Re: ADI-2 DAC as DAC Pre amp?

Oh wow, thank you NOOb, I will have a look, I assume that I can do this with saved results?
I don't suppose that I will be allowed to make loud noises through the stereo again for a while!  :0)

Re: ADI-2 DAC as DAC Pre amp?

Hi Curt,

I'll have a look for the buttons to apply 1/6 Oct smoothing, definitely the same room. Room dims now accurately measured as 6050 x 3450 x 2300h

I appreciate your help

53 (edited by Curt962 2020-11-23 18:45:08)

Re: ADI-2 DAC as DAC Pre amp?

Roog,

It's the 3.45M Room dimension causing that peak at 49hz.   

Hmmmm...

I'm not a Doctor, but if I were, I would choose to be a Good One!   Gotta ask more questions before prescribing anything.  Is it possible for you to provide a Sketch of the Floorplan, Speaker Placement, and Seating Location?   

Optionally, you might provide locations of Valuables, etc.   Purely for Scientific Purposes of course.  big_smile

Thx again,


Curt

** Roog, my Psychic Abilities have waned over Time.   Yet, were I to venture a guess?  You are seated very close to a Wall, facing the 3.45M  dimension.  Perhaps?  wink

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic Edition"
Cables:  Red Ones, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes (2)

54 (edited by Roog 2020-11-23 19:02:44)

Re: ADI-2 DAC as DAC Pre amp?

Here goes, 1/6 smoothing applied, I am not actually sure what the other stuff is, I pressed some buttons and stuff happened!
https://i.imgur.com/NwtjDTR.jpg

Plan of lounge, the triangle is the seated listener, the boxes are the speakers, the set up is approximately a 2.8m equilateral triangle
https://i.imgur.com/x5AgPJE.jpg

55 (edited by Curt962 2020-11-23 18:57:59)

Re: ADI-2 DAC as DAC Pre amp?

https://i.ibb.co/FWBrsLx/Young-woman-Gypsy-using-a-crystal-ball.jpg

I was right!   smile

Ok.  You are seated near a Pressure Maxima in the Room.  (Any Room Boundary is a Pressure Maxima)

Now what?

Lets's move the Measurement Mic 30cm forward, and re-do the REW Sweep.  Easier to move Mics than Furniture.   What we MAY be doing here is a bit of "Positional EQ" where moving Sofas/People is a better option than just trying to fix everything electronically. 

I think you understand.  Fun Stuff Mate!

Best!

Curt

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic Edition"
Cables:  Red Ones, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes (2)

Re: ADI-2 DAC as DAC Pre amp?

This one might be more useful?

https://i.imgur.com/606DAue.jpg

Sorry, I am not adept at using REW

57 (edited by Curt962 2020-11-23 19:26:15)

Re: ADI-2 DAC as DAC Pre amp?

Thanks for the data Roog.  You showed us SPL and Phase.   For this exercise, we only need SPL.  You can easily de-select Phase info with REW.

I'm staying with my Plan.  Let's move the Mic 30cm forward, and Re-Test.

What I'm trying to do here, is to get your Listening Position OUT of the Boundary, but not so far as to Land in a Null.  A "mid-point" as it were.   

Is it possible to have your Ear at approx 1.2M from the wall behind you??

You're going to do fine!!

Curt

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic Edition"
Cables:  Red Ones, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes (2)

Re: ADI-2 DAC as DAC Pre amp?

Thanks, Curt will do, I also need to read up on NOObs idea of using REWs EQ feature, I have taken a look at it and pressed a few buttons but nothing meaningful happened!

59 (edited by Curt962 2020-11-23 19:41:46)

Re: ADI-2 DAC as DAC Pre amp?

No Problem!   My Vintage Brain Cells may offer some help.  On occasion...

Best part Roog, we're doing this OLD SCHOOL!    It's not always convenient, but Sweat Equity teaches us all much, and surely gives us a bit more understanding...not to mention the ENJOYMENT it brings to the end result when you realize you did it yourself!   wink

Curt

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic Edition"
Cables:  Red Ones, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes (2)

Re: ADI-2 DAC as DAC Pre amp?

Ok Curt,
First image mic 650mm from back wall
https://i.imgur.com/KRKynLB.jpg

Second image mic 750mm from back wall
https://i.imgur.com/5d8PRb9.jpg

Third image mic 1000mm from back wall, (I will have fallen off the sofa by now!)
https://i.imgur.com/sU3KzxU.jpg

61 (edited by Curt962 2020-11-23 23:18:15)

Re: ADI-2 DAC as DAC Pre amp?

Thanks Roog.

Do you see how the Peak Amplitude is decreasing as we move a bit forward?   

Can we move the Sofa forward?  Not always possible, I understand.   I deal with a very similar arrangement in my home.  We can't block exits, etc for Safety reasons, but otherwise my "program" is to simply make physical adjustments tp your set up, before we ever look to Electronics for answers.   I'm weird like that...   big_smile

Curt

PS:   Roog, here in the Karibik, my notifications are spotty.   If I go "silent"...I'm either Dead, or just Slow to check email.

