Topic: USB drop outs

having connected my ADI-2 DAC fs to PC with windows 10 and streaming on tidal.
i am achieving a better sound resolution at 352800 hz with a USB, compared to coaxial (192000hz)
BUT! i am getting infrequent drop outs.
Please can you help me identify the most common reasons for this?
i feel its something to do with windows 10?

thanks in advance :-)

2 (edited by rado 2020-06-06 20:26:31)

Re: USB drop outs

Maximum bitrate for Tidal is 96/24 (with first unfold done by software), so there is no reason to use 384k or 192k bitrates.

Tidal songs are streamed in 44.1/16, 48/24, 88.2/16 and 96/24.

I would recommend using coaxial, as it can autoswitch frequency unlike USB with RME drivers. Other option is to uninstall RME USB drivers and use universal Windows ones, these do autoswitch frequency, and let RME unit do the rest. No need to resample / upsample via Windows mixer.

Also, remember to set your sound output in Tidal to "Exclusive mode ON"  and "Force volume ON", but do not set "Passthrough MQA" (leave it OFF).

This will allow bit-perfect output via WASAPI.

Also, do try bit-perfect test for your system (look it up in manual, download WAV files, and play them).

If you still experience dropouts, you will have something wrong with your system, cables, and/or internet connection.

Re: USB drop outs

thank you very much for your reply.

i have had the adi-2 dac fs running ok without dropouts via spdif on PC windows 10.
i have also had it running ok without dropouts via usb on a mac.
BUT, and its a big BUT!...
it just doesn't sound anywhere near as crystal as running it through usb on windows 10 / usb.
where i can upsample the sound to 192k via the drivers - except im still getting dropouts and
the occasional distortion.
i have since been on a 3 month journey trying absolutely every fix i can find in windows 10.
surely someone else is also experiencing this? is it not a common issue?

rsvp with any more help and advice would be greatly appreciated.

Re: USB drop outs

got same issue after a while using it without problem. surely is something about windows 10
I've tried several player softwares, buffer sizes  but still the same, specially annoying with "high process demand"  files such DSD

Re: USB drop outs

rado wrote:

Maximum bitrate for Tidal is 96/24 (with first unfold done by software), so there is no reason to use 384k or 192k bitrates.

Tidal songs are streamed in 44.1/16, 48/24, 88.2/16 and 96/24.

I would recommend using coaxial, as it can autoswitch frequency unlike USB with RME drivers. Other option is to uninstall RME USB drivers and use universal Windows ones, these do autoswitch frequency, and let RME unit do the rest. No need to resample / upsample via Windows mixer.

Also, remember to set your sound output in Tidal to "Exclusive mode ON"  and "Force volume ON", but do not set "Passthrough MQA" (leave it OFF).

This will allow bit-perfect output via WASAPI.

Also, do try bit-perfect test for your system (look it up in manual, download WAV files, and play them).

If you still experience dropouts, you will have something wrong with your system, cables, and/or internet connection.

Just wanted to clarify that, even with the RME driver removed and using the Windows driver, the Tidal desktop app is not bit perfect with USB and the RME DAC. The Windows mixer will resample the signal.

In order to get Tidal bit perfect with USB a third party app such as Audirvana or Roon must be used.

If qobuz is available in your country, the qobuz desktop app supports WASAPI and ASIO bit perfect output. Qobuz also offers CD quality and Hi-res quality FLAC. No MQA nonsense. Qobuz is also $5.00 per month less depending on your location.

6 (edited by LuckyStarr 2021-03-01 12:55:29)

Re: USB drop outs

Hello everyone,
I just buyed my ADI-2 DAC fs and have exactly the same troubles...
Using the DAC on my computer (W10) via USB (plugged on an USB 3.1 port) results in regular sound cut and each time it happens I can see the windows service "Windows Audio Endpoint Builder" using nearly 100% of the CPU.
I read that removing RME Drivers will fix the problem but it did not, he's still there but happens less often.
I'm considering returning the product...

7

Re: USB drop outs

Windows Audio Endpoint Bulder is a single thread process, so it can not use more than 100% of one core (!) - not your total CPU. Then you could not use your computer anymore. That said WAEB is not controlled by RME or our drivers as such, which you have already proven by removing those. Sometimes it freaks out because of the motherboard Realtek soundcard drivers and extensions. That's not our problem and nothing we can change.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: USB drop outs

Of course WAEB wasn't freezing my entire PC, what I'm trying to do here is to understand what can cause the audio interruption and solve the problem. I'm not yet sure if WAEB CPU spikes are a cause or a consequence of the problem.

Lowering the sample rate seems to enhance the situation.

"That's not our problem and nothing we can change."

With your drivers it's even worse and I'm not the only one experiencing troubles regarding the google search I've done, so maybe you should consider it your problem...

9 (edited by rdfornasero 2021-03-01 17:42:45)

Re: USB drop outs

LuckyStarr wrote:

Of course WAEB wasn't freezing my entire PC, what I'm trying to do here is to understand what can cause the audio interruption and solve the problem. I'm not yet sure if WAEB CPU spikes are a cause or a consequence of the problem.

Lowering the sample rate seems to enhance the situation.

"That's not our problem and nothing we can change."

With your drivers it's even worse and I'm not the only one experiencing troubles regarding the google search I've done, so maybe you should consider it your problem...

There is most likely a process happening in the background that is causing the problem. Your PC isn't suitable for processing real-time audio. You could try using an app called LatencyMon or DPC Latency Checker to see what process is causing the problem.

There are a couple apps you could try to see if your PC is suitable for processing real time audio.

