Topic: ADI-2 DAC as DAC Pre amp?

Does anyone have experience of using a ADI-2 DAC directly feeding a Naim NAP power amp please?
I have tried a few other pre amps and DACs directly into my power amp but for some reason, they all sound quite dull when compared to the ‘proper’ borrowed Naim front end.

I can’t afford a Naim pre amp (even a used one) and I don’t subscribe to the view that it has to be a Naim pre or it won’t work,  so I continue to look for alternatives which might work.

I may well ending up buying an ADI-2 to try this out, but I thought I would ask first. :0)

Cheers, Paul.

Re: ADI-2 DAC as DAC Pre amp?

Hi, yes you can do this, I have done this in the past with a NAP250 and it works well. Your general idea of using the RME as a pre-amp is a good one, plus you can leverage all the EQ processing and loudness functions of the RME, if you want to.

I am a former Naim pre-amp owner and I like their products very much but when you look at the amount of money you are spending, and what you get for that, then the use of the RME makes a lot of sense, is just as good sonically, and more flexible too, unless you really have a need for lots of analogue inputs, which I do not.

RPi4 | RME ADI-2 Pro FS R BE | Senn HD600 | Tisbury Mini Pre | Teddy Pardo i80d | Naim SBL

Re: ADI-2 DAC as DAC Pre amp?

Sure.

BR
Ramses
X10SRi-F, E5-1650v4, Win10Pro20H2, Cub11 Pro, UFX+, XTC, 12Mic, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, ARC USB

4 (edited by ezra-s 2020-10-30 21:16:14)

Re: ADI-2 DAC as DAC Pre amp?

Adi-2 DAC FS as preamp is simply amazing in my experience.

As for dull sound... Remember to enable "Loudness" and how to set it up according to the manual so at lower volumes you get the bass and treble ideal for you. (level in loudness should be about -25db less than the normal volume you usually listen to for long periods, more or less)

As preamp usage remember to set autoref level on too, if the amp has input gain volume set it as low as possible so DAC reaches about -10dBr or so near or at max volume you will listen to (the higher it gets in the DAC the better up to 0dBr I think for dynamic range, although someone here may give you more detailed accurate info about this).

Re: ADI-2 DAC as DAC Pre amp?

Thank you for your reply’s it’s encouraging to hear from others who have tried.

Perhaps I should explain what I mean by ‘dull’ sounding, I borrowed a Chord TT2 using the TT2 DAC as a DAC pre feeding straight into my NAP, I found the sound to be very resolving  but it wasn’t as engaging (what ever that means), perhaps I have got used to a very coloured sound?

Re: ADI-2 DAC as DAC Pre amp?

Hi - I use both of my RME adi 2 fs as pre.
One of them with Quad 520 im my TV room and another with JBL UREI 6260. Both of this vintage end-amps work great with this RME gems.

7 (edited by KaiS 2020-10-31 02:05:20)

Re: ADI-2 DAC as DAC Pre amp?

ezra-s wrote:

As preamp usage remember to set autoref level on too, if the amp has input gain volume set it as low as possible so DAC reaches about -10dBr or so near or at max volume you will listen to (the higher it gets in the DAC the better up to 0dBr I think for dynamic range, although someone here may give you more detailed accurate info about this).

With Auto Reference Level "On" the DAC reaches it's full dynamic range at -18dBr, because Auto Ref cares for optimized analog adaption.

If you dial higher, Auto Ref switches to the next analog level step.
But I don't think Naim likes very hot levels.
+3 dBu drives the NAP500 to full scale 140 W, according to it's specs.

Anyway - let Auto Reference Level do it's job and you're fine.

Re: ADI-2 DAC as DAC Pre amp?

Thanks KiaS,

I have had a quick look at the user instructions, I can see that the ADI-2 is more flexible than most DACs, I will have to read it properly to understand it better. I expect it is worth while getting set up right especially with regard to the volume range.

It is my understanding that Naim power amps require approx. 1V for full output, and present  an 18k ohm single ended input impedance, I am sure that this is well within the drive capabilities of the ADI-2

9 (edited by KaiS 2020-10-31 18:12:11)

Re: ADI-2 DAC as DAC Pre amp?

Roog wrote:

It is my understanding that Naim power amps require approx. 1V for full output, and present  an 18k ohm single ended input impedance, I am sure that this is well within the drive capabilities of the ADI-2

The ADI-2 DAC can drive almost anything.
Impedance is not an issue with line level interconnects at all, simply ignore it.

