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RME User Forum → ADI-2 & 2/4 Pro series, ADI-2 DAC series → Linear power supply
Has anybody tried a linear power supply with the ADI 2 DAC? I know the manual says that there is no benefit, but often linear power supplies appear to improve sound.
It.Does.Not.
it just doesn't improve sound. it performs worse in many cases. see benchmark audio's blog:
https://benchmarkmedia.com/blogs/applic … -are-noisy
In ADI-2's case, the machine uses flyback converter to generate +/- 16V from the DC input.
Having a linear power supply before the flyback converter is useless, as what you end up having after the flyback converter is switch-mode DC anyway.
The OPA1602 Op Amps and DAC chip are powered by linear regulators so the voltage is always linear regulated. DAC chip in this case is even double linear regulated. There's 0 reason to use additional linear power supply.
I use the iFi iPower Elite (very clean switched mode power supply), people here will tell you there's no way it can possibly sound any different but I can assure you that it does.
I use the iFi iPower Elite (very clean switched mode power supply), people here will tell you there's no way it can possibly sound any different but I can assure you that it does.
...but does it sound any better?
mediummanting wrote:I use the iFi iPower Elite (very clean switched mode power supply), people here will tell you there's no way it can possibly sound any different but I can assure you that it does.
...but does it sound any better?
Significantly.
mediummanting wrote:I use the iFi iPower Elite (very clean switched mode power supply), people here will tell you there's no way it can possibly sound any different but I can assure you that it does.
...but does it sound any better?
I think a few beers or a good whisky are more effective in “enhancing” the sound, cheaper too. 
...
I think a few beers or a good whisky are more effective in “enhancing” the sound, cheaper too.
OT: I'm 63 now and when I think about what I spend on good whisky and what I spend on electronic audio equipment, I can't agree that whisky is the cheaper option. 
Bonky wrote:mediummanting wrote:I use the iFi iPower Elite (very clean switched mode power supply), people here will tell you there's no way it can possibly sound any different but I can assure you that it does.
...but does it sound any better?
I think a few beers or a good whisky are more effective in “enhancing” the sound, cheaper too.
+1
Nicely said Nicked_Wicked. I didn't really want to say anything, because all too often you don't make friends with such remarks, or you tie yourself up in completely unnecessary and time-consuming discussions.
We had such topics quite often already in this forum and in a case of bad luck we end in an emotionally heated discussions.
Common spirit on RME forum is, that we should avoid to continue to "fuel" such news or to argue us here.
In short, there are a few root causes for all these HiFi myths ..
- psycho acoustic effects (+)coupled with wrong measuring methodology
- industry / shops telling you bullshit stories about that, because they can make a lot of money with it
- online forums / magazines in which such pseudo-truths spread like wildfire because people like to believe in such things / success stories. And the more people join this opinion, supported by all the usual "brain effects" that are called "psychoacoustic", the more the pseudo-truth is confirmed.
Thanks for being so kind / cooperative to leave such discussions out of this forum.
(+) Google "psychoacoustics", this is not a voodoo story, these effects are real, are as far as I remember also scientifically studied and proven and you should know that whenever you or other ppl test something.
Our brain has its own way of interpreting things. If you want something to sound better, that has been pimped with a better cable or power supply, then our brain makes sure that you interpret it that way.
In addition, you should know about typical basics when listening to music, that e.g. louder always sounds better, so always compare at exactly the same level !! And these comparisons must be quickly changeable, because our brain can not remember small differences in sound. You must be able to quickly switch in seconds or below second.
And because of all these psychoacoustic effects, a blind test or double blind test should be performed to exclude any manipulation or wrong results. You do not help yourself or other if you only very subjectively "think" it sounded better.
I am meanwhile also careful about sound, because everybody has other ears, rooms, equipment and taste / listening habits.
Thank you for the confirmations that a linear power supply is a waste of time and money. Of course any time and money wasted would be mine were I to try one.
Do you also hold that all audiophile cables (interconnect and speaker) are also a waste of time and money?
Thank you for the confirmations that a linear power supply is a waste of time and money. Of course any time and money wasted would be mine were I to try one.
