Topic: New user of ADI-2 A little help please

Hi all,
I am partially deaf, and wear hearing aids. I have just bought the ADI 2 DAC, and would like some advice on setup.

I am using it just as a dac, and connected to an Audia Flight 3S integrated amp. I mostly listen to classical music, but also jazz, pop,classical guitar etc. I am finding so far that the unit resolves very well, but the problem I have is I am finding the music tends to sound a bit bright overall. This unit is quite complicated with all the adjustments available - but this will no doubt be useful once I have got more used to using it.

Is there any quick way of making the sound a bit less bright, and a bit more musical - if that makes sense? Any help appreciated. I must say though it is a terrific bit of kit.

Mark

2 (edited by ramses 2020-08-28 16:52:44)

Re: New user of ADI-2 A little help please

Is your room treated ? Can you pls describe the room ? Do you have furniture (couches) or carpets or bare walls and tiles ?

Does the Treble control in the front help to reduce the amount of treble ?
Same - and even more - you can do by using the PEQ.

What speakers do you use ?

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: New user of ADI-2 A little help please

Thanks for the response ramses.

Should have given more info:-
Room is not treated, room size 4x4metres with couch one end - where i sit to listen. Big window to my left, and mostly bare walls. Carpeted floor.
Speakers are svs Prime pinnacle. Also using very good quality cables throughout. Will it be just a problem with treble - not sure it is.
Will try the treble control, and see if it helps.

Mark

Re: New user of ADI-2 A little help please

I probably have even more reflections than you, because I only have a carpet under the coffee table and otherwise only bare walls.
But ... I don't have any problems with my amp and speaker combination (Accuphase E-600, B&W 803D3).

Also .. the D/A converter plug-in module from Accuphase doesn't sound much different from the ADI-2 Pro FS R BE. By this I want to say, that RME IMHO does not over emphasize Treble / Brightness.

I could imagine that other listening habits might be involved, that the previous D/A converter might not have played completely transparent.

The ADI-2 Pro / DAC is in my experience completely ok no matter whether in front of High End HiFi or when Studio Monitors like Geithain RL906 are connected or phones like Audeze LCD-3 are being used.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: New user of ADI-2 A little help please

Hi Ramses
I have made some progress with making adjustments, so sounding a bit better now. I used to have accuphase pre/power & CD years ago, but sadly had to sell. Boy do I miss that set up - especially with Avalon Eidalon speakers too. I think I will get used to the ADI sound, and will gradually come to love it for the transparency it has. Perseverance is perhaps the key here, and I will get there in the end.
Thanks for your input, and good listening to you.

Mark

6 (edited by KaiS 2020-08-30 19:29:22)

Re: New user of ADI-2 A little help please

If you have to use hearing aids for listening on speakers you might get good or better results with high quality headphones.

This way you could bypass the hearing aids and, using the ADI-2, get a personalized equalizer curve.
ADI-2 even has the option for independent left and right equalizer settings.

For the speaker setting it might help to have something absorbent right at the back behind you to reduce wall reflections.

Re: New user of ADI-2 A little help please

KaiS wrote:

If you have to use hearing aids for listening on speakers you might get good or better results with high quality headphones.

This way you could bypass the hearing aids and, using the ADI-2, get a personalized equalizer curve.
ADI-2 even has the option for independent left and right equalizer settings.

For the speaker setting it might help to have something absorbent right at the back behind you to reduce wall reflections.

Hi Kais,
Many thanks for your suggestions - I do have headphones, but prefer listening via speakers. I think I will see if I can get a small rug to hang on the wall behind me to absorb some of the standing waves etc, besides that I am still learning about the host of adjustments available on the ADI, but taking things slowly.

Mark

Re: New user of ADI-2 A little help please

Hi all,

Can anyone confirm that the parametric equaliser roughly equates to bass/mid bass/mids/lower treble/upper treble when reading from left to right starting with red colour etc. Just wanted to know so I can adjust more accurately.

Mark

9 (edited by KaiS 2020-09-16 07:58:41)

Re: New user of ADI-2 A little help please

zen195345 wrote:

Can anyone confirm that the parametric equaliser roughly equates to bass/mid bass/mids/lower treble/upper treble when reading from left to right starting with red colour etc. Just wanted to know so I can adjust more accurately.

Yes, and you can shift the 5 bands over a wide range up and down.

On this page you can find a nice graph explaning what sound effect the frequency ranges have:
https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com/he … d-3-fazor/


One has to keep in mind:
Static EQ is only half of the story.
The absolute listening level has a great influence on how we receive different freqency ranges.
What sounds good and clear when listening on low level might sound harsh or overly bright when listening louder.

RME ADI-2's "Loudness" function takes care of balancing this, see manual page 14.

Re: New user of ADI-2 A little help please

zen195345 wrote:

Hi all,

Can anyone confirm that the parametric equaliser roughly equates to bass/mid bass/mids/lower treble/upper treble when reading from left to right starting with red colour etc. Just wanted to know so I can adjust more accurately.

Mark

I cannot confirm that. You can adjust the frequency of each band filter, so you can set the 5 bands between 1000 and 2000 Hz for instance.
One limitation: 3 bands at most under 200 Hz.

ADI-2 DAC (with stock PSU) - Neumann KH 310 A monitors - Cheap USB and XLR cables

11 (edited by KaiS 2020-09-16 09:14:48)

Re: New user of ADI-2 A little help please

N00b wrote:
zen195345 wrote:

Can anyone confirm that the parametric equaliser roughly equates to bass/mid bass/mids/lower treble/upper treble when reading from left to right starting with red colour etc. Just wanted to know so I can adjust more accurately.

I cannot confirm that. You can adjust the frequency of each band filter, so you can set the 5 bands between 1000 and 2000 Hz for instance.
One limitation: 3 bands at most under 200 Hz.

The other way round:
Band 1-3 cover the whole range 20Hz to 20kHz.
Band 4, 5 reaches from 200Hz-20kHz.

Re: New user of ADI-2 A little help please

Hi KaiS, many thanks for the graph - very helpful. I am looking to sweeten things up a touch. Having now got used to the sound I must admit this is a stonking unit. It resolves so much detail which is very nice. Any tips for sweetening the sound? would just like it to be a tad warmer/more musical if that makes sense. I have hung a tapestry on the wall just behind me to hopefully stop some of the standing waves. Many thanks for everybodys help - much appreciated.

KaiS wrote:
zen195345 wrote:

Can anyone confirm that the parametric equaliser roughly equates to bass/mid bass/mids/lower treble/upper treble when reading from left to right starting with red colour etc. Just wanted to know so I can adjust more accurately.

Yes, and you can shift the 5 bands over a wide range up and down.

On this page you can find a nice graph explaning what sound effect the frequency ranges have:
https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com/he … d-3-fazor/


One has to keep in mind:
Static EQ is only half of the story.
The absolute listening level has a great influence on how we receive different freqency ranges.
What sounds good and clear when listening on low level might sound harsh or overly bright when listening louder.

RME ADI-2's "Loudness" function takes care of balancing this, see manual page 14.

13 (edited by KaiS 2020-09-17 07:39:18)

Re: New user of ADI-2 A little help please

A tapestry in the back mainly reduces annoying treble reflections.

To reduce standing waves it would need to be large, heavy, and hanging at least 30cm in front of the wall.

But my guess is, standing waves are not your main problem.
They only appear in the bass range ca. 40-300Hz, and don't cause sharpness in sound.


To identify problematic frequencies a Real Time Analyser is the best tool.


The iPhone App Audio Tools, FFT part, by Andrew Smith / Studio Six Digital is a self contained App that doesn't need any additional hardware for precise measurements:
https://studiosixdigital.com

There's a 7 day try out period available.

If you want to use it I can guide you through the process.

Re: New user of ADI-2 A little help please

Hi KaiS,
I unfortunately don't have an Iphone - might be able to borrow one. Had a look on their site, but no android alternative. I think you are definitely right about my problems, and diagnostics is the way forward. Once again I am indebted to you for your help.

Mark

Re: New user of ADI-2 A little help please

There are a lot of older iPhones around, iOS11 / iPhone6 is all you need.
They go for a € on Ebay.

Re: New user of ADI-2 A little help please

Hi KaiS,
Will have a look - thanks.

Mark

Re: New user of ADI-2 A little help please

KaiS,

Will get the iphone as soon as I can, but can't yet. When I have got it I will let you know and help with the diagnostics etc will be most appreciated. In the meantime I have moved my Sofa forwards a bit, and moved the speakers - seems to have helped a bit.

Mark

18 (edited by Curt962 2020-09-21 16:20:51)

Re: New user of ADI-2 A little help please

Zen,

Is it possible for you to share with us your Listening Room dimensions?

That data, and maybe even a brief description of the Room, Furnishings. etc can be really helpful to the group in assessing the situation. 

A picture is worth a Thousand Words. smile

Thanks!

Curt

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic AKM4490 Edition"
Cables:  Red, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes

19 (edited by zen195345 2020-09-21 19:21:44)

Re: New user of ADI-2 A little help please

Curt962 wrote:

Zen,

Is it possible for you to share with us your Listening Room dimensions?

That data, and maybe even a brief description of the Room, Furnishings. etc can be really helpful to the group in assessing the situation. 

A picture is worth a Thousand Words. smile

Thanks!

Curt

Hi Curt,

Listening room is 3.9 metres x 3.35 metres block/brick walls. Hi-fi is setup on the long measurement of the room with the couch opposite. Have a large ish double glazed window on my left (as i sit on the couch) which is from waist height to ceiling
going to the back wall where the hi fi is situated. The other side of the room has a table and 4 chairs. The window has curtains which I can pull to alleviate some of the hard surface of the window. I have also pulled the sofa out from the wall which has helped a bit. My main problem is that the system still sounds a bit bright to me, and not as involving as I would like. I have tried moving the speakers further away from the back wall which seems to have helped control the bass better and allow more detail through. I must admit the ADI 2 seems to be a stonking bit o kit though. Just need to know how to get the best out of it.

System specs:-
Audia Flight 3 amp
Audiolab 6000CDT transport
SVS Prime pinnacle tower speakers
Wireworld power block
Audioquest NRG3 power cords
Hi Diamond Digital DGT+ CD to ADI2
Hi Diamond HD3 RCA cables ADI2 to amp
Hi Diamond 8 speaker cables.

The speakers are supposed to be neutral in sound, and the amp and cables were supposed to make things sound more musical, and dare I say it warmer. I suspect apart from room problems - a large part of the problem is my hearing aids - which I am hoping to get more adjustments done on Thursday this week. I think room correction would be a good idea - but I have zero experience in that so need guidance. Any suggestions to improve matters would be most helpful. There does seem to be a great bunch of knowledgeable and helpful people on here. I will try to get a photo of the room/setup done tomorrow.

Mark

Re: New user of ADI-2 A little help please

Mark,

Thanks for the Information.   I'm sorry that I'm a late-comer to the discussion, but am I correct that you are perceiving "brightness" that has you perplexed?

A Room with lots of Reflective Walls such as yours would surely be a Suspect!

Hmm. EQ or DRC won't fix that satisfactorily IMO. 

You need a helper!   You sit in your Main Listening Chair, as the helper moves a mirror at Speaker height along the side walls.

When You see a Speaker in the Mirror?  Boom!  That's a Reflection Point!  See how this goes??

Go through the Linen Closet, and find a nice Puffy Blanket, and Tack it there!  Same for the other side.

I'm thinking that even a minimalist Room Acoustic Treatment would go far for you!

Let's start with Basics!!   "Reflections 101"   

Shoot a pic from the listening position to my email.   We just might be able to help. 

Best to You!

Curt

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic AKM4490 Edition"
Cables:  Red, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes

Re: New user of ADI-2 A little help please

Looks like the cables did cost 4 or more times what the speakers did.


For the moment you could try to EQ a bit with ADI.

Starting point could be:
G: -3dB, f: 2500Hz, Q:0.6
Then play around with f a bit until you found the optimum, then G, then Q.

This could reduce the typical weirdness around the speaker's upper x-over transition between midrange driver and tweeter.

22 (edited by zen195345 2020-09-21 22:31:24)

Re: New user of ADI-2 A little help please

Thanks guys for the above 2 posts, and suggestions - thank you. Will try these out and get back to you as soon as I can.
Curt - will try to get the picture of the room to you tomorrow.

Thanks again

Mark
Ps I got some of the cables ex demo etc - could not afford at full price;)

23 (edited by Curt962 2020-09-21 22:52:43)

Re: New user of ADI-2 A little help please

No Problem Zen!

Just saying...I've been in too many Commuter Flats where nothing less than the Hand of God would help.

Sibilants ("Ssss" sounds) were like a Nail pounded into your Ear.

Let's kill the First Reflections (Mirror Points) first.   EQ is helpful, but only secondary.   Multiple Crazy Reflections not only hurt sound...they also trash any thought you might have had regarding Stereo Imaging. 

Gone.

You'll need your Wife on Board!!  Many Wives have a Dim View of Acoustic Treatments.  But!!  It doesn't have to be ugly.  smile   Ultimately!!  She'll enjoy the Music with you!!

Your RME is giving you a fine Signal.  Let's do what we can to preserve that.

Best!

Curt

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic AKM4490 Edition"
Cables:  Red, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes

Re: New user of ADI-2 A little help please

Hi Curt,
How do I attach a photo to an e mail on here - if I was e mailing directly it wouldn't be a problem. I will definitely do the mirror to find the spots, but what do I then put in those areas? Would insulation boards do the job or what? Sorry for all the questions, but I m determined to make the most of the RME signal as you suggest.

Mark

Re: New user of ADI-2 A little help please

Forum mail is usually not intended to send big mails with an attachment.
What you can do is to store the picture in the usual format (JPEG or PNG) to cloud storage and to either mail or post the link here on forum.
Good cloud storage to do that is dropbox, because the you can use this forums image tags, so that a picture can directly being loaded by your browser when reading a message. See here in my blog how to post pictures:
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/ind … rum-EN-DE/

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: New user of ADI-2 A little help please

Hi Curt,
Hope this works - link to dropbox folder with photos:-

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ropdz2rzrt2h … a1LEa?dl=0

Mark

Re: New user of ADI-2 A little help please

Yes.  What Ramses said.  smile

A free image hosting service works perfectly.  See Ramses blog for more details.

As for your query into WHAT you might apply to reflection points... "Roxul" is a fairly inexpensive, and commonly used material for this purpose.   Find that at a Home Improvement store, in the Insulation department.    Note however, ANY insulating material can release tiny particles into the Air within your living space.  Not really good to breathe. Were you to decide to make a few Roxul panels, a simple cloth wrapping contains any stray fibers with no fuss.

Go for it!!

Curt

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic AKM4490 Edition"
Cables:  Red, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes

Re: New user of ADI-2 A little help please

zen195345 wrote:

Hi Curt,
Hope this works - link to dropbox folder with photos:-

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ropdz2rzrt2h … a1LEa?dl=0

Mark

I saw the Pics Mark.  Thanks.  I'm relieved that we're not working with "The Hall of Mirrors"   Whew!!  smile

The Room certainly has a lot of stuff in it, so it's not an empty Man-Cave.  Be that as it may, Im not seeing anything absorptive.    It also appears that the speakers are different distances from the Front Wall, and presumably different distances from your listening chair.  Not ideal in the grand scheme of things.

Let's start small.  Identify the Mirror points on your side walls, and tack a big puffy blanket there.  Both sides.  Let's get some proof of concept before we send you shopping for materials.

Keep at it!

Curt

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic AKM4490 Edition"
Cables:  Red, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes

29 (edited by KaiS 2020-09-22 17:47:58)

Re: New user of ADI-2 A little help please

The most efficient absorbers I know are from "Basotect", based on Melaminresin.
They don't come too cheap, but look acceptable (pure white).
It's a BASF product:
https://plastics-rubber.basf.com/global … otect.html

https://www.amazon.de/Schaumstoff-Schal … B079LHQ19F

They are available in lot's of different shapes.
Even with printed pictures or such, e.g.:
https://stoffklang.de/produkt/akustikbi … r-quadrat/

Re: New user of ADI-2 A little help please

Curt & KaiS - thanks again guys - will do the mirror job tomorrow. Really need to tidy up the room. Lol. Embarrassed.

Mark

31 (edited by KaiS 2020-09-22 21:53:53)

Re: New user of ADI-2 A little help please

A good room is the base for everything.

There's a reason that we invest 5 figure $ into the accoustics of a recording studio's control room.

32 (edited by Curt962 2020-09-23 00:26:07)

Re: New user of ADI-2 A little help please

zen195345 wrote:

Curt & KaiS - thanks again guys - will do the mirror job tomorrow. Really need to tidy up the room. Lol. Embarrassed.

Mark

Thanks Mark.   This is the fun aspect of Audio.  As for your Room?  We will be conducting Inspections on Thursday, so you have a bit of time.
smile smile

Curt

https://i.ibb.co/PjbfJRS/rod25.gif

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic AKM4490 Edition"
Cables:  Red, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes

Re: New user of ADI-2 A little help please

Curt,

Lol wink

Mark

34 (edited by Curt962 2020-09-23 12:34:00)

Re: New user of ADI-2 A little help please

Hiya Mark,

While your locating Mirror Points on your Sidewalls today (they're on the Ceiling too, but use caution, and have a helper on hand before you engage in any Gymnastics high atop a Ladder.

Let's add a Cursory test to the Mix.   

The "Hand Clap"    Just Clap your Hands.  What do you hear?  A nice Hand Clap, or a sound akin to firing a Small Caliber hand gun in the room?

Think back to when you first moved to your House.  Empty Rooms,Bare Walls, etc.  It was like an Echo Chamber.  Remember?

https://www.acousticfields.com/flutter- … 0surfaces.

We're going to tame this down, and your perceived Brightness matter will go away with it!!

Have Fun!

Curt

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic AKM4490 Edition"
Cables:  Red, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes

35 (edited by zen195345 2020-09-23 13:58:15)

Re: New user of ADI-2 A little help please

Hi Curt,

Have done the mirror - but only on the side walls, forgot about the ceiling, will do this later. I was surprised at how little an area it was in width - about 12 inches. The area on the lh side where the window is was half way down the length of the cd storage. I am presuming that the slight unevenness of the cd's in the rack will tame that side?

As for the speaker positions themselves they are both 25 inches from the rear wall but 23.5 and 43.5 from the side wall. I know speakers don't like being in the corners of rooms, but I am a little limited on positions bearing in mind the listening position should be at the point of the equilateral triangle - that is why the rh speaker is 43.5 from the side wall on that side of the room. Is this the right way to go?

KaiS post above suggested trying adjustments of For the moment you could try to EQ a bit with ADI.

Starting point could be:
G: -3dB, f: 2500Hz, Q:0.6
Then play around with f a bit until you found the optimum, then G, then Q.
Do I take it that the frequency has the biggest impact on sound brightness etc? Which is the best way to go with gain, and quality, I assume down to reduce brightness. Sorry for all the questions but this is a learning curve for me. I tried these adjustments and they have helped a little, but weirdly the volume seemed to be less,need to do more listening with EQ on/off for comparison.

I will look in to ordering panels as suggested for behind the listening position/ceiling/side wall. Anything else I should be aware of?

Thanks again to all who have chimed in here to help - very much appreciated.

Mark

36 (edited by Curt962 2020-09-23 15:21:54)

Re: New user of ADI-2 A little help please

Mark,

Mirror Points (First Reflection Points) are not themselves terribly large.   They play a big role though!   

The CD Cabinet MIGHT offer you a bit of Scattering.   This can be desirable in certain instances. 

As for Speaker Placement, we do what we can within the confines of practicality.  I totally understand.  I like your Equilateral Triangle (Stereophonic Basics 101) , let's just be really fussy.  Both Speakers Toed/Tilted exactly the same, etc.   I get rather Obsessive/Compulsive about that.  smile   Tweaking the amount of Toe In the get the most sharply defined phantom center image. 

With HF EQ, I too like to "Paint" with a Broader Brush.  In that Frequency Range, we're dealing with VERY short wavelengths.  A targeted eq at some specific frequency up there is only good for ONE Listening Position.  Move your head an inch, and the entire acoustic landscape changes.  So in summary, a very Low-Q filter parked at...ehh let's say 2.5khz would allow you to raise/lower the entire treble range.  The RME PEQ makes this easy.  Essentially, Kais and myself are saying the same thing.  Those Low Q filters sure are helpful in a situation such as this. 

Keep with it!!

PS: Where are you in the World?   This is a rather international group!

Best,

Curt

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic AKM4490 Edition"
Cables:  Red, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes

37 (edited by KaiS 2020-09-23 20:22:01)

Re: New user of ADI-2 A little help please

zen195345 wrote:

KaiS post above suggested trying adjustments of For the moment you could try to EQ a bit with ADI.

Starting point could be:
G: -3dB, f: 2500Hz, Q:0.6
Then play around with F a bit until you found the optimum, then G, then Q.
Do I take it that the frequency has the biggest impact on sound brightness etc? Which is the best way to go with gain, and quality, I assume down to reduce brightness.


... have helped a little, but weirdly the volume seemed to be less,need to do more listening with EQ on/off for comparison.

EQ is a quick and dirty solution, to better the situation, that does not replace acoustic treatment of the room.


I've described to the usual way to adjust an EQ by ear.

1. If something is annoying you reduce the suspicious frequency range.
2. Try to find the most effective frequency, by tuning "F" up and down until you are at an optimum.
3. Then, with broadening or narrowing the "Q" and adjusting the amount of reduction "G" optimize those settings.

I wouldn't do too much A/B-ing EQ vs Linear, this only leads to confusion.
Concentrate on if you like the results or not.



The broadband EQ reduction of the upper mid range, where the ear is quite sensitive, reduces the perceived loudness level, this is normal.



For A/B-ing with and without EQ you can either use the Volume Control to counteract, or TEMPORARLY use the following setting to adjust the EQ's overall Gain (Loudness):

Band1
G: (adjust for same perceived loudness, with or without EQ), ca. +1.5 (dB)
F: 20.0k (kHz)
Q: 7.5
Type: Shelving, looks like " > ".

This setting gives an almost only frequency independent gain control to "lift" the whole EQ curve up above the center line, hence louder, for testing purpose.

When done, remove it by setting "G" to zero.

Re: New user of ADI-2 A little help please

Mark!

You went quiet on us.  Have you made any progress on your end?  We'd be delighted to hear!!

This is the Fun Stuff Man!

Curt

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic AKM4490 Edition"
Cables:  Red, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes

Re: New user of ADI-2 A little help please

Curt962 wrote:

Mark!

You went quiet on us.  Have you made any progress on your end?  We'd be delighted to hear!!

This is the Fun Stuff Man!

Curt

Hi Curt,

Sorry about that but have health issues that get in the way sometimes - still on the case, but need to mark the places on the ceiling before ordering panels. Talking of which, I assume I will need to stick some panels on the wall behind where I sit on the couch - but not sure how much of this wall should be treated - trial and error I assume?

I am definitely making progress with all your folks help on here - just a bit slow. I'll be back. Lol.

Mark

40 (edited by Curt962 2020-09-25 13:41:46)

Re: New user of ADI-2 A little help please

Hi Mark,

First of all, Feel Better!!   Trust that some fine sounds will go far in promoting your prompt return to good health.

Let's focus for the moment on the Ceiling/Sidewall Mirror Points.   We'll get to the Front/Back walls next.  Rome wasn't built in a day.  smile

Yes though, some acoustic treatment on those walls would certainly be in order.   If Flutter-Echo is suspected, dampening such opposed surfaces is a logical next step.   

Til then...

Soldier Onward, and Get Well.

Curt

https://i.ibb.co/ZVD3gJd/rod11.gif

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic AKM4490 Edition"
Cables:  Red, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes

Re: New user of ADI-2 A little help please

Hi curt.
Thanks Curt - feel better already. Will get some help with marking the ceiling points later. I am determined to get to a point of really being able to enjoy my music again. How long it takes is not important, but getting there is.

Mark

Re: New user of ADI-2 A little help please

Mark,

Here's an idea of what others have done in their Rooms.  Color Panels, Art Panels, etc.   You can very tastefully treat a room! 

https://i.ibb.co/3hrcBjw/242-Acoustic-Panels-Different-Size.jpg

Photo stolen from www.gikacoustics.com

Feel free to Drool!  smile

Curt

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic AKM4490 Edition"
Cables:  Red, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes

43 (edited by KaiS 2020-09-25 17:48:54)

Re: New user of ADI-2 A little help please

One large surface that can be treated easily:

The Floor - it's always creating the first reflection, and it's the largest surface, so is important (ceiling is equally large, but harder to treat, practically).

A carpet, or a 2nd, thick, soft carpet on top of the carpet flooring), works wonders to control both, 1st reflection and room reverberation.


In that context: raising the speakers a little, even if built as "floor standing", has a large impact on the upper bass frequency response, and shifts the first reflection to "later".


If you sit on a sofa, relatively low, the time difference between direct sound and floor reflection is quite short.
Having this reflection later and/or weaker improves intelligibility and transparency.

This can be especially important if you use a hearing aid, that partly removes the ability to differentiate between direct and reflected sound.

Re: New user of ADI-2 A little help please

Oh yes indeed.  A large expanse of Bare Floor is akin to an Amusement Park for Sound Energy.   Combined with a Bare Ceiling?   Flutter Echo Heaven!

Absolutely, a Large, Non-Skid area Rug would undoubtedly lead to a very audible step forward for you Mark!!

Sorry..no Thick Cables, nor Blinking Lights, but I'd wager it helps considerably!   Keeps your Feet Warm too!

Best!

Curt

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic AKM4490 Edition"
Cables:  Red, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes

45 (edited by zen195345 2020-09-26 12:40:46)

Re: New user of ADI-2 A little help please

Morning all,
Thanks for all the excellent tips again above. Will go rug hunting soon. I have made further progress as I have now marked the points that need treating on the ceiling. Would this panel be the right thing to get - can always cut to size.:-

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00E62NBOU/ … s9dHJ1ZQ==

Hope the link works - if so I will order today and treat the side walls/ceiling first. Making progress. Have now ordered a nice rug for the floor - should help.

Mark

Re: New user of ADI-2 A little help please

Curt - those coloured panels look fab - will cover mine when I get them.

Cheers

Mark

47 (edited by KaiS 2020-09-26 13:54:34)

Re: New user of ADI-2 A little help please

zen195345 wrote:

Morning all,
Thanks for all the excellent tips again above. Will go rug hunting soon. I have made further progress as I have now marked the points that need treating on the ceiling. Would this panel be the right thing to get - can always cut to size.:-

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00E62NBOU/ … s9dHJ1ZQ==

Hope the link works - if so I will order today and treat the side walls/ceiling first. Making progress. Have now ordered a nice rug for the floor - should help.

Mark

That's what the doctor prescribed.

If it's optically acceptable, they work best with a little distance, 1-10cm, to the back surface. The larger the distance the more they dampen out mid range sound.

It's better to use the 3 cm, as in your link above, and place them with a distance than to use the thicker ones.
The result is a more balanced frequency response in the reflection.


For the ceiling it's not to cut them to size, but stick them together for a larger area.
I suggest two or three of them.
If you stick in long pins, metal or wood, you can connect them together.

For the critical areas on the sidewalls one 120x60cm each should be just the right size.

48 (edited by zen195345 2020-09-26 15:48:32)

Re: New user of ADI-2 A little help please

Hi Kais,

Not to sure what you mean when you say " If it's optically acceptable, they work best with a little distance, 1-10cm, to the back surface. The larger the distance the more they dampen out mid range sound."

Can you explain to this numpty. lol. I will need 3 panels for the ceiling, and one each for side walls, then worry about front/back walls after.

Thanks again for your invaluable help.

Mark

49 (edited by KaiS 2020-09-26 18:19:48)

Re: New user of ADI-2 A little help please

zen195345 wrote:

Hi Kais,

Not to sure what you mean when you say " If it's optically acceptable, they work best with a little distance, 1-10cm, to the back surface. The larger the distance the more they dampen out mid range sound."

Can you explain to this numpty. lol. I will need 3 panels for the ceiling, and one each for side walls, then worry about front/back walls after.

Thanks again for your invaluable help.

Mark

I meant:

Mounting the panels with a little air gap to the wall / ceiling improves their efficiency towards the midrange.
This avoids an unbalanced room sound, where only treble is damped.


And yes, I forgot the wall behind you, one or two panels I'd estimate.

The wall behind the speakers does benefit the least from damping.
Leaving it undamped can improve the liveliness and transparency of the sound.

Too many panels will overdamp the room, but this has to be tried out.

Re: New user of ADI-2 A little help please

Thanks KaiS - I thought that was what you meant. Great. I have ordered the panels, and am very much looking forward to trying them out. I have also stood the speakers on about a half inch book - seems to have helped a bit. I was thinking of sitting them on a piece of insulation board ( The type they put between walls in buildings ) a good idea you think or too much height, about 1.5 inches?

Cheers
Mark