Anyway - as most people don't have a clue what impedance is, the term is mostly misused and misunderstood as sensitivity - it's not.

Only for headphones, impedance is VERY LOOSELY connected to the loudness that can be achieved from a certain player.


For preamp to power amp connection the only important value is voltage capability on the preamp, and voltage sensitivity on the power amp.

As the ADI-2 DAC / ADI-2 PRO are so flexible with reference level they fit themself automatically (Auto Reference Level) to almost every power amp existing.


Additionally, as the DAC's have such a huge dynamic range, there is quite some level margin that changes not the slightest bit in the perceived sound.


It's not 1990 anymore, where the DACs had 16 bits and a dynamic range of 88 dB at best -  which soundwise still isn't to be considered as bad today.
Did you ever hear a noisy (16bit-) CD player – I didn't.

It's 2020, you have 120 dB + dynamic range, reference that to to above - it's complete overkill.
So if you spend a few dB's here or there into convenience, don't worry.
You still got the full quality of the recording you put in.

Most recordings are delivered in 16 bit today.
Or if delivered on higher resolution it's only blown up from the original 16 bit master, with no additional quality put into.

Believe me, I am in the record business and I know how that works, my clients asked me to do that too.

Re: ADI-2 DAC as DAC Pre amp?

KaiS wrote:

...With Auto Reference Level "On" the DAC reaches it's full dynamic range at -18dBr, because Auto Ref cares for optimized analog adaption....

Thanks for the info, I didn't know the exact point, great info!

Re: ADI-2 DAC as DAC Pre amp?

Roog wrote:

Thanks KiaS,

I have had a quick look at the user instructions, I can see that the ADI-2 is more flexible than most DACs, I will have to read it properly to understand it better. I expect it is worth while getting set up right especially with regard to the volume range.

It is my understanding that Naim power amps require approx. 1V for full output, and present  an 18k ohm single ended input impedance, I am sure that this is well within the drive capabilities of the ADI-2

2 things..

First. For your comments you don't really know what jewel you were going to get when you acquired the ADI-2.
Second. It is great to be at first, because you get to discover all the amazing features of this little beast.

Re: ADI-2 DAC as DAC Pre amp?

In reference to recordings...Kai is 100% On Point!! 

Far too much mis-information in Audio.   "BS Über Alles"     

Not here on this Forum! 

Oh Man!   I have data that suggests much of what is disguised as "High Res" is nothing more than an upsampled copy of a 44/16 Master.  My Son ripped a few apart, and showed me the absolute NON difference.

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic Edition"
Cables:  Red Ones, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes (2)

13 (edited by KaiS 2020-11-01 03:28:37)

Re: ADI-2 DAC as DAC Pre amp?

Curt962 wrote:

In reference to recordings...Kai is 100% On Point!! 

Far too much mis-information in Audio.   "BS Über Alles"     

Not here on this Forum! 

Oh Man!   I have data that suggests much of what is disguised as "High Res" is nothing more than an upsampled copy of a 44/16 Master.  My Son ripped a few apart, and showed me the absolute NON difference.

It's been a common and valid practice to transfer old recordings into a succeeding format.

E.g.:
• When Vinyl Disc came out old Shellac Disks were transferred to it.
• When the CD came out old recordings of all kind were released on the new format, sometimes marked as "AAD", sometimes without further notice.
• Today High Res is en vogue, so the recording industry supplies to this demand.



I've heard a lot of High Res recordings from "Tidal Master" lately, and it's a two sided sword:


The good:
Some are recordings, produced in Hi Res from start to end.
Some are remastered without the "Loudness War" squashed dynamics of earlier releases.
Some are well made re-transfers of the original analog or digital master tapes.


The bad:
Remasters in the opposite direction, pushing up the level even more, losing every dynamics.


The ugly:
Well-intended but failed new transfers of the original analog tapes, which at this time are deteriorated and have lost the original quality.
Obviously the audio engineer had no other chance, or did not notice it, things like wandering stereo balance due to playback head contamination, or obvious dropouts from dirt, and split and re-splices tape cuts.


The whatever:
The huge number of upsampled (content-wise) 1:1 copies of the original releases, without any change in sound quality.
These are easily detectable, if you look at their spectrogram there is no content above the original releases' Nylquist frequency, besides some low level noise and artifacs.



Efforts have been taken to "reconstruct" the missing frequency part, replacing it with artificial signals.
If this makes sense I can't decide.
In theory this could work, practically I would call it distortions - in the inaudible part of the spectrum.


Because of all that mentioned above, it's really hard to tell if Hi Res really is an advantage, any comparison usually is invalid, is apples to pie.
Finally it's just another flavor I guess.

14 (edited by Curt962 2020-11-01 04:06:41)

Re: ADI-2 DAC as DAC Pre amp?

Once again Kai, I think we agree.

I'm torn however.   

I have much 44/16 material that is stunning. (ie:  Cantus: "All is Calm")

Recordings that shine as a result of painstaking recording technique.  Not "sample rate"

I also have a few Hi-Res that impress!   A few selections from Bach's "Brandenburg Concertos" that simply "Illuminate" the Room with their presence.   You quite literally FEEL the Musicians taking their positions...even before the First Note sounds.  Sample Rate?   I think not.

Well...with Christmas/Weihnacht not so far away, I must ensure that my Gear is reproducing the Vocal Ensembles, and Choirs properly! I will NOT ALLOW the presentation of "Stille Nacht" (Mohr/Grüber) to be disturbed.  Of course...the German Children's Choirs are always welcome! 

Curt

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic Edition"
Cables:  Red Ones, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes (2)

Re: ADI-2 DAC as DAC Pre amp?

Curt962 wrote:

I also have a few Hi-Res that impress!   A few selections from Bach's "Brandenburg Concertos" that simply "Illuminate" the Room with their presence.   You quite literally FEEL the Musicians taking their positions...even before the First Note sounds.  Sample Rate?   I think not

Which one is it?

I like the Brandenburg Concerto's if not performed to "dry", because the  composition is a bit dry by itself, if the interpretation is to literally - which I guess wasn't meant by Mr. Bach when he wrote it down.

Re: ADI-2 DAC as DAC Pre amp?

Kai,

These were selections from a Linn Records Album conducted by John Butt.   I may need correction here...

Really FINE Performance!

Curt

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic Edition"
Cables:  Red Ones, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes (2)

17 (edited by Curt962 2020-11-01 04:44:13)

Re: ADI-2 DAC as DAC Pre amp?

Kai?  And all other Bach admirers.

Why not drop in on our Local Classical Radio Program: "Biscuits and Bach"!!

Sontag Morgen!   ca 1200 DE uhr! (0700 Eastern US)

Schön!

www.wdav.org

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic Edition"
Cables:  Red Ones, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes (2)

Re: ADI-2 DAC as DAC Pre amp?

KaiS thank you for your explanation on Hi-res, I suspected as much!
I mainly use CD quality so it is generally of little concern to me.
I completely agree with you regarding dynamic range and noise, much is blurted out about noise on forums by people who have no real understanding, it’s just buzz words and as long as they are seen to be spending more than others they must be able to hear an improvement.
I have been reading D Self on small signal design and he puts things into perspective.

Your collective enthusiasm for the ADI-2 is a comfort, it looks like I’ll be giving it a go in the near future.

Re: ADI-2 DAC as DAC Pre amp?

Good Morning Roog!

We Collectively Wish you would go with the RME!   It's a Wonderful piece of Kit, and?   You get all of US at no extra cost!

Welcome Aboard Mate!!

Curt

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic Edition"
Cables:  Red Ones, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes (2)

Re: ADI-2 DAC as DAC Pre amp?

Listen to Curt! I have no affiliation with RME whatsoever, but am a very happy user, like many here. You really are not taking any risk in buying a Pro or DAC.

RPi4 | RME ADI-2 Pro FS R BE | Senn HD600 | Tisbury Mini Pre | Teddy Pardo i80d | Naim SBL

Re: ADI-2 DAC as DAC Pre amp?

David,

Thanks for your Kind Words!

None of us here are Paid Spokespersons.  We're merely Satisfied Customers, who will reach to any length in support of a Very Fine Product!

Curt

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic Edition"
Cables:  Red Ones, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes (2)

Re: ADI-2 DAC as DAC Pre amp?

Cheers all,

It’s great that we have this forum and that people like me can ask silly questions in relative safety!
As you high light it is a low risk purchase and even if it doesn’t end up in my main stereo system I am sure that it will make a great head phone amp for my study, aka, my box room!

I will report back when I try it.

23 (edited by Curt962 2020-11-01 21:57:28)

Re: ADI-2 DAC as DAC Pre amp?

Roog!  Thank You! 

I'm on assignment,  2000 miles from my Gear, and posts such as yours give me a degree of happiness!

Your Excitement is FUEL for our Engines!  Buy the RME, and see for yourself why we are the way we are! smile

I'm not discussing BS.   An RME is a 6-8-10yr proposition.  Good Stuff!  Do it!!!!

Curt

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic Edition"
Cables:  Red Ones, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes (2)

24 (edited by Curt962 2020-11-14 00:30:22)

Re: ADI-2 DAC as DAC Pre amp?

KaiS wrote:
Curt962 wrote:

I also have a few Hi-Res that impress!   A few selections from Bach's "Brandenburg Concertos" that simply "Illuminate" the Room with their presence.   You quite literally FEEL the Musicians taking their positions...even before the First Note sounds.  Sample Rate?   I think not

Which one is it?

I like the Brandenburg Concerto's if not performed to "dry", because the  composition is a bit dry by itself, if the interpretation is to literally - which I guess wasn't meant by Mr. Bach when he wrote it down.

Not to Hijack Roog's Thread...but here we go anyway!

@KaiS

My Son, and I looked at the Brandenburg Concerto No.3 192/24 (Dunedin Consort/John Butt) under Spectral Analysis.   We see the highest likely "legitimate/fundamental" tone at 7khz, with something trailing off to near 35khz at times.  VERY LOW LEVEL.  Noise?

As Wonderful as the Recording is, we saw NOTHING in it's make up that could not easily be handled by 44/16 CD Audio.    I can't hear low level 35khz...or even HIGH LEVEL 35khz for that matter. big_smile

I love the recording, so based on our findings I bought the CD Quality download.  Why pay 75% more for nothing?   I have strong doubts that I could distinguish it from the 192khz sample in a blind test.  wink

Curt

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic Edition"
Cables:  Red Ones, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes (2)

25 (edited by Roog 2020-11-13 23:48:31)

Re: ADI-2 DAC as DAC Pre amp?

I’ll have a listen to the concerto later.

News update: ADI-2 now on order!

We shall see how well it works with my NAP

Re: ADI-2 DAC as DAC Pre amp?

Roog!

Congrats on your RME purchase!   You're going to be thrilled!

Curt

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic Edition"
Cables:  Red Ones, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes (2)

27 (edited by Roog 2020-11-14 11:59:34)

Re: ADI-2 DAC as DAC Pre amp?

I am looking forward to it, I will be thrilled if it proves to be the right match for my power amp.

Next on the list will be a new streamer, the Bluesound node 2i looks to be the front runner at the moment, having a good range of streaming options built-in and what appears, (from my viewing of many youtube vids) to be a good user interface. This is most important for me and my missus who loves 'The Stereo', it's like a bleed'in disco in the house at the moment!  :0)

28 (edited by Curt962 2020-11-14 13:11:04)

Re: ADI-2 DAC as DAC Pre amp?

Roog,

Which Amp are you using?   No matter, the ADI-2 DAC is very adaptable!

Streamers are Cool.  I couldn't imagine life without one.   Buy whatever suits you best, and Rock On straight ahead.   

Oh! .. and "Missus" loving the Set Up is perhaps the GREATEST Audio Accessory ever!   

In the meantime, download the RME User Manual, and Dig In!   smile

Best!

Curt

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic Edition"
Cables:  Red Ones, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes (2)

Re: ADI-2 DAC as DAC Pre amp?

Good idea Curt, I didn't think of down loading the manual in advance!

My power amp is a secondhand Naim NAP300 which needed attention, it was an impulse buy, and since it's been back to the factory for an upgrade its been very good. I just can't bring myself to buy the matching Naim preamp, which is very expensive, needs two extra PSU boxes to make it work and its just a simple analogue preamp, hence my search for a practical alternative with useful facilities, the ADI-2 I hope!

The NAP300 has unbalanced inputs, I believe its 1V for full output and 18k ohm input impedance.

Fingers crossed.

Re: ADI-2 DAC as DAC Pre amp?

Roog,

Without getting into too much of a tangled, and convoluted discussion, your Naim Amp presents no challenge to the RME.     On the Pre-Amp matter, in a purely Digital Sourced system like yours (?) a Pre is IMO merely excess baggage.   Particularly one with multiple PSUs, etc.   