Do you also hold that all audiophile cables (interconnect and speaker) are also a waste of time and money?
See e-mail / check spam folder if nothing arrives.
Nicked_Wicked wrote:...
I think a few beers or a good whisky are more effective in “enhancing” the sound, cheaper too. ;)OT: I'm 63 now and when I think about what I spend on good whisky and what I spend on electronic audio equipment, I can't agree that whisky is the cheaper option. :p
as someone who have allergy to alcohol, I kinda feel that I saved huge amount of $$$.
Good reason to buy more audio equipments then. :-P
Thank you for the confirmations that a linear power supply is a waste of time and money. Of course any time and money wasted would be mine were I to try one.
Do you also hold that all audiophile cables (interconnect and speaker) are also a waste of time and money?
Yes
Meshplate wrote:Thank you for the confirmations that a linear power supply is a waste of time and money. Of course any time and money wasted would be mine were I to try one.
Do you also hold that all audiophile cables (interconnect and speaker) are also a waste of time and money?
Yes
Cables should be designed and engineered within appropriate engineering specifications. You obviously need them but you do not need expensive audio jewelry that provides no objective technical or sonic advantages over decent performing cables. But , your money and personal preferences prevail.
I saw some expensive and thick cables, really expensive and thick, the weight itself might pull down a heavy amplifier if not supported correctly, but, look closely, the IEC plug is the same size, the socket at the equipment is nothing special, the wires inside the equipment is nothing special, oh ... the fuse is thin, the fuse clip is not golden even you put a golden fuse into it ... Speakers, inside the speaker crossover and wires to the tweeter and woofer inside the cabinet looks nothing special ....... oh no ......
Thank you for the confirmations that a linear power supply is a waste of time and money. Of course any time and money wasted would be mine were I to try one.
Do you also hold that all audiophile cables (interconnect and speaker) are also a waste of time and money?
Speaker cables are an exception, at least it’s possible to measure little differences.
Main effects of too thin cables are:
• Slight power loss (usually less than 1 dB) e.g. 10 m 0.75 mm² / AWG 18 into 4 Ohms speaker looses 1 dB, this a really long, thin wire!
• Frequency response changes (to the better or worse!), caused from the complex load a speaker usually presents.
• Slightly higher nonlinear distortions in multi-way speakers, as some of the (mostly woofer’s) current distortion creeps as voltage into the midrange / tweeter path.
• Opposed to what is false “common knowledge”, electrical damping factor is NO problem, as speakers have a high mechanical damping and the electrical damping does not significantly change anyway even with thin cables.
The “better controlled bass” is a myth.
• Other myths are “skin effect”, “impedance matching”, “microphonics” (ha-ha!) and the like...
These effects do not exist for audio frequencies and home use distances, or even don’t make sense for speakers at all.
This is simple physics, if you drive a power consuming load, cables need to have the proper dimensions or you have loss.
By no means you need expensive “audiophile” cables!
For usual home distances you just need thick enough copper, to minimize cable resistance.
AWG 11 / 4 mm² or AWG 9 / 6 mm² is by far sufficient in most cases.
If you want something beyond all blame go for non-audiophile coax speaker cable that is available in pro audio / musicians shops, like:
this one 4 mm² / ca. AWG 11:
https://www.thomann.de/de/sommer_cable_magellan_240.htm
or this one 6 mm² / ca. AWG 9:
https://www.thomann.de/de/sommer_cable_ … 0_frnc.htm
It’s low inductance even drives very critical speakers over longer distance.
Look at the price and then laugh into the face of the “audiophile“ rip-off guys.
Sooner or later, those cable and power supply companies will join together and sell a house with perfect setting, together with correct humidity and atomosphere pressure, which can make listener a perfect audiophile mood.....
"Look at the price and then laugh into the face of the “audiophile“ rip-off guys."
I don't recall anyone ever being forced to buy a cable they didn't want to buy.
For some people, a RME DAC is a ridiculous waste of money because their phone or computer is good enough and they will laugh at you. What will you say to them?
If you can't hear the difference cables make is one thing. However if that is true, you probably won't be able to hear the difference between a RME and a budget DAC or computer card either.
Stating that cables make no difference while refusing to test that hypothesis is just being closed minded.
What do you say to those who say a phone or computer sound card is good enough and you don't need a dac because they can't hear the difference?
"Look at the price and then laugh into the face of the “audiophile“ rip-off guys."
I don't recall anyone ever being forced to buy a cable they didn't want to buy.
For some people, a RME DAC is a ridiculous waste of money because their phone or computer is good enough and they will laugh at you. What will you say to them?
If you can't hear the difference cables make is one thing. However if that is true, you probably won't be able to hear the difference between a RME and a budget DAC or computer card either.
Stating that cables make no difference while refusing to test that hypothesis is just being closed minded.
What do you say to those who say a phone or computer sound card is good enough and you don't need a dac because they can't hear the difference?
You are totally right, if one can’t hear the difference or doesn’t care he can save the money.
And - don’t worry, I can hear the difference.
Just yesterday I did a blind A/B testing between ADI-2 Pro and Qudelix 5K.
Both where calibrated for exact same loudness, and switching was immediate, uninterrupted.
There is an audible difference that I identified with over 90% hit rate.
The point is not whether you can hear the difference.
I am criticizing the argument of people who say, "I can't hear a difference, therefore there is no difference." That is a fallacy and is the kind of argument made here by the so-called measurement people. They can only say, "there is no difference that I can hear."
For these measurement fans, there is a new king according ASR. The new Topping D90SE measures better than any other DAC they have measured so far. Better than the RME included. According to the measurement people, this makes it the best DAC.
According to them however, below a threshold long ago achieved all DACs are audibly indistinguishable. But they say that not based on listening comparison, but simply on the belief DACs now measure so well, that they should in theory all sound the same. I am sorry this is just not true. A Topping D90SE will sound different to the RME. As far as those who can't tell the difference between the RME and the DCS, it sounds to me that they don't want to hear a difference because they want to believe a cheaper product is as good as a more expensive one. And therefore that they have made the right choice rather than those idiots who have fallen for "audiophile nonsense."
Yes a Tesla is now a faster car than a Porsche. Does that mean it is a better car than a Porsche? Obviously, there is more to a car than just acceleration times.
My point is we should make our own choices and not give up our independent power of choosing to an ideology of so called objective measurements being the first and only yardstick of sound quality. Measurements are just not a reliable predictor of sound quality.
I think both measurement and listening test are important, may be plus a third one: price ....
Some equipment with perfect measurement but could be it doesn't fit to individual's taste at all, even he/she likes it, the price is affordable or not?
Listening test is very subjective, even someone lies about it, I can name two examples, one is a joke I made decades ago, someone name himself a Hi-Fi master, so I told him I heard a classical piece, which at the left side there is a sound of hitting a triangle, he said he also heard it, then I told him there is no triangle at that performance at all ....
Recently I watched a youtube video, someone tested the Austrian Audio Hi-X55, (I own one), he said it was so nice that he can count the kid's footsteps running on gravel from a music piece of a Japanese recording (New Light by Kazukii), he count 14-15, and Focal (forgot the model name) even better, which he can count 16, ... I listen to that recording, I barely can hear some, sounds like footsteps but not more than 3-4 .... I doubted if it is the sound of footsteps or not.
Measurement charts we can read (provided that it is true), but we have to be careful that comments from a listerner could be just a lie ...
So listen by yourself to see if you like it or not .....
The point is not whether you can hear the difference.
I am criticizing the argument of people who say, "I can't hear a difference, therefore there is no difference." That is a fallacy and is the kind of argument made here by the so-called measurement people. They can only say, "there is no difference that I can hear."
For these measurement fans, there is a new king according ASR. The new Topping D90SE measures better than any other DAC they have measured so far. Better than the RME included. According to the measurement people, this makes it the best DAC.
According to them however, below a threshold long ago achieved all DACs are audibly indistinguishable. But they say that not based on listening comparison, but simply on the belief DACs now measure so well, that they should in theory all sound the same. I am sorry this is just not true. A Topping D90SE will sound different to the RME. As far as those who can't tell the difference between the RME and the DCS, it sounds to me that they don't want to hear a difference because they want to believe a cheaper product is as good as a more expensive one. And therefore that they have made the right choice rather than those idiots who have fallen for "audiophile nonsense."
Yes a Tesla is now a faster car than a Porsche. Does that mean it is a better car than a Porsche? Obviously, there is more to a car than just acceleration times.
My point is we should make our own choices and not give up our independent power of choosing to an ideology of so called objective measurements being the first and only yardstick of sound quality. Measurements are just not a reliable predictor of sound quality.
I‘m more or less in the same boat as you, except that:
• I can do the measurements by myself and have 1st hand knowledge about their capabilities AND limitations.
• A/B listening (not exactly testing) is a permanent part of my job.
I‘m audio engineer and do hear the original - acoustic from the musician, and pure analog from the microphone - vs the recorded digital result all day long.
• Blind A/B testing under very controlled conditions is an easy task for me, I even built test rigs for that.
• I prefer testing of acoustic transducers over electronics like DACs and amps.
The latter often, but not always, is fruitless, as even differently measuring electronics can sound indistinguishable in blind A/B.
Acoustic transducer, loudspeakers, microphones and headphones, always do sound different, this is more fun testing ... or building.
• I don’t care about ideologies and do (practically!) question those from time to time.
Practical proof is my measure.
All I tell is based on my own experience, this logically means, your mileage may vary.
BTW: how do you know the Topping sounds different? Did you test it?
As far as those who can't tell the difference between the RME and the DCS, it sounds to me that they don't want to hear a difference because they want to believe a cheaper product is as good as a more expensive one.
Meshplate, there was a blind test RME vs dCS. How can you know which gear is cheap/expensive in blind test?
And yes, sometimes the cheaper sounds the same like expensive.
If there's any magic - it's only in your head.
Enjoy the music! 
Best, Siemak
I bought a linear power supply (KECES P3) and now use it to supply 15V DC to my ADI 2 FS DAC. It makes a solid improvement. There is more detail, deeper more defined bass, more separation of instruments, better all around in fact. To the non believers, I say it's not worth arguing in isolation of experience. Rather it is a matter of hearing the difference. Theory (prejudice) vs experience. Just try it for yourself, but don't say "a linear power supply can't make a difference because it says so in the manual" because a good linear supply does make an audible difference.
I bought a linear power supply (KECES P3) and now use it to supply 15V DC to my ADI 2 FS DAC. It makes a solid improvement. There is more detail, deeper more defined bass, more separation of instruments, better all around in fact. To the non believers, I say it's not worth arguing in isolation of experience. Rather it is a matter of hearing the difference. Theory (prejudice) vs experience. Just try it for yourself, but don't say "a linear power supply can't make a difference because it says so in the manual" because a good linear supply does make an audible difference.
Seems like everyone here who has tried one has heard a difference.
The only question is what technical background the people have, whether they have applied the correct methodology and excluded known sources of error, because otherwise such statements are worthless.
There are also still people who claim that expensive digital cables would sound better which is pure nonsense.
The only question is what technical background the people have, whether they have applied the correct methodology and excluded known sources of error, because otherwise such statements are worthless.
There are also still people who claim that expensive digital cables would sound better which is pure nonsense.
The included USB cable of the DAC is too long for me, I found one old short USB cable from the parts bin for it, I only clean the dust and contacts, it sounds the same.
The only difference I heard is from the DAC, it is much better than my old low end equipment, and the DALI Spektor 1 sounds even sweeter :-)
Yup, if you couldn't rely on digital transmission to work with a €5 USB cable, then you should start to worry about the state of backup on USB disks ...
Yes, some people bought high end Cat 5 cable for their streamer .... but you can download few GB of data with a cheap cable without one byte lost.
Of course, clean, good contact is a must.
Yes, some people bought high end Cat 5 cable for their streamer .... but you can download few GB of data with a cheap cable without one byte lost.
Of course, clean, good contact is a must.
Exactly .. and you have possibilities to check quality of transfer
a) in the driver settings, see crc errors
b) end-to-end test between player and DAC by performing the bittest
If the bittest succeeds .. clear indication, that every relevant bit of audio has been transferred properly.
The only question is what technical background the people have, whether they have applied the correct methodology and excluded known sources of error, because otherwise such statements are worthless.
There are also still people who claim that expensive digital cables would sound better which is pure nonsense.
Two absolutely fatuous comments. You don't have to be an engineer to hear. You don't have to be a luthier to know that one instrument plays better than another, musicians know that, or an automotive engineer to know that one car drives better than another.
If you really want to use a $2 USB cable that came with free with a printer and insist it is perfect, go ahead. How you ever stumped up the cash a piece of gear as costly as a RME dac beggars belief. There are plenty of sub $100 dacs that would have been perfect for you. And class D amps under $200 that measure perfectly. Of course you don't have a streaming transport either because bits are bits.
And yes, the sound quality of my analogue turntable and preamp far, far exceeds the sound quality of the RME DAC or any other digital source I have ever heard. The analogue source is so much better, it is not even close, but I like the variety of music available from streaming companies. Don't tell me about the technical limitations of LP playback because we all know, but that is beside the point. Vinyl has a scale, detail, depth and width of soundstage that the RME can't get within 70% of.
ramses wrote:The only question is what technical background the people have, whether they have applied the correct methodology and excluded known sources of error, because otherwise such statements are worthless.
There are also still people who claim that expensive digital cables would sound better which is pure nonsense.
Two absolutely fatuous comments. You don't have to be an engineer to hear. You don't have to be a luthier to know that one instrument plays better than another, musicians know that, or an automotive engineer to know that one car drives better than another.
If you really want to use a $2 USB cable that came with free with a printer and insist it is perfect, go ahead. How you ever stumped up the cash a piece of gear as costly as a RME dac beggars belief. There are plenty of sub $100 dacs that would have been perfect for you. And class D amps under $200 that measure perfectly. Of course you don't have a streaming transport either because bits are bits.
And yes, the sound quality of my analogue turntable and preamp far, far exceeds the sound quality of the RME DAC or any other digital source I have ever heard. The analogue source is so much better, it is not even close, but I like the variety of music available from streaming companies. Don't tell me about the technical limitations of LP playback because we all know, but that is beside the point. Vinyl has a scale, detail, depth and width of soundstage that the RME can't get within 70% of.
This RME forum seems to be of little value for your audio hobby. Technology is the focus here and subjective observations are of value if backed up with some data, measurements( as best possible) and some blind listening tests.
Quote: “I say it's not worth arguing in isolation of experience. Rather it is a matter of hearing the difference. Theory (prejudice) vs experience.”
Quote: “Two absolutely fatuous comments.”
With respect, the above are: ”two absolutely fatuous comments”, to borrow your own phrase.
The digital designers I know, (who happen to be amongst the most highly respected in the world) use both the laws of physics and sophisticated computer modelling to enable them to predict outcomes, without having to physically build an entire caboodle, simply to try something out.
They do so in isolation of experience.
The car you drive has a safety certification. It's manufacturers performed specific crash tests to ensure the crumple zones fold and the side bars hold correctly, during common accident scenarios.
Although they perform these tests with actual car bodies, they perform a great many more tests, utilising advanced computer simulation. It saves having to build an completely trimmed prototype vehicle, simply to try something out, that will immediately, completely destroy it.
They do so in isolation of experience. The cost saving in car bodies and time reduction cut in model cycle from prototype to series production, is remarkable.
Theories can be prejudiced, and are often are held onto, even when proven wrong, such is the frailty of the human personality. This is true.
It is however, none the less true, that experience can also be prejudiced, one example of that is known as confirmation bias, involving biased information search, interpretation, and memory recall. Attitude polarization, belief perseverance, illusory correlation, inductive reasoning, etc. et al.
Quote: “You don't have to be an engineer to hear.”
As you argue in favour of experience over isolation, I can categorically state that my experience in recording studios is that the best listeners (who always make the best hearers) are mastering engineers, followed by recording engineers, and then musicians, who are usually the worst.
It's not uncommon in recording studios for engineers to inform musicians that their instrument in fact needs tuning. Strange as it may seem, its often true. Perhaps because their attention is somewhat distracted? Perhaps because they often hear their instrument, off axis to its projection of sound? Perhaps its being in an unfamiliar acoustic environment? Perhaps it just needs tuning to the track?
