1 (edited by Chris T 2016-06-29 17:35:42)

Topic: High-End Computer crashes with Madiface USB

Hi,

I desperately need help with my new Studio Setup. I bought the Madiface USB last year and used it with my old laptop. It ran fine for a couple of months. Then I bought this high-end PC to replace the laptop in the studio setup. From day one the system was crashing on a daily basis. I then analysed the minidump files with "who crashed" and this tool reports in 90% of the times that Madiface USB driver is causing the crash. I tried everything I can think of without success. RME support can't help, PC support blames the sound card.

THe system is:

KENKO® S-590

silentmaxx® PC-Gehäuse für lüfterlose Kühlung Silentmaxx ST-860 XL Tower

Lautloses, silentmaxx® PC-Netzteil  FANLESS II 500/600 Watt Netzteil 80plus Platinum 0dB(A)!

Mainboard Intel Skylake 1151 Gigabyte GA-Z170X-UD5 TH

Intel CPU Skylake intel Core i7-6700K 4x 4,0 - 4,2GHz

lautloses 0db(A) Kühlsystem ihres silentmaxx PC  FHPCS - absolute passive Kühlung • absolute Stille [ + inklusive ]

Arbeitsspeicher DDR4 - Quad Channel 32GB DDR4-2133/2800 G.Skill Ripjaws V 2x 16GB

SSD M.2 SSD 512GB Samsung SM951

DVD/Blu-Ray-Laufwerk 16fach Blu-Ray Brenner+DVD Writer LG BH16NS

Fronttürdämmung für DVD/Blu-Ray  Fronttürdämmung [ + inklusive ]

Grafikkarte PC - iGPU HD530

Soundkarte onBoard HD-Sound 6/8Kanal

Microsoft Windows Windows 10 Pro 64Bit inkl. Installation +DVD


I will add the crash log analysis later. One other strange thing is that after restart going into the daw, the sound is broken. I have to reload the ASIO driver by software or restart the DAW so it runs clean. If I let it run latest after two days the system crashed. Sometimes the DAW (reaper) freezes after long time. If I kill it then, the crash is likely to happen short after. Sometimes the message in the crashlog is Memory Management related. This might be correlated to the type of crash but I can't tell for sure (arbitrary / DAW freeze related).

Any ideas yet?

Thanks a lot in advance for your support. I lost a band recording a while ago since the crash happened before I could save the project. This is not acceptable for a system that costs 3200 Euro just for desktop and digital audio interface!

Best regards,

Chris

Re: High-End Computer crashes with Madiface USB

Hi,

here is the crash log analysis:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Welcome to WhoCrashed (HOME EDITION) v 5.51
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This program checks for drivers which have been crashing your computer. If your computer has displayed a blue (or black) screen of death, suddenly rebooted or shut down then this program will help you find the root cause and possibly a solution.

Whenever a computer suddenly reboots without displaying any notice or blue (or black) screen of death, the first thing that is often thought about is a hardware failure. In reality, on Windows most crashes are caused by malfunctioning device drivers and kernel modules. In case of a kernel error, many computers do not show a blue screen unless they are configured for this. Instead these systems suddenly reboot without any notice.

This program will analyze your crash dumps with the single click of a button. It will tell you what drivers are likely to be responsible for crashing your computer. It will report a conclusion which offers suggestions on how to proceed in any situation while the analysis report will display internet links which will help you further troubleshoot any detected problems.

To obtain technical support visit www.resplendence.com/support

Click here to check if you have the latest version or if an update is available.

Just click the Analyze button for a comprehensible report ...



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Click here for more information on the professional edition.
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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
System Information (local)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Computer name: DESKTOP-D436CEK
Windows version: Windows 10 , 10.0, build: 10586
Windows dir: C:\Windows
Hardware: Z170X-UD5 TH, Gigabyte Technology Co., Ltd., Z170X-UD5 TH-CF
CPU: GenuineIntel Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-6700K CPU @ 4.00GHz Intel586, level: 6
8 logical processors, active mask: 255
RAM: 34234347520 bytes total




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Crash Dump Analysis
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Crash dump directory: C:\Windows\Minidump

Crash dumps are enabled on your computer.

On Mon 27.06.2016 15:59:43 GMT your computer crashed
crash dump file: C:\Windows\Minidump\062716-3765-01.dmp
This was probably caused by the following module: ntkrnlmp.exe (nt!KeBugCheckEx+0x0)
Bugcheck code: 0x1A (0x61948, 0x125EC8598, 0x1, 0x125EC8598)
Error: MEMORY_MANAGEMENT
Bug check description: This indicates that a severe memory management error occurred.
This might be a case of memory corruption. More often memory corruption happens because of software errors in buggy drivers, not because of faulty RAM modules.
The crash took place in the Windows kernel. Possibly this problem is caused by another driver that cannot be identified at this time.



On Mon 27.06.2016 15:59:43 GMT your computer crashed
crash dump file: C:\Windows\memory.dmp
This was probably caused by the following module: ntkrnlmp.exe (nt!KeBugCheckEx+0x0)
Bugcheck code: 0x1A (0x61948, 0x125EC8598, 0x1, 0x125EC8598)
Error: MEMORY_MANAGEMENT
Bug check description: This indicates that a severe memory management error occurred.
This might be a case of memory corruption. More often memory corruption happens because of software errors in buggy drivers, not because of faulty RAM modules.
The crash took place in the Windows kernel. Possibly this problem is caused by another driver that cannot be identified at this time.



On Sun 26.06.2016 02:19:04 GMT your computer crashed
crash dump file: C:\Windows\Minidump\062616-3781-01.dmp
This was probably caused by the following module: madiface_usb_64.sys (madiface_usb_64+0x63AD)
Bugcheck code: 0x1E (0xFFFFFFFFC0000005, 0xFFFFF802E6CCFA9D, 0x0, 0xFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF)
Error: KMODE_EXCEPTION_NOT_HANDLED
file path: C:\Windows\system32\drivers\madiface_usb_64.sys
product: Windows (R) Win 7 DDK driver
company: RME
description: MADIface USB Audio Driver (WDM)
Bug check description: This indicates that a kernel-mode program generated an exception which the error handler did not catch.
This appears to be a typical software driver bug and is not likely to be caused by a hardware problem.
A third party driver was identified as the probable root cause of this system error. It is suggested you look for an update for the following driver: madiface_usb_64.sys (MADIface USB Audio Driver (WDM), RME).
Google query: RME KMODE_EXCEPTION_NOT_HANDLED



On Sat 25.06.2016 20:23:29 GMT your computer crashed
crash dump file: C:\Windows\Minidump\062516-3593-01.dmp
This was probably caused by the following module: madiface_usb_64.sys (madiface_usb_64+0x63AD)
Bugcheck code: 0x1E (0xFFFFFFFFC0000005, 0xFFFFF80158AC7A9D, 0x0, 0xFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF)
Error: KMODE_EXCEPTION_NOT_HANDLED
file path: C:\Windows\system32\drivers\madiface_usb_64.sys
product: Windows (R) Win 7 DDK driver
company: RME
description: MADIface USB Audio Driver (WDM)
Bug check description: This indicates that a kernel-mode program generated an exception which the error handler did not catch.
This appears to be a typical software driver bug and is not likely to be caused by a hardware problem.
A third party driver was identified as the probable root cause of this system error. It is suggested you look for an update for the following driver: madiface_usb_64.sys (MADIface USB Audio Driver (WDM), RME).
Google query: RME KMODE_EXCEPTION_NOT_HANDLED



On Sat 25.06.2016 15:56:12 GMT your computer crashed
crash dump file: C:\Windows\Minidump\062516-3531-01.dmp
This was probably caused by the following module: madiface_usb_64.sys (madiface_usb_64+0x63AD)
Bugcheck code: 0x1E (0xFFFFFFFFC0000005, 0xFFFFF802F653AA9D, 0x0, 0xFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF)
Error: KMODE_EXCEPTION_NOT_HANDLED
file path: C:\Windows\system32\drivers\madiface_usb_64.sys
product: Windows (R) Win 7 DDK driver
company: RME
description: MADIface USB Audio Driver (WDM)
Bug check description: This indicates that a kernel-mode program generated an exception which the error handler did not catch.
This appears to be a typical software driver bug and is not likely to be caused by a hardware problem.
A third party driver was identified as the probable root cause of this system error. It is suggested you look for an update for the following driver: madiface_usb_64.sys (MADIface USB Audio Driver (WDM), RME).
Google query: RME KMODE_EXCEPTION_NOT_HANDLED



On Sat 25.06.2016 02:28:09 GMT your computer crashed
crash dump file: C:\Windows\Minidump\062516-4921-01.dmp
This was probably caused by the following module: madiface_usb_64.sys (madiface_usb_64+0x63AD)
Bugcheck code: 0xA (0x3, 0x2, 0x0, 0xFFFFF8023E2DAA9D)
Error: IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL
file path: C:\Windows\system32\drivers\madiface_usb_64.sys
product: Windows (R) Win 7 DDK driver
company: RME
description: MADIface USB Audio Driver (WDM)
Bug check description: This indicates that Microsoft Windows or a kernel-mode driver accessed paged memory at DISPATCH_LEVEL or above.
This appears to be a typical software driver bug and is not likely to be caused by a hardware problem.
A third party driver was identified as the probable root cause of this system error. It is suggested you look for an update for the following driver: madiface_usb_64.sys (MADIface USB Audio Driver (WDM), RME).
Google query: RME IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL



On Sun 19.06.2016 11:17:00 GMT your computer crashed
crash dump file: C:\Windows\Minidump\061916-4203-01.dmp
This was probably caused by the following module: ntkrnlmp.exe (nt!KeBugCheckEx+0x0)
Bugcheck code: 0x1A (0x61948, 0xED90A598, 0x1, 0xED90A598)
Error: MEMORY_MANAGEMENT
Bug check description: This indicates that a severe memory management error occurred.
This might be a case of memory corruption. More often memory corruption happens because of software errors in buggy drivers, not because of faulty RAM modules.
The crash took place in the Windows kernel. Possibly this problem is caused by another driver that cannot be identified at this time.



On Wed 15.06.2016 22:36:14 GMT your computer crashed
crash dump file: C:\Windows\Minidump\061616-3640-01.dmp
This was probably caused by the following module: ntkrnlmp.exe (nt!KeBugCheckEx+0x0)
Bugcheck code: 0x1A (0x61948, 0x19CBD7598, 0x1, 0x19CBD7598)
Error: MEMORY_MANAGEMENT
Bug check description: This indicates that a severe memory management error occurred.
This might be a case of memory corruption. More often memory corruption happens because of software errors in buggy drivers, not because of faulty RAM modules.
The crash took place in the Windows kernel. Possibly this problem is caused by another driver that cannot be identified at this time.



On Tue 14.06.2016 10:44:36 GMT your computer crashed
crash dump file: C:\Windows\Minidump\061416-3781-01.dmp
This was probably caused by the following module: madiface_usb_64.sys (madiface_usb_64+0x63AD)
Bugcheck code: 0xA (0xEE66, 0x2, 0x0, 0xFFFFF80234EE2A8D)
Error: IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL
file path: C:\Windows\system32\drivers\madiface_usb_64.sys
product: Windows (R) Win 7 DDK driver
company: RME
description: MADIface USB Audio Driver (WDM)
Bug check description: This indicates that Microsoft Windows or a kernel-mode driver accessed paged memory at DISPATCH_LEVEL or above.
This appears to be a typical software driver bug and is not likely to be caused by a hardware problem.
A third party driver was identified as the probable root cause of this system error. It is suggested you look for an update for the following driver: madiface_usb_64.sys (MADIface USB Audio Driver (WDM), RME).
Google query: RME IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL



On Tue 14.06.2016 06:13:20 GMT your computer crashed
crash dump file: C:\Windows\Minidump\061416-3546-01.dmp
This was probably caused by the following module: madiface_usb_64.sys (madiface_usb_64+0x63AD)
Bugcheck code: 0x1E (0xFFFFFFFFC0000005, 0xFFFFF801178DAA8D, 0x0, 0xFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF)
Error: KMODE_EXCEPTION_NOT_HANDLED
file path: C:\Windows\system32\drivers\madiface_usb_64.sys
product: Windows (R) Win 7 DDK driver
company: RME
description: MADIface USB Audio Driver (WDM)
Bug check description: This indicates that a kernel-mode program generated an exception which the error handler did not catch.
This appears to be a typical software driver bug and is not likely to be caused by a hardware problem.
A third party driver was identified as the probable root cause of this system error. It is suggested you look for an update for the following driver: madiface_usb_64.sys (MADIface USB Audio Driver (WDM), RME).
Google query: RME KMODE_EXCEPTION_NOT_HANDLED





--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Conclusion
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

51 crash dumps have been found and analyzed. Only 10 are included in this report. A third party driver has been identified to be causing system crashes on your computer. It is strongly suggested that you check for updates for these drivers on their company websites. Click on the links below to search with Google for updates for these drivers:

madiface_usb_64.sys (MADIface USB Audio Driver (WDM), RME)

If no updates for these drivers are available, try searching with Google on the names of these drivers in combination with the errors that have been reported for these drivers. Include the brand and model name of your computer as well in the query. This often yields interesting results from discussions on the web by users who have been experiencing similar problems.


Read the topic general suggestions for troubleshooting system crashes for more information.

Note that it's not always possible to state with certainty whether a reported driver is responsible for crashing your system or that the root cause is in another module. Nonetheless it's suggested you look for updates for the products that these drivers belong to and regularly visit Windows update or enable automatic updates for Windows. In case a piece of malfunctioning hardware is causing trouble, a search with Google on the bug check errors together with the model name and brand of your computer may help you investigate this further.

3

Re: High-End Computer crashes with Madiface USB

The most important information is missing:

- Which driver and firmware version is used?

- Did you try a different USB 3 port? This mobo might have many, but only a few might be connected directly to the USB 3 of the Intel chipset. And these are the ones to be used.

- You tried a different (shorter) USB 3 cable?

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

4 (edited by Chris T 2016-06-30 07:30:29)

Re: High-End Computer crashes with Madiface USB

Of corse latest driver and firmware.
Driver version 0.9540
Hardware Revision 22

I only used the supplied USB2 cable but also in different USB2 and USB3 ports. Not all of them probably. There also is a thunderbold to USB3 adapter cable. Would that be an option as well?

BTW, that broken sound also happens after coming back from standby. Same cure: reload the  ASIO driver within the DAW...

Re: High-End Computer crashes with Madiface USB

Did you check and adjust energy options? USB power saving options? Maybe also available in BIOS?
Standby: I never use standby with my audio machine.

6

Re: High-End Computer crashes with Madiface USB

Oh, I misread your post as MADIface XT, sorry. Of course the MF USB needs a perfectly working USB port, as it uses near the maximum of audio channels that is possible via USB 2. Please try other ports. The manual includes a chapter which shows how to find out that you really use different ports.

Otherwise no such errors are known or have ever been reported, sorry.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

7 (edited by Chris T 2016-06-30 13:35:38)

Re: High-End Computer crashes with Madiface USB

Hi guys,

I did check the energy options in the bios but don't recall the settings. Will provide them later, but I know that the USB power stays on in standby and as well in shut down state which I thought might be strange.

I will also check if the Madiface has an individual USB port as described in the manual. Again, might it make sense to try to connect the Madiface to the thunderbolt/USB3.1 hub with an adequate adapter cable?

Since the crashes can take hours to days to occur and the on thing that is quickly reproducible is the "broken sound" after cold start, restart or wake up from standby, should I try to get this straight first? It might also solve both problems at the same time. To add some details, the WDM sound (windows system sound) is not affected, only the sound running through the ASIO driver, like from the DAW. I try to make a recording of that sound, that might help to identify the problem. It's kind of like a digital distortion. Almost like some bits were permuted. If there is no sound there is no noise. If I send a sound, it sounds like overlayed with the noise from frying a steak smile This happens within Reaper as well as with
Komplete Kontrol in standalone mode, so most likely not the cause of the DAW but rather the ASIO driver not initialised correctly. Are there any settings in the driver I should try?

BTW, once initialized correctly until the next crash that could be on the next day, the whole system works perfectly at super low latency and very low CPU load with a bunch of large plugins operating.

Thanks for your continuous support.

Chris

8 (edited by Chris T 2016-07-01 09:52:13)

Re: High-End Computer crashes with Madiface USB

So now an even worse scenario happened. As I mentioned that memory management related crash seems to be when closing the DAW is causing the crash. The same this time just that I had edited the project and was asked if I want to save before closing. I did, so the crash appeared while still saving I assume, with the result that the project cannot be opened anymore due to a "parsing error". So everything in this project is lost, not only the recordings since last save. This is not the first time this happened but it is severe now since I am working with professionals. I really need a solution. Figuring out how this can be prevented could never lead to success or take forever. I rather would like to try if a PCIe Madi card or the new madiface pro runs stable, then I would swap gear and be happy. Is there a way we can arrange a test RME? I leave my computer on over the weekend with the madiface unplugged. If there is no crash until monday, we go from there...

Thank you for your help!

Chris

9 (edited by Chris T 2016-07-06 15:58:41)

Re: High-End Computer crashes with Madiface USB

Hi,

no crash over the weekend with RME MADIFACE USB disconnected. Can you please offer me an individual solution RME? I would like to test the HDSPe MADI card as a replacement option.

Thanks
Chris

10 (edited by Chris T 2016-07-06 16:15:12)

Re: High-End Computer crashes with Madiface USB

Error: KMODE_EXCEPTION_NOT_HANDLED
file path: C:\Windows\system32\drivers\madiface_usb_64.sys
product: Windows (R) Win 7 DDK driver
company: RME
description: MADIface USB Audio Driver (WDM)

Hi,

I had overlooked that it says WDM in the error message. Maybe it is related to the WDM settings of the driver or the fact that I use Madiface as the output for the windows sound. In fact, I am using stereo output for WDM where I had 8 outs set in my laptop. Maybe I disable the WDM sound first in the driver and in the system and then see how it works.

Re: High-End Computer crashes with Madiface USB

Maybe I missed it, but what DAW software and Windows version are we talking about here?

As far as I understand the manual all the USB 2/3 ports on the back panel are directly connected to the Intel chipset. Only the internal headers (except one) are connected via an internal hub. So this shouldn't be the problem here.

Re: High-End Computer crashes with Madiface USB

@Timor
Windows10 pro 64, DAW is Reaper, same problems with Komplete Kontrol Standalone,  I also installed Cubase lately and starting to test with that as well.

here are some interesting new results:
... ok the WDM settings didn't help, but I am testing the Madiface connected to a PCIe -> USB3 card right now and the first impression is quite positive. The startup behavior is fine now. No distortion on first start of the DAW after reboot. ASIO works every time I use it. Even after standby (one difference is that usb power is off on stand-by). If the crashes are gone I can tell only after some days, but my plan was to remove the reproducible errors first and hope that this solves the crashing issue. Unfortunately, now I have had audio glitches twice in one evening. Most likely related to the PCIe card, since this is new. Maybe another card is doing better, but anyway this is just a workaround. This looks now like the onboard USB does not get along with the Madiface. I checked the usb connections in the device manager as well, and there were no 2 usb controllers, so I couln't connect the madiface alone to a dedicated controller. There is only one USB3 controller if I got this right. I am really excited now if this prevents the crashes, but still I want to get the mf running on the real usb port, so I don't have glitches instead of crashes. But I think I am getting closer to the problem this way. What can be done with the usb configuration (maybe in the bios)? How should the power configuration be etc..

Thanks
Chris

Re: High-End Computer crashes with Madiface USB

The USB 2.0 ports run all together with the USB 3.0 port under the USB3 controller in device manager. The USB 3.1 controller is the Thunderbolt controller and should be separate.

But like I wrote, according to the manual only the inner headers are connected to a hub, which could be another way to solve the problem. Try to specifically connect your tower's USB ports to the headers behind the hub (just try different headers, only one is hub-free). The hub may translate/adapt away the issues just as much as hubs can cause issues.

Based on what you report yet I suspect the BIOS/EFI or maybe power constrains to be the culprit. You could try to use a USB split cable to power the Madiface over two USB ports.

You could try to switch EHCI handoff in BIOS, but that's a shot in the dark. Also make sure that spread spectrum is turned off (albeit you can try the other way around for another shot).

Re: High-End Computer crashes with Madiface USB

Did you find out about the USB energy settings (windows)?

Re: High-End Computer crashes with Madiface USB

...strange

I updated the driver for the pcie card via internet and then I had the same startup issues with broken sound after reboot as before with the onboard usb. Unistalled the driver and installed from cd, startup fine again. Maybe related to some default settings in the driver? I am starting to look into the usb settings and internal connections as Timor suggests...

Thanks for the support !!!

16 (edited by Chris T 2016-07-07 20:16:19)

Re: High-End Computer crashes with Madiface USB

@Ulrich

there is something like selective USB engergy save activated! Is that it? I disable it..
Will check in the bios next. What am I looking for there?

17 (edited by Chris T 2016-07-08 09:04:15)

Re: High-End Computer crashes with Madiface USB

... ok, I enabled xHCI Hand-off, since it was disabled. That and the "selective USB energy save option" (translated from german) in windows that I disabled before now leads to a clean startup behavior with mf connected to the on-board usb. At least 2 restarts it was fine. Very interesting. I finally might be getting there. Will check restarts and standby and the hopefully not have a crash again..

Good hints guys!!! I will keep you posted..


P.S.: on an english windows 7 the corresponding setting is called "USB selective suspend setting" in Power Options -> Edit Plan Settings ->Change advanced power settings -> USB settings. If it was this setting or the xHCI Hand-off in the bios or both that made a difference I still have to check, but first I want to see if the crashes are gone.

Re: High-End Computer crashes with Madiface USB

no crash yet smile

Re: High-End Computer crashes with Madiface USB

still no crash, but I just figured that I had done some additional change, which was that I had changed the number of wdm devices to 0 in the mf driver settings. Yesterday I changed that back to stereo output and now after standby with a youtube stream running in the background, the ASIO stream was distorted again, while youtube sounded fine. I was on standby in the meantime. Restarting the daw didn't help but then I changed the setting number wdm devices back to 0 and ASIO started fine. No restart required. I will leave it like that for now and keep observating...

20 (edited by Chris T 2016-07-10 20:19:12)

Re: High-End Computer crashes with Madiface USB

crash :-(

On Sun 10.07.2016 16:03:19 GMT your computer crashed
crash dump file: C:\Windows\Minidump\071016-3437-01.dmp
This was probably caused by the following module: madiface_usb_64.sys (madiface_usb_64+0x63AD)
Bugcheck code: 0xBE (0xFFFFF801A2EC6AD0, 0x5223121, 0xFFFFF8036E5D20B0, 0xA)
Error: ATTEMPTED_WRITE_TO_READONLY_MEMORY
file path: C:\Windows\system32\drivers\madiface_usb_64.sys
product: Windows (R) Win 7 DDK driver
company: RME
description: MADIface USB Audio Driver (WDM)
Bug check description: This is issued if a driver attempts to write to a read-only memory segment.
This appears to be a typical software driver bug and is not likely to be caused by a hardware problem.
A third party driver was identified as the probable root cause of this system error. It is suggested you look for an update for the following driver: madiface_usb_64.sys (MADIface USB Audio Driver (WDM), RME).
Google query: RME ATTEMPTED_WRITE_TO_READONLY_MEMORY

Re: High-End Computer crashes with Madiface USB

Have you thoroughly checked your RAM modules? Is the PC running overclocked in any way?
If this were a driver issue, we'd be seeing more of it, but that is simply not the case.

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Re: High-End Computer crashes with Madiface USB

Still using standby? I am not afraid of using energy saving options on my CPU (controlling the CPU frequency), but I avoid standby mode with my audio machine. What do other users prefer here?

Re: High-End Computer crashes with Madiface USB

next crash! Yes I am still testing standby but that was ok for a couple of days as was the startup behavior. Thisis all of a sudden bad again and I got distortion after the last reboot. I really don't get what is defferent now than  when I tested starting the computer several times without any issue... RAM test I tried but the mem test sais I have to much RAM to test at once so I removed one of the bars and still had crashes. I didn't check removing the other instead. I could do this next. But it is strange that the system fell back into the old behavior and I don't get why. Maybe I did something different when disabling WDM sound. I check...

On Mon 11.07.2016 11:09:27 GMT your computer crashed
crash dump file: C:\Windows\memory.dmp
This was probably caused by the following module: madiface_usb_64.sys (madiface_usb_64+0x63AD)
Bugcheck code: 0x1E (0xFFFFFFFFC0000005, 0xFFFFF800E44E2A9D, 0x0, 0xFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF)
Error: KMODE_EXCEPTION_NOT_HANDLED
file path: C:\Windows\system32\drivers\madiface_usb_64.sys
product: Windows (R) Win 7 DDK driver
company: RME
description: MADIface USB Audio Driver (WDM)
Bug check description: This indicates that a kernel-mode program generated an exception which the error handler did not catch.
This appears to be a typical software driver bug and is not likely to be caused by a hardware problem.
A third party driver was identified as the probable root cause of this system error. It is suggested you look for an update for the following driver: madiface_usb_64.sys (MADIface USB Audio Driver (WDM), RME).
Google query: RME KMODE_EXCEPTION_NOT_HANDLED

24 (edited by vinark 2016-07-11 15:36:09)

Re: High-End Computer crashes with Madiface USB

Run memtest http://www.memtest86.com . I am not sure where I read this but some need to clock their ddr4 ram slower as advertised for 100% stability.
You can also run prime95 or linx to see how your computer behaves. You should have absolutely zero errors! Even one after an hour is to much.

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
Babyface pro fs, HDSP9652+ADI-8AE, HDSP9632

Re: High-End Computer crashes with Madiface USB

vinark wrote:

Run memtest http://www.memtest86.com . I am not sure where I read this but some need to clock their ddr4 ram slower as advertised for 100% stability.
You can also run prime95 or linx to see how your computer behaves. You should have absolutely zero errors! Even one after an hour is to much.

eventually in combination with memtest86+
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2187624

BR
Ramses
X10SRi-F, E5-1650v4, Win10Pro20H2, Cub11Pro, UFX+ (v0.9735), XTC, 12Mic, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE

Re: High-End Computer crashes with Madiface USB

ramses wrote:
vinark wrote:

Run memtest http://www.memtest86.com . I am not sure where I read this but some need to clock their ddr4 ram slower as advertised for 100% stability.
You can also run prime95 or linx to see how your computer behaves. You should have absolutely zero errors! Even one after an hour is to much.

eventually in combination with memtest86+
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2187624

He he...that is what I meant. Never do stuff on my mobile without reading glasses...

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
Babyface pro fs, HDSP9652+ADI-8AE, HDSP9632

Re: High-End Computer crashes with Madiface USB

Any resident AV software or the like running...?


Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

28 (edited by Chris T 2016-07-13 14:49:36)

Re: High-End Computer crashes with Madiface USB

No AV software is running. All that is running in general is Reaper, a bunch of plugins and Chrome. I will do a memory test next and after that I am running out of ideas. Maybe installing a second operating system on an extra partition. I almost got a SSL MADIxtreme very cheap on ebay. Didn't push it too much because that was just when the system was stable for three days. 1 hour after the auction ended, the computer crashed again. RME/synthax is asking 100 Euro for providing a HDSPe MADI card for 2 weeks testing. I'd probably rather buy one where I can test 30 days and send it back without loss if it doesn't work. BTW, Silentmaxx claims that they did test the system with Prime95 prior to delivery. And the statement that no driver issues are known doesn't fully convince me. What I am reporting could well be a compatibility issue. I bet there are not a lot users running Madiface on a windows desktop PC in the first place, plus with that specific motherboard. I also would have preferred a pcie solution if I wouldn't have done the transition from laptop to desktop after buying the audio interface...

Re: High-End Computer crashes with Madiface USB

MemTest86+ seems to run without errors. I will repeat a longer test at the weekend and will test with another PCIe USB card. I guess I am going to buy a HDSPe MADI card and sell the madiface if the other interface works. I am really hoping that this helps!!


Chris

30 (edited by Chris T 2016-07-17 10:37:01)

Re: High-End Computer crashes with Madiface USB

So, I am running Madiface over a different PCIe2USB card in a different slot since friday and no issues at all so far. The different USB controller seems to solve the problem (hopefully) and this particular one didn't introduce new errors. I even can go to standby with the sequencer on "play" and come back. The reason why I am stressing the standby topic is just for convinience, but using a master-slave plug I can shut down my whole studio with the push of a remote button on my computer keyboard and bring it back on that way.

What seems to be interesting is that before with the native USB connection I would get crackles in the ASIO when streaming HD video from clipfish (didn't happen on youtube). This is also fine now. Don't exactly know how this is related, but I am quite happy if this stays like that and the crashes won't happen anymore. Buffer size is 128 at 44.1kHz. If I go below that sound is completely messed up in this config. Before I could go down to 32 but would get cracles time by time. So all in all, in the current config buffer sizes 64 and 32 seem to be worse, but 128 runs without issues.

I still have to wait a while to tell that the crashes are gone, but one thing that makes me confident is that the one scenario that would always lead to the "memory_mangement" crash was the freeze of reaper and the hard closing of it with alt+F4. That happened in the new setup already, but without the crash. The freezing of reaper will be another topic. I can accept that for now but what I totally can't accept are system crashes...

31

Re: High-End Computer crashes with Madiface USB

Or is it just the 'other slot'? I have a different Gigabyte board. From the 4 onboard PCIe slots two will not recognize a PCIe2USB card, one will but it won't work, the last one works correctly (I am not talking RME but general USB operation). These days incompatibility is the modern plague...

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: High-End Computer crashes with Madiface USB

Crash!!!



On Mon 18.07.2016 18:45:06 GMT your computer crashed
crash dump file: C:\Windows\Minidump\071816-5171-01.dmp
This was probably caused by the following module: madiface_usb_64.sys (madiface_usb_64+0x5535)
Bugcheck code: 0x133 (0x0, 0x501, 0x500, 0x0)
Error: DPC_WATCHDOG_VIOLATION
file path: C:\Windows\system32\drivers\madiface_usb_64.sys
product: Windows (R) Win 7 DDK driver
company: RME
description: MADIface USB Audio Driver (WDM)
Bug check description: The DPC watchdog detected a prolonged run time at an IRQL of DISPATCH_LEVEL or above.
This appears to be a typical software driver bug and is not likely to be caused by a hardware problem. This problem might be caused by a thermal issue.
A third party driver was identified as the probable root cause of this system error. It is suggested you look for an update for the following driver: madiface_usb_64.sys (MADIface USB Audio Driver (WDM), RME).
Google query: RME DPC_WATCHDOG_VIOLATION

33 (edited by vinark 2016-07-19 10:26:52)

Re: High-End Computer crashes with Madiface USB

Did you run memtest86+,linX ( http://www.softpedia.com/get/System/Be … mark.shtml) or prime95 yet? LinX needs no install and takes maybe 30 min to finish. But do run it with lots of memory selected, in your case 8gb at least.
If you run mainly audio on the system it is logical errors will be with the audio system (RME).

And if you really are suspicious of the driver itself, try an older one.

Good luck!

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
Babyface pro fs, HDSP9652+ADI-8AE, HDSP9632

34 (edited by Chris T 2016-07-19 11:34:26)

Re: High-End Computer crashes with Madiface USB

I did run memtest86+ with 1 of the 2 memory bars installed. The test ended without errors, but I did have a crash with that config. I didn't check the settings of memtest, just started the test. I will repeat the test with all 32GB installed and make sure the settings are right. I also start to think that the fact that the RME driver is involved in the crash is misleading as vinark points out.

I googled the DPC_WATCHDOG_VIOLATION message and found that 2 things should be done. Updating the harddrive drivers, and disabling the fast boot option. I did the latter for now. Updating the drivers by web search lead to the statement that they are up to date. Maybe I should do a manual search.

In the meantime, Silentmaxx is having a look at the computer and is running additional tests. Checking temperature etc., since as the last crash message sais "This problem might be caused by a thermal issue. " One other thing that I realized, but I will have to repeat to confirm, is that after cranking up the temperature with Prime95 and then closing prime and starting Reaper, I had excessive crackles. I had to resart the computer then it went away I believe. Don't know if the temperature had dropped enough by that time or if prime95 messed up the system. I will repeat these tests, but I am getting the feeling that it is the pc having a problem. I see three options now: Either the computer runs fine with a different soundcard. To rule this out I can install my steinberg ur22 I use for live. I then cannot run some of my instruments but at least I can produce. Second possibility is that a new windows installation will do it and third is what I beleive the most now. There is a hardware problem in the PC itself.

I just got a call back from Silentmaxx. They ran a few quick tests on my pc over the internet and within 5min the cpu temp went over 90° celsius. This is about 10-15° more than expected in this config. My crash yesterday was during rendering audio, pretty much the only time I have a high cpu load. At least that is a hint to one of the problems. Not quite sure if the other crashes are related to that... They ask me to send in the PC for further analysis. I will do that most likely, when I am on holiday, first half of August. One day, I will be blessed with a functional studio :-P

35 (edited by vinark 2016-07-19 14:37:36)

Re: High-End Computer crashes with Madiface USB

Good luck Chris and do let us know how this works out. Most simple cause would be if the cpu cooler came loose during transport. A well known problem. If there is a small movement in the cooler while you try to wiggle it it is definitely not seated correctly.
Good luck
Vincent

Oh and don't run LinX now, it gets the cpu even hotter the Prime95

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
Babyface pro fs, HDSP9652+ADI-8AE, HDSP9632

Re: High-End Computer crashes with Madiface USB

thanks Vincent, and yes, the cooler was slightly rotating under the mounting bracket, when I tried to bent the heatpipes back in place. The cooling rips are hanging down a bit and this is a known issue due to transportation and usually doesn't mean anyting (they claim). The heatpipes are slightly bent and this can be corrected. While trying this I realized the movement of the cooler.

Here is a photo of a similar cooler:
http://www.silentmaxx.de/leise-komponen … block.html

I wonder if the cpu could have been stressed to damage by such a force during transport. Hopefully not, but if so I hope they replace it. I mentioned in the first call months ago that the styrofoam had a crack in the package which pointed to a high force. It wasn't considered a problem up to now. What a change!

Re: High-End Computer crashes with Madiface USB

Thanks for the updates...


Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Re: High-End Computer crashes with Madiface USB

Most likely not. CPU can crash due too heat, but if they still work they are ok to my knowledge and experience. Intel has very good heat protection. I once had a cooler that didn't touch the cpu at all (my fault) and the pc shut down after a few seconds. If removing and reattaching the cooler is an option for you I would try that.

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
Babyface pro fs, HDSP9652+ADI-8AE, HDSP9632

Re: High-End Computer crashes with Madiface USB

I could but don't want to risk anything. That thing is huge and I don't really know how to access the screw under the cooler. I'll check it but first here is an onservation:

running the daw brings the temp up to 55°C. Starting prime95 brings it up to 80 almost instantly then to 90+ within 1 or 2 minutes. Ending prime95 makes the temp drop from 90 to 60 within 2-3seconds. Doesn't that show that the cooler doesn't buffer the temp right? What is a normal transition time on a load change?

Re: High-End Computer crashes with Madiface USB

I would ask the manufacturer for another CPU, as that shows a hot spot around one of the on-die diodes.

Or could there be something that Prime95 does to raise and lower temps that fast?

Re: High-End Computer crashes with Madiface USB

Sounds like insufficient cooling. The drop is normal and the rise too, but AFAIK this is very high temps, but I have no experience with your CPU. Googling something like normal temps under prime with your CPU should give you an idea.

I did a quick search and it is indeed to high by at least 20 degrees. Only LinX should get you maybe up to 80 but prime should be below or at 70 max

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
Babyface pro fs, HDSP9652+ADI-8AE, HDSP9632

Re: High-End Computer crashes with Madiface USB

well I was running the daw in parallel, but we are talking 20W power consumption with the DAW and 80 with daw and prime. The processor is low power, the cooler is passive but should do better I guess. Well the fact that Silentmaxx is calling it back sais that this is not ok. And I assume the cooler is not well attached, but I rather send it in, since the processor could be damaged. I still have warranty. There are reports about 6700K processors being broken by the cooler during transport and a friend of mine once broke an etch off a processor while attaching the cooler and it was still running but playing mp3 was messed up. As a hardware designer I can imagine some weird scenarios, so I think I make sure the producer takes care of the functionality.

Re: High-End Computer crashes with Madiface USB

The most likely reason for why you got massive crackles after running Prime is that the CPU was throttling due to high temperatures.

Download the latest version (8.1 beta 2) of Throttlestop. Among many other things this software allows to monitor CPU throttling ("TDP Throttle"). Try to disable the Turbo to see if it makes a difference for stability. You can also try to disable C1E to see if it makes a difference for performance.

Also make sure that the "High Performance" (Höchstleistung) Windows power profile is enabled. The default "Balanced" one enabled PCI link state power management, which can leads to Bluescreens with some PCI(e) hardware (like the onboard Firewire port of my 2011 Macbook Pro in combination with a FF400).

44 (edited by Chris T 2016-07-20 15:22:52)

Re: High-End Computer crashes with Madiface USB

Timur Born wrote:

The most likely reason for why you got massive crackles after running Prime is that the CPU was throttling due to high temperatures.

thanks for the info, but that effect came because I closed the prime95 window but it was still running in the background. I could tell when looking at the temperatures and power consumption. I have to end prime in the task manager, then the crackles are gone. My fault. On a further test with prime at 90°C I tried to push against the cooler to see if it affects the temperature. It went down 5°C and pushing in a slightly different direction the temp went over a 100°C all of a sudden. So it is obvious that the cooler isn't well attached. I'll send it in for repair.

Re: High-End Computer crashes with Madiface USB

Chris T wrote:
Timur Born wrote:

The most likely reason for why you got massive crackles after running Prime is that the CPU was throttling due to high temperatures.

thanks for the info, but that effect came because I closed the prime95 window but it was still running in the background. I could tell when looking at the temperatures and power consumption. I have to end prime in the task manager, then the crackles are gone. My fault. On a further test with prime at 90°C I tried to push against the cooler to see if it affects the temperature. It went down 5°C and pushing in a slightly different direction the temp went over a 100°C all of a sudden. So it is obvious that the cooler isn't well attached. I'll send it in for repair.

WOW! If you still have to work with the machine you might try underclocking a little. I am not sure if this will work but in the advanced power settings you can set min and max cpu%. Set both to 70 and run prime. Any cooler keep it there. If everything is working as it should this would also lower the voltahe and thus temperature.
Good luck!

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
Babyface pro fs, HDSP9652+ADI-8AE, HDSP9632

Re: High-End Computer crashes with Madiface USB

Hi,
my computer came back from repair. The CPU Cooler was reattached and the "DPC_WATCHDOG_VIOLATION" errors seem to be gone. These started to occur since I slightly moved the cooler in place figuring that the attachment is loose during installation of the PCIe USB card. So that seems to be fixed. However, the original crashes with the madiface connected to the on-board usb still occur as before. So I am back at the point where I have to assume that madiface and the on-board USB don't get along well. At least I seem to have a workaround. I am still considering to replace the madiface on the long term, also because I might be able to reduce latency further with a PCIe solution...

Re: High-End Computer crashes with Madiface USB

These problems are the same with all USB ports? (My computer has two "good" and two "bad" USB3-ports...)
Do you have the opportunity to test this with a USB3 card inside (PCIe)?

48 (edited by tzzsmk 2016-09-01 14:28:06)

Re: High-End Computer crashes with Madiface USB

hmm apologize if I repeat any of steps written above (not much time to read all that), but try this:
1) check in BIOS if it's possible to switch USB 3.0 connectors to 2.0 (compatibility) mode (worth the try, believe me)
2) check in Windows Power Settings scheme if "USB selective suspend" (or however is it called) is DISABLED
3) check in Windows Device Manager if the audio interface and corresponding USB buses have power saving disabled:
rightclick on the hub > Properties > Power management > UNCHECK "Allow the computer to turn off this device to save power"
4) it's a cheapy motherboard, so don't even bother trying to hook up the audio interface to PC case USB connectors, wiring is too long to maintain sufficient voltage power
5) if you can, try shortest possible USB cable you can find, I do the same for Fireface 802 just as a precaution and NEVER had any problems
6) make sure no other device is connected on same USB controller (usually 2 USB connectors share 1 controller)
7) try finding out which USB connectors are using direct controller (not some third-party ASMedia, but pure Intel) and try using those preferably
8) type this in start (without quotes): "resmon" and check:
8.1) on "memory" tab how much is the grey area, shouldn't be more than 100MB - more may indicate problem
8.2) on "cpu" tab how much cpu load has process "system interruptions" - more than 1-5% is a driver or system problem

HDSPe AIO, ADI-2 DAC, Fireface UFX, Octamic D, Octamic II
Reaper, High Sierra

Re: High-End Computer crashes with Madiface USB

Ulrich wrote:

These problems are the same with all USB ports? (My computer has two "good" and two "bad" USB3-ports...)
Do you have the opportunity to test this with a USB3 card inside (PCIe)?

I checked a few ports not sure if all, since it takes a while for the crash to occur.

The PCIe to USB3 card is exactly what is working stable so far. This is my workaround, and I am at least a bit more relaxed now.. Still I would like to run the native USB if possible..

50 (edited by Chris T 2016-09-02 09:49:07)

Re: High-End Computer crashes with Madiface USB

Still crashing even with madiface connected to PCIe card!! I got a bunch of crashes again, even with the "watchdog error". Madiface is disconnected from now on and I am working with the audio kontrol 1 from native instruments now. I need to know if the computer ever crashes without the madiface. This is such a pain in the butt. We are starting a show this month and my studio is ripped apart. Investing a lot of money doesn't seem to solve problems. Should I have listened to the guys who told my to go for apple???