You're on the Right Track!   

When does your RME arrive?   I want to know, to ensure I have a few Celebratory Pints on hand!  big_smile

A new RMEnian in the Group is always a happy time!!

Cheers!!

Curt

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic Edition"
Cables:  Red Ones, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes (2)

Re: ADI-2 DAC as DAC Pre amp?

Hi Curt,

What you say about the additional pre amp stage makes complete sense to me, I am interested to see how this works out.

ADI-2 is due on Monday, I will report my findings.

32 (edited by Curt962 2020-11-14 17:19:29)

Re: ADI-2 DAC as DAC Pre amp?

It's going to work out FINE!   

My Audio Accessory (Wife) is out to buy the requisite Pints as we speak! 

We're all excited with you Roog, so Start Qeueing up Music now...!!

Curt

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic Edition"
Cables:  Red Ones, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes (2)

Re: ADI-2 DAC as DAC Pre amp?

:0) There seems to be a lot riding on this experiment not to mention my credibility on another forum where this has also been discussed.

Re: ADI-2 DAC as DAC Pre amp?

No experiment Roog.   smile

You will want to keep an RME Link handy, so that your other salivating forum friends know where they can buy an RME of their own.  wink

Fun Times <48hrs ahead!

Best to ya Mate!

Curt

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic Edition"
Cables:  Red Ones, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes (2)

Re: ADI-2 DAC as DAC Pre amp?

Roog!!

My Calendar says tomorrow is your big day!    Clean the Carpets, and Tidy up!!   You have a new Family Member arriving forthwith!!

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic Edition"
Cables:  Red Ones, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes (2)

36 (edited by Roog 2020-11-16 21:17:22)

Re: ADI-2 DAC as DAC Pre amp?

ADI-2 DAC has arrived, Yeah!

Nice quality enclosure and it works 'straight out of the box', which is a comfort.
I have it connected to my laptop via USB with a set of Yamaha NS5 active speakers connected via balanced XLR cables. These monitors are not especially musical, but they sound pretty punchy when fed by the ADI-2.

Curt, the next bit is going to disappoint you, "I hate reading manuals" I did try, I went bleary-eyed trying to read it on my iPad, all in one night. I failed. Having twiddled and pushed the knobs on the ADI-2 I had hoped that it might be intuitive, sadly I do find it a bit overwhelming. I will hunt down some youtube videos to learn some more about set up and using it this evening and try again tomorrow.

It has been a tough day at work for me today and it took all of my discipline not to stop work to have a play with the ADI-2.  I think I will move it on to my stereo system once I have figured out how to drive it on my active monitors.

But so far so good  :0)

37 (edited by Curt962 2020-11-16 23:34:34)

Re: ADI-2 DAC as DAC Pre amp?

Roog!!   Yes!!!!   I'm happy you received your new RME. 

The Manual.  It's an Eye-Popper for certain, but dont feel you have to internalize it overnight.   As you won't be taking the Manual Examinations until next week, you have some preparation time.  wink

One of the most often used phrases (and all of it's adaptations) in this forum is: "Read the Manual"

https://i.ibb.co/ngKymMq/20201026-073955.jpg

It's a Powerful Resource!  big_smile

Better still, it's downloadable in searchable PDF format to your Smart Device, so you always have a copy on hand.  Literally!

So!   Let's begin shall we in Section 5. "Quick Start"   

This will give you an introduction to the Device, it's Controls, and the Menu Structures.   Good place to begin I'd say.   Take your time.   It's perfectly OK to hold the Manual in one hand, and follow it step by step as you push buttons with the other. 

You got this!  smile

You've Chosen Well.  Enjoy Mate!!

Curt

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic Edition"
Cables:  Red Ones, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes (2)

38 (edited by Roog 2020-11-17 16:47:16)

Re: ADI-2 DAC as DAC Pre amp?

After giving my Yamaha HS5 active monitors a blast using the ADI-2 through balanced cable connections, today I switched my attention to my main stereo system.

To reiterate, this includes a Naim NAP 300DR amplifier which uses unbalanced inputs and my loudspeakers are ATC SCM 40. My current source is a Naim SuperUniti, this is a fairly old digital ‘all in one’ design and I am currently using this as a streamer/DAC/Preamp with its internal power amplifier switched off. Many people in the Naim world would tell you, (and have told me) that it is a wholly unsuitable source for the NAP300DR. I beg to differ I believe it to be very capable and has a pleasant, smooth and a ‘bold’ sound.
I placed the ADI-2 in circuit, using the default settings and with direct unbalanced connection to the Naim power amp. The sound is different; it is more detailed, the key thing is that it drives the power amplifier very well, the sound being very clear and dynamic.

Switching back to my normal source, the Naim SuperUniti, it is apparent to me that the Naim sound is very slightly rolled off in the high frequencies and as a result, it sounds a little “smoother”.

With the ADI-2 back in circuit, it was nice to be able to tweak the tone controls, my room has a strong bass emphasis at around 70Hz or thereabouts and reducing the bass helped, although I think the EQ would make a better job of this. I will have a play with this function just as soon as I can reliably find my way around the menu system! It is not that I can’t change the profile, I just don’t understand how to change it quickly and without accidentally stumbling on the right sequence. Some work is needed by me here.

So, yes the ADI-2 DAC is very happy driving my power amplifier, the sound is perhaps slightly more analytical than my normal set up, but I look forward to helping to reduce the bass emphasis of my room with the EQ. (I just need to figure out how to do this reliably!)

One small point I noticed, when using the ADI-2 connected via the USB input from a laptop I get quite a bit of noise, (I tried two laptops and they both gave the same noise), it sounds like a hard disk drive hissing and chattering and is quite noticeable. This is the same whatever the volume set and disappears when the USB connection is removed from either end. I did not notice it when using the spdif coaxial input from my SuperUniti. Your thoughts on what this might be due to would be helpful.

EDIT: I have just checked using headphones in the 1/4" jack, and it sounds silent to me. Plugging the monitors back in using the balanced connections and the noise is back. I have now turned the ADI-2 off and I can still hear the sound through the monitors which I left on. Odd, I thought that balanced was the way to go with regard to noise rejection.

Re: ADI-2 DAC as DAC Pre amp?

Roog.

Good summary of your first day with your new RME.   The odd noise shouts "Ground Loop"  If you can lift the Ground on the Yamahas, try that.

Balanced Wiring is intended to reject noise introduced by outside sources...not fix ground loops.  Those are built in. wink

Else, there will surely be other commentary from members to help lead you to the solution.

The Bass emphasis?   70hz bespeaks a small room.   8ft/2.5mtrs-ish. 

The PEQ could tame that in a flash, but it's best to have measured data with which to base our actions upon.

Curt

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic Edition"
Cables:  Red Ones, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes (2)

Re: ADI-2 DAC as DAC Pre amp?

Hi Curt, yes it is behaving just like a ground loop, I will see what is and what isn't grounded in my office desk 'system'.

As regards to the bass issue, I guessed the frequency since it is a long time since I measured it.  Room is a modest 6m L x 3.4m W x 2.4m h I probably should have bought smaller loudspeakers!

41 (edited by Curt962 2020-11-17 19:26:28)

Re: ADI-2 DAC as DAC Pre amp?

Roog,   here at "Redneck Tech" here in the Southeast US,  I might suggest to try to plug the RME into the same Mains outlet as the Yamahas.   Ground Loops are created when devices are not at the same "earth" potential.  This results in a difference in potential.  A "Voltage", and subsequent Current that causes trouble.   My poor man's test might help place both the RME and Yammies at the same potential, and who knows!  Silence?   smile

More.. your Room isn't so terribly small.   Methinks what you hear is related to the H dimension, but we'll deal with that later.   One matter at a time!

Curt

PS:  Smaller Speakers?  Blasphemy I say!!  big_smile

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic Edition"
Cables:  Red Ones, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes (2)

Re: ADI-2 DAC as DAC Pre amp?

I see what you are saying, when I had the DAC working in my office it was a temporary installation and I had everything plugged into different places and extension leads. When I had it connected to my main system I had it all plugged it into one socket strip and no noise.

I tried it with my laptop running off its batteries that solved the noise issue too.

Re: ADI-2 DAC as DAC Pre amp?

Ok!

We're getting someplace.  It's a Mains Wiring issue, rather than a fault elsewhere.

So long as things are Kosher in the primary installation, we're OK.

Curt

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic Edition"
Cables:  Red Ones, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes (2)

Re: ADI-2 DAC as DAC Pre amp?

I have figured out how to use the parametric equaliser, celebrate with donuts all round!
I have had loads of fun playing with the ADI-2 and it’s features, time to put them to the test on the big system with the bass issues. I may Have to wait until the missus has gone out to work in the garden, she hates me messing about with the stereo.
Sometimes I wish my stereo was as ‘right’ as my near field set up in my ‘office’

45 (edited by Curt962 2020-11-21 16:34:19)

Re: ADI-2 DAC as DAC Pre amp?

Hi Roog.  Travel Day today, so I'm not going to be around a lot.

Get us some measured data in your Room.   I like REW, but there's other tools as well.   Specifically, a look at the FR between ehhh....20hz>500hz.   

With that information, we can make a more accurate EQ asessment.   

Now...hold the Door so Momma can go to her Garden!  wink

Curt

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic Edition"
Cables:  Red Ones, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes (2)

46 (edited by KaiS 2020-11-22 10:23:10)

Re: ADI-2 DAC as DAC Pre amp?

Curt962 wrote:

The odd noise shouts "Ground Loop"
...

Balanced Wiring is intended to reject noise introduced by outside sources...not fix ground loops.  Those are built in. wink

Curt

Balanced audio interfacing is exactly made to avoid this type, ground loop related, problems.
But only if properly done, which is not always the case.

In the recording studio you have ground loops all over, as long as the interconnects are well made balanced, nothing does creep into the audio.

To say it clear: this is not a question of the cable quality, but how the balanced interfaces are implemented in the devices themselves.

BTW: I would never advise to remove the safety ground from any device.

With ground loops it often helps to place all interconnect cables, even mains and PSU, together into an arrangement like a tree with branches.

Re: ADI-2 DAC as DAC Pre amp?

Thank you Kai, I completely agree the safety ground is there for a reason. I have not removed any ground connections. As Curt and you have said using a common supply for all equipment is the way. I just got a little lazy in my enthusiasm to try the ADI-2 out!

My Naim equipment has signal ground lift switches at source and pre positions, their power amps don’t have such a switch, I believe they recommend signal grounding at one source or the preamp stage. When I quickly tried the ADI-2 with my Naim amps I did not notice any noise so I am not expecting  this to be an issue.

48 (edited by Roog 2020-11-23 15:38:54)

Re: ADI-2 DAC as DAC Pre amp?

Hi Curt, I think you may have hinted that you might be able to give me some advice as to how to offset my room bass issues.
The image is a screenshot of a REW sweep I took this morning using my UMIK-1 set up at head height in my normal seated listening position,  laptop running REW, USB interface to the ADI-2 with ADI-2 set with no EQ. Frequency range from 20Hz to 200Hz

https://i.imgur.com/zd8NypD.jpg

I was amazed to see that the Room sim function in FEW gives similar results with the low peak centred around 49Hz

I have found that by subtracting and adding at various frequencies using the PEQ improves the curve, but I would be interested in your considered approach to this, please?

Re: ADI-2 DAC as DAC Pre amp?

Roog wrote:

Hi Curt, I think you may have hinted that you might be able to give me some advice as to how to offset my room bass issues.
The image is a screenshot of a REW sweep I took this morning using my UMIK-1 set up at head height in my normal seated listening position,  laptop running REW, USB interface to the ADI-2 with ADI-2 set with no EQ. Frequency range from 20Hz to 200Hz

https://i.imgur.com/zd8NypD.jpg

I was amazed to see that the Room sim function in FEW gives similar results with the low peak centred around 49Hz

I have found that by subtracting and adding at various frequencies using the PEQ improves the curve, but I would be interested in your considered approach to this, please?

Hi Roog! smile
REW can do the math for you, Just click on the EQ button, you will have access to the EQ calculator smile

ADI-2 DAC (with stock PSU) - Neumann KH 310 A monitors - Cheap USB and XLR cables

50 (edited by Curt962 2020-11-23 17:58:52)

Re: ADI-2 DAC as DAC Pre amp?

Roog!! I feel terrible for not responding sooner.  I didn't get a notification. 

Let me look, do some Math and get back to you promptly!

Curt

PS:  Can you apply 1/6 Oct smoothing on that for me please?

The data doesn't conform well to your Room Dims posted earlier.  Are we in a different Room for this REW shot?

Thanks!

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic Edition"
Cables:  Red Ones, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes (2)