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RME User Forum → ADI-2 & 2/4 Pro series, ADI-2 DAC series → ADI-2 DAC: settings with power amp
Hi !
I'm using my ADI-2 DAC directly connected (rca output) to my venerable Quad 606 power amplifier.
The result is, I think, quite wonderful and better than with my preamplifier in the middle.
However I have some questions. I have Auto Ref Level set to - 5dBU and my "normal" volume setting is between -45dB and -35dB (in 44/16 with slow filter most of the time).
I wonder if these settings are nominal in this kind of configuration.
Proposal. One of the very nice things of the ADI-2 * series is the dynamic loudness feature.
When you use it, then its adviced (see handbook) to use Auto Ref Level set to on.
Then the ADI-2 * sets automatically the proper reference level.
if your volume settings are mostly down to -45db, then I would suggest to configure the Low Vol Ref to -45 - 20 = -65 dB so that the loudness starts to work at -45 dB and reaches its maximum at -65 dB.
If -45dB is already quite silent it could be that you need to set Low Vol Ref to a higher value of i.e. -60 dB, so that the dynamic Loudness starts its work already at -40 dB and reaches its maximum at -60 dB.
You will like dynamic loudness and for this you need the auto ref level set to auto anyway.
Also without dynamic loudness I think its an advantage to use auto ref level set to auto, so that the device finds its optimim ref level on its own. Then you only need to concentrate to set the desired Volume.
Using -5 dBu with volume down to -45 to -35 means that your Quad power amplifier has an extremely sensitive input - or you listen at very low volume. If you like it and don't hear noise or hum you can just let it be like this.
Technically it could make sense to lower the sensitivity of the Quad. I don't know if that amp has controls to do so. If not, one way is to add a passive attenuator at the DAC's output so that you can reach volume settings 10 to 20 dB higher. The result wil be a 10 to 20 dB higher SNR into the Quad. But as said, if you can't hear noise right now it won't change anything. Here are some more details:
https://www.forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=25399
In fact Quad 606 iinput sensitivity is fixed to 0.5V
Sensitivity 0.5V(500mV RMS) means what with input signal 500mV yours AMP send to acoustic system nominal power. For Quad 606 this is 140 watts per channel.
RME standart out is PLUS 4dBu with 0 dBFS digital scale. 4dBu - 1.23V RMS.
Correct maximum out from RME to Quad is MINUS 4dBu.
Usual for home listening used maximun 30-40 watts per channel for acoustic system with 90dbm sensitivity.
Understand this give you the way to read right RME out parameters on the screen and set up master volume and loudness parameters
Useful tools
RME standart out is PLUS 4dBu with 0 dBFS digital scale. 4dBu - 1.23V RMS.
Correct maximum out from RME to Quad is MINUS 4dBu.
http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-db-volt.htm
We're talking ADI-2 DAC here, availble ref out is -5 dBu, and according to your calculation it would be just about perfect. 
That is very clear and comforts me !
I must say that my ears find the result excellent.
I understand and agree with the recommendations here. I also use the ADI-2 DAC directly into a Quad Elite QSP Power Amp and am slightly confused.
The sensitivity of the Quad is quoted at 775mv; using an output setting of +1dBU is therefore suitable and works fine.
Strangely the matching pre-amp; The Quad Elite Pre has an RCA output of 2mV (?????).
Should I be using +7dBu on the ADI-2 for better sound quality ?
Regards
Firefly,
Welcome Aboard! Great to hear that you're enjoying your ADI-2. It is indeed, a High Achiever. Wonderful SQ.
As has been recommended to you already, some In-Line Attenuators (Hosa brand is fine, and not expensive), and Auto-Ref enabled will work wonders for you.
With my Set-Up (Per MC), a typical Volume level is now between 0db, and -10.
Let Auto-Ref worry about the Math, so you can just Listen. Good Stuff Mate!
Enjoy!
Hello,
I am looking at this : https://rothwellaudio.16.ekm.shop/in-li … rs-2-p.asp I suppose that -10db is enough in my case ?
Firefly,
Those look nice. Have you purchased yet?
If not, consider an Attenuator with a Selectable Attenuation Feature. Give yourself some adjustment Range.
That Said, We really want to get your "Nominal" Volume Setting on the ADI-2 somewhere in the Vicinity of "0" (+/-)
That being a Volume Setting you most commonly find yourself listening to Music.
In my System, -20db Attenuators put me Spot On, and the "Quiet" between notes (Optimized SNR) ia Stunning!! Almost Eerie!
You Got This!!
Enjoy!
Firefly,
If I can comment further on the Matter...
Where "Articulation" matters are concerned, Room Acoustics need to be looked at! (Us Audiophile Types buy all Sorts of Gear, that Our Rooms manipulate with the finesse of a Wrecking Ball)
Get your Basics set to Spec, and then let's consider how treating your listening room can take SQ yet further! Pros have known this for Years.
So I am trying these Rothwell attenuators. For now I am unable to win or lose something in sound quality. these Rothwell attenuators. For the moment, I am unable to say if I win or lose anything in sound quality...
Maybe the sound is more dense and softer (and less airy) with the attenuators ?
Signal Levels are reduced. So it is simply not as loud as it was before at any given Volume Setting. Just turn up the Volume. That's why we're using the Attenuators...to get our normal Vol Setting as close to "0" as is feasible. Levels aside, there should be no other effect on SQ.
PS: Don't forget to re-adjust your Low-Vol Ref setting in "Loudness" IIRC...Factory Default is -35db. Make sure this value is set 20db below your NEW normal volume setting in order to get the full benefit of this feature.
Example: If your typical Vol. setting(things are beginning to get a bit Loud) is -5db...set your Low Ref to -25db.
Signal Levels are reduced. So it is simply not as loud as it was before at any given Volume Setting. Just turn up the Volume. That's why we're using the Attenuators...to get our normal Vol Setting as close to "0" as is feasible. Levels aside, there should be no other effect on SQ.
PS: Don't forget to re-adjust your Low-Vol Ref setting in "Loudness" IIRC...Factory Default is -35db. Make sure this value is set 20db below your NEW normal volume setting in order to get the full benefit of this feature.
Example: If your typical Vol. setting(things are beginning to get a bit Loud) is -5db...set your Low Ref to -25db.
Curt,
Newbie question: When you say we want to try to "get our normal Vol Setting as close to "0" as feasible", are you talking about the Vol setting on the ADI-2 DAC or the amp???
On the ADI-2 DAC Vol. Display. That's the one
Many thanks, Curt.
RPGroman, Firefly, et al...Plz re-review the User Manual Section regarding Auto-Ref.
It explains in considerable detail the REAL PURPOSE of this "Gain-Staging" exercise. In summary, we don't want to let any of our SNR go to Waste.
Late Edit: The "Auto-Ref" feature is your Friend in the Quest for Optimal SNR Please ensure that You are using it!
Also, be sure to check back, and Post your results! Surely, there will be future users who encounter a similiar situation as yours, and a brief Outline of your Corrective steps would be of Great Benefit to them as well
Thanks, and Good Luck to you Both!
Best Wishes for a PRO Result.
Curt
RPGroman, Firefly, et al...Plz re-review the User Manual Section regarding Auto-Ref.
It explains in considerable detail the REAL PURPOSE of this "Gain-Staging" exercise. In summary, we don't want to let any of our SNR go to Waste.
Late Edit: The "Auto-Ref" feature is your Friend in the Quest for Optimal SNR Please ensure that You are using it!
Also, be sure to check back, and Post your results! Surely, there will be future users who encounter a similiar situation as yours, and a brief Outline of your Corrective steps would be of Great Benefit to them as well
Thanks, and Good Luck to you Both!
Best Wishes for a PRO Result.
Curt
I followed your advice (and the instructions in the manual) and have properly set my system for optimal SNR while connected to an external Amp. I did have to trim the gain back quite a bit on the amp, but now I have the upper limit of my normal listening volume at approx. 0db and the low volume ref set at -25 db.
all is good and thanks for the mini tutorial
Captain...
Voilá!!!
That is Wonderful News!!! Thanks for Sharing!!
Curt
Gain staging is the process of managing the relative levels in each step of an audio signal flow to prevent introduction of noise and distortion. Ideal gain staging occurs when each component in an audio signal flow is receiving and transmitting signal in the optimum region of its dynamic range. Wikipedia
Fun Reading.
As someone who is still learning how to properly setup a 2 channel stereo system, I wanted to say thanks to all who asked and answered. This helped A LOT.
Devante,
Thanks for your Comments. We're ALL Learning here! Enjoy some Music today!!
All the Best,
Curt
Hello,
after few day, I can say that the sound with these attenuators is..... duller. I loss some dynamic, some airyness and more important I think, color, timbre and realism.
So, without attenuators, directly conneted to the power amp, I am using more digital attenuation. Is it a real problem ? (even 16 bits, -40dB or even -50dB).
Firefly,
With the Attenuators, where would you say your "typical" Volume Setting is?
Have you adjusted the Low-Vol Ref setting for the Loudness feature accordingly?
Without Attenuators, what then is the Vol. Setting typically? It seems that before you were WAAAAY down low on Vol setting at the start of this thread.
Thanks!
Curt
Curt,
With attenuators : typical volume between -25 -40 (near field listening)
With attenuators : -10 - 25
I don't use loudness feature.
Thanks.
Firefly,
I really feel like Fletcher/Munson is Playing Tricks with us. You seem to listen at rather low volumes, and the Dynamic Loudness feature isn't a Toy, but rather directly addresses a peculiar, and Scientifically Proven aspect of the Human Auditory System as listening levels decrease.
Please Use the Dynamic Loudness feature!
You'll be impressed.
Curt
I had some Rothwell -10 db attenuators around and have those installed. The ADI-2 DAC is feeding, via RCA, directly into my integrated amplifier. In speaking with the dealer/support for my amp, they told me that optimum performance of the amp was with the volume knob set between the 11 and 1 o'clock position (there is no digital volume display). With the amp volume set to 11 o'clock position, I can get the RME to about -5 or -6 db before things get a bit too loud. I've got both the Auto Ref and the dynamic loudness features on and the loudness setting is -25.
My understanding is that with Auto Ref turned "ON" that whatever number (-5 dbu, +1 etc.) is displayed in the ref settings is not held constant, but changes automatically with volume changes.. That -dbu Ref Level numerical setting would only be held static at that value if Auto Ref was turned off. Do I have that correct?
Had never heard of the "gain staging" process, but it's great to learn these things here!!!
As it has been since day 1, the presentation of the music is crystal clear. I'm not sure I'm hearing any substantial difference (65 yr. old ears) between how I had things set a few days and now, but I'm trusting the science that I've got things pretty close to being optimized. I could certainly get the RME down to the 0 level by dialing back the amp volume to a lower position, but I guess that's part of the gain staging "dance".
RP,
It seems like you have things Optimized (or at least Well in Hand) in your set-up. Nice Work!!!
Enjoy the Music! Just let the ADI-2 do the heavy lifting, so that your Focus is on which Recording to play next!!
Good Job! Thanks for your inputs.
Edit: In my System, the ADI-2 is the ENTIRE front end. Nothing between it, and my Active Pro Monitors. For Me? Less is Better!
Curt
Hello.
adi has several dbu's.
Which dbu is the best?
Hello.
adi has several dbu's.
Which dbu is the best?
Hi!
If there was really an unique answer to that question, you would'nt have the choice on the unit...
Like the different gears in a car: several of them in each car, which one is the best? 
It depends on your set up. Please read this thread and the manual (p. 62 for example), you will find your answer
N00b,
Thanks for the advice.
I found the answer.
Cake, You've found the Answer. What might that be?
I'm hoping you've discovered "Auto-Ref" because that makes Life quite Simple!
Auto-Ref, and Dynamic Loudness...Two Features that you simply cannot be without. Genius!!
Curt
Cake, You've found the Answer. What might that be?
I'm hoping you've discovered "Auto-Ref" because that makes Life quite Simple!
Auto-Ref, and Dynamic Loudness...Two Features that you simply cannot be without. Genius!!
Curt
It depends on your use. My ADI is connected to my integrated amp, Auto-Ref is disabled and I use a fix and locked level (0 dB @ +1 dBu). I handle the volume and the loudness on my amp.
I'm expecting soon monitors to replace my hifi setup, I will handle volume on the ADI and then activate the Auto-Ref feature.
Curt962,
Thank you for your advice. I refer to your post before.
However, "Auto-Ref" has changed to match the volume.
So I was not sure how much -db attenuator to buy.
So I tried to give up "Auto-Ref" to make it easier.
So I asked this post and found that there was information in the manual.
And in rme's manual, "Auto-Ref" looks good.
So I gave up the calculations, concluded that I just spent money and ordered several dB attenuators.
Cake,
Sounds Good! I'm almost 57, and might not have time for calculations, so I let RME do all the Math. That, and -20db Pads worked Super.
Good Luck to You!
Curt
Cake, Captain, RP, Devante, et al...
How's everyone doing with their Gain-Staging Homework?
It's fun to check back, and see who has enjoyed the greatest number of recordings since...
Curt
Curt962,
Sorry.
I do not record. It is just a hi-fi user.
I'm locked in and auto loudness is doing its job properly
Yeah...set the auto reference after fiddling around with the settings and found that to be all I need at the moment. No complaints. I have it connected to a Wyred 4 Sound STP pre-amp (which I also have my turntable connected to via a Schiit Mani phono pre-amp) which is connected to the ST-1000 mkII to Venere 3.0 speakers. I'm in my happy place when this is up and running.
I was wondering if there is anyone who uses a dedicated music streamer/network device like bluesound or cambridge audio connected to the ADI-2? I really like the Roon service I had on trial for a bit and will try Aurivanna (or however you spell it) next. This is all done via my chromecast audio but I fear it is a bottleneck. Still learning here folks.
It seems as though a Majority of this Group are doing well!! Enjoy some Music all!
Devante,
I'm using my Antique SBT with EDO (enhanced digital ouput) via USB as my Sole Input on the ADI-2 DAC. I've never been happier (Audio Wise)
Streaming Devices are truly the Future!!
Really...I have my own rather large music collection, plus have pushbutton access to Podcasts, Local or World Radio when my ideas on what to play next simply run out.
Maybe I'm in the Mood for WDR 2, or my Wife wants her favorite London Pop Station...the Choices are endless
Let's be honest, and agree that dropping in on a Streaming Radio Broadcast is sometimes a welcome Respite from our Audiophile Cocoons. Enjoy the Show Host, and the Program, etc. Sample Rates be damned. It keeps us Sane.
Further, Services like Tidal are Wonderful for Music Discovery. Why Buy when you can Rent?
Good Luck, and Have Fun!
Curt
Hi all.
I'm happy new owner of masterpiece ADI-2 DAC, and this Forum user. I am hi-fi user only. Stil completing my knowledge and discovering how clever this little beast is
@devante1977 I'm using ADI coupled (coax) with Bluesound Node 2i and Roksan K3 integrated amplifier where K3 works as power amp, ADI as preamp. -I found it better for me. The sound is crystall clear and I just can't praise it enough. Fabulous set to enjoy CD or hi-res music streamed from services!!!
Is there any benefit to adding these attenuators to my signal if I'm listening around -25 on the RME? My setup is RME adi-2 DAC -> Parasound A23 -> KEF LS50. What's the benefit of running the RME (preamp in my case) at +/- 0 vs how it is now -25? I do use the Dynamic Loudness feature.
Is there any benefit to adding these attenuators to my signal if I'm listening around -25 on the RME? My setup is RME adi-2 DAC -> Parasound A23 -> KEF LS50. What's the benefit of running the RME (preamp in my case) at +/- 0 vs how it is now -25? I do use the Dynamic Loudness feature.
Are you using AutoRef Level? In this case, the DAC's reference output level would be matched optimally to the volume setting and loudness boosts.
The Dynamic Loudness only changes the signal with the volume below 0 dB and the maximum boosts can be set no higher than at -20 dB on the volume control. If you use 20 dB attenuators, you will only have around 5 dB more headroom before the DAC overloads. Thus you cannot turn the volume up much beyond how you suggest you currently have it and the Loudness boosts desired may not be available either.
I suggest you determine the highest peak level you would ever want to listen to and find the corresponding output level of the DAC. This will tell you how much attenuation of the DAC's output you need.
Unless the DAC's output level is fixed too high or the DAC's self-noise is audible, there is no need for external attenuation. The internal volume control is more than good enough.
Would someone care to help me set up the ADI-2 DAC to my new Cayin IHA-6 headphone amp?
My goal is to set a decent volume on the iHA-6 volume knob so that I can control the main volume of the music via the remote of the ADI-2 DAC. Or is that completely wrong to do?
In my tinkering... I guess I was somewhat successful in using the auto ref level of the RME... but I'm not really sure where the volume knob should be on the iHA-6. I am probably wrong with the process I am using... So any help would be greatly appreciated.
These are the specs of the amp:
Power Rating Single-Ended Headphone:
1100mW+1100mW (High Current, RMS,RL=32Ω)
2200mW+2200mW (Low Current, RMS,RL=32Ω)
Balanced Headphone:
5000mW+5000mW (High Current, RMS,RL=32Ω)
7000mW+7000mW (Low Current, RMS,RL=32Ω)
Frequency Respond 10Hz~80kHz (-0.5dB)
THD+N ≤0.02%(1kHz, RL=32Ω)
S/N Single-Ended Headphone : ≥105dB (A weighted)
Balanced Headphone : ≥110dB (A weighted)
Input Sensitivity 620mV（High Current, High Gain）
Headphone Output 6.35mm TRS x 2
Dual 3pins XLR (Balanced)
4 pins XLR (Balanced)
Max. Power
Consumption
30W
Thanks,
John
I doubt that the additional headphone amp will bring you any more value in terms of sound.
In a review I read that they claim to have kind of warm tube sound, but then this device is a colorizing device
which does not really deliver the original signal in a transparent way.
This is then not a transparent reference quality, this would be something like a warm washed sound.
If this is ok for you ... but for what purpose do you require the ADI-2 DAC then ? For the USB / transport part ?
To answer your question .. dunno .. I didnt find any technical information on the vendor page. Not very professional.
I looked here: https://cayin.com/produkt/iha-6/
I would say .. Simply activate auto ref level and then try -20, -10 -0 dB. If the sound is still well, then fine.
After years of using a RME Multiface II in my recording studio (it's still working perfectly), I found out about the ADI-2, purchased it and added it to my living room. Early days, still figuring out parts of the manual, but I love what I'm hearing so far! Even my wife noticed the difference. I'm currently using it with my old Squeezebox Touch, Denon PMA 1500AE integrated amplifier (line in CD, using the Denon pre, RME set to fixed volume), but after consulting the manual I found out there's a P.DIRECT option, which bypasses the pre. The specs of this input are:
Input Sensitivity/Input Impedance:
P. DIRECT: 0.84 V/47 kΩ/kohms
Amplification factor: 29 dB
I have Rothwell attenuators (both -10 and -20) laying around, and I'm contemplating switching to using the ADI2 as pre and the Denon as power amp. I have a feeling I would make most out of the ADI2 this way (loudness function mostly). Now I'm trying to figure out whether I need them. I'm more of a musican/recording artist/music lover than an audiophile so I have trouble doing the math user 'integra' did a few posts above. Should I just try auto ref, turn off fixed volume, without attenuators and see whether I like it?
Just tried it. Without attenuators, around -50 was a normal listening volume. With the -20 attenuators I got this to -30 (at -5dBu, automatically chosen by auto ref), which seems appropriate attenuation.
(after listening for a few hours)
Oh yes...this is great. Looooooooove the volume control, so much more precise. The RME pre seems to sound a bit more open and clear as well (switched back and forth a few times), and the loudness function is indeed very nice.
Trojka,
Sorry. Really late response to your nice Post, but GOOD!! It seems that you are enjoying your ADI-2 immensely, and that was the whole idea! Great!!!
Your experiences seem so much like My Wife's and Mine....the Sounds are sometimes so eerily REAL! (re: The King's Singers. "Stille Nacht")
Josef Mohr, und Franz Grüber would be delighted!!
At our House, the Audio holds a High Place! Never more so than at Christmas Time when all my finest Christmas Choral/Vocal Ensemble recordings take Center Stage. I SO look forward to my new ADI-2 working it's Crystalline Magic on that Material!!!
All the Best Trojka!!
Curt
Can someone please recommend how to ideally set input gain level of Benchmark amplifier AHB2 for (balanced) connection to ADI-2 DAC?
The AHB2 has three gain levels Low-Gain = 22 dBu (9.8 Vrms), Mid-Gain = 14.2 dBu (4 Vrms), High-Gain = 8.2 dBu (2 Vrms). Benchmark recommends to use the lowest gain level possible.
However, with the low-gain setting the max volume achieved with ADI-2 near 0 dbFS is a little bit low. With the AHB2 set to mid-gain volume is ample, but with auto ref on the 19 dBu output level of the ADI-2 exceeds the 14.2 dBu input level of the AHB2.
Thank you,
Sebastian
RME User Forum → ADI-2 & 2/4 Pro series, ADI-2 DAC series → ADI-2 DAC: settings with power amp
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