1 (edited by bossmanottoman 2018-02-04 16:30:20)

Topic: RME Madiface Pro + SPL Madison?

new questions. im new to recording. i was thinking about investing into a Madiface Pro.. Let me know if this is a practical solution. I have 4 synths (4 stereo outs) and few preamps which i wanted to connect/track/monitor simultaneously into my DAW.

a) Can i buy a 16i/o converter  like SPL Madison which is also madi based and use that as a conversion and use Madiface Pro as the interface?

b) does Madiface connects/interface with PC through USB? or do i need a seperate Madi device?

c) lastly, is total mix compitable with PT 12? or with RME am i only able to use the RME software?

are these two units compatible with each other? in a nutshell, can i use madison as a converter and run to 4 stereo synths and listen, record, playback through the Madiface, or there is a better workflow with any other RME unints, please do inform me.  i would appreciate any help!

2 (edited by ramses 2018-02-04 17:36:35)

Re: RME Madiface Pro + SPL Madison?

Madiface Pro and SPL madison cost together €1599 and €1199 = €2800

For the same money you could buy an UFX+ €2699 and ARC USB €129 = €2828

The UFX+ would have several advantages for you
- everything in one 19" rack unit
- advanced analog section (in regards to Mic preamps and analog section including headphone preamp)
- Full standalone operation by display
- enhanced Durec, either as a parallel running backup of a recording for safety reasons or to be used like a tape recorder
- USB3 and Thunderbold connection
- The ARC usb is a phantastic remote control, also very useful for standalone operation

You have already 8 analog INs and Outs ..
Shall you require more analog I/Os, then you can still expand via ADAT or MADI.

To your second question, madiface is being connected to the PC via USB2.

TotalMix is a mixer offering you the possibility to create any to any routing, create flexible monitor and headphone mixes.
Or even to build something like a parallel fx loop for a marshall amp.

You dont require TotalMix for operation, you can also enable a new operation mode called "DAW mode", which disables totalmix fx completely. In DAW mode you have to do all the routing inside of your DAW then. This is mainly for customers who do not need all the features, that TotalMix FX would offer to them.

In regards to protools, this is a very special topic, as Protools (non-HD version) seems still to have a certain channel limit so that you would anyway get into problems if you want to use more than (if I remember right) more than around 30 I/O channels. Protools is a very special animal.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

3 (edited by bossmanottoman 2018-02-04 17:43:43)

Re: RME Madiface Pro + SPL Madison?

reason i was thinking RME Madiface because it gives me flexibility of being portable too on demand. i didnt know UFX+ works standalone too, thats great.

a) is there better converters on the UFX+? in comparison to MADIface, do you know?

b) you said to expand further you can use madi on UFX+, i didnt think UFX+ had madi? i could be wrong.

thank you for all the information about PT compatibility.

ramses wrote:

Madiface Pro and SPL madison cost together €1599 and €1199 = €2800

For the same money you could buy an UFX+ €2699 and ARC USB €129 = €2828

The UFX+ would have several advantages for you
- everything in one 19" rack unit
- advanced analog section (in regards to Mic preamps and analog section including headphone preamp)
- Full standalone operation by display
- enhanced Durec, either as a parallel running backup of a recording for safety reasons or to be used like a tape recorder
- USB3 and Thunderbold connection
- The ARC usb is a phantastic remote control, also very useful for standalone operation

You have already 8 analog INs and Outs ..
Shall you require more analog I/Os, then you can still expand via ADAT or MADI.

To your second question, madiface is being connected to the PC via USB2.

TotalMix is a mixer offering you the possibility to create any to any routing, create flexible monitor and headphone mixes.
Or even to build something like a parallel fx loop for a marshall amp.

You dont require TotalMix for operation, you can also enable a new operation mode called "DAW mode", which disables totalmix fx completely. In DAW mode you have to do all the routing inside of your DAW then. This is mainly for customers who do not need all the features, that TotalMix FX would offer to them.

In regards to protools, this is a very special topic, as Protools (non-HD version) seems still to have a certain channel limit so that you would anyway get into problems if you want to use more than (if I remember right) more than around 30 I/O channels. Protools is a very special animal.

Re: RME Madiface Pro + SPL Madison?

Here a few blog articles in terms of TM FX and UFX+ and MADI

https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/ind … rnal-equi/

https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/ind … al-Videos/

Routing example parallel effect loop for guitar amp
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/ind … arren-Rig/

UFX+ and Octamic XTC ... up to 8 instances of XTC can be remote controlled as so called AUX device inside of one TM FX instance. So you can save the complete routing for all devices in your setup in 8 so called snapshots, which you can store to disk. 30 of such workspaces with 8 snapshots can be stored in Workspace Quick Save slots.

With the new TM FX v1.50 it is possible to control TM FX even from a remote pc or ios device / tablet.
This saves you even a further screen for TM FX, shall you want to have TM FX permanently open.

Some more comfort you can get also with solutions like this to open TM FX and Driver Setup Dialog by a function key:
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/ind … ndruck-DE/

What I want to tell, its a very powerful, comfortably solution. Only in regards to Protools you need to look more closely.
Take smth like Cubase if you can to get rid of all these PT restrictions that sadly exist for so long time, if possible for you.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: RME Madiface Pro + SPL Madison?

bossmanottoman wrote:

RME Madiface gives me portability though. i didnt know UFX+ works standalone too, thats great.

a) is there better converters on the UFX+?

b) you said to expand further you can use madi on UFX+, i didnt think UFX+ had madi? i could be wrong.

thank you for all the information about PT compatibility.

UFX+ / UFX II are the 2 new flagship interfaces after the UFX was the flagship interface for many years.

When UFX+ was 1st announced, RME underpinned, that they reworked the complete analog section to make it better.
and I can tell that I am very satisfied by the quality.

Information about what has been changed with the UFX+ compared to the older UFX you can find in this article
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/ind … 8-RME-UFX/
I put together everything from tests, advertizements/statements from RME.

UFX+ has a complete MADI section. 64 channels à 44.1/48kHz.
If you dont require this you can take the UFX II.
This interface has the same amount of channels like the former UFX (everything but MADI).
For this reason the UFX II has only USB2 which is fully sufficient for this amount of channels.
Even the Madiface PRo with more channels only requires USB2.

As the UFX+ has more channels like the MADIface Pro it requires and got USB3 plus Thunderbolt (which can be regarded as an extension to the PCIe bus).

If you look at the RTT times that the ASIO driver needs to tell the DAW, then you will see that all RME interfaces do very well  no matter whether you use USB2, Fw400, USB3, PCIe or thunderbolt:

https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/index.php/Attachment/1931-UFX-UFX-RayDAT-Latencies-jpg

If you want to have a PDF which compares most of the recording interfaces (except i.e. the AIO) then you can look here:
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/ind … B-MADIfac/
In particular this PDF:
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/index.ph … 017-12-pdf

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

6 (edited by ramses 2018-02-04 17:58:34)

Re: RME Madiface Pro + SPL Madison?

If I were you and if the amount of analog channels of the UFX+ alone would fit, then I would go UFX+.

With Protools you will have anyway have issues with more than ~30 channels, no matter which vendor you choose.

RME will give you definitive more values than the competition...
- quality
- everything under own control by FPGA and the possibility of firmware upgrades
- Durec
- Digicheck
- standalone capabilities (6 recallable standalone profiles)
- MADI, either all fibre (multimode) where 1 link between devices can be up to 2km)
- MADI can be split, 32 channels fibre, 32 channels copper (you need to sacrifice the 2 WC connectors for it then)
on demand you can even raise special order with Single Mode fiber connectors which support even higher distances.

Ultimate solution is i.e. RME UFX+ and up to 8 Octamic XTC simply connected via MADI.
All XTC remote controllable as so called AUX Device by one TM FX instance.
Remote control goes via MIDI over MADI. Then you even do not require midi cables for remote control.
One fibre "ring" and you are set ...

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

7 (edited by bossmanottoman 2018-02-04 18:11:30)

Re: RME Madiface Pro + SPL Madison?

im looking into UFX+, does have a lot more going on and got excellent reviews, i did miss out, it does have MADI like you said.

maybe i can add SPL Madison ADDA converters through MADI to UFX+ for more 16 i/o channels if needed for STuDio use.

and get the MADIFACE pro for a portability. meaning, buying both.. and use it for location other than home studio..

Re: RME Madiface Pro + SPL Madison?

This sounds like a plan.

Although I don't undertand excatly what you mean by portability.

The MADIface Pro alone or also together with the SPL madison which would require anyway
3 Rack Units for the madison and 2 x 19" Sub-D to XLR breakout boxes.

Do you mainly require AD or also DA channels ?

If you mainly want to record from a mixers CUE outputs or alike then I would propose to take the
UFX+ and 1-2 Octamic XTC.


The Octamic XTC you can use very versatile
- it has 8 XLR inputs either to be used as excellent Mic preamps or as symmetric line inputs
- the 8 combo plugs also support (when used with TRS/TS plugs) 4 TRS line (with PAD) and 4 TS Instrument inputs
- it supports also 4 x AES I/O (via Breakout Cable) and ADAT IO
- you can use it as format converter between analog and digital (ADAT/AES)
- it also support class compliant mode so that you have an excellent preamp for i.e. i-devices
also supported directly under Windows
- I told you already it can be remote controlled by MIDI over MADI and
- configured as AUX device in the TotalMix FX instance of your UFX+, so all of your studio settings can be saved at once

1 UFX+ and 1-2 (up to 8) Octamic XTC are "killer" in terms of flexibility, together with the ARC USB just a dream in functionality and comfort.

It only lacks analog outputs ... which you could mitigate i.e. by getting additionally an ADI-8 QS or by using 3rd party when this becomes too expensive to you.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

9 (edited by bossmanottoman 2018-02-04 23:29:33)

Re: RME Madiface Pro + SPL Madison?

i mainly require the AD cause i have about 4 synths. which is technically 8 analog outs.  then need more another 4-8 for preamps..

and the DA side, i just  need a monitor controller. but the RME UFX+ does it all.. what you think of Madiface XT? how does the compare to UFX+ when it comes to conversion quality?

also i have never used outboard gear before. but i would like to have the 8-16i/0 handy, if i ever want to invest in few analog compressors or EQs... so i have future proof system.

why do you favor UFX+ over the Madiface Pro,,, and like i said, what you think of the MADIface XT since its almost in the same ballpark as the UFX+

Re: RME Madiface Pro + SPL Madison?

Pro and XT only have two analog inputs each, you'd need to start out with an additional converter. The UFX+ has pretty much all you need to start with, you can add I/O later.
Conversion quality isn't really an issue, they are no differences in sound quality by design.

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

11 (edited by bossmanottoman 2018-02-05 00:04:09)

Re: RME Madiface Pro + SPL Madison?

RME Support wrote:

Pro and XT only have two analog inputs each, you'd need to start out with an additional converter. The UFX+ has pretty much all you need to start with, you can add I/O later.
Conversion quality isn't really an issue, they are no differences in sound quality by design.

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

hello Daniel.

appreciate your response. that makes sense, so UFX+ just has it all without having to invest in more channels which would obviously require another madi converter to start with to have more channels.

correct me if im wrong, youre saying, all the converters on these 3 models are the same, not one better than the other, the only difference is the number analog inputs/outputs

if thats the case above, would you say UFX+ is more bang for the buck when it comes to Madiface XT, since UFX+ has all of the same features, plus the additional analog inputs

many thanks

12

Re: RME Madiface Pro + SPL Madison?

The bigger difference is not the converters (here none as they are the same), but the analog input  and output stage, which is more flexible with multiple reference levels on the UFX+.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: RME Madiface Pro + SPL Madison?

MC wrote:

The bigger difference is not the converters (here none as they are the same), but the analog input  and output stage, which is more flexible with multiple reference levels on the UFX+.

ok i believe i made up my mind. it would buying the UFX+ for my needs such is all those inputs for my synths.

last question, the 4 preamps on UFX+.. if you use them, do they bypass some of the line inputs, and vice versa. or can you use the 4 preamps and 8line-in inputs simultaneously?

14 (edited by ramses 2018-02-05 08:23:04)

Re: RME Madiface Pro + SPL Madison?

bossmanottoman wrote:
MC wrote:

The bigger difference is not the converters (here none as they are the same), but the analog input  and output stage, which is more flexible with multiple reference levels on the UFX+.

ok i believe i made up my mind. it would buying the UFX+ for my needs such is all those inputs for my synths.

last question, the 4 preamps on UFX+.. if you use them, do they bypass some of the line inputs, and vice versa. or can you use the 4 preamps and 8line-in inputs simultaneously?

These are additional 4 mic preamps which can also be used for instruments (with a TS plug).

And the UFX+ gives you in contrast to the other 2 mentioned RME interfaces
- Durec (enhanced version compared to UFX)
- internal real time clock so that you have real timestamps for your Durec recorded files
- standalone Operation by display (enhanced compared to UFX)
- Autoset, which is also very useful (MF Pro, doesnt have it, only the MF XT)

You can see / compare it here in my overvew:
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/index.ph … 017-12-pdf

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

15

Re: RME Madiface Pro + SPL Madison?

12 separate channels of analog input...

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

16 (edited by bossmanottoman 2018-02-05 16:02:47)

Re: RME Madiface Pro + SPL Madison?

MC wrote:

12 separate channels of analog input...

very nice, im sold! never used a total mix before. i used PT 12. so it would be a learning curve i imagine but im guessing UFX+ works with too i imagine.

i also have a spl crimson. it has 2 wonderful preamps but no analog output except for 4 analog outputs for monitors. can i plug the analog outs of the monitor(for speakers) into the line inputs of the UFX+ to have two extra preamps? is that possible? or am i wrong?

Re: RME Madiface Pro + SPL Madison?

You still will require a DAW for the usual DAW work.

TotalMix is brilliant for the routing part und to create nice Monitor and Headphone mixes.
Digitally save settings / routing
Control Durec, Remote Control Aux Devices, etc etc ...

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: RME Madiface Pro + SPL Madison?

ramses wrote:

You still will require a DAW for the usual DAW work.

TotalMix is brilliant for the routing part und to create nice Monitor and Headphone mixes.
Digitally save settings / routing
Control Durec, Remote Control Aux Devices, etc etc ...

ok im a bit confused, Total mix is not a daw itself? its a routing software only? i use mainly PT 12, so that would work together with total mix? why you recommend the ARC?

19 (edited by ramses 2018-02-05 19:12:44)

Re: RME Madiface Pro + SPL Madison?

Like with all other recording devices, TotalMix FX is the routing software in between HW and DAW.
It makes it possible to route signals to phones and monitors in near real-time.
If you would have to route everything through USB / Thunderbolt it requires significant more time
until the signal is back to the phones output compared to the very quick signal flow inside of the FPGA chip.
This is nothing new, also companies like Focusrite and others have their routing software.
The difference with RME is simply, that it is superior in the design and functionalities.
And it allows to be put into a mode which is called DAW mode, if you do not want these routing capabilites for whatever reason.

https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/index.php/Attachment/1988-TotalMix-Diagram-Overview-Signal-Flow-jpg

> i use mainly PT 12, so that would work together with total mix?

Completely independend of each other.

> why you recommend the ARC?

In the context above I didn't mean the ARC USB wink

I meant that certain devices can be remote controlled by TM FX. Like i.e. the Octamic XTC.
You can connect up to 8 Octamic XTC to a RME UFX+ via MADI (as so called AUX device).
Remote control is being performed via "MIDI over MADI", so that you do not require any additional MIDI cabling.
With TM FX you can store digitally the channel settings of all 8 Octamic XTCs...

ARC USB is a different unit / topic, the successor of the old "Remote Control" and "Advanced Remote Control (ARC)".
ARC USB doesnt require anymore a special plug on the recording interface.
All recording interfaces that have TotalMix FX can make use of the new "ARC USB", as TM FX does then the interfacing between the remote controller and the RME device.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: RME Madiface Pro + SPL Madison?

ramses wrote:

You still will require a DAW for the usual DAW work.

TotalMix is brilliant for the routing part und to create nice Monitor and Headphone mixes.
Digitally save settings / routing
Control Durec, Remote Control Aux Devices, etc etc ...

perfect thank you. im sold!