Topic: ADI 2 FS vs DAC FS DA conversion

Hi, a few questions here.

1) What is the difference in sound quality between the ADI 2 FS & DAC FS V.1 ? (no lcd version vs dac with akm4490 chip)

2) What is the difference in sound quality between the ADI 2 FS & DAC FS V.2 ? (no lcd version vs dac with akm4493 chip)

3) The adi 2 fs does not have the selection of filters that the DAC has.
    Is the adi 2 fs using one of those filters , and if yes, which one?

Thank you

2 (edited by KaiS 2020-06-23 08:33:05)

Re: ADI 2 FS vs DAC FS DA conversion

John Mor wrote:

3) The adi 2 fs does not have the selection of filters that the DAC has.
    Is the adi 2 fs using one of those filters , and if yes, which one?

Looking at ADI-2 FS's (without LCD) frequency response it's the "Sharp" filter or a variant of it, like 99.999% of all converters out there ever since.


From the manual page 13:

AD:  Oversampling-Filter: Short Delay Sharp, IIR RME Ripple Suppression Latenz: 5 Samples = 0,11 ms @ 44,1 kHz

DA: Oversampling-Filter: Short Delay Sharp, IIR Latenz: 6 Samples = 0,14 ms @ 44,1 kHz

3 (edited by ramses 2020-06-23 12:01:40)

Re: ADI 2 FS vs DAC FS DA conversion

You noticed this information on the product webpage ?

"The ADI-2 FS also uses the conversion technology of the ADI-2 Pro: the AK557x family and the AK4490 not only offer 192 kHz sampling frequency and lowest distortion, but also a dynamic range of 120 dBA."

Common sense is that the differences between the two akm chips (akm4490 and akm4493) are measurable (a few dB  SNR more plus a new filter) but inaudible.

From the features its clear that the ADI-2 FS is a AD/DA converter with the focus on simply AD/DA conversion.

If you want the advanced features of the ADI-2 DAC/Pro
- USB DAC
- High Power Phones outputs
- DSD support
- Dynamic Loudness Support
- Auto Ref Level
- IEM output
- PEQ
- slow ramp-up of volume when plugging phones
- ...
Then you need the ADI-2 DAC FS or maybe even the ADI-2 Pro FS R BE if you also need e.g.
- analog inputs
- digital outputs
- AES (balanced)
- balanced phones support
- two D/A converter design
- ...

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: ADI 2 FS vs DAC FS DA conversion

(AES is available on the DAC, via Coaxial)

ADI-2 DAC (with stock PSU) - Neumann KH 310 A monitors - Cheap USB and XLR cables

Re: ADI 2 FS vs DAC FS DA conversion

Thank you all for your replies.

I've read the specs and the measurements but
i would love to know if anyone has done a listening test between the two.

Re: ADI 2 FS vs DAC FS DA conversion

John Mor wrote:

i would love to know if anyone has done a listening test between the two.

I think that discussion is better had at a hifi / audiophile forum smile.

Rune Borup @ FishCorp
Producer / Engineer / Composer
RayDAT > 2 x ADI-8 QS | AES+SPDIF > ADI-2 Pro

Re: ADI 2 FS vs DAC FS DA conversion

another question. The digital volume control vs the non stepped volume knob?
Is the non stepped knob an analog one? If yes, doesn't it take a toll on the soundstage and performance in general?

Re: ADI 2 FS vs DAC FS DA conversion

John Mor wrote:

another question. The digital volume control vs the non stepped volume knob?
Is the non stepped knob an analog one? If yes, doesn't it take a toll on the soundstage and performance in general?

One should read the manual on page 63. smile

ADI-2 DAC (with stock PSU) - Neumann KH 310 A monitors - Cheap USB and XLR cables

Re: ADI 2 FS vs DAC FS DA conversion

John Mor wrote:

another question. The digital volume control vs the non stepped volume knob?
Is the non stepped knob an analog one? If yes, doesn't it take a toll on the soundstage and performance in general?

The volume control for the ADI-2 FS is in the analog domain; see page 17 here: https://www.rme-audio.de/downloads/adi2fs_e.pdf. There is always the potential for tracking errors stereo-wise on analog controls, but i wouldn't worry. But - if this is a concern for you, the ADI-2 Pro / DAC is probably a better choice.

Rune Borup @ FishCorp
Producer / Engineer / Composer
RayDAT > 2 x ADI-8 QS | AES+SPDIF > ADI-2 Pro

Re: ADI 2 FS vs DAC FS DA conversion

Basken wrote:
John Mor wrote:

i would love to know if anyone has done a listening test between the two.

I think that discussion is better had at a hifi / audiophile forum smile.

Hmm i would prefer the opinions of actual sound engineers and mastering engineers tbh but thank you!

Re: ADI 2 FS vs DAC FS DA conversion

N00b wrote:
John Mor wrote:

another question. The digital volume control vs the non stepped volume knob?
Is the non stepped knob an analog one? If yes, doesn't it take a toll on the soundstage and performance in general?

One should read the manual on page 63. smile

awesome, thanks!

Re: ADI 2 FS vs DAC FS DA conversion

Basken wrote:
John Mor wrote:

another question. The digital volume control vs the non stepped volume knob?
Is the non stepped knob an analog one? If yes, doesn't it take a toll on the soundstage and performance in general?

The volume control for the ADI-2 FS is in the analog domain; see page 17 here: https://www.rme-audio.de/downloads/adi2fs_e.pdf. There is always the potential for tracking errors stereo-wise on analog controls, but i wouldn't worry. But - if this is a concern for you, the ADI-2 Pro / DAC is probably a better choice.

ah i see, thanks again Basken.

Re: ADI 2 FS vs DAC FS DA conversion

John Mor wrote:
Basken wrote:
John Mor wrote:

i would love to know if anyone has done a listening test between the two.

I think that discussion is better had at a hifi / audiophile forum smile.

Hmm i would prefer the opinions of actual sound engineers and mastering engineers tbh but thank you!

You already had it: wink

ramses wrote:

[...]
Common sense is that the differences between the two akm chips (akm4490 and akm4493) are measurable (a few dB  SNR more plus a new filter) but inaudible.
[...]

ADI-2 DAC (with stock PSU) - Neumann KH 310 A monitors - Cheap USB and XLR cables

Re: ADI 2 FS vs DAC FS DA conversion

N00b wrote:
John Mor wrote:
Basken wrote:

I think that discussion is better had at a hifi / audiophile forum smile.

Hmm i would prefer the opinions of actual sound engineers and mastering engineers tbh but thank you!

You already had it: wink

ramses wrote:

[...]
Common sense is that the differences between the two akm chips (akm4490 and akm4493) are measurable (a few dB  SNR more plus a new filter) but inaudible.
[...]


I meant opinions of engineers that have actually tested or used both extensively. Ramses is talking about common sense, which implies that this test hasn't been done in that manner. At least this is what i understood, i may be wrong. smile

15 (edited by Basken 2020-06-23 17:35:37)

Re: ADI 2 FS vs DAC FS DA conversion

John Mor wrote:
Basken wrote:
John Mor wrote:

i would love to know if anyone has done a listening test between the two.

I think that discussion is better had at a hifi / audiophile forum smile.

Hmm i would prefer the opinions of actual sound engineers and mastering engineers tbh but thank you!

The opinion of this mix/mastering-engineer, is that ears are a terrible source of empirical information. A mix that sounds great when i leave it the evening can sound terrible the next morning. Ears are in a constant state of flux and depends on volume, if you're hungry, drunk or in a bad mood; the list goes on and on. If you listen to a particular "bright" track, the track that follows might sound dull .. but if you wait a couple of minutes before listening to the next, it will probably sound just fine.

Knowing audio from this side of the table (eg. the production side), a suggestion that the soundstage is different (as in width / stereo) means that somehow a difference between the channels has been introduced (in a way that is pleasing), or that a non-trivial change in the spectrum (eg. substantial EQ) has happend. So - with this in mind, engineers tend to stay away from (or if in a shady mood: troll!) these kinds of discussions.

No forum needs trolling or snyde behaviour, so this is why i suggested a different venue which might be open to more subjective opinions smile.

Rune Borup @ FishCorp
Producer / Engineer / Composer
RayDAT > 2 x ADI-8 QS | AES+SPDIF > ADI-2 Pro

Re: ADI 2 FS vs DAC FS DA conversion

Basken wrote:
John Mor wrote:
Basken wrote:

I think that discussion is better had at a hifi / audiophile forum smile.

Hmm i would prefer the opinions of actual sound engineers and mastering engineers tbh but thank you!

The opinion of this mix/mastering-engineer, is that ears are a terrible source of empirical information. A mix that sounds great when i leave it the evening can sound terrible the next morning. Ears are in a constant state of flux and depends on volume, if you're hungry, drunk or in a bad mood; the list goes on and on. If you listen to a particular "bright" track, the track that follows might sound dull .. but if you wait a couple of minutes before listening to the next, it will probably sound just fine.

Knowing audio from this side of the table (eg. the production side), a suggestion that the soundstage is different (as in width / stereo) means that somehow a difference between the channels has been introduced (in a way that is pleasing), or that a non-trivial change in the spectrum (eg. substantial EQ) has happend. So - with this in mind, engineers tend to stay away from (or if in a shady mood: troll!) these kinds of discussions.

No forum needs trolling or snyde behaviour, so this is why i suggested a different venue which might be open to more subjective opinions smile.


Agreed, but how can one know about things like instrument separation, reverb and delay tails, depth and width by reading specs? I don't have the option to audition both units of course, so i'm asking if anyone has done so.

Re: ADI 2 FS vs DAC FS DA conversion

For me personally it would be more important that the features that this device offers match with my use cases ...

So if you want to use this device as DAC or in front of a HiFi or for listening via phones...

Then its pretty clear that you should get the ADI-2 DAC FS and not the ADI-2 FS.

Why ... ?!

Because all those features in the phones section like e.g. slow volume ramp-up on plugging phones, etc etc
are real good features that you will like every day ...

And if you get phones that need a little Bass adjustment .. then you will be glad to have the PEQ or simply B/T control.

And so on and so on .. there are many supportive features that the ADI-2 DAC FS has ...

This counts more than a few dB SNR ..

And if you are unsure and want to be on the safe side, please do yourself a favour, get the two devices, test them side by side and then you can draw a good decision based on your personal experience.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

18 (edited by Basken 2020-06-23 18:10:13)

Re: ADI 2 FS vs DAC FS DA conversion

John Mor wrote:

Agreed, but how can one know about things like instrument separation, reverb and delay tails, depth and width by reading specs? I don't have the option to audition both units of course, so i'm asking if anyone has done so.

Again - speaking from an engineers perspective, i deal with instrument separation, reverb and delay-tails all day long - and the suggestion that any DAC will change this, is quite frankly absurd. These kind of things are the result of very selective eq'ing, panning, dynamics processing, ect - and this applies to a mix situation, where i have control over all the separate elements. To change this in a master would require extremely specific processing, and no setting would result in better instrument separation across all material - so the idea that a specific DAC(chip) has these kinds of abilities, doesn't hold op .. at least to an engineer.

EDIT:
I'll offer you this, though:

The biggest improvement i've had in my studio in recent years (besides acoustics) was when i replaced my old analog monitor-controller with an ADI-2 Pro. On top of this, the ability to do a bit of corse room correction has paid off in time saved on mixing many times over smile .. So, depending on your setup, this aspect alone might be a very noticable improvement ..

Rune Borup @ FishCorp
Producer / Engineer / Composer
RayDAT > 2 x ADI-8 QS | AES+SPDIF > ADI-2 Pro

19

Re: ADI 2 FS vs DAC FS DA conversion

This forum needs a thumbs up function...

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: ADI 2 FS vs DAC FS DA conversion

John Mor wrote:
Basken wrote:
John Mor wrote:

Hmm i would prefer the opinions of actual sound engineers and mastering engineers tbh but thank you!

The opinion of this mix/mastering-engineer, is that ears are a terrible source of empirical information. A mix that sounds great when i leave it the evening can sound terrible the next morning. Ears are in a constant state of flux and depends on volume, if you're hungry, drunk or in a bad mood; the list goes on and on. If you listen to a particular "bright" track, the track that follows might sound dull .. but if you wait a couple of minutes before listening to the next, it will probably sound just fine.

Knowing audio from this side of the table (eg. the production side), a suggestion that the soundstage is different (as in width / stereo) means that somehow a difference between the channels has been introduced (in a way that is pleasing), or that a non-trivial change in the spectrum (eg. substantial EQ) has happend. So - with this in mind, engineers tend to stay away from (or if in a shady mood: troll!) these kinds of discussions.

No forum needs trolling or snyde behaviour, so this is why i suggested a different venue which might be open to more subjective opinions smile.


Agreed, but how can one know about things like instrument separation, reverb and delay tails, depth and width by reading specs? I don't have the option to audition both units of course, so i'm asking if anyone has done so.

No Option for audition ? Sorry, but this I don't understand. Isn't it a part of online commerce that the customer can order something to try out? In which country are you living may I ask?

That's why there are unfortunately so few specialty stores left, because online trade has taken over all that. But then these shops have to be brave enough to accept that you have to try something at home if you are unsure about something.
Of course you should not exaggerate such a thing, because in the end it also causes a loss for the retailer if he can only sell such an article as B-goods.

In Germany, for example, Thomann offers a 30 days money back guarantee. Even if it would only be two weeks in another shop. During this time you can easily test two devices in the evening or on the weekend? And if you ask kindly on phone you might even get special conditions that match more to your demands ... one week more or whatever.

And that will not be much different in other countries. So where is the problem ? But not that you have to pay a few hundred Euros for a few weeks and are offered the comfort of testing such a device in your own environment ? The money will be returned to you in full afterwards...

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

21 (edited by Basken 2020-06-24 22:06:25)

Re: ADI 2 FS vs DAC FS DA conversion

ramses wrote:

No Option for audition ? Sorry, but this I don't understand. Isn't it a part of online commerce that the customer can order something to try out? In which country are you living may I ask?

In all fairness, you will (initially) have to put down the money for two products, despite only keeping one of them. I can see this being a barrier for a number of people ..

Anyway - this is slightly off-topic, but RME quite clearly has a great product in the PRO/DAC - which effortlessly doubles as a monitor-controller / preamp. Personally i was informed of this from the specs, but it might be less obvious to the audiophile community, which most likely already have an (expensive) unit taking care of this part of the chain.

But - what if there was a dedicated RME product for this scenario? We could call it the "MainFace" :

- switched AD inputs (with level-calibration) for multiple analog sources
- balanced i/o loop for the mastering-engineers
- flexible output configuration for multiple speakers / 5.1 (and beyond).
- proper bass-management with BW, LR, ect filters
- expanded EQ bands for the outputs
- TotalMix / ARC integration
- MQA support (.... just kidding wink ).
- all the DAC/PRO features
- ect ..

Something that beats all the current pro-audio monitor-controllers in specs, functionality and ergonomics, yet also serving as an obvious drop-in replacement for an audiophile preamp. It's probably two different products (in regards to i/o count), but at least to me, this seems like the obvious evolution of the PRO/DAC family ..

Pretty please? <3 ..

Best,
/Rune/

Rune Borup @ FishCorp
Producer / Engineer / Composer
RayDAT > 2 x ADI-8 QS | AES+SPDIF > ADI-2 Pro

Re: ADI 2 FS vs DAC FS DA conversion

ramses wrote:
John Mor wrote:
Basken wrote:

The opinion of this mix/mastering-engineer, is that ears are a terrible source of empirical information. A mix that sounds great when i leave it the evening can sound terrible the next morning. Ears are in a constant state of flux and depends on volume, if you're hungry, drunk or in a bad mood; the list goes on and on. If you listen to a particular "bright" track, the track that follows might sound dull .. but if you wait a couple of minutes before listening to the next, it will probably sound just fine.

Knowing audio from this side of the table (eg. the production side), a suggestion that the soundstage is different (as in width / stereo) means that somehow a difference between the channels has been introduced (in a way that is pleasing), or that a non-trivial change in the spectrum (eg. substantial EQ) has happend. So - with this in mind, engineers tend to stay away from (or if in a shady mood: troll!) these kinds of discussions.

No forum needs trolling or snyde behaviour, so this is why i suggested a different venue which might be open to more subjective opinions smile.


Agreed, but how can one know about things like instrument separation, reverb and delay tails, depth and width by reading specs? I don't have the option to audition both units of course, so i'm asking if anyone has done so.

No Option for audition ? Sorry, but this I don't understand. Isn't it a part of online commerce that the customer can order something to try out? In which country are you living may I ask?

That's why there are unfortunately so few specialty stores left, because online trade has taken over all that. But then these shops have to be brave enough to accept that you have to try something at home if you are unsure about something.
Of course you should not exaggerate such a thing, because in the end it also causes a loss for the retailer if he can only sell such an article as B-goods.

In Germany, for example, Thomann offers a 30 days money back guarantee. Even if it would only be two weeks in another shop. During this time you can easily test two devices in the evening or on the weekend? And if you ask kindly on phone you might even get special conditions that match more to your demands ... one week more or whatever.

And that will not be much different in other countries. So where is the problem ? But not that you have to pay a few hundred Euros for a few weeks and are offered the comfort of testing such a device in your own environment ? The money will be returned to you in full afterwards...


I live in the island Crete, of Greece. I've been on the phone already with some stores but they don't take the risk to do so.

Re: ADI 2 FS vs DAC FS DA conversion

Basken wrote:
John Mor wrote:

Agreed, but how can one know about things like instrument separation, reverb and delay tails, depth and width by reading specs? I don't have the option to audition both units of course, so i'm asking if anyone has done so.

Again - speaking from an engineers perspective, i deal with instrument separation, reverb and delay-tails all day long - and the suggestion that any DAC will change this, is quite frankly absurd. These kind of things are the result of very selective eq'ing, panning, dynamics processing, ect - and this applies to a mix situation, where i have control over all the separate elements. To change this in a master would require extremely specific processing, and no setting would result in better instrument separation across all material - so the idea that a specific DAC(chip) has these kinds of abilities, doesn't hold op .. at least to an engineer.

EDIT:
I'll offer you this, though:

The biggest improvement i've had in my studio in recent years (besides acoustics) was when i replaced my old analog monitor-controller with an ADI-2 Pro. On top of this, the ability to do a bit of corse room correction has paid off in time saved on mixing many times over smile .. So, depending on your setup, this aspect alone might be a very noticable improvement ..


I really don't understand your post friend.
Of course i am not expecting a DAC to somehow change the qualities of a mix, how could i?
I am simply talking of having the ability to listen more analytically, so that i can take better decisions while mixing. What's absurd about that?

Re: ADI 2 FS vs DAC FS DA conversion

John Mor wrote:
Basken wrote:
John Mor wrote:

Agreed, but how can one know about things like instrument separation, reverb and delay tails, depth and width by reading specs? I don't have the option to audition both units of course, so i'm asking if anyone has done so.

Again - speaking from an engineers perspective, i deal with instrument separation, reverb and delay-tails all day long - and the suggestion that any DAC will change this, is quite frankly absurd. These kind of things are the result of very selective eq'ing, panning, dynamics processing, ect - and this applies to a mix situation, where i have control over all the separate elements. To change this in a master would require extremely specific processing, and no setting would result in better instrument separation across all material - so the idea that a specific DAC(chip) has these kinds of abilities, doesn't hold op .. at least to an engineer.

EDIT:
I'll offer you this, though:

The biggest improvement i've had in my studio in recent years (besides acoustics) was when i replaced my old analog monitor-controller with an ADI-2 Pro. On top of this, the ability to do a bit of corse room correction has paid off in time saved on mixing many times over smile .. So, depending on your setup, this aspect alone might be a very noticable improvement ..


I really don't understand your post friend.
Of course i am not expecting a DAC to somehow change the qualities of a mix, how could i?
I am simply talking of having the ability to listen more analytically, so that i can take better decisions while mixing. What's absurd about that?

You might read between the lines of Basken's excellent posts...

You asked for the engineer opinion, here it is: no differences concerning sound quality between ADI-2 FS, ADI-2 DAC FS or Pro.
Maybe you can measure it, but you won't hear it. These units outperform our ears by far. Even the difference between the DAC filters is really really thin... Yeah maybe the NOS is "warmer" (because it losses HF), but it is really not that important...

What matter for the sound quality? Speakers, speakers positioning, room treatment, active speaker correction... Like Basken said, the DAC/Pro EQ will really make a difference if you measure and correct your room. But an engineer won't upgrade the AK4490 RME DAC for the AK4493 RME DAC for sound quality... Those are topics for audiophiles' forum... Where the ESS Sabre is too analytical, the Wolfson warm, the AKM chocolate sounding etc.

ADI-2 DAC (with stock PSU) - Neumann KH 310 A monitors - Cheap USB and XLR cables

Re: ADI 2 FS vs DAC FS DA conversion

N00b wrote:

You asked for the engineer opinion, here it is: no differences concerning sound quality between ADI-2 FS, ADI-2 DAC FS or Pro.

Please excuse my lack of knowledge about different chips making no audible difference.
Yes, i asked about the engineer's opinion, which usually has a good balance between the measurement world and the audiophile world, especially if they are mastering engineers.

I just wanted to know if any engineer has actually A/B'ed those units. I know the ear and brain can easily be fooled, but still it's what we use to make records so, in addition to the scientific measurements,  i would love having the opinion of an engineer that has listened to both. I know the chances are little, but still i had to ask.

Sorry if these questions are somehow ignorant, i've been trying to make sense of all the information about these products from forum to forum and it's like a puzzle with missing pieces so far.

Thank you all for your time.

26 (edited by KaiS 2020-06-25 13:06:04)

Re: ADI 2 FS vs DAC FS DA conversion

I can understand you are confused when reading through all this reviews telling about the supposedly enormous sound differences of DAC's, amplifiers, even cables etc.


These people do not do level matched, blind, immediate A/B test, on some items like cables real A/B-ing simply isn't possible.

I don't say these "reviewers" ly intentionally, they're just fooling themselves by "hearing" what their prejustice wants them to hear.



I'm highend recording studio owner and engineer, and audio developer for decades now.


I did lots and lots of blind A/B tests on ADCs-DACs, amps and other audio equipment:

There are very tiny, audible differences with DAC's.
But - in a properly done, level matched blind A/B test they were hard to detect at the age of 16bit converters, even harder today as technologie has advanced further.


Same applies to most amplifiers, where little differences are usually caused by different impedance matching with electro-acoustic transducers like headphones.


Speakers and headphones is where you really have huge differences, no two sound the same.


You got your answer from my colleagues and me:
Don't let anybody tell you there are audible sound differences.
Choose what fits best to your demands and your wallet.

Re: ADI 2 FS vs DAC FS DA conversion

MC wrote:

This forum needs a thumbs up function...

Bitte!!   Make this So MC!  smile

Typical Basken.   The Perennial Voice of Reason.   Thanks Basken for your always insightful commentary!

On the Subject of Home Trials of products as costly as we're discussing...this is the ONLY way to get my business.   I've had expensive disappointments in the past, and had no recourse!   The Dealer would merely blame something else in my set up, and walk away.

30-45day Trials have become increasingly commonplace, and it is the only proven way to observe in your OWN set up that the new device works to your satisfaction!     In fact, We made a rather expensive audio purchase recently that included a 180 day Home Trial!!!   6 Months!!

Im good with that!!

Best to You,

Curt

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic AKM4490 Edition"
Cables:  Red, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes

Re: ADI 2 FS vs DAC FS DA conversion

KaiS wrote:

I did lots and lots of blind A/B tests on ADCs-DACs, amps and other audio equipment:
There are very tiny, audible differences with DAC's.
But - in a properly done, level matched blind A/B test they were hard to detect at the age of 16bit converters, even harder today as technologie has advanced further.


I sometimes have the impression that customers expect technical "progress" in terms of converter quality on a level similar to the way e.g. smartphones become better and better.... But that is obviously not the case...


Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

29 (edited by Curt962 2020-06-25 17:19:58)

Re: ADI 2 FS vs DAC FS DA conversion

Indeed Daniel. 