DPC Latency Checker - https://softfamous.com/dpc-latency-checker/

LatencyMon - https://www.resplendence.com/latencymon

More info here - https://www.sweetwater.com/sweetcare/ar … cy-issues/

Hopefully, combined with Task Manager, you'll be able to determine what process is causing the issue.

Edit: Another thing you could try is a Clean Boot to see if a driver is behaving badly and causing latency spikes.

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/top … 7a1807f3dd

10 (edited by LuckyStarr 2021-03-01 18:21:44)

Re: USB drop outs

Thank you very much for your reply as it will help me to investigate.

For now it seems that the latency monitored by LatencyMon on my PC is suitable for real time audio:

709,80µs Highest measured interrupt to process latency
39,40 Highest reported ISR routine execution time
667,52 Highest reported DPC routine execution time

My config is the following:

CPU: I7 6700k@4Ghz
GPU: Nvidia RTX3080
RAM: 32Go Ram
SSD NVMe
OS: W10 v2004 build 19041

I experienced a dropout during the LatencyMon monitoring and it did not changed the highest interrupt to process latency or the ISR/DPC routine execution time.
I'll keep monitoring with various rate sample settings and with the RME driver to detect what's causing the issue.

I'll try other softwares mentioned here:
https://www.forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=29141

And even if it is old (2009) I'll check what's mentioned here:
http://www.livefactory.com/forum/rack-p … t/post/326

I'll come back if I find something.

Thank you again

11 (edited by ning 2021-03-01 18:34:44)

Re: USB drop outs

I am a software developer of some widely used audio software. In my spare time I also contributed to a few music players’ code. Here is something normal people don’t know— most audio application use a callback function to play music, and that callback function needs to be lock free. Unfortunately most of the widely used applications (such as VLC) are poorly written by inexperienced developers, and locks are introduced in the playback function (because that’s the easiest approach to producer consumer problem). Such program will have performance issues.  It may not take full amount of CPU, but just sitting there waiting for the lock to be released.

In those systems, when you play higher than normal (such as higher than 48khz 16bit) resolution music, you hear hiccups. Usually hi res music is not tested on those systems. Those systems are written for normal people, not for pros or audiophiles.

Some hardware systems are poorly designed (such as some computer motherboards, or raspberry pi’s before version 4 which has problem handling IRQs real-time). As a result no matter what you do such hardware will have issue with USB audio playback as well.

This is especially true for UAC2. If you have those issues, you need to first make sure it’s RME’s fault—I would say most time it’s not. Try plugging in some other UAC2 device and see if the problem persists, before reaching to the conclusion too soon.

Re: USB drop outs

Just to add to this, I am currently getting dropouts/clicks on my ADI-2, both on my main windows machine, and when connected to a different device such as a raspberry pi

Re: USB drop outs

As I said, as long as you are using raspberry pi before version 4, you will definitely get drop outs from USB. There is just no way to fix it.

Re: USB drop outs

I am using a pi4b

15 (edited by ning 2021-03-01 19:00:23)

Re: USB drop outs

On clean installation, with an idle system. Try playing with recent versions of MPD with alsa plug-in.  If that has drop outs, something is wrong. It should play bit perfect up to 768khz without hiccups.

Oh make sure you use a fast SD card as well.

Also try other UAC2 device and see if you have same problem with same system setups.

Re: USB drop outs

Honestly I think the issue may just be this specific unit.
The headphone 3/4 amplifier died and it spent 12 weeks in warranty repair.
Literally just got it back and now i'm getting USB dropouts and not meeting performance spec on the ADC either.

No idea what's wrong but i'm pretty irked about it. Not sure what to do. ANOTHER 12 weeks or so in warranty repair to  MAYBE sort it really isn't an ideal solution at this point.

Re: USB drop outs

LuckyStarr wrote:

Thank you very much for your reply as it will help me to investigate.

For now it seems that the latency monitored by LatencyMon on my PC is suitable for real time audio:

709,80µs Highest measured interrupt to process latency
39,40 Highest reported ISR routine execution time
667,52 Highest reported DPC routine execution time

My config is the following:

CPU: I7 6700k@4Ghz
GPU: Nvidia RTX3080
RAM: 32Go Ram
SSD NVMe
OS: W10 v2004 build 19041

I experienced a dropout during the LatencyMon monitoring and it did not changed the highest interrupt to process latency or the ISR/DPC routine execution time.
I'll keep monitoring with various rate sample settings and with the RME driver to detect what's causing the issue.

I'll try other softwares mentioned here:
https://www.forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=29141

And even if it is old (2009) I'll check what's mentioned here:
http://www.livefactory.com/forum/rack-p … t/post/326

I'll come back if I find something.

Thank you again

What audio player app are you using?

18 (edited by LuckyStarr 2021-03-01 20:26:40)

Re: USB drop outs

I use Foobar2000, but the drops happens with other softwares too, like Microsoft Teams, Chrome (with Twitch), etc...
I want to use the DAC for listening music but also for my daily computer needs like working/gaming/browsing the web.

For now latency (1580) and DPC (1040) spikes in LatencyMon are caused by Wdf01000.sys from windows and nvlddmkm.sys from nvidia drivers respectively.

As I mentioned before reducing the sample rate (to 44.1Khz) reduced the dropout drastically, now I need to investigate more.
I also try different USB port to see which one will be the best for the DAC.

19

Re: USB drop outs

LuckyStarr wrote:

"That's not our problem and nothing we can change."

With your drivers it's even worse and I'm not the only one experiencing troubles regarding the google search I've done, so maybe you should consider it your problem...

Definitely not. WAEB is a pure MS problem. Miserably coded and performed. Not going to be fixed because they don't care.

https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.ph … 42#p153442

That said your drop-out problem seems to be unrelated if that happens while CPU load is low.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME