Re: Distorted audio, bit crushed sound > Mojave / Mac mini 2018

freeze the same way...there is no problem connecting the card to one USB of the mac mini. Testing/working thru mac USB with 10.14.3 now...

102

Re: Distorted audio, bit crushed sound > Mojave / Mac mini 2018

Weird, i just got some mini dropouts on FireFace 400 on the Mini (first time in three weeks), I immediately switched to MacBook 13" running 10.14.3, opened the exact same project and tried to replicate it and it works fine.

Will update the Mini to see if it goes away.

Re: Distorted audio, bit crushed sound > Mojave / Mac mini 2018

Nothing has changed on my Mac Mini and Mac OS 10.14.3.

Re: Distorted audio, bit crushed sound > Mojave / Mac mini 2018

Nothing has changed on my MacBook Pro 2018 neither. Still have dropouts while recording at small buffersizes (128 samples downwards). The only difference I could see was that instead of one core had a spike now two cores are spiking. Great work!

105 (edited by ploki 2019-01-23 19:39:18)

Re: Distorted audio, bit crushed sound > Mojave / Mac mini 2018

That sounds terrible, I have a concert next week and i'm afraid to use the 2018 13" with FireFace (because of the 13", not the fireface), it's giving me anxiety

edit:
on the mini, even if I load all cores max with yes - dev/null and playback audio in logic at 128samples/buffer, it seems to play without glitches. Jesus this is giving me so much anxiety

106

Re: Distorted audio, bit crushed sound > Mojave / Mac mini 2018

ubeyaudio wrote:

Mac mini 2018 with 802 here. I purchased caldigit hub and connected by USB to th3. All seems to be ok at 44.1 but don´t work at 88.2khz (no problem with the same project with core audio and mac mini speaker...). If i connect the 802 direct to mac usb inputs works ok...maybe i´ve to return the caldigit and test firewire to th3 dongle.

There is no problem if i connect the 802 direct to mac usb, only thru caldigit...

We were able to reproduce this and think we got it fixed. I will upload a new driver this evening (LA time) that addresses a hardware specific problem of the ASMedia USB chips used in the CalDigit.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: Distorted audio, bit crushed sound > Mojave / Mac mini 2018

MC wrote:
ubeyaudio wrote:

Mac mini 2018 with 802 here. I purchased caldigit hub and connected by USB to th3. All seems to be ok at 44.1 but don´t work at 88.2khz (no problem with the same project with core audio and mac mini speaker...). If i connect the 802 direct to mac usb inputs works ok...maybe i´ve to return the caldigit and test firewire to th3 dongle.

There is no problem if i connect the 802 direct to mac usb, only thru caldigit...

We were able to reproduce this and think we got it fixed. I will upload a new driver this evening (LA time) that addresses a hardware specific problem of the ASMedia USB chips used in the CalDigit.

Yeah, thanks! By the way, i had been working for two days with 802 direct to a mac mini 2018 (direct USB, no hub) with 10.14.3 and Pro Tools and i can´t hear dropouts. Seems to be ok and stable for me...maybe is only matter of time hear the errors, or the usb problem is solved or not all the systems have it? anyone running 802 ok direct to usb?

108

Re: Distorted audio, bit crushed sound > Mojave / Mac mini 2018

The problem is not solved in 10.14.3.

Unfortunately we found that the UFX needs a special treatment in the upcoming driver, which is not a big problem, but delays its release to tomorrow. Sorry.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: Distorted audio, bit crushed sound > Mojave / Mac mini 2018

I am also still getting the odd dropout and click whislt rendering with the caldigit and digiface usb, will this also be resolved with new driver?

My post got lost there.

Also am still on 14.2 is 14.3 worth it for now?

www.yila.co.uk

110

Re: Distorted audio, bit crushed sound > Mojave / Mac mini 2018

Here is driver 3.15 beta 1 which includes workarounds for the ASMedia USB chip found in the CalDigit Thunderbolt 3 to USB adapter, to work correctly in high bandwidth mode (higher I/O counts and/or higher sample rates). AFAIR there had been iMacs using this chip (years ago), so the driver might help there as well.

I would like to point out two things:

- while the driver should do no harm it is not yet tested very thoroughly. Please report back if something acts strangely.

- the package already includes TotalMix FX 1.6 b1. Information to this update will be released separately next week.

Download:

https://archiv.rme-audio.de/download/dr … 5_b1_3.zip

Edit: link updated

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: Distorted audio, bit crushed sound > Mojave / Mac mini 2018

installed.

Regular clicks and pops, at 64 buffer size, but CPU at 10% max while monitoring.

I have a high channel count > 32 channels in and out..

www.yila.co.uk

112

Re: Distorted audio, bit crushed sound > Mojave / Mac mini 2018

Well, then set it to 128...

BTW, how do you get more than 32 channels with one Digiface USB?

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: Distorted audio, bit crushed sound > Mojave / Mac mini 2018

MC wrote:

Here is driver 3.15 beta 1 which includes workarounds for the ASMedia USB chip found in the CalDigit Thunderbolt 3 to USB adapter, to work correctly in high bandwidth mode (higher I/O counts and/or higher sample rates). AFAIR there had been iMacs using this chip (years ago), so the driver might help there as well.

I would like to point out two things:

- while the driver should do no harm it is not yet tested very thoroughly. Please report back if something acts strangely.

- the package already includes TotalMix FX 1.6 b1. Information to this update will be released separately next week.

Download:

https://archiv.rme-audio.de/download/dr … _315b1.zip

I confirm that sound plays now when UCX sample rate is set to 192kHz and connected to the CalDigit hub.

Re: Distorted audio, bit crushed sound > Mojave / Mac mini 2018

The point is that before this update 64buffer size was ok, or clicking was less aggressive, now seems to be rather loud intermittent pops and bangs. Is there anyway other to test if it's working ok?

Sorry meant = not > so channel count is 32 in and out.

www.yila.co.uk

115

Re: Distorted audio, bit crushed sound > Mojave / Mac mini 2018

Re-install the former driver to verify. We are not aware of changes that would make driver 3.15 generate louder 'pops and bangs'. BTW, if you are not even sure if 64 really worked correctly before, what are we discussing here? You need to set 128 anyway for reliable, real-world operation on your Mac.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: Distorted audio, bit crushed sound > Mojave / Mac mini 2018

I will try it

Yesterday I even got some extreme dropouts and then a loud click when streaming audio from a webpage.

I've used 64 buffer size a lot, even on my old laptop and I'm pretty sure that when I got this new machine I was running 64 ok without errors to see how it performed, now there's always errors even with low track count, I will check and bring back some more solid findings.

www.yila.co.uk

117 (edited by ubeyaudio 2019-01-29 15:49:36)

Re: Distorted audio, bit crushed sound > Mojave / Mac mini 2018

Hi, there is any alternative (tested) to caldigit th3? i´m sure mine is defective couse disconnects all connected peripherals by lightly touching the rear cable of the hub, and now it's no longer available on amazon EU.  Thanks. On the other hand, the new driver  works perfect at 88.2.

Re: Distorted audio, bit crushed sound > Mojave / Mac mini 2018

I am using Mac Book Pro 2018 32 GB Ram and Mojave 10.14.3
RME UFX II used as Audio Interface
And the Thunderbolt Hub from CalDigit

I downloaded the new driver here https://archiv.rme-audio.de/download/driver … _315b1.zip

Did a test with 48kHz and 128 Samples Buffer
I got audio glitches

Then I set to 192 Samples Buffer, again Audio glitches.

Maybe I did a mistake in using the CalDigit Hub?
What could be wrong?

Re: Distorted audio, bit crushed sound > Mojave / Mac mini 2018

MC wrote:

Re-install the former driver to verify. We are not aware of changes that would make driver 3.15 generate louder 'pops and bangs'. BTW, if you are not even sure if 64 really worked correctly before, what are we discussing here? You need to set 128 anyway for reliable, real-world operation on your Mac.

Currently on a session recording 21 channels into Reaper on a 10.14.3 2018 MBP through a MADIface Pro via Caldigit at 44.1k.

Very frustrating to catch a glitch on a good take this morning despite a sample size of 1024 and CPU load of <6%

Currently on 3.14 but I’m too nervous to upgrade to 3.15 mid session as this crashed our Mac Pro on Monday which wouldn’t restart. However, would the new driver likely solve the glitches?

Eastwood Records
www.eastwoodrecords.co.uk

120 (edited by UNeumann 2019-01-31 11:56:35)

Re: Distorted audio, bit crushed sound > Mojave / Mac mini 2018

Die i-tec Thunderbolt 3 Docking Station behebt bei mir das Problem. Keine Knackser/Aussetzer mehr.

https://i-tec.cz/de/produkt/tb3hdmidock-3/

Verwendete Geräte: Mac Mini 2018, rme ADI-2 DAC.

Ich hätte mir nie träumen lassen, dass ich mal für 220 € einen (funktionierenden) USB 2.0-Anschluss an einem Gerät nachrüsten würde.

121

Re: Distorted audio, bit crushed sound > Mojave / Mac mini 2018

mjfe87 wrote:

Currently on a session recording 21 channels into Reaper on a 10.14.3 2018 MBP through a MADIface Pro via Caldigit at 44.1k.

Very frustrating to catch a glitch on a good take this morning despite a sample size of 1024 and CPU load of <6%

Currently on 3.14 but I’m too nervous to upgrade to 3.15 mid session as this crashed our Mac Pro on Monday which wouldn’t restart. However, would the new driver likely solve the glitches?

Current version is here:

https://archiv.rme-audio.de/download/dr … 5_b1_3.zip

Not sure how a simple driver install can prevent your Mac from booting, but it might help to disconnect the audio interface after running the driver installer and  before re-booting, and connect again after mac OS is up.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: Distorted audio, bit crushed sound > Mojave / Mac mini 2018

Stayed on same driver, but re-plugged cal digit.. tried different port.

Aggressive quite sporadic large pops still, had on a reamping session yesterday so it was very obvious.. at high buffer 512, using channels 31 / 32 in a not very particularly large session

Is it possible this other issue with power reported in the other thread is an issue, there's no other way to power the digiface.

When audio is struggling at low buffer, graphics will effect it heavily, so for example scrolling through the session visually will create lots of clicks and if using any plugins with heavy graphics display.

www.yila.co.uk

123

Re: Distorted audio, bit crushed sound > Mojave / Mac mini 2018

No, that sounds like other issues. Check the logs to see what error messages you get. Most probably something like this:

standard    18:01:05.027413 +0100    GigPerformer3    HALC_ProxyIOContext.cpp:1068:IOWorkLoop:  HALC_ProxyIOContext::IOWorkLoop: skipping cycle due to overload

standard    18:01:05.035574 +0100    coreaudiod    HALS_OverloadMessage.cpp:165:perform:  Audio IO Overload inputs: 'de_RME_driver_USBAudioEngine:45

Or similar. Maybe you run into thermic problems as reported by many websites with that model? Also graphics affecting audio is a very different topic and points to either the hardware architecture as such or the current graphics drivers.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: Distorted audio, bit crushed sound > Mojave / Mac mini 2018

MC wrote:

Here is driver 3.15 beta 1 which includes workarounds for the ASMedia USB chip found in the CalDigit Thunderbolt 3 to USB adapter, to work correctly in high bandwidth mode (higher I/O counts and/or higher sample rates).

Thanks MC.  Are you able to confirm what sort of I/O counts we're talking about?  Would this driver likely have fixed the glitch I had last week recording 21 channels at 44.1k?

Eastwood Records
www.eastwoodrecords.co.uk

Re: Distorted audio, bit crushed sound > Mojave / Mac mini 2018

Will check logs, but do I need to hear an error then find the log?

No thermal throttling here, only heard the fans once on a hefty render.

www.yila.co.uk

Re: Distorted audio, bit crushed sound > Mojave / Mac mini 2018

iamyila wrote:

Will check logs, but do I need to hear an error then find the log?

No. Errors are written to the logs when they occur. Logs will be deleted by the system when doing maintenance. I think on a monthly basis?

127 (edited by relivethis 2019-02-05 19:57:10)

Re: Distorted audio, bit crushed sound > Mojave / Mac mini 2018

Hi,

May I ask if this does affect only USB interfaces or Firewire as well?
Basically is it possible to use a Mac with t2 chip (like 2018 Mac mini) with a Fireface 800 or do you get audio glitches there as well?

Thank you!

Re: Distorted audio, bit crushed sound > Mojave / Mac mini 2018

relivethis wrote:

Hi,

May I ask if this does affect only USB interfaces or Firewire as well?
Basically is it possible to use a Mac with t2 chip (like 2018 Mac mini) with a Fireface 800 or do you get audio glitches there as well?

Thank you!

RME’s latest word on the matter (which applies to 2018 MBP’s too):

https://www.forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopi … 66#p136666

In short FireWire and USB 3 is fine with genuine Apple dongles. USB 2 requires a Thunderbolt 3 hub + Driver 3.15 to work on the latest Macs.

No one has mentioned the 12” Macbook or new 2018 MB Air yet.

Out of interest does disabling the timed daemon as follows definitely not work?

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/showpos … stcount=52

Eastwood Records
www.eastwoodrecords.co.uk

129 (edited by nebulae 2019-02-07 18:37:41)

Re: Distorted audio, bit crushed sound > Mojave / Mac mini 2018

Just wanted to offer some feedback that I had to send the Caldigit back. The intermittent dropouts with a direct USB2 connection did stop with the Caldigit, but then I had a couple of other issues: 1) When the computer woke from sleep, USB was not working until I unplugged and replugged the Caldigit. 2) Very rarely, audio would stop completely, even though Ableton kept on going...meaning the computer thought the interface was connected, but no audio came out of the interface.

I suspect both of these issues are related to the fact that the Caldigit is bus-powered. I am investigating powered thunderbolt 3 hubs to see if that solves the problem. Here's a Cable Matters hub that's not as expensive as the bigger hubs, and I'm hoping that powered connection will eliminate the last of these nagging issues: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01DYFHYNS - I will report back.

If anyone else can share other hubs that have worked, that would be great. Thanks.

PS - it still blows my mind that Apple hasn't owned or resolved this issue. There is no USB2 interface (which accounts for most interfaces in audio these days) that will work with the 2016-onward Macbook Pros. WOW.

Abid Hussain, AKA Nebulae
Ableton Certified Trainer

130 (edited by dsreyes1014 2019-02-08 00:52:54)

Re: Distorted audio, bit crushed sound > Mojave / Mac mini 2018

I'm on a 2018 Mac Mini I7 on 10.14.3 with a MADIFace Pro with latest stable driver connected to one of it's USB A ports and I'm not seeing any of this behavior.  Could it be I'm not running more than 4 channels?  I'm not seeing any dropouts in Console either.

Re: Distorted audio, bit crushed sound > Mojave / Mac mini 2018

In regards to my last post I am seeing dropouts in Console.  After recording a stereo track for maybe 15-20 minutes in Logic Pro 10.4.4 it glitches and stops recording completely which renders it useless.  That’s really sad to spend $1099 on a computer and $1199 on an interface for it not to work and have these kinds issues.  To have to spend another $150 for a TB3 hub kind of makes me sick to my stomach after switching over from the Linux audio ecosystem which doesn’t compare to what Apple offers to pros.  This doesn’t happen on self built hackintosh Mojave so I know it’s the Mini.

132 (edited by ramses 2019-02-09 15:33:57)

Re: Distorted audio, bit crushed sound > Mojave / Mac mini 2018

dsreyes1014 wrote:

In regards to my last post I am seeing dropouts in Console.  After recording a stereo track for maybe 15-20 minutes in Logic Pro 10.4.4 it glitches and stops recording completely which renders it useless.  That’s really sad to spend $1099 on a computer and $1199 on an interface for it not to work and have these kinds issues.  To have to spend another $150 for a TB3 hub kind of makes me sick to my stomach after switching over from the Linux audio ecosystem which doesn’t compare to what Apple offers to pros.  This doesn’t happen on self built hackintosh Mojave so I know it’s the Mini.

Sorry, the interface is ok, Apple has issues.
For $1099 you could have got a better Desktop computer which you can even modify/expand over time.
https://www.da-x.de/de/audio-computer/a … steme.html

There are even pre-configured and tested Windows Laptop availabe that work with audio.
https://www.da-x.de/de/audio-computer/a … books.html

And these you can even expand (Laptops of course only in a limited way), where with Apple
nearly everything is glued (closed box & expensive prices for commodity articles).

BR
Ramses
X10SRi-F, Win7 Prof, Cubase 9.5, UFX+, Octamic XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS BE/DAC, RayDAT, ARC USB

Re: Distorted audio, bit crushed sound > Mojave / Mac mini 2018

ramses wrote:

Sorry, the interface is ok, Apple has issues.
For $1099 you could have got a better Desktop computer which you can even modify/expand over time.
https://www.da-x.de/de/audio-computer/a … steme.html

There are even pre-configured and tested Windows Laptop availabe that work with audio.
https://www.da-x.de/de/audio-computer/a … books.html

The interface is awesome!!!  I started using Linux because of headaches I had with Windows after 10 years of use.  Won't go back to that again.  I actually really love the Mac mini except it has this issue with the USB2 controller.  I'm literally on the phone with them now producing a ticket with error logs provided to them per their request.  So fingers crossed.

Re: Distorted audio, bit crushed sound > Mojave / Mac mini 2018

So getting off the phone just now with a Senior Advisor in the pro applications department specifically for Logic Pro.  I was told that the USB-A ports were not designed for audio data but only for charging devices.  So audio was not intended when they designed and included these ports on the 2018 Mac Mini which is why we're having these issues.  This only pertains to USB2 on the 2018 Mac Mini.  USB3 through the USB-C ports should work fine which means using what MC referred to which is the TB3 hub/dock.  He told me during his training on hardware he remembered learning about this.  He also recommended to use a hub or a dongle in particular the same one that MC referenced here on this thread.  So not RME at all guys.  Sounds like it's by Apple's design that this happens.  Thanks to the guys at RME in the meantime working hard to get it to work!

Re: Distorted audio, bit crushed sound > Mojave / Mac mini 2018

nebulae wrote:

Here's a Cable Matters hub that's not as expensive as the bigger hubs, and I'm hoping that powered connection will eliminate the last of these nagging issues: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01DYFHYNS - I will report back.

I am sad to report that the Cable Matters hub is unusable. When you plug in your USB2.0 device, you will hear a high pitched electronic noise - just put your ears to your monitors and it's there. This is the same noise I used to hear back in the PC laptop days when you had grounding issues.

This is getting so frustrating. I will now try yet another Hub. Sigh.

Abid Hussain, AKA Nebulae
Ableton Certified Trainer

136 (edited by nebulae 2019-02-09 18:39:24)

Re: Distorted audio, bit crushed sound > Mojave / Mac mini 2018

nebulae wrote:
nebulae wrote:

Here's a Cable Matters hub that's not as expensive as the bigger hubs, and I'm hoping that powered connection will eliminate the last of these nagging issues: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01DYFHYNS - I will report back.

I am sad to report that the Cable Matters hub is unusable. When you plug in your USB2.0 device, you will hear a high pitched electronic noise - just put your ears to your monitors and it's there. This is the same noise I used to hear back in the PC laptop days when you had grounding issues.

This is getting so frustrating. I will now try yet another Hub. Sigh.

Writing this post made me remember what I used to have to do with PC laptop power bricks that were not property grounded. I either had to use a three-prong to two-prong adapter (which can be somewhat dangerous) or use this little adapter called the Hum X by EBTech - https://www.amazon.com/Ebtech-Hum-Groun … B0002E4YI8 - I dug up my old Hum X and this removed the electronic hum!

It's kind of crazy to think of a modern Mac causing issues that we experienced with cheap PCs from years back. I guess in this case, it's Cable Matters' fault for using a cheap power brick with grounding issues, but at least this works for now. I will report back.

Note, I'm writing these posts for people who are experiencing these issues with any USB2.0 device, since RME is the only company with the balls to report it to this degree. If I'm annoying you guys, I'll stop reporting, no hard feelings. But I have pointed many people to this thread, as this is the only place in the Internet with a real answer.

Abid Hussain, AKA Nebulae
Ableton Certified Trainer

Re: Distorted audio, bit crushed sound > Mojave / Mac mini 2018

dsreyes1014 wrote:

So getting off the phone just now with a Senior Advisor in the pro applications department specifically for Logic Pro.  I was told that the USB-A ports were not designed for audio data but only for charging devices.  So audio was not intended when they designed and included these ports on the 2018 Mac Mini which is why we're having these issues.  This only pertains to USB2 on the 2018 Mac Mini.  USB3 through the USB-C ports should work fine which means using what MC referred to which is the TB3 hub/dock.  He told me during his training on hardware he remembered learning about this.  He also recommended to use a hub or a dongle in particular the same one that MC referenced here on this thread.  So not RME at all guys.  Sounds like it's by Apple's design that this happens.  Thanks to the guys at RME in the meantime working hard to get it to work!

Good to hear a candid response from Apple.

However, according to your advisor USB 2 over USB-C should also work but it doesn’t, only USB 3.

Also USB-A on previous Macs was working fine for 10+ years so why did they change it?

Eastwood Records
www.eastwoodrecords.co.uk

Re: Distorted audio, bit crushed sound > Mojave / Mac mini 2018

mjfe87 wrote:
dsreyes1014 wrote:

So getting off the phone just now with a Senior Advisor in the pro applications department specifically for Logic Pro.  I was told that the USB-A ports were not designed for audio data but only for charging devices.  So audio was not intended when they designed and included these ports on the 2018 Mac Mini which is why we're having these issues.  This only pertains to USB2 on the 2018 Mac Mini.  USB3 through the USB-C ports should work fine which means using what MC referred to which is the TB3 hub/dock.  He told me during his training on hardware he remembered learning about this.  He also recommended to use a hub or a dongle in particular the same one that MC referenced here on this thread.  So not RME at all guys.  Sounds like it's by Apple's design that this happens.  Thanks to the guys at RME in the meantime working hard to get it to work!

Good to hear a candid response from Apple.

However, according to your advisor USB 2 over USB-C should also work but it doesn’t, only USB 3.

Also USB-A on previous Macs was working fine for 10+ years so why did they change it?

Apples response doesn't sound valid. Since when does an USB port need to be designed for audio?
USB only needs to be compliant to certain standards and it should support a couple of transport modes.
By defining "this USB is not for audio" they close the doors and say "your problem guy".
I see absolutely no positive message in this answer from Apple.

BR
Ramses
X10SRi-F, Win7 Prof, Cubase 9.5, UFX+, Octamic XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS BE/DAC, RayDAT, ARC USB

139

Re: Distorted audio, bit crushed sound > Mojave / Mac mini 2018

+1

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: Distorted audio, bit crushed sound > Mojave / Mac mini 2018

ramses wrote:

Apples response doesn't sound valid. Since when does an USB port need to be designed for audio?
USB only needs to be compliant to certain standards and it should support a couple of transport modes.
By defining "this USB is not for audio" they close the doors and say "your problem guy".
I see absolutely no positive message in this answer from Apple.

Take it for what's it's worth I guess.  Everyone is different.  I'm glad we got something from both sides at least.  I did purchase this miniDock from Cable matters https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B078M … &psc=1 and everything is working as it should for me here.  Recorded over 60 minutes without any glitches or stoppages in Logic Pro.  In System Information it does come up under the Thunderbolt section like MC explained and the MADIFace Pro is connected via USB3 under the USB section.

141 (edited by ramses 2019-02-10 10:29:05)

Re: Distorted audio, bit crushed sound > Mojave / Mac mini 2018

dsreyes1014 wrote:
ramses wrote:

Apples response doesn't sound valid. Since when does an USB port need to be designed for audio?
USB only needs to be compliant to certain standards and it should support a couple of transport modes.
By defining "this USB is not for audio" they close the doors and say "your problem guy".
I see absolutely no positive message in this answer from Apple.

Take it for what's it's worth I guess.  Everyone is different.  I'm glad we got something from both sides at least.

What are you so happy about? What did you get from Apple apart from a statement which is technically wrong and with which Apple simply tries to get the matter out of the world freely according to the motto "rather an end with horror than a horror without end". At the end of the day, it's just internal damage control at Apple, but the customer gets nothing at all.

A clever move, because many Apple owners are still very much behind Apple and apparently believe such statements.

But you could also use such a factually wrong statement to simply return the defective device and have the money refunded, be it by way of goodwill or legal action, or perhaps to get a device on which you don't have the problems on the hardware side, at least.

But you need also to take care to get HW that runs perfectly on "High Sierra", because in "Mojave" there are still bugs in the USB stack and OS services, that prevent uninterrupted audio.

I'd expect some solutions from Apple, they've been doing this for more than half a year now and are still claiming that it's due to 3rd party devices/drivers, although it's already proven that the problems also happen with their own drivers and DAW program (i.e. Logic) when running devices in Class Compliant mode, i.e. without RME drivers. And it is not only RME customers who have these problems, the list of companies is already considerably long.

BR
Ramses
X10SRi-F, Win7 Prof, Cubase 9.5, UFX+, Octamic XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS BE/DAC, RayDAT, ARC USB

Re: Distorted audio, bit crushed sound > Mojave / Mac mini 2018

ramses wrote:
dsreyes1014 wrote:
ramses wrote:

Apples response doesn't sound valid. Since when does an USB port need to be designed for audio?
USB only needs to be compliant to certain standards and it should support a couple of transport modes.
By defining "this USB is not for audio" they close the doors and say "your problem guy".
I see absolutely no positive message in this answer from Apple.

Take it for what's it's worth I guess.  Everyone is different.  I'm glad we got something from both sides at least.

What are you so happy about? What did you get from Apple apart from a statement which is technically wrong and with which Apple simply tries to get the matter out of the world freely according to the motto "rather an end with horror than a horror without end". At the end of the day, it's just internal damage control at Apple, but the customer gets nothing at all.

A clever move, because many Apple owners are still very much behind Apple and apparently believe such statements.

But you could also use such a factually wrong statement to simply return the defective device and have the money refunded, be it by way of goodwill or legal action, or perhaps to get a device on which you don't have the problems on the hardware side, at least.

But you need also to take care to get HW that runs perfectly on "High Sierra", because in "Mojave" there are still bugs in the USB stack and OS services, that prevent uninterrupted audio.

I'd expect some solutions from Apple, they've been doing this for more than half a year now and are still claiming that it's due to 3rd party devices/drivers, although it's already proven that the problems also happen with their own drivers and DAW program (i.e. Logic) when running devices in Class Compliant mode, i.e. without RME drivers. And it is not only RME customers who have these problems, the list of companies is already considerably long.

Dude relax.  It's ok.  Apple never told me RME is the problem in any way.  You're obviously not happy with Apple but my devices are working fine now with the Cable Matters miniDock.  My Mac Mini is not defective.  I've had these same kind of issues using PC and different combinations of hardware before so it happens.   I would say like I believe has been said before in this thread before buying any hardware we have to stay informed to avoid these pitfalls.  If PC works as an alternative then that's perfectly fine just not for me.  Hope this info helps the next person before deciding to purchase the hardware talked about here in this thread to see if it fits them.  Either way RME has done a ton to help users with these issues so thanks again guys.

143 (edited by ramses 2019-02-10 22:26:44)

Re: Distorted audio, bit crushed sound > Mojave / Mac mini 2018

Dude ? Relax ? How about just sticking to the facts without becoming personal in any way ?

Sorry, but what you're saying isn't right. Apple Support has told customers in all seriousness that these are problems with 3rd party devices. And this although Apple's own drivers also fail when connecting devices in Class Compliant mode.
Apple's comments that the USB interfaces on the new Macs are not intended for audio are also pure stalling tactics. These are absolute smoke bombs to appease customers who don't know better.
All I've said is that I see no reason to relax. Apple rejects everything. Both in terms of hardware and USB stack / Mojave. Nothing has changed for more than half a year.
I'll be curious to see what happens next. At the moment the customers are dependent on the previous operating system version, because Mojave is simply unusable for audio processing.
And in terms of HW .. the only solutions are at customers cost (Thunderbolt HW bays).

BR
Ramses
X10SRi-F, Win7 Prof, Cubase 9.5, UFX+, Octamic XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS BE/DAC, RayDAT, ARC USB

Re: Distorted audio, bit crushed sound > Mojave / Mac mini 2018

ramses wrote:

Dude ? Relax ? How about just sticking to the facts without becoming personal in any way ?

Sorry, but what you're saying isn't right. Apple Support has told customers in all seriousness that these are problems with 3rd party devices. And this although Apple's own drivers also fail when connecting devices in Class Compliant mode.
Apple's comments that the USB interfaces on the new Macs are not intended for audio are also pure stalling tactics. These are absolute smoke bombs to appease customers who don't know better.
All I've said is that I see no reason to relax. Apple rejects everything. Both in terms of hardware and USB stack / Mojave. Nothing has changed for more than half a year.
I'll be curious to see what happens next. At the moment the customers are dependent on the previous operating system version, because Mojave is simply unusable for audio processing.
And in terms of HW .. the only solutions are at customers cost (Thunderbolt HW bays).

Nothing personal here.  Sorry if you’re offended.  Facts for me is that now my setup works which RME helped me get to.  You’re probably right about bugs in Mojave but the problem in this thread is about “distorted audio, bit crushed audio > Mojave / Mac mini 2018” and so far on my Mac mini running Mojave and RME hardware the problem is solved with the workaround solution of a mini dock recommended by MC and Apple.

145 (edited by JL 2019-02-10 23:17:05)

Re: Distorted audio, bit crushed sound > Mojave / Mac mini 2018

Pc vs mac thing is so fundamentally retarded lets not go to that. In my opinion it's really interesting and good to get a confirmation from apple representative that they know about the problem, usb only for charging explanation is really stupid though, one can only guess if that's what is being taught to customer service for now is really to buy time to find a workaround or does it mean that they never will be able to fix the issue with current hw.

Anyway Ramses, is it really for sure that mojave won't work in pre 2018 macs properly? On my 2018 mbp i had high sierra first, then mojave and to me there was no difference in audio performance. With usb both os's glitch like crazy. Tb3-fw was the first workaround and it worked really well (only used it on high sierra though), now i have caldigit mini dock on mojave and is running great so far, i havent played gigs yet, only studio work but so far flawless on 4-5 sessions.

There was just a mojave update, i wonder if that helped anything audio related.

146 (edited by ramses 2019-02-10 23:47:59)

Re: Distorted audio, bit crushed sound > Mojave / Mac mini 2018

To dsreyes1014:
Wait a minute, please. This is not a PC vs Mac discussion. I don't like to put something like that in my mouth :-(
My comment (Posting #138) only referred to mjfe87's Posting 137 "Good to hear a candid response from Apple". I don't see that at all as positive as he or some others.
That's why I just wanted to explain that there are no USB ports that are not designed for audio. These are just chips with design flaws, nothing more.
Note also the "+" from Mr. Carstens in Posting #139.
If you'd understand that slowly, you'd realize that I just want to give you some information to be able to defend yourself  better.

And to JLs question
Mojave has several issues:
- USB stack (bad driver update, before it worked)
- programming issues of one or more services
But this is software and could be fixed by Apple (if they would want) but since over half a year they don't do.
So it's better to not upgrade to Mojave and to stay with High Sierra for the time being.
Or do it like suggested by MC, get a thunderbolt based dock with another (working) USB controller on board.

BR
Ramses
X10SRi-F, Win7 Prof, Cubase 9.5, UFX+, Octamic XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS BE/DAC, RayDAT, ARC USB

147 (edited by cyrano 2019-02-11 17:19:14)

Re: Distorted audio, bit crushed sound > Mojave / Mac mini 2018

dsreyes1014 wrote:

I was told that the USB-A ports were not designed for audio data but only for charging devices. So audio was not intended when they designed and included these ports on the 2018 Mac Mini which is why we're having these issues.

That's about the worst lie I have heard from a senior advisor. Think about it. How in heaven's name can a USB port be designed only for charging devices?

Apple seems to think all their customers must be idiots.

This only pertains to USB2 on the 2018 Mac Mini. USB3 through the USB-C ports should work fine which means using what MC referred to which is the TB3 hub/dock.  He told me during his training on hardware he remembered learning about this.  He also recommended to use a hub or a dongle in particular the same one that MC referenced here on this thread.  So not RME at all guys.  Sounds like it's by Apple's design that this happens.  Thanks to the guys at RME in the meantime working hard to get it to work!

The real reason is the T2 to USB bridge chip. That's an Apple hardware design and it doesn't seem to conform to the USB specs. It also seems an odd choice to let the T2 communicate with the outside world via USB. PCI seems a much more appropriate choice.

Anyhow, thanks for reporting back. Now the Mini is also off my buying list. Sad, being an Apple user since 1989, all that is left is the second hand market. Anything made after 2014 seems to be a pita.

Linux seems more and more attractive by the minute... big_smile

Re: Distorted audio, bit crushed sound > Mojave / Mac mini 2018

ramses wrote:

Apples response doesn't sound valid. Since when does an USB port need to be designed for audio?
USB only needs to be compliant to certain standards and it should support a couple of transport modes.

Are there international standards for computer ports? Do they specify a certain rate of continuous data transfer? And who enforces these standards?

Apple need to be held accountable but most audio users aren’t versed in international law, so it would help to understand the legal nature of the problem. This would lend weight to articles on the matter which should make Apple sit up and listen...

Eastwood Records
www.eastwoodrecords.co.uk

149 (edited by ramses 2019-02-11 19:57:52)

Re: Distorted audio, bit crushed sound > Mojave / Mac mini 2018

mjfe87 wrote:
ramses wrote:

Apples response doesn't sound valid. Since when does an USB port need to be designed for audio?
USB only needs to be compliant to certain standards and it should support a couple of transport modes.

Are there international standards for computer ports? Do they specify a certain rate of continuous data transfer? And who enforces these standards?

Apple need to be held accountable but most audio users aren’t versed in international law, so it would help to understand the legal nature of the problem. This would lend weight to articles on the matter which should make Apple sit up and listen...

USB can only work if hardware and drivers are based on the specification.
Ok there are certain chipsets known that do not work well, see handbook in terms of ASMedia, ..
But this is another thing it doesn't mean that there can only be ports there for charging but not for devices, in particular Audio devices.
Even more ridiculous .. USB is designed as multi-purpose interface so that you can connect different devices: phones, Microphones, Harddisks, Audio Interfaces, Bluetooth Adaper, etc etc ...

So ... it's complete nonsense what Apple says. If a device has a USB2 or USB3 port, then the interface-specific properties (different transfer modes, speeds) must also be adhered to. There are no USB ports that are only for charging. There are also no USB ports for audio. Recording interfaces use certain transfer modes, which the standard USB interface has to bring with it. Probably this should not even be called USB2 or USB3.

But you would have to google yourself for more details, I don't have the time.
There are lawyers that are specialized on computer stuff btw ...

Not sure what your personal aim here is .. maybe you 1st talk with your dealer whats possible.
Maybe you can return or replace with an older working device, etc ...
It's most likely anyway not worth the time to go to court, as this might take much time, potentially also money and this might be different in every country, as every country has different laws.

BR
Ramses
X10SRi-F, Win7 Prof, Cubase 9.5, UFX+, Octamic XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS BE/DAC, RayDAT, ARC USB

Re: Distorted audio, bit crushed sound > Mojave / Mac mini 2018

No you can't. It's an USB hub, not an thunderbolt 3 hub as needed.