chipset, model number and ram type.  Only change is the gaming 3 vs gaming 5 stating, which may be superficial tweaks, that have nothing to do with solving your current problem.

Re: pcie firewire card windows 10

I don't understand why a new motherboard chipset can not support simple all time classic hardware like hard drives and to be more specific WD black caviar, wich are supposed to be one of the fastest and best overall.
This doesn't seem logical to me.
Afterall my problem is very strange.
2 tracks recorded, the second not playing back normally, only white noises and glitches, but only if I record on the WD's.
No problem with the SSD, or an external USB drive.
What has that to do with the chipset of the motherboard?
Aren't all motherboards build for using hard drives anyway?
I never had this problem in my recording life!!!

I'll say it again : I was informed that Z170 and H170(inferior) are the only types supporting I7 6700 1151.

Re: pcie firewire card windows 10

https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/com … _a_design/

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: pcie firewire card windows 10

OK I've read it.
They say that their systems were under heavy stress playing the latest games.
Are 2 audio tracks with no plugins "heavy stress"????
Unbelievable!
Why does the problem disappear when I record on the SSD, or on an external drive???
Doesn't the Z170 chipset count there?

77 (edited by ramses 2016-07-25 19:25:03)

Re: pcie firewire card windows 10

Mainly I wanted to show you that shit can happen... the root cause for your board I don't know.
Finding out root causes for this can become time consuming.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: pcie firewire card windows 10

I feel something is up with the drives.  I know you said they were tested and came up clean, but perhaps they still aren't up to snuff for multi-track recording.  The fact that the same motherboard and chipset works fine with the SSD drive and an external drive, has me believe the motherboard and chipset are fine.  If absolutely no hard drives recorded, I would look elsewhere, but the fact that you do have working hard drives without issue and drives that do show issue, shows me the drives are either not up to snuff, or perhaps there is some sort of compatibility issue with those particular drives on those ports.  I would look into different drives, from different manufacturers, different model, different size etc and find something that works.  Keep the SSD for your boot drive and apps, but find more suitable drives for recording too.

79 (edited by ramses 2016-07-25 19:26:21)

Re: pcie firewire card windows 10

+1 Thats a good idea indeed.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: pcie firewire card windows 10

tzoglhs wrote:

OK I've read it.
They say that their systems were under heavy stress playing the latest games.
Are 2 audio tracks with no plugins "heavy stress"????
Unbelievable!
Why does the problem disappear when I record on the SSD, or on an external drive???
Doesn't the Z170 chipset count there?

First try this http://www.win-raid.com/t2f23-Intel-RST … -WHQL.html Read it all and start with the one he advices for your chipset. If it doesn't fix it it is either the sata cable (first suspect) or the HD itself. I use 3 blacks without problems, but for my sample libraries.
Good luck!!!!

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
Babyface pro fs, HDSP9652+ADI-8AE, HDSP9632

81 (edited by tzoglhs 2016-07-26 11:49:28)

Re: pcie firewire card windows 10

I'm not a pc expert and I don't understand all these informations very well.
The two of my WD black drives were also intended as sample libraries and that they accomplish, but not any different or faster then my old Seagate Baracuda drives in my older computer.In fact I think that kontakt libraries are loading slower.
I just tested recording in all three of them, to check if only one had the problem.
They all do the same exact thing.
I will check the SATA cable.
Thanks!

Re: pcie firewire card windows 10

I remember something I had too with my black drives. Try connecting them one by one. One of my black drives caused all kind of issues in combo with the others. Not solo on another system.

If you not already do that, http://www.gigabyte.us/products/product … D=0#driver   install the sata/raid driver.

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
Babyface pro fs, HDSP9652+ADI-8AE, HDSP9632

Re: pcie firewire card windows 10

AND WE HAVE A WINNER LADIES AND GENTLEMEN!!!
The 3 WD black caviars are problematic.
Thank you all for your support and help!
You are awesome!
I hope that there won't be any other surprises.

Re: pcie firewire card windows 10

tzoglhs wrote:

AND WE HAVE A WINNER LADIES AND GENTLEMEN!!!
The 3 WD black caviars are problematic.
Thank you all for your support and help!
You are awesome!
I hope that there won't be any other surprises.

Any more details? You mean 3 together?

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
Babyface pro fs, HDSP9652+ADI-8AE, HDSP9632

Re: pcie firewire card windows 10

We tried disconnecting the two and recording in the one left.
Same problem.
We put on a new WD blue.
No problem.
We put on a new WD black caviar.
No problem.
Three new black caviars.
No problem.
All three black old ones were defective.
Unbelievable but true!

Not the motherboard's, not Cubase's, not Windows 10's, not the FF400's fault.
The issue was in the WD hard drives.

I feel tired, but relieved at last.

86 (edited by ramses 2016-07-27 07:02:43)

Re: pcie firewire card windows 10

Ok its good to hear that i.e. the chipset is not the root cause.
That would have been bad for people buying new PCs ...

Could you please post the exact
- Model
- Firmware version
- Serial number
- Capacity
- Was AAM enabled (automatic acoustic management) ? TAB AAM () Enable + TAB Info () Automatec Acoustic Management

of your three black caviars
- which didnt work
- which worked

This could help to identify, whether there was i.e. a defective series in a certain serial number range or it could also be a bad working firmware on the drive. Or maybe the Automatic Acoustic Management could be a reason. Should be disabled by default for best performance but who knows.

You can get this info i.e. with a trial version of HD Tune Pro. See at the bottom of the Info Tab.
http://www.hdtune.com/

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: pcie firewire card windows 10

Well I should be so lucky...
New problem.
Every now and then(and that is often) I have hickups and stutters, when I'm playing back a recorded track, when I'm recording or even when play without recording.
I've experimented with buffer sizes, sample rates, audio guard settings, audio priority and everything else in my device setup in Cubase.
Nothing.
I uninstalled the RME drivers and installed them again.
Nothing.
The problem continues.
It's not the same as before and now I know it's not the hard drives, because it does that even with nothing recorded.

Re: pcie firewire card windows 10

Does that mean, we're back in the chipset department and the firewire pcie card?
Could it be the I7 6700K?
RAM?
Windows 10?

Re: pcie firewire card windows 10

And now it happens almost constantly even outside Cubase, when I'm using Guitar rig in standalone mode.
Unplayable with any buffer settings.
That wasn't happening before, at least not so much and so constantly!
It stutters the whole time.
I tried changing pcie slots with no better results.

Re: pcie firewire card windows 10

How about the parallel installation of Windows 7 for reference ?

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: pcie firewire card windows 10

But someone here and you said that you didn't have any problems with windows 10, working with firewire cards.
Why should I bother.
I don't have a copy of windows 7 right now and I don't have a spare hard drive to do the parallel installation.

Re: pcie firewire card windows 10

To see if it is firewire/rme problem. Try onboard audio with asio4all driver. Don't change the latency on the asio4all driver, it is buggy that way, but it gives an indication if the mobo can work for audio.

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
Babyface pro fs, HDSP9652+ADI-8AE, HDSP9632

Re: pcie firewire card windows 10

tzoglhs wrote:

But someone here and you said that you didn't have any problems with windows 10, working with firewire cards.
Why should I bother.
I don't have a copy of windows 7 right now and I don't have a spare hard drive to do the parallel installation.

But Windows 10 runs with my HW with my Chipset ....
You shall find out whether your HW has a chance to run, as Windows 7 was for a long time the de facto standard for recording systems.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: pcie firewire card windows 10

Is there a chance, the RAM speed could be responsible for my audio stutters and dropouts?
The technician who changed my hard drives told me that he managed to clock the RAM speed to 2400 and I've read somewhere that  my system can handle only 2133.

Re: pcie firewire card windows 10

I don't believe one word of that statement. AFAIK it's impossible.

Mind you, I've never tried it, as it seems a dodgy idea to start with. Something overclockers do. And if it works, it could very well be the source of your problems, as it would generate occasional bit errors.

Easy to find out, tho. Undo it in the BIOS or UEFI.

MB Pro - 2 X FireFace 400, FF800 & DigiFace USB
ADAT gear: Korg, Behri, Fostex, Alesis...

Re: pcie firewire card windows 10

Overclocking in itself isn't a problem, it is just being sure the parts are stable at said clocks. Stock speed parts can cause just as many problems as overclocking parts, if they too aren't stable. I have my parts overclocked from day 1. My 3.4ghz CPU is very happily running at 4.5ghz and has for 5 years now, just be sure the parts can reliably run at those speeds. You can certainly try and put your RAM back to stock speeds and check, but most likely the ram is fine, as they are designed to work above their rated spec out of the box.

Is this a 100% clean install of Windows 10 by chance?  No upgrade and made on that exact motherboard?  If not, a clean install may be in order.

Re: pcie firewire card windows 10

You tested and you OC'd components.

In this case, the tech overclocked the bus. Harder to test and if it fails, a lot more expensive and time consuming to replace.

I also don't see much advantage for audio. Maybe if you're running a lot of plugins?

MB Pro - 2 X FireFace 400, FF800 & DigiFace USB
ADAT gear: Korg, Behri, Fostex, Alesis...

Re: pcie firewire card windows 10

My pc is completely new(2 months old) and windows 10 are clean installed there from the start.
My RAM speed is 2400, but I've read that skylake I7 6700K 4GHZ(that's my proccesor) doesn't support speeds above 2133 and that it is preffered to underclock, to match the system.

Re: pcie firewire card windows 10

tzoglhs wrote:

My pc is completely new(2 months old) and windows 10 are clean installed there from the start.
My RAM speed is 2400, but I've read that skylake I7 6700K 4GHZ(that's my proccesor) doesn't support speeds above 2133 and that it is preffered to underclock, to match the system.

only 2 months old, but you did switch motherboards from gamer 3, to gamer 5, likely no changes, but technically a change and the fact that you have done so much back and forth and mucking around, it is likely that in only 2 months, the OS has become quite dirty in terms of how it is setup and running.  If you feel your new Hard drives are now reliable and ready to go, I would simply format and start again, eliminating any possible variables that have occurred with all the testing you have done, trying to fix the problems you have encountered.  Try and clock the ram back down while you are at it and see how you fare.

Re: pcie firewire card windows 10

Hi everybody!
I think I've finally solved the problem.
I've exchanged the SSD and put in windows 7.
Everything works fine.
Out of curiosity, a friend of mine, brought another small SSD and we put in windows 10.
Everything works fine also.
So the conclusion is : Four out of four hard drives were deffective!