It seems to me that Converters such as the AKM,  were long ago far beyond the abilities of Human Hearing.   Bandwidth from DC to Daylight, S/N Ratios so great we could never truly appreciate (without Ear/Speaker Killing SPLs)

I see further advancements in the form of expanded features.   RMEs convenient means of easily accessing the amazing capabilities currently available (and far beyond those of supposed "reference" devices) are quite pleasing to me.   I guess perhaps that until better decoding of the "Soundstage" and "Warmth" Bit becomes possible.. big_smile

PS:  Never Overlook the "Emotionality" Bit!! 

My ADI-2 DAC will be a trusted friend here for a very long time.

I could go on all day...

Best to all

Enjoy!!

Curt

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic AKM4490 Edition"
Cables:  Red, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes

30 (edited by KaiS 2020-06-25 16:18:22)

Re: ADI 2 FS vs DAC FS DA conversion

What I really like is the selection of DA-filters available in the ADI-2 Pro and ADI-2 DAC.
The difference between these filters is bigger than between most DACs on the market.

If someone does not hear the filters difference - absolutely possible, the difference is not night and day - one should not look further for a new DAC.

Re: ADI 2 FS vs DAC FS DA conversion

Nope.

I see my "Old" RME living happily in my System for years to come.  And I'm a Picky old dude. smile

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic AKM4490 Edition"
Cables:  Red, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes

32 (edited by KaiS 2020-07-15 19:11:55)

Re: ADI 2 FS vs DAC FS DA conversion

And then then there is the "Phase Invert" switch:
the setting "Both", meaning to flip the phase of both left and right channel, has some effect on the perception of the lower frequencies.

I know this shouldn't be possible, but it's clearly audible to me.

This does not mean that I have a preference for one or the other setting, it depends on the headphones and the music played which one sounds better, "Off" or "Both".
Again not night and day, but still ...

33 (edited by Curt962 2020-06-25 17:02:18)

Re: ADI 2 FS vs DAC FS DA conversion

I can agree Kai.  The "Kick" of a Kick Drum should hit me first with a Compression...not a Rarefraction...but this can also be a rather tedious process.    I leave this to Studio Professionals...who often give me pause, and aren't paying the least attention to these matters wink 

Trust that Home Users rarely will.   Just getting BOTH SPEAKERS in-phase continues to be an ongoing challenge.

The Proper Polarity issue  DOES matter, yet...

Reminds me of Enid Lumley (TAS) who decades ago promoted rotating a Vinyl Record on the Platter in small increments to find the SPOT where Run-Out was the least.    Makes sense...but JEEZ!!

Could take a Month to play ONE ALBUM!  big_smile

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic AKM4490 Edition"
Cables:  Red, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes

Re: ADI 2 FS vs DAC FS DA conversion

RME Support wrote:
KaiS wrote:

I did lots and lots of blind A/B tests on ADCs-DACs, amps and other audio equipment:
There are very tiny, audible differences with DAC's.
But - in a properly done, level matched blind A/B test they were hard to detect at the age of 16bit converters, even harder today as technologie has advanced further.


I sometimes have the impression that customers expect technical "progress" in terms of converter quality on a level similar to the way e.g. smartphones become better and better.... But that is obviously not the case...


Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME


Hi Daniel,
no expectations here at all, i just asked what i thought was a simple question.
Did so, in order to know what to expect between the audio quality of these units.
If had that knowledge i would not ask such a thing.

Re: ADI 2 FS vs DAC FS DA conversion

Thank you all gentlemen for your input.

I am studying your insightful responses thoroughly.

Have a good one.

Re: ADI 2 FS vs DAC FS DA conversion

Hang in there John. 

Choose whichever RME best suits your needs!   You can't lose either way.    Best Wishes for a fine outcome.

Curt

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic AKM4490 Edition"
Cables:  Red, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes

Re: ADI 2 FS vs DAC FS DA conversion

John Mor wrote:

Thank you all for your replies.

I've read the specs and the measurements but
i would love to know if anyone has done a listening test between the two.


Only you can do such a subjective evaluation, in your room and system(or a friend or dealer set-up).

WY

CD Transport>optical>RME ADI-2 DAC FS(AKM)>XLR balanced >GLM software>Genelec Monitors 8340A