Topic: ADI-2 DAC FS - setting for Naim NAP 200

Hi there.

Anyone like to guess on some good settings to try on the ADI-2 DAC FS with a Naim NAP 200 power amp?

At the moment all my settings on the RME are as it comes out of the box.

I wasn't that impressed with my overall setup, I'm not blaming that on the RME but rather my existing equipment.  I didn't realise the RME should be properly set up.

I saw elsewhere on the forum that having a negative reading for the volume level can result with noise... which I'm getting.  I have my levels on the PC set at 100%.  A reasonable level for listening at the RME is between -40 and -20.  By the time you get to positive numbers the actual volume from the speakers would be quite uncomfortable... I can't remember ever getting to that volume.

I'm not very familiar with the various settings on the RME so if possible please describe where to go to change the settings and describe it as it would be shown on the RME.

Many thanks.  Looking forward to improvements!

Re: ADI-2 DAC FS - setting for Naim NAP 200

Noise ? Do you use balanced cables ?

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: ADI-2 DAC FS - setting for Naim NAP 200

This was the topic I picked that up from: https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=27767

This was the particular quote:

"Using -5 dBu with volume down to -45 to -35 means that your Quad power amplifier has an extremely sensitive input - or you listen at very low volume. If you like it and don't hear noise or hum you can just let it be like this."

I assumed from that... that in a similar scenario there are times when you could hear 'noise or hum'

Re: ADI-2 DAC FS - setting for Naim NAP 200

Do you or can you use balanced cables ?

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: ADI-2 DAC FS - setting for Naim NAP 200

I think you're missing the point by being preoccupied with noise.  That's not really the question at the heart of this.

What I really want to know is which settings would be good for my amp. 

On a different thread a different RME owner with a different amp was told if he is getting noise at low volume levels they might go away with different settings.  That's not to say my only concern is noise... I get a bit of hum from the system while there's nothing running through it... if that happened to go as a consequence of programming other settings then all the better... but not the primary focus of my question.

Re: ADI-2 DAC FS - setting for Naim NAP 200

> I saw elsewhere on the forum that having a negative reading for the volume level can result with noise...
> which I'm getting.
   ^^^^^^^^^^^

Well you brought it up .. but ok, fair enough, good luck.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: ADI-2 DAC FS - setting for Naim NAP 200

Like I said, it's not the most important part of my opening post.  If that wasn't clear then I apologise.  But it seemed pretty obvious, the main purpose of asking the question is even in the post subject.

If it helps, let's imagine I do have balanced cables... then we can move on to the next bit?

8 (edited by ramses 2020-04-24 17:13:42)

Re: ADI-2 DAC FS - setting for Naim NAP 200

Does your amp have balanced inputs ?

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: ADI-2 DAC FS - setting for Naim NAP 200

No.  I just checked, without the RME connected to the AMP the system still hums a little, not the worst I've heard by a long way.  Reconnecting the RME doesn't change anything.  So nothing to do with the cable between the RME and the AMP.  I'll check for separate solutions to that problem.

Now, onto good RME settings.  Can you help?  Or comments from others also welcome.

Re: ADI-2 DAC FS - setting for Naim NAP 200

Hi Emmett.
If your amp is too sensitive, you could add pads in the path to calibrate your level (ideally, the RME ADI-2 DAC will be at 0 dB when the volume is at the max you will listen to). With Auto Vol Ref activated (check the manual): this function is a must have if you handle your volume with the ADI.

Concerning level matching, please see this thread: https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=25399

ADI-2 DAC (with stock PSU) - Neumann KH 310 A monitors - Cheap USB and XLR cables

11 (edited by ramses 2020-04-24 18:29:54)

Re: ADI-2 DAC FS - setting for Naim NAP 200

If balanced cables are not supported in your case and if you have hum, then you can try to reduce the hum by i.e. making sure that ADI-2 DAC and the NAIM are connected to the same power strip, so that ground level doesn't differ too much.

The things mentioned in the thread that you found is about using the proper reference level between ADI-2 DAC and your power amp to
- have no distortion (if the signal should be too hot for your amps inputs) and
- to keep SNR low

Ideal would be on the ADI-2 Pro to use volume settings close to 0dB, but this will be far too loud.

To make this better possible you can do the following:
- choose a lower (fix) reference level on the ADI-2 DAC, cinch outputs have already a lower output level
   compared to balanced outputs, see manual
- use switchable -20 / -30 dB attenuators
- the rest you can perform with the volume knob to reduce volume maybe to -10dB

I think alternatively you could also use auto-ref-level on the ADI-2 Pro and you need to look up how far you can turn up the volume level (the display tells you the current reflevel) but this could quickly become too loud, you should definitively get attenuators. You do not need to take the most expensive ones, I got some from Thomann which can be switched between -20 and -30 dB. Based on information in this thread: https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=25399

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

12 (edited by KaiS 2020-04-25 15:39:23)

Re: ADI-2 DAC FS - setting for Naim NAP 200

If you are on factory settings there's nothing to generally optimize on the ADI-2 DAC for your situation.
Auto Reference Level is already active and cares for best possible use of the DAC's dynamic range, and best fit to the power amp's sensitivity.


ADI-2 DAC's self noise is so low that it never becomes the limiting factor.
If you are on -40 dB Volume when listening at lower sound level, this is OK.


When connected to a Windows PC it's possible that the Windows Mixer causes some noise by mixing one or more of the PC's analog inputs into the signal path.

I'd strongly recommend to do the RME Bit Test (manual page 66).
Takes a minute and reliably verifies if everything is optimized on the Windows side.


Regarding the hum you get when no cable is connected to the Naim's input:
It's likely that your Naim NAP 200 is no longer up to specs, maybe dried out caps or a broken rectifier.
Or - you have really sensitive loudspeakers, but still hum and noise should be very low then.


You don't seem to be quite satisfied with the results your system gives you, but there may be room for improvements:
For sound-tuning your setup I suggest to read the chapters of the manual regarding the selection of DA Filters page 21, Loudness page 14, and Equalizer page 13.

Play with the setting and find out what you like.
There's no rule and no "global best setting", but a lot of variability even to remedy some flaws your speakers might have.

13 (edited by Curt962 2020-04-25 02:24:57)

Re: ADI-2 DAC FS - setting for Naim NAP 200

Emmett,

The User Group has given you some very Solid advice regarding your matter.  Follow it!

Your RME has a noise floor that is astonishingly far beneath the threshold of audibility.   Hums,Buzzes, and other such problems are almost invariably caused by problems elsewhere in the Signal Path.

In addition to the good guidance you've already received, look into your Cable "Dress"    This translates into keeping Unbalanced Signal Cables (like yours) AWAY FROM Mains Cords, Transformers, etc.   If they must cross paths...do so only at Right Angles to minimize the chances of induced noise voltage.   Messy, Rat's Nest, tangles of HiFi wiring causes problems!   So do Dimmer Switches...   An Audio Nightmare.

Good Luck!

Curt

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic AKM4490 Edition"
Cables:  Red, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes

Re: ADI-2 DAC FS - setting for Naim NAP 200

Thank you, in the end despite getting off to a bit of a rocky start... I think the advice is useful.  I've bought some attenuators, the recommended ones. 

The hum from my speakers is nowhere near as loud as I've heard from other systems, but I'm quite sensitive to it as I have my speakers about a meter away and the room is otherwise silent. I live in a rural area so no traffic noise or sounds of other people.

I'll play around with the grounding on the amp to see if I can reduce the noise.

Re: ADI-2 DAC FS - setting for Naim NAP 200

Got the attenuators and plugged them in. Set to maximum.  Sounds much better.  There's actually a full range of sounds coming from the speakers now.

Re: ADI-2 DAC FS - setting for Naim NAP 200

Got the RME set at 0.0 on the volume control and it's just a shade above the volume I'd comfortably listen at. But I'm enjoying it for the moment and will turn it down later.

Re: ADI-2 DAC FS - setting for Naim NAP 200

I am that other user with an amplifier that had an input that was too sensitive (a Quad 606-2 with 0.5 V sensitivity). I was advised by RME to use inline attenuators and those did indeed do the job. Auto reference level setting is on. And the sound is excellent. No hum either.

RME ADI-2 DAC fs, Quad 606-2 power amp, Quad 2805 speakers, B&W PV1d sub with Antimode 8033 Cinema

Re: ADI-2 DAC FS - setting for Naim NAP 200

yes, I saw that. Funny thing is... my system probably would've sounded alright without the RME as the source.. but with the attenuators installed if I'd known about the problem sooner.  Not that I regret getting the RME ADI-2, I'm 100% certain it adds to the overall performance of my system.  At the outset I wanted a remote control for volume, so even if that's all the RME does then I've achieved that.  I'm sure it adds a whole lot more than just a remote though.  Really happy with the way my system sounds now.

19 (edited by Curt962 2020-04-29 19:29:33)

Re: ADI-2 DAC FS - setting for Naim NAP 200

Emmett, if You're happy, then we can all be happy with you!   Trust that your new RME brings far more to the Table than simply a Remote.  Hums, and Buzzes are not part of the RME.   Much of the "Volume" setting discussion is rooted in good Studio Engineering.   The Term is "Gain Staging" (Wiki that!), and it belongs not just in the Studio, but also the home listening environment too.  !!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gain_stage

https://www.sweetwater.com/insync/gain-staging/

Happy Listening!  Enjoy!!

Curt

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic AKM4490 Edition"
Cables:  Red, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes