1 (edited by RMEfanboy 2021-06-15 03:25:12)

Topic: Who would prefer to purchase ADI-2 Pro, instead of replacing old UFX?

Hello,

I will make it short!
Could you please list the cases where, audio engineer purchases ADI-2 Pro and hook it up with an old 1st gen UFX for better conversion (a/d & d/a) and 'NOT' selling it and replacing with just newer flagship model UFX+?


1st gen UFX + ADI-2 Pro (for all conversion processing)

vs

selling 1st gen UFX --> getting UFX+


What would be the case...?
I've just watched this video from RME, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QiFsll_5qIM

Fireface connecting with ADI-2 Pro for better conversion.



If one just merely needs super clean updated conversion, would it be better off adding ADI-2 Pro to the old UFX?
(there are some good deals with ADI-2 Pro around my area... so I am tempted..)


Definitely it is cumbersome. One gotta sell the old UFX, trying the best to get good price.. look for a decent 2nd hand UFX+ unit, you know (if, short on budget)

Thinking, if ADI-2 Pro's conversion is RME's top, then just adding ADI-2 Pro may be more beneficial.
Plus, it is small? and also it works with any other audio interface by digital connection..

hmm...

I know UFX+ has MADI and newer features, but what if one does not need multi-channel real-time recording...?
Just looking to upgrade conversion quality?



Yes. RME representative surprisingly said, UFX 1st gen conversion is 'still' great and no need to replace! haha I do, believe, and I loooooove the 1st gen UFX that is why, I am in the middle of deciding...


hmm.. if you are a mixing and mastering engineer, what would you go for...?
ditching the 1st gen UFX or nah...?

(Sorry, yes, I did ask about ADI-2 Pro a million times... but I just wanted to ask again for clearer answer.......)

2 (edited by ramses 2021-06-15 07:58:01)

Re: Who would prefer to purchase ADI-2 Pro, instead of replacing old UFX?

yes possible, see my blog:
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/ind … our-Setup/

See also this RME video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doHG32aXBDY
"Mastering Engineer Marc Einstmann specialized in high-end mastering and restoration services gives us an insight into his setup and why he uses different AD/DA conversion technologies. "

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

3 (edited by RMEfanboy 2021-06-15 13:46:54)

Re: Who would prefer to purchase ADI-2 Pro, instead of replacing old UFX?

ramses wrote:

yes possible, see my blog:
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/ind … our-Setup/

See also this RME video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doHG32aXBDY
"Mastering Engineer Marc Einstmann specialized in high-end mastering and restoration services gives us an insight into his setup and why he uses different AD/DA conversion technologies. "

Hello, Ramses!

1. Would you ADI-2 Pro FS conversion is the 'same' or 'better' than UFX+?

2. How is ADI-2 Pro FS's headphone amplifier performing? Would it be considered as very high-end headphone amp?

3. Does 'adding ADI-2 Pro FS' simply make my analog A/D recording and D/A monitoring level much much higher and this setup would really upgrade my current setup?




If the conversion is 'as clean/good as' UFX+ I am considering to add ADI-2 Pro FS to my UFX gen 1, it seems very handy too!

But, would you recommend UFX+ as you have before...?


Thanks so much always smile

Re: Who would prefer to purchase ADI-2 Pro, instead of replacing old UFX?

Best try it out yourself.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: Who would prefer to purchase ADI-2 Pro, instead of replacing old UFX?

ramses wrote:

Best try it out yourself.

Thanks. Yeah... I wish I could try em out...! thanks!!

6 (edited by KaiS 2021-06-16 16:02:02)

Re: Who would prefer to purchase ADI-2 Pro, instead of replacing old UFX?

RMEfanboy wrote:
ramses wrote:

Best try it out yourself.

Thanks. Yeah... I wish I could try em out...! thanks!!

I’ve read through your other 35 posts here:
You’re sneaking around the ADI-2 Pro from the start, you really want it.

Go and get it!


ADI-2 Pro will complement your existing setup with the best possible AD and DA conversion.

It’s unique DSP and other features will allow you to use the more musical “Slow” filter for conversion, while the DSP can correct these filter’s treble rolloff.
This gives you the best of both worlds, perfect frequency response AND very good impulse response, resulting in an audibly better musicality.
No other converter can do that, usually one excludes the other.

ADI-2 Pro’s headphones outputs are real “high-end”, by far superior to UFX’s.
Powerful enough to clean-drive EVERY headphone on the market with ease.

The whole ADI-2 Pro is reference-/master-quality.


Ramses had shown how to perfectly integrate ADI-2 Pro in your existing setup.

7 (edited by RMEfanboy 2021-06-16 17:21:07)

Re: Who would prefer to purchase ADI-2 Pro, instead of replacing old UFX?

KaiS wrote:
RMEfanboy wrote:
ramses wrote:

Best try it out yourself.

Thanks. Yeah... I wish I could try em out...! thanks!!

I’ve read through your other 35 posts here:
You’re sneaking around the ADI-2 Pro from the start, you really want it.

Go and get it!


ADI-2 Pro will complement your existing setup with the best possible AD and DA conversion.

It’s unique DSP and other features will allow you to use the more musical “Slow” filter for conversion, while the DSP can correct these filter’s treble rolloff.
This gives you the best of both worlds, perfect frequency response AND very good impulse response, resulting in an audibly better musicality.
No other converter can do that, usually one excludes the other.

ADI-2 Pro’s headphones outputs are real “high-end”, by far superior to UFX’s.
Powerful enough to clean-drive EVERY headphone on the market with ease.

The whole ADI-2 Pro is reference-/master-quality.


Ramses had shown how to perfectly integrate ADI-2 Pro in your existing setup.


haha, yes. I've been eyeing on this battle for about a year.
'UFX+ vs UFX mk1 + ADI-2 Pro FS' <---

I guess, ADI-2 Pro FS <--- I would not regret and I am sure I will be loving the unit for the next 5~10 years.
Also since it is a 'dedicated' converter that is right at the top. So even if I change my audio interface, I can still enjoy its clarity through digital connection.

Wish there were other people like me... considering and deciding on which route to take. I cannot see many.
Of course RME products... you cannot go wrong. But it is just that, I need someone to tell me, that my old UFX mk1 is still relevant and no need to ditch!... lol

But thanks! I should quit asking and get one! haha


I am really more leaning on this route. Keeping my UFX mk1 and get ADI-2 Pro FS.
UFX+ has many other features that I do require... smile

Um, just to clear it out, with ADI-2 Pro FS <--- my recording A to D conversion would also be 'not' compromised and optimized by ADI-2 Pro right...(if I connect it right)?

Upgraded A to D & D to A are all I am longing for smile


Since I am finishing off one of my big project, I am ready to shoot my bullet!

one more q, is there difference between Pro version and Pro FS version?

8 (edited by ramses 2021-06-16 17:59:33)

Re: Who would prefer to purchase ADI-2 Pro, instead of replacing old UFX?

> KaiS: I’ve read through your other 35 posts here:
lol wink

FS = femto second clock

You can see the differences here: https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.ph … 06#p165706

Most people say, audible no difference ..
but if you prefer to also have the best measuring values, then go for ADI-2 Pro FS or even better ADI-2 Pro FS R BE which has also a newer DAC chip with even higher SNR and one more filter mode and .. a remote.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

9 (edited by ning 2021-06-16 18:43:26)

Re: Who would prefer to purchase ADI-2 Pro, instead of replacing old UFX?

> 1. Would you ADI-2 Pro FS conversion is the 'same' or 'better' than UFX+?

better on paper. in reality you won't hear any difference

> 2. How is ADI-2 Pro FS's headphone amplifier performing? Would it be considered as very high-end headphone amp?

very high end indeed. Plenty of power and very low noise. zero output impedance.

UFX's phone has 30ohms output impedance so if you have a low impedance (<=240ohms) headphone you'll have a problematic frequency response curve.

> 3. Does 'adding ADI-2 Pro FS' simply make my analog A/D recording and D/A monitoring level much much higher and this setup would really upgrade my current setup?

ADI-2 Pro FS's level is +24dBu、+19dBu、+13dBu、+4dBu.
Fireface UFX : input:  +19 dBu,  +13 dBu, +2 dBV / output: 24 dBu, Hi Gain, +4 dBu, -10 dBV

so no. it won't give you much higher level.



In a nutshell, ADI-2 Pro may give you a better HP amplifier, lots of new features for HiFi settings (crossfeed, 5band eq, loudness, deemphasis,  etc). Getting a separate HP amplifier (today a sub-$300 THX HP amplifier can easily outperform ADI-2 Pro's)  could save you some money, but you would lose all the amazing features provided by the device.

Re: Who would prefer to purchase ADI-2 Pro, instead of replacing old UFX?

ramses wrote:

> KaiS: I’ve read through your other 35 posts here:
lol wink

FS = femto second clock

You can see the differences here: https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.ph … 06#p165706

Most people say, audible no difference ..
but if you prefer to also have the best measuring values, then go for ADI-2 Pro FS or even better ADI-2 Pro FS R BE which has also a newer DAC chip with even higher SNR and one more filter mode and .. a remote.

Oh yes. I was referring to the flagship ADI model which is ADI-2 Pro FS R black edition <--
thanks!

11 (edited by RMEfanboy 2021-06-17 07:38:38)

Re: Who would prefer to purchase ADI-2 Pro, instead of replacing old UFX?

ning wrote:

> 1. Would you ADI-2 Pro FS conversion is the 'same' or 'better' than UFX+?

better on paper. in reality you won't hear any difference

> 2. How is ADI-2 Pro FS's headphone amplifier performing? Would it be considered as very high-end headphone amp?

very high end indeed. Plenty of power and very low noise. zero output impedance.

UFX's phone has 30ohms output impedance so if you have a low impedance (<=240ohms) headphone you'll have a problematic frequency response curve.

> 3. Does 'adding ADI-2 Pro FS' simply make my analog A/D recording and D/A monitoring level much much higher and this setup would really upgrade my current setup?

ADI-2 Pro FS's level is +24dBu、+19dBu、+13dBu、+4dBu.
Fireface UFX : input:  +19 dBu,  +13 dBu, +2 dBV / output: 24 dBu, Hi Gain, +4 dBu, -10 dBV

so no. it won't give you much higher level.



In a nutshell, ADI-2 Pro may give you a better HP amplifier, lots of new features for HiFi settings (crossfeed, 5band eq, loudness, deemphasis,  etc). Getting a separate HP amplifier (today a sub-$300 THX HP amplifier can easily outperform ADI-2 Pro's)  could save you some money, but you would lose all the amazing features provided by the device.


so no. it won't give you much higher level.  <----

Oh, no.. I meant 'conversion' quality level haha sorry!! haha not the volume level lol...... hahahahaha thanks so much for chiming in!

*And I am only interested in spending my money for upgrading my conversion A/D & D/A 'significantly'...

Re: Who would prefer to purchase ADI-2 Pro, instead of replacing old UFX?

> *And I am only interested in spending my money for upgrading my conversion A/D & D/A 'significantly'...

Fireface UFX has 
AD: THD < -110 dB and SNR =110 dB RMS unweighted
DA: THD< -104 dB and dynamic range = 115 dB RMS unweighted
all IOs have different gain level settings to maximize performance at all levels.
So, it's already sonically transparent. This means even if you get something better you won't hear the difference.

The HP output, on the other hand, is quite old tech so if you have low impedance headphones or if you need more power, upgrading it may make a difference. A separate $250-$300 HP amp can fix the problem entirely.

13 (edited by vinark 2021-06-17 08:38:15)

Re: Who would prefer to purchase ADI-2 Pro, instead of replacing old UFX?

At the level of the ufx a significant upgrade is rather difficult. It will always be subtle at best. It is not going to be from a €400 to a 5000 speaker system upgrade.
But having said that, I upgraded from a adi-8ae and hdsp9632 which are really older to a Babyface pro fs and it is not that it sounds better or different, the sound is more my speakers and headphones I think, but I do make better mix decision's, I just can hear better what I am doing. I do think the fs tech is important for this.

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
Babyface pro fs, HDSP9652+ADI-8AE, HDSP9632

14 (edited by ramses 2021-06-17 09:32:37)

Re: Who would prefer to purchase ADI-2 Pro, instead of replacing old UFX?

It is very difficult to impossible to predict whether you will really have a better sound impression with the ADI-2 Pro FS R BE.

In my opinion it depends on whether the other components in your signal chain are able to reproduce these subtleties at all and how it looks with your hearing (what the ear can still perceive and whether your ear is trained accordingly).

The ADI-2 * alone will not make a Geithain RL906 or Neumann KH 310 or KS Digital C55/C88 or Event Opal out of an active loudspeaker in the price range between €200-800.
To what extent the respective high-quality speaker can fully develop its capabilities depends, among other things, on the room acoustics.

In one point I can reassure you, although I have here at home also a rather poor room acoustics ("bare walls") you can hear the qualities of excellent components very clearly, not only good stereo panorama but you can also hear the very good depth gradation, if the speakers and the components in front of that also give.

But what to answer you now. No one has exactly the same preconditions with you. I can only tell you that the playback quality depends primarily on the source material and then the weakest link in the chain will be the limiting factor.

If someone says, so the ADI-2 Pro gives me no difference, then that can be true (maybe because of limitations of other components in his particular signal chain or hearing capabilities), but I know another report from somebody I know with Yamaha HS8 monitors, that you can hear a clear difference to the previous RME product (can't remember which recording interface, maybe multiface). All I want to say is .. "it depends" ... "there is not only one absolute truth" valid for everybody.

You do yourself a favor to just try it yourself ;-) Or take a die and roll it ;-)
But to go on about it in text form and to theorize about it makes no sense at all in my opinion. You simply have to perceive and experience sound. It's also hard to write about a guitar, how great it plays or sounds, you have to take it in your hand, these are "organic things" somewhere, which can't be fully determined by any measured values.

And the sum of the resulting quality is always the sum of the individual components and the weakest component limits the total quality. In Formula 1, you can only achieve a victory if everything is well coordinated.

