Topic: UFX to ADI-2 DAC FS or UFX to UFX II?

Hi guys!

I run a UFX and UCX together.  I am now wanting to upgrade my converters, and am wondering what would be the best change between upgrading my UFX to a UFXII, or getting the ADI-2 DAC FS to upgrade only the converters?  Also, I am honestly totally satisfied with the UFX, but I am wondering how much of a difference will the upgrade help the D/A conversion? 

So to be right to the point:

1.  Is it better to upgrade the UFX to UFXII for the D/A conversion, or get the ADI-2 DAC FS with the UFX?

2.  Is getting the ADI-2 DAC FS be a noticeable upgrade from the UFX D/A conversion?

3.  Should I just not bother because the UFX is already amazing?

Thanks for your help and suggestions!

Re: UFX to ADI-2 DAC FS or UFX to UFX II?

My click goes to number 3.
For upgrade I would take a UFX+ because it is the flagship.
Nothing to say against upgrade to UfX ll there you are at the top.

M1-Sonoma, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue

Re: UFX to ADI-2 DAC FS or UFX to UFX II?

The difference between UFX and UFX II / UFX+ you can see in my blog ... you need to check whether there is something which raises your interest or "wakes your appetite" ..
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/ind … 8-RME-UFX/

Here I wrote some information how to integrate an ADI-2 DAC FS or ADI-2 Pro FS R BE into the solution:
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/ind … our-Setup/

If you consider to get the ADI-2 DAC/Pro I would use the ADI-2 Pro instead of the ADI-2 DAC.

The differences between ADI-2 DAC and Pro you can see in this sticky:
https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=32506

UFX II and UFX+ are both flagship interfaces. Same features and analog quality / technical data. The UFX II is simply a stripped down version without MADI (and thus without USB3/TB) as you need only USB2 for a 30ch interface.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: UFX to ADI-2 DAC FS or UFX to UFX II?

waedi wrote:

My click goes to number 3.
For upgrade I would take a UFX+ because it is the flagship.
Nothing to say against upgrade to UfX ll there you are at the top.

Thanks!

5 (edited by CurseesConnect 2021-03-17 15:24:06)

Re: UFX to ADI-2 DAC FS or UFX to UFX II?

ramses wrote:

The difference between UFX and UFX II / UFX+ you can see in my blog ... you need to check whether there is something which raises your interest or "wakes your appetite" ..
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/ind … 8-RME-UFX/

Here I wrote some information how to integrate an ADI-2 DAC FS or ADI-2 Pro FS R BE into the solution:
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/ind … our-Setup/

If you consider to get the ADI-2 DAC/Pro I would use the ADI-2 Pro instead of the ADI-2 DAC.

The differences between ADI-2 DAC and Pro you can see in this sticky:
https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=32506

UFX II and UFX+ are both flagship interfaces. Same features and analog quality / technical data. The UFX II is simply a stripped down version without MADI (and thus without USB3/TB) as you need only USB2 for a 30ch interface.


Thanks!  Why the Pro instead of the DAC FS?  Sound on Sound's review of the DAC FS seems to indicate it's perfect for a D/A out if you don't need all the inputs.  Which is my case ?   

EDIT:  I see now that there is only one output.  That would be a problem with 2 pairs of monitors. 

Thanks!

Re: UFX to ADI-2 DAC FS or UFX to UFX II?

CurseesConnect wrote:
ramses wrote:

If you consider to get the ADI-2 DAC/Pro I would use the ADI-2 Pro instead of the ADI-2 DAC.
The differences between ADI-2 DAC and Pro you can see in this sticky:
https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=32506

Thanks!  Why the Pro instead of the DAC FS?  Sound on Sound's review of the DAC FS seems to indicate it's perfect for a D/A out if you don't need all the inputs.  Which is my case ?

You can also use the DAC for recording, but I prefer the Pro for recording because this device was designed for this application...

1. The adjustable reference levels of the Pro version are designed for the requirements in the recording area.

2. I consider it important in the studio to be able to A/B test between 2 different headphones. To do this, you must be able to switch the headphones quickly and the volume must be exactly the same. This is only possible with the Pro model with 2 D/A converters.

3. some features are not included in DAC: analog inputs, digital outputs, the automatic routing functions, sample rate conversion and AES, in case you need the ADAT ports of your recording interface for other things.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

7 (edited by CurseesConnect 2021-03-17 19:31:46)

Re: UFX to ADI-2 DAC FS or UFX to UFX II?

ramses wrote:
CurseesConnect wrote:
ramses wrote:

If you consider to get the ADI-2 DAC/Pro I would use the ADI-2 Pro instead of the ADI-2 DAC.
The differences between ADI-2 DAC and Pro you can see in this sticky:
https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=32506

Thanks!  Why the Pro instead of the DAC FS?  Sound on Sound's review of the DAC FS seems to indicate it's perfect for a D/A out if you don't need all the inputs.  Which is my case ?

You can also use the DAC for recording, but I prefer the Pro for recording because this device was designed for this application...

1. The adjustable reference levels of the Pro version are designed for the requirements in the recording area.

2. I consider it important in the studio to be able to A/B test between 2 different headphones. To do this, you must be able to switch the headphones quickly and the volume must be exactly the same. This is only possible with the Pro model with 2 D/A converters.

3. some features are not included in DAC: analog inputs, digital outputs, the automatic routing functions, sample rate conversion and AES, in case you need the ADAT ports of your recording interface for other things.

Thanks!

Is there 2 stereo outs possible on the DAC PRO?  I have two pairs of monitors and would like to switch between them, but I guess I could use the analog out of the UFX for the second pair and keep the primary pair on the DAC?

8 (edited by CurseesConnect 2021-03-22 13:45:42)

Re: UFX to ADI-2 DAC FS or UFX to UFX II?

I'd like to ask one last question...

Would the benefits of updating the UFX to the UFX II outweigh the benefits of adding the ADI-2 FS to my chain?  Will the better conversion from the ADI-2 be audible at all from the UFX II?

I am monitoring on very high-end monitors (Unity Audio Boulders mkii) and a soon to be finished designed mixing room.

Re: UFX to ADI-2 DAC FS or UFX to UFX II?

Anyone?

Re: UFX to ADI-2 DAC FS or UFX to UFX II?

Things like this you better check out for yourself.
Nobody has the same system and room like you and hearing capabilities / listening habits are different.
Both are excellent products but the ADI-2 DAC/Pro has some unique features and a different D/A converter.
It could sound slightly different and produce a slightly different sound stage for you.

Check this video, download the different wave files .. I am hearing small differences between those A/D converters.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doHG32aXBDY

There might be little differences also between those two products which can not be extracted from SNR and other technical data ... High End we had already before SNR of 120 or more .... ! wink

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: UFX to ADI-2 DAC FS or UFX to UFX II?

I would not expect any audible difference. All are very neutral, as studio equipment should be.
You should buy for features you need, not audio quality with the gear you have now. And since you are already happy. Keep your money for later when you really need something.
Of course just IMHO...

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
Babyface pro fs, HDSP9652+ADI-8AE, HDSP9632

12 (edited by CurseesConnect 2021-03-24 15:04:58)

Re: UFX to ADI-2 DAC FS or UFX to UFX II?

Thanks guys.  I could hear a difference, albeit small, between the soundfiles of that video.  I am amazed that the ADI-2 holds its own with all the others.  None of them sounded bad, none of them really stood out, just great conversion IMO. 

I went with the ADI-2 DAC FS to give the best possible conversion to my chain and not worry about it ever.  I'll plug it through the AES/EBU to SPDIF.

Thanks for all the help.

Re: UFX to ADI-2 DAC FS or UFX to UFX II?

I got the unit yesterday and put it through its pace.  It's very nice.  I think it will work well with my setup. 

I do have some other questions tough...

1. Which one of the filters is better for mixing/mastering? 

2. I want to lock the volume and use TM (AES out) with the ARC USB to change the volume.  Is this the good way to go?

3. If so, what level should I lock the volume at?

Thanks guys!

Re: UFX to ADI-2 DAC FS or UFX to UFX II?

So your setup consists now of: UFX -> AES / SPDIF -> ADI-2 DAC FS ?

Just my $0.02
to 1) I am using the default filter, other people have other preferences
to 2) You can do it this way, I personally keep the volume of the AES output at 0dB and control the volume at the ADI-2 Pro
to 3) configure Auto-Ref Level and choose a comfortably volume.
         Autoreflevel chooses automatically the best reference level which results in an optimum SNR

If your active monitors allow, turn down the volume there.
To be able to use a volume near to 0dB you might need attenuators additionally to bring the signal down betwee -10 up to -20 or even -30dB, see this thread: https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=25399

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

15 (edited by CurseesConnect 2021-03-26 16:50:53)

Re: UFX to ADI-2 DAC FS or UFX to UFX II?

ramses wrote:

So your setup consists now of: UFX -> AES / SPDIF -> ADI-2 DAC FS ?

Just my $0.02
to 1) I am using the default filter, other people have other preferences
to 2) You can do it this way, I personally keep the volume of the AES output at 0dB and control the volume at the ADI-2 Pro
to 3) configure Auto-Ref Level and choose a comfortably volume.
         Autoreflevel chooses automatically the best reference level which results in an optimum SNR

If your active monitors allow, turn down the volume there.
To be able to use a volume near to 0dB you might need attenuators additionally to bring the signal down betwee -10 up to -20 or even -30dB, see this thread: https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=25399

So your setup consists now of: UFX -> AES / SPDIF -> ADI-2 DAC FS ?  Yes.

Thank you ramses. 

So if I don't need to have my volume up at 0dB in TM, I can still use it this way and use the ARC to up the volume?  I have turned down the volume on my monitors already.  The only thing is that I put the level pretty low on the DAC to go about midway on the AES out into the DAC.  I'm not sure that would be ideal for possible bursts of sound? 

Not too sure how to go about it.  I would love to be able to use the ARC to set the volume, and I really don't want to add any kind of monitor controllers.

Re: UFX to ADI-2 DAC FS or UFX to UFX II?

I also thought so to use the ARC, but for me it became more comfortably to use the left arm/hand
to control the volume directly at the DAC at the left side.

And if you think further. The DAC has very nice features like dynamic loudness which I use every day.
This can only be triggered / used if you use the volume at the DAC ....

If I use e.g. the DAC for listening to music, then its usually the case, that I use lower volumes compared to mixing/mastering.
or when I want background music for (my real) work.

Then its very nice to have dynamic loudness kicking in automatically so that the sound doesn't become thin at these lower volumes...

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: UFX to ADI-2 DAC FS or UFX to UFX II?

ramses wrote:

I also thought so to use the ARC, but for me it became more comfortably to use the left arm/hand
to control the volume directly at the DAC at the left side.

And if you think further. The DAC has very nice features like dynamic loudness which I use every day.
This can only be triggered / used if you use the volume at the DAC ....

If I use e.g. the DAC for listening to music, then its usually the case, that I use lower volumes compared to mixing/mastering.
or when I want background music for (my real) work.

Then its very nice to have dynamic loudness kicking in automatically so that the sound doesn't become thin at these lower volumes...

Good point.  Although I will use it almost exclusively for mixing/mastering and for LOUD music listening.

Re: UFX to ADI-2 DAC FS or UFX to UFX II?

Ok so what I did was turn down the monitors halfway, set the level of the ADI-2 at around -18dB and I keep the AES out at 0dB in software playback. 

This way, I can go close to 0dB on TM Main Out for pretty loud, but around -6dB for reasonable mixing volumes. 

Works well for me. 


Still not sure which filter is more appropriate for reference mixing and mastering though? 

smile

19 (edited by ramses 2021-03-28 11:29:24)

Re: UFX to ADI-2 DAC FS or UFX to UFX II?

There is no best filter, there are tradeoffs to be done, but as Matthias Carstens described in the manual, p. 83, the new SD LD filter of the AK4493 (found in the new models ADI-2 DAC FS and ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, model comparison here: https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.ph … 6#p165706) seems to be very well done, more than simply a compromise.

SD LD (Short Delay Low Dispersion):

In theory, a filter should have as little phase deviation as possible over the frequency range, have as short a settling time as possible, an acceptable decay time, and provide the maximum possible frequency range without deviation. The stopband attenuation should be high to prevent aliasing. A latency as low as possible would extend the application possibilities to more than just listening to music.

The filter with the bulky name Short Delay Low Dispersion approaches this ideal quite well. It does not have the early treble
attenuation of the slow filters (see chapter 34.14), has a shorter settling time than Slow, an average decay time like Sharp, a phase maximum of only 9° at late 18 kHz (basically phase-linear in the audible range), and a latency of only 10 samples, so that it is also well suited for professional real-time monitoring. This makes it much more than just a successful compromise.

See manual chapter 34.10 - 34.14
   https://www.rme-audio.de/download/adi2profsr_d.pdf
   https://www.rme-audio.de/download/adi2profsr_e.pdf

and this summary:
   http://nihtila.com/2019/10/18/dac-digit … 3-filters/

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: UFX to ADI-2 DAC FS or UFX to UFX II?

ramses wrote:

There is no best filter, there are tradeoffs to be done, but as Matthias Carstens described in the manual, p. 83, the new SD LD filter of the AK4493 (found in the new models ADI-2 DAC FS and ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, model comparison here: https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.ph … 6#p165706) seems to be very well done, more than simply a compromise.

SD LD (Short Delay Low Dispersion):

In theory, a filter should have as little phase deviation as possible over the frequency range, have as short a settling time as possible, an acceptable decay time, and provide the maximum possible frequency range without deviation. The stopband attenuation should be high to prevent aliasing. A latency as low as possible would extend the application possibilities to more than just listening to music.

The filter with the bulky name Short Delay Low Dispersion approaches this ideal quite well. It does not have the early treble
attenuation of the slow filters (see chapter 34.14), has a shorter settling time than Slow, an average decay time like Sharp, a phase maximum of only 9° at late 18 kHz (basically phase-linear in the audible range), and a latency of only 10 samples, so that it is also well suited for professional real-time monitoring. This makes it much more than just a successful compromise.

See manual chapter 34.10 - 34.14
   https://www.rme-audio.de/download/adi2profsr_d.pdf
   https://www.rme-audio.de/download/adi2profsr_e.pdf

and this summary:
   http://nihtila.com/2019/10/18/dac-digit … 3-filters/


As usual, thank you ramses.  I'll try the SD LD filter today.

I am loving the DAC so far.  Not sure if it's a huge audible difference from the conversion in the UFX, but it takes all of the guessing and gives me peace of mind when I mix and master.

Cheers,

Matt

Re: UFX to ADI-2 DAC FS or UFX to UFX II?

CurseesConnect wrote:
ramses wrote:

So your setup consists now of: UFX -> AES / SPDIF -> ADI-2 DAC FS ?

Just my $0.02
to 1) I am using the default filter, other people have other preferences
to 2) You can do it this way, I personally keep the volume of the AES output at 0dB and control the volume at the ADI-2 Pro
to 3) configure Auto-Ref Level and choose a comfortably volume.
         Autoreflevel chooses automatically the best reference level which results in an optimum SNR

If your active monitors allow, turn down the volume there.
To be able to use a volume near to 0dB you might need attenuators additionally to bring the signal down betwee -10 up to -20 or even -30dB, see this thread: https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=25399

So your setup consists now of: UFX -> AES / SPDIF -> ADI-2 DAC FS ?  Yes.

Thank you ramses. 

So if I don't need to have my volume up at 0dB in TM, I can still use it this way and use the ARC to up the volume?  I have turned down the volume on my monitors already.  The only thing is that I put the level pretty low on the DAC to go about midway on the AES out into the DAC.  I'm not sure that would be ideal for possible bursts of sound? 

Not too sure how to go about it.  I would love to be able to use the ARC to set the volume, and I really don't want to add any kind of monitor controllers.


Hello Cursees! I am considering going similar route as yours! How has been serving you?

So I do own a UFX gen 1 and, thinking of upgrading Converter part only, since I only record vocal and guitars one by one (no multi track real-time recording needed), I am not heavily into multi-channel summing for now, so I just am looking to upgrade my conversion for clarity for my mixing?


UFX with ADI-2 Pro FS <--- is it solid way to go...?
Or, are you regretting, not replacing your old UFX with newer UFX 2 or UFX+..?