I do indeed appreciate your efforts thus far.  Thanks!  Not going to leave you in Limbo Mate!

Best!!

Curt

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic Edition"
Cables:  Red Ones, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes (2)

62 (edited by Roog 2020-11-23 23:21:08)

Re: ADI-2 DAC as DAC Pre amp?

Hi Curt,

Thanks for the advice, I understand what you are saying, I do sometimes sit on the floor in front of my sofa and it removes much of the bass issue. In practice, I cannot move the sofa as the missus would not be happy.

Playing around with the REW room simulation shows by how much moving the listener's position changes what you hear, I was very surprised how sensitive this can be, by just moving 300mm to 500mm and you can hit a peak or a dip in the bass. 

I would like to try the EQ filters, but I appreciate it would be better to resolve the room acoustics by better placement.

I have no problem with limbo, happy to hear from you when you can.

63 (edited by Curt962 2020-11-23 23:42:13)

Re: ADI-2 DAC as DAC Pre amp?

When Home, I spend a lot of time on the Floor in front of the Sofa.  How else could my Wife massage my Back with her feet?   Pure Ergonomics!

She gets the Hot Seat...I get the Massage.  Suggest THIS to your Wife, and we may be good here. smile   Roog, I've been around a Long Time, and have yet to experience ANY Bass Response that rivals the Salubrious qualities of a Back Massage!  smile

Hang in there Mate!

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic Edition"
Cables:  Red Ones, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes (2)

Re: ADI-2 DAC as DAC Pre amp?

Curt962 wrote:

When Home, I spend a lot of time on the Floor in front of the Sofa.  How else could my Wife massage my Back with her feet?   Pure Ergonomics!

She gets the Hot Seat...I get the Massage.  Suggest THIS to your Wife, and we may be good here. smile   Roog, I've been around a Long Time, and have yet to experience ANY Bass Response that rivals the Salubrious qualities of a Back Massage!  smile

Hang in there Mate!

Whilst this is a neat solution it is the Wife who gets the massage not me, perhaps she finds the bass irritating too  :0)

Thanks to NOOb as well who prompted me to investigate the EQ function in REW. I have found an interesting Youtube video which walks you through the use of the EQ function in REW. So many controls, but I have obtained some filter parameters which I have tried, I notice that choosing your target has a significant effect.

Re: ADI-2 DAC as DAC Pre amp?

Roog,

Let's throw a bit of EQ at the 49hz peak.   B1 -5db    Peak Filter.  Q to be determined, but the Bode Plots on the RME display will help get you in the vicinity.   Not a Cure-All, but perhaps a good start. 

Curt

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic Edition"
Cables:  Red Ones, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes (2)

66 (edited by Roog 2020-11-24 14:43:07)

Re: ADI-2 DAC as DAC Pre amp?

Thanks, Curt,

Indeed, the 49Hz peak is a target, I will continue to make adjustments, steady as she goes.

It is interesting that I have been tempted to make increasingly larger adjustments just to get a clear 'improvement' only to realise that I have gone too far and then after more relaxed listening without tweaking I have found that less is better! 

It really is a very clever device and I can see already from my short but intense time using it that it is not only a very clean and accurate sounding DAC but also very useful for taming my room's bass issues. There must come a time when I stop adjusting and enjoy the music, the problem, if there is one, is that with the ADI-2 it is so tempting to try something else.

I have a question: is it possible to cycle through the saved EQ presets and the DAC filter types from the remote control? Hey I know we could all do with the exercise, but it might be handy when going through this kind of config. process

This reminds me I must try the different DAC filters, all very neat.

67 (edited by Curt962 2020-11-24 18:26:04)

Re: ADI-2 DAC as DAC Pre amp?

Hi Roog!

Your Question:   Set-Ups are your Friend!  See Section 14 of your manual for details.

A Second Option  with your EQ might be to use a Hi-Pass Filter.  Sounds Draconian I know, but we've done it before.   Setting that filter at 50-60hz, and rolling off below could give us some relief.   We can't fight physics, so let's try to work with them. 

Doesn't hurt to try!

Curt

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic Edition"
Cables:  Red Ones, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes (2)

Re: ADI-2 DAC as DAC Pre amp?

Hi-pass filter seems like a good plan

Will check out Section 14

thanks

Re: ADI-2 DAC as DAC Pre amp?

Hi again Roog!

I want to see you through to a fine result on the EQ.  Alas, I'm at Work far from home, and now there seems to be a Software Glitch in my Right Hand.   These messages are torturous, as my digits dont go where I tell them.

That said, let's begin with EQ Option 1.  Drop a bit of EQ cut at 50hz as described earlier. 

Else, I'm looking at your Data, and trying to find correlations between the  measured data, and other info you've provided.  I may have some, but let's start simple. wink

I have other commentary, but I've already corrected 100 typos.   Enough.

Curt

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic Edition"
Cables:  Red Ones, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes (2)

70 (edited by Curt962 2020-11-25 22:24:38)

Re: ADI-2 DAC as DAC Pre amp?

Gosh Roog.   I guess we might only reason that you are Swathed in a most Salubrious Mid-Range, Entranced by the Ethereality of the Trebles, and Peering from your Upholstered Precipice, downward into the Lowest Depths of the Bass.

Ok!   We're good here!  smile

Curt

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic Edition"
Cables:  Red Ones, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes (2)

71 (edited by Roog 2020-11-25 23:45:38)

Re: ADI-2 DAC as DAC Pre amp?

Thank you for your help Curt.

The ADI-2 EQ is able to reduce the bass at around the 49Hz trouble spot, simple configurations seem to work best having little impact on sound quality, more involved or extreme settings don’t sound quite so good.

As I listened more I found it easy to reduce the gain element on the EQ. That is less cut. Some music seemingly not requiring EQ at all, probably little inherent bass content. So all is good!

Re: ADI-2 DAC as DAC Pre amp?

Missed Ya Roog!

Good all is ok.   When time avails, perhaps another REW plot would be dandy. wink

Thanks Mate!

Curt

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic Edition"
Cables:  Red Ones, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes (2)

Re: ADI-2 DAC as DAC Pre amp?

Another REW plot? Of course, I will create one tomorrow.

Re: ADI-2 DAC as DAC Pre amp?

Thanks!

My Weird Hand keeps blowing up my responses. sad

Just wanna take a look!

Thanks!

Curt

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic Edition"
Cables:  Red Ones, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes (2)

75 (edited by Roog 2020-11-26 14:09:01)

Re: ADI-2 DAC as DAC Pre amp?

Hi Curt,
Here are a couple of REW results filters applied.
First up is the result for a high pass filter targeting around 50Hz to 60Hz
https://i.imgur.com/tlWKkRS.jpg

Second is a 2 parameter notch filter using high negative gain at 2 frequencies
https://i.imgur.com/5K2b0aB.jpg

I do have a further result for a single frequency notch filter which employed a lower negative gain function, but for some reason, this has recorded a trace higher up the scale. I am not so sure about this one. It sounds ok though.
https://i.imgur.com/x9UijMd.jpg

All help reduce the bass issue, the simpler single notch filter may be a good compromise.

76 (edited by Curt962 2020-11-26 14:43:55)

Re: ADI-2 DAC as DAC Pre amp?

Roog,

I might have a go at bit of Low Q boost at 80hz.   See if we can pick up that scooped area between 50-100hz.   Else, this scooped area may be the handiwork of some Boundary Interference from the Front Wall. (Behind the Speakers) 


Curt

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic Edition"
Cables:  Red Ones, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes (2)

77 (edited by Roog 2020-11-26 14:40:29)

Re: ADI-2 DAC as DAC Pre amp?

Yes, I have played with severe filters which cut and boost at different frequencies, I agree that the use of subtle filters is the way forward.

The DAC is now firmly ensconced in my main stereo system in the lounge, I think that I just need a bit of time to adapt my filters. I am getting there.

Re: ADI-2 DAC as DAC Pre amp?

Ensconced

Now THERE'S a word that just doesn't get the use it deserves. wink

Let's keep plugging onward!!

Curt

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic Edition"
Cables:  Red Ones, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes (2)

Re: ADI-2 DAC as DAC Pre amp?

"LOL" Just pushing at a few boundaries I'll behave from now on!  :0)

Re: ADI-2 DAC as DAC Pre amp?

Roog, et al,

When we talk about "Boundary" interference, it's not just Audiophile Jibberish.  It's a very real factor in the life of a Loudspeaker owner.   To give you a better grasp of the matter, here's a nice mini-tutorial on the subject.   You will also see how some anomalies cannot simply be EQd away.   In all, a useful bit of info to add to your Toolkit. 

https://www.gikacoustics.com/speaker-bo … onse-sbir/

Enjoy!

Curt

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic Edition"
Cables:  Red Ones, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes (2)

81 (edited by Roog 2020-11-26 16:45:30)

Re: ADI-2 DAC as DAC Pre amp?

Ah yes, the short wall - long wall issue. There is a short story in relation to which wall the speakers are on, last xmas when the world was in its normal rubbish state, the missus wanted to place the xmas tree in the spot where one of my speakers were, on the short wall, so I moved the whole system for xmas on to the long wall. What I noticed was the using the long wall improved the sound stage, but created a bigger bass issue. After xmas no one insisted on the system moving back so it has stayed on the long wall all year. I shall see which wall I am allowed to us after xmas. In fact, the original speaker cables are still in place ready for its return! From my experience of trying both ways, the issues are the same  (hey the room hasn't changed) its just that you have more scope for changing listening position when the system is placed on the short wall. REW room sim shows really well where the best place is to sit, I was surprised at how accurate it turned out to be.

82 (edited by Curt962 2020-11-26 22:38:59)

Re: ADI-2 DAC as DAC Pre amp?

Roog,

Ok.  Post Holidays is fine.

At Our House?  Christmas is Central to the  being of the Audio. During this time,  everything makes a difference!

Later?  Is too Late.

Curt

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic Edition"
Cables:  Red Ones, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes (2)