So maybe better stop asking, instead of this become active yourself and check it out for YOU personally, in YOUR environment using YOUR signal chain and listening to YOUR audio material.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: Who would prefer to purchase ADI-2 Pro, instead of replacing old UFX?

ning wrote:

> *And I am only interested in spending my money for upgrading my conversion A/D & D/A 'significantly'...

Fireface UFX has 
AD: THD < -110 dB and SNR =110 dB RMS unweighted
DA: THD< -104 dB and dynamic range = 115 dB RMS unweighted
all IOs have different gain level settings to maximize performance at all levels.
So, it's already sonically transparent. This means even if you get something better you won't hear the difference.

The HP output, on the other hand, is quite old tech so if you have low impedance headphones or if you need more power, upgrading it may make a difference. A separate $250-$300 HP amp can fix the problem entirely.

Thanks! Wow... UFX 'is' and still is the sh!t then...?! sorry for my language...! I really should and probably can use it for 3~4 more years...! (I guess!)
I should have appreciated it more! I cannot work without TotalMix smile

That being said, yeah.. totally, I mix with headphones too and I for real am looking for a good HP out smile thanks for the insight!

Re: Who would prefer to purchase ADI-2 Pro, instead of replacing old UFX?

vinark wrote:

At the level of the ufx a significant upgrade is rather difficult. It will always be subtle at best. It is not going to be from a €400 to a 5000 speaker system upgrade.
But having said that, I upgraded from a adi-8ae and hdsp9632 which are really older to a Babyface pro fs and it is not that it sounds better or different, the sound is more my speakers and headphones I think, but I do make better mix decision's, I just can hear better what I am doing. I do think the fs tech is important for this.

Ah! Ok smile this type of personal experience review note was what I was looking for, totally smile  I will still eye on ADI-2 Pro FS R and the new UCX ii, possibly UFX+

Indeed, I am sure I will not hear the difference.. haha..

It is just that, I was worried that this UFX gen1 unit has been around almost 10 years... so maybe I should get it checked from somewhere u know. I wonder RME does this. I think warranty has been expired ages ago..

Re: Who would prefer to purchase ADI-2 Pro, instead of replacing old UFX?

ramses wrote:

It is very difficult to impossible to predict whether you will really have a better sound impression with the ADI-2 Pro FS R BE.

In my opinion it depends on whether the other components in your signal chain are able to reproduce these subtleties at all and how it looks with your hearing (what the ear can still perceive and whether your ear is trained accordingly).

The ADI-2 * alone will not make a Geithain RL906 or Neumann KH 310 or KS Digital C55/C88 or Event Opal out of an active loudspeaker in the price range between €200-800.
To what extent the respective high-quality speaker can fully develop its capabilities depends, among other things, on the room acoustics.

In one point I can reassure you, although I have here at home also a rather poor room acoustics ("bare walls") you can hear the qualities of excellent components very clearly, not only good stereo panorama but you can also hear the very good depth gradation, if the speakers and the components in front of that also give.

But what to answer you now. No one has exactly the same preconditions with you. I can only tell you that the playback quality depends primarily on the source material and then the weakest link in the chain will be the limiting factor.

If someone says, so the ADI-2 Pro gives me no difference, then that can be true (maybe because of limitations of other components in his particular signal chain or hearing capabilities), but I know another report from somebody I know with Yamaha HS8 monitors, that you can hear a clear difference to the previous RME product (can't remember which recording interface, maybe multiface). All I want to say is .. "it depends" ... "there is not only one absolute truth" valid for everybody.

You do yourself a favor to just try it yourself ;-) Or take a die and roll it ;-)
But to go on about it in text form and to theorize about it makes no sense at all in my opinion. You simply have to perceive and experience sound. It's also hard to write about a guitar, how great it plays or sounds, you have to take it in your hand, these are "organic things" somewhere, which can't be fully determined by any measured values.

And the sum of the resulting quality is always the sum of the individual components and the weakest component limits the total quality. In Formula 1, you can only achieve a victory if everything is well coordinated.

So maybe better stop asking, instead of this become active yourself and check it out for YOU personally, in YOUR environment using YOUR signal chain and listening to YOUR audio material.

Thanks Ramses!
I cannot agree more and def. I gotta upgrade my signal chains smile
UFX is more than good enough (actually).


Extremely sorry for repeatedly posting the same Q.. haha smile

Re: Who would prefer to purchase ADI-2 Pro, instead of replacing old UFX?

Fanboy,

While as a Home Listener, I really have no place in this particular discussion...

I truly Admire Ramses' pragmatic views, and his Focus upon the Real Issues at play.  The Speakers, the Room, the Source, and even our own Ears weigh far more heavily upon the end result than does having the "newest" 

Any RME, new or old provides the user with the most Neutral/Stable platform upon which to make decisions.

Best to You in your endeavors.

Curt

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic AKM4490 Edition"
Cables:  Red, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes