This is the latest curve I have.
What do you guys think?
https://ibb.co/prCdxzf

Thank you very much. And thanks for the help. It sounds very nice.
I think I will leave it this way. It has just enough bass and very clean bass too.
Thanks for your generosity and help.
And happy listening to you too.

Sorry for lingering on.
But know that you helping people this way is wonderful.
I also wish you happy holidays. Till next time.

I live in Belgium.
I just tried my best to measure everything and try to eq as best as I can.
Tell me more about your mirror trick if you have the time. My stereo image has greatly benefited from the measurements and placement.

Hello, everyone! I'm new here, happy to have found a group that values great sound, math, and practicality. This is my current setup:

Mark Levinson #39 CD/DAC, #331 amplifier, NHT 3.3 speakers, Transparent Reference XL wiring. All were purchased in 1982 and have given me years of pleasure. I moved to Phoenix and have a much larger listening room than before. This is the floor plan (oops, the floor plan will be in the next post per forum settings).

This is a great thread that I've read beginning to end. My setup is different than what's been considered here before due to the inward-facing woofers of the 3.3s. It should also prove interesting in that I will be changing from the #39 to the RME ADI-2 DAC FS that will arrive tomorrow.

This room has a k i tchen behind the camera, so there's a lot of length as well as volume. Using the good old Stereophile Test CD #1, I've achieved decent EQ from speaker placement and room treatment. There isn't much WAF, but I want a balance between functional and attractive. The front wall is treated 3' up the wall with floor-to-ceiling bass traps. The black floor mats are to keep soft-tip darts from damage, not acoustic room treatment by intent.

A UMIK-1 is arriving tonight. I'm going to get REW measurements using the #39 and compare them to the same measurements made with the RME driving the #331. REW will also be used to  tune the room as well as possible without EQ, primarily to remove nulls. After the placement is optimized, REW and the RME EQ bands will be used from a good starting point. I'm wondering if it would be more interesting to remove nulls using the #39, then swap in the RME and run the comparison test.

The room has glass. When I was doing the acoustic treatment, I read about the problems of glass. One might notice how perfectly the rock collection covers both the first and second reflection points (sigh). And while it isn't visible here, the wine cooler at the left has glass doors. In the pursuit of beautiful music, I've made a CAD drawing of the BAD Panel diffuser that I'll cut on a laser or CNC router. They are 2'x2' and might be sufficient with one on each side, and the patent says that they can be inverted for adjacent placement to reach 2'x4'. An experiment with some absorption panels on art easels made the image noticeably better. Obviously, I'd be well-served by moving the rock collection, but it's so nice to look at while relaxing with music!

That's it for now. I look forward to working with this group, as I know you can help this system reach peak performance. I hope you will find the #39/RME comparison an interesting look at excellent vintage equipment and excellent new equipment.

Thanks for the help. I will try that in the future. And if you want something stronger next time then you can drink a Duvel .

So anyway Randy..

PHX.  I based out of Sky Harbor some years ago.  Lived just off of Baseline in Tempe.   Nice area...in January!

On Topic, looking at your Floor Plan, I see a nice Equilateral Triangle re: Speaker/Seating.     The 1950s Stereophonic Basics still apply.   Good on You!

Perhaps it's your Camera Angle, but are the Tweeters of your Speakers REALLY below Ear Level?    No no!!

The Glass Case on the Right Wall concerns me.   Perilously close to a FRP, and nothing reflects Sound like Glass!

Otherwise, without seeing contradictory measurement Data, I'd wager that your install sounds quite nice!!    Just wait until your new ADI-2 DAC goes on line!!   My Friend, THAT is an upgrade of Biblical Proportion, and that is NOT Audiophile BS!!

Your new UMik is a great piece of Kit!!  You'll like that, and REW almost expects that you're using the Umik.   Simplicity, and Common Sense personified.

Anyway...when time permits, collect a few sweeps, and post your results.  1/3 Octave smoothing is ideal for our Rooms IMO.

I feel good about your Set Up already.

Curt

No, it's a visual artifact. They are exactly at ear level. The front is angled inward by 21 degrees, in NHT style of the day. They are outstanding speakers even after time and a number of fried tweeters and XO's from using two bridged 331's.

It's an excellent and annoying reflector. The display case is quite well-positioned for both first and second reflections. I hung a comforter over it to hear the (obvious) difference. This is a form/function conflict I have yet to resolve.

I'll post some sweeps in a day or two. Thanks for your thoughts!

I've read the numerous accolades granted RME and chose it for this reason. Now I have much less trepidation about its musicality.

Unfortunately, I also bought a piece of Schiit equipment that's still in transit, a Magni 3+. It seems that "BS Audio Reviews" is quite appropriate.

I should mention that a pillow is usually over the back of the listening chair. The sides of the chair are fairly significant reflectors on their own. The pillow will be there for the sweeps.

I was afraid you'd say that.

As I read it, you "hear" the China Cabinet even though it is not in close proximity to the speakers. That's an even bigger disappointment than simply having the Truth reinforced. I'll throw the comforter over the display case for the sweeps... and then take it off and sweep it again. That should be revealing!

100%. I was just examining alternative locations. The case is at the lower-right of the floor plan, about where the 2.59m is. It could move around the corner counterclockwise. There it would be protected from direct waves by the corner, but would get first reflections from the short wall across from it. SRP is fairly dispersed by the 3D shapes in the k i tchen.

Will do. However, in order to make it more fun, I'll do a sweep before and after I move it, no comforter. I see the UMIK was just delivered, gotta go to the Neighborhood Post Box Matrix.

Merci, mon ami... Randy

Randy,  I think our best, first course of action would be for you to spend a few weeks with your new ADI-2 DAC.  Get a feel for it's clarity!

My Wife is still freaked out.  "It's like they're STANDING THERE!!"  (RE:  Any Record from the King's Singers,etc)

Afterward...we can make adjustments if needed.  Get us some data, and in the meantime...we'll temporarily shut up.

Best to You

Curt

Hah hah!!   Our Friend N00b is a Giant amongst Men, and his Wife is a Cellist.   Audiophile BS cannot exist in their Presence. 

Wonderful Persons to have in our Midst

PS:  Thanks to N00b, I have learned another part of the Franzosich Lexicon that I am sadly...unable to share on a "Family" Forum. 

Fun Stuff tho!!

Hmmm... 60Hz * 5.5 is 330 Hz. That's not an integral harmonic, but the shape of the curves and the N plus one-half ratio seem to relate the two nulls.

Really Randy, aside from the Null at 60hz you've observed, a generally good plot!

As JasO stated, Speaker/Seating adjustments are most likely in order.   Note also that Nulls occur at 1/4 Wavelength points in a Room.  60hz has a 1/4 Wavelength of 4.7ft...almost EXACTLY where your Ear is while seated in a Room with a 9ft Ceiling.    Coincidence?

Let's Test this hypothesis by Raising/Lowering the Mic +/- 1ft, and repeating the test.  Just focus on 20-100hz-ish to zero in on the problem area.   No need to abuse Tweeters.   Lets see if the Null Freq/Amplitude changes at all.

Travel Day today, so I'll be "someplace" but will check in as circumstamces allow.

Have Fun!

Curt

PS:  In another of my Nebulous thoughts...are your Speakers Bi-Wired or something similar?  In such cases, A Sharp Null can be the Calling Card of an incorrectly polarized Woofer.  Just sayin'...

Greetings, NOOb. Merci pour votre reponse. Curt mentioned that your wife is a cellist. I am a pianist, and today realized that I'd best close the top of the baby grand shown in the floor plan. Kinda silly to leave all those resonant strings open to contribute to the aural landscape. After doing that, this the resulting sweep in three different views.

Last night's graph apparently had no smoothing at all. Here, the 1/6 smoothing at the top (20-200Hz) looks very good, save for the null centered at 60Hz. At 1/12 smoothing, it still looks nice and the 60Hz null shows it has some energy. The bottom 20-2720Hz graph also looks good. The acoustic treatments and speaker placement were determined with Stereophile Test CD #1 and my ears. The result is quite pleasing. I want to address that 60Hz null, but considering the high quality of the RME, it seems best to wait until it arrives before pushing around those carefully-positioned speakers.

These are all taken with the display case glass naked to the sonic world. Next test: hang a thick down comforter over Mr. Display Case and sweep it again. The shelf at 1-1.2kHz might be related to the glass; we shall see.

This is the same sweep at 1/12 smoothing. I know these features can't be addressed in great detail (per Willem's discussion), but it's nice to not find any snakes hiding under the filter. The two low points were 0.6dB apart and now they are 0.7dB apart - no snakes here.

That 900-1250Hz shelf remains. The glass treatment didn't change it much; perhaps it even broadened it a bit. I'm not sure how to interpret that shelf and act on it with speaker placement alone. Maybe REW can generate a 1kHz test tone and I take the UMIK around the room to find hot spots?

The soundstage has been improved immensely with the acoustic treatment of the glass items. I don't see it in the plots, but it's clear as day to the ear. The Crystal Method was very stable and precise over their broad frequency and phase range. Pink Floyd DSOM is wonderful - what great mastering on that old album! Lady Gaga in "Just Dance" is precisely centered and crystal-clear.

All this is with a 48kHz x 16bit DAC from 1982.

It might be time to called it "sufficient" with the Levinson DAC and leave the room as it is until the RME arrives (by 8pm MST, thank goodness). I might make the BAD Panels while I wait; I'd like to hear how dispersion sounds compared to absorption.

It shouldn't appear that way. The room is 7.71m long. The 38% point is 2.93m from the front wall. The listening spot is at 39.8% or 3.07m. I made sure to avoid the mid-room null spot... but I'd be happy to run the sweep a few more times moving the mic fore and aft. Thanks for the suggestion.

Fun times, for sure. The RME is now scheduled to arrive by 1:30. Huh? USPS outperforming expectations??? Actually, it's wonderful to see.

On that note, the Schiit headphone amp arrived yesterday. I dislike the childish company name as well as its product naming convention, especially the Fulla, OMG. But I have to be honest - the Magni 3+ drove my difficult YH-100 orthodynamic cans (no mods) very well. Far better than the returned BlasterX G6. For $100, to be used in my bedroom far from the RME, it's fine. Detail and soundstage are very good, and overall the YH-100's sound better than I've ever heard them. Oh well, I'll just tell friends it's a Magni and never mention the company name.

It's rather exciting that the RME will drive cans directly, with EQ and Extreme Power. The YH-100's will never need to be modded if the EQ comes out right. I really don't want to open them and put felt in them. How 90's.

Well now!   Lookee there!!

Work with me! 

Im locked in a large metal tube right now, so I'll have to check back later, but we're going in the right direction with your set up.

Curt

Oh Lord!!!

Glad it arrived on time.   DO get VERY Cozy with the User Manual.   Best Advice there is.   The Manual explains all.

Curt

Well, it isn't really cut into fractions: the first plot is 10-200Hz and the second is 20-10kHz. I wanted to see the low freqs in detail as well as the broader spectrum. It would be interesting to see 20-20kHz, though. I'll run that sweep in a little while.

It looks really fine with 1/3 smoothing... too good in a way. But I'll post that as well. I also want to run it at higher volume to see if it makes a difference.

This is where it got *very* interesting! Here, the laptop is running audio through USB into the RME. I might need an ASIO driver for typical programs, but REW and JRiver MC25 both drive ASIO directly. The plot compares RME/HDMI to RME/USB.

The RME really shines running USB! The 10-20Hz range is surprisingly even, especially considering there's no subwoofer(s). The signal is more controlled and more accurate from end-to-end. I imagine that 1/3 smoothing will look nearly perfect, save for minor EQ tuning.

It sounds so fine like this! My gosh, now it took my breath away. Lady Gaga was better, but the real treat came from The Crystal Method. "Ready, Steady, Go" and "Murder" have stunning bass, powerful yet controlled. The phase games played by Crystal Method come through spectacularly! It kept me glued to the speakers as I marveled at this little miracle of technology.

Note: I'm a software developer. The laptop is a high-speed gaming MSI that handles Visual Studio 2017 and real-time 3D CAD sims. It has a lot of horsepower for a "laptop".

EDIT: the grid doesn't align because I had to restart the system after installing the RME USB driver. REW came up with a different look and size. However, the "crosshair" is aligned, so disregard the confusing grid.

Lieber Hr. bejoro,

I want to give you a +1 on the value of stereo subwoofer phase. I'm thinking that people are confused because they often hear that low freqs are not directional. That isn't really true. More properly expressed, it would be that our ears can't determine the direction of the source of low freqs as well as high freqs. The wavefronts don't arrive as frequently, so we perceive less directionality.

However, it's a fact that sounds of any frequency propagate spherically from the source. The two stereo signals arrive at our ears at different times with different information regardless of frequency. There's no reason to believe that somehow low freqs don't contain phase information. At what frequency would the phase information disappear?

I agree with you. If a setup has two subs, they should be run left/right and positioned with the same care to distance from the listener as any other speaker. There are subtle cues that our minds put together into the soundstage. What a shame to lose the phase information when you can actually perceive it!

Bear in mind, this applies to stereo audio, not home theater with a single subwoofer output.

Ich weiss nicht, wo Sie in Deutschland sind. Das ist meine Stieftochter in Munchen. Sri Lanka trifft Deutschland mit Bier als gemeinsame Sprache!

The "you" sign... Natasha made a wonderful collage for her Mom; this was one of the photos.