Quote: "you don't have to be a luthier to know that one instrument plays better than another, musicians know that.”
The thing about Luthiers is that they know WHY an instrument plays better than another for a particular individual, and just as importantly, what its built like within.
Musicians often “feel” an instrument plays well, but if you were to ask them to explain “why” that is so, they are very commonly unable to specifically define what precisely it is about an instrument, that makes them feel like that.
I could explain it to them, and they would immediately gain a deeply profound, perspicacious insight, into what to some of us, is blindingly obvious. In the same manner that Dr. Watson found Sherlock Holmes explanations of his incredible deductions, completely obvious once they were explained to him.
You must appreciate that to be able to write this, I have had very, very, many such explanatory conversations.
Quote: “you don’t need to be automotive engineer to know that one car drives better than another.”
This reminded me of your earlier statement.
Quote: “Yes a Tesla is now a faster car than a Porsche. Does that mean it is a better car than a Porsche? Obviously, there is more to a car than just acceleration times.”
It's humbling to realise a chameleon can accelerate from 0-60 mph in 100th sec.
A little while back, just before I retired, Elon Musk came here with his top of the line Tesla in gleaming nightfire red.
He gave a talk in a magnificent building that can hold a thousand, before a very select audience, of merely, just around three dozen people.
After the talk, a particular group of individuals were invited to a lavishly sumptuous dinner in a prestigious college with the Dean who is an old friend of Elon’s.
Elon made direct job offers to the group and seven of my old pals and colleagues took up his offer, and now are working at Space X in California, or another of his vehicle related ventures elsewhere.
He was very easy to talk with, extremely humble indeed. Perhaps it was the distinguished setting?
I have personally known, liked and admired Herbert Diess for over 21 years.
He is the Chairman of Volkswagen Passenger Cars, Audi, SEAT, ŠKODA, Bentley, Bugatti, Lamborghini, Porsche, Ducati, Volkswagen Commercial Vehicles, Scania and MAN.
In 2018 he was named as one of the world best CEO’s which was no surprise to me whatever.
Actually, his favourite mode of transport, is riding a bicycle!
Therefore, I could answer your question incredibly comprehensively, but it would involve confidential, privately funded scientific research, reams of highly technical information, encompass sensitive, political issues and the singular, definitive, optimal solution, for the replacement of the internal combustion engine.
So, I will simply state that the most important differential is likely to be “the driver”.
“The driver” being, a huge part of why RME, is so highly rated.
Amongst recording professionals everywhere.
I wish you well!
Thank you for the confirmations that a linear power supply is a waste of time and money. Of course any time and money wasted would be mine were I to try one.
Do you also hold that all audiophile cables (interconnect and speaker) are also a waste of time and money?
Cables make no difference (standard-cables are good enough this is true for analog cables and much more for digital cables).
See here an extensive test with RME ADI2Pro:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/foru … ack.19850/
If you do not believe, try yourself.
Peter
Meshplate wrote:Thank you for the confirmations that a linear power supply is a waste of time and money. Of course any time and money wasted would be mine were I to try one.
Do you also hold that all audiophile cables (interconnect and speaker) are also a waste of time and money?
Cables make no difference (standard-cables are good enough this is true for analog cables and much more for digital cables).
See here an extensive test with RME ADI2Pro:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/foru … ack.19850/If you do not believe, try yourself.
Peter
I would say the only time when a cable may make a "difference" is in headphone cables. The cable itself may rub against your clothes and create mechanical noise like this. So depending on what it is made out of it may make some difference.
Also you can get cables that look cool.
Also at least technically having the left and right channels completely separated until they join at the connector may (or may not) reduce some interference.
Quote: “you can get cables that look cool.”
Many years ago, for some reason or other, lots of people would approach me for advice on what expensive Hi-Fi System they should purchase.
At the time, manufacturers (who advertise in Hi-Fi magazines) had realised that there was great potential in low research and development cost / low manufacturing cost / high profit margin / exotic looking, cables.
Self-appointed, supposedly expert article writers, actively promoted the notion that whatever your budget for a Hi-Fi system was, you should allow 15% of the budget, for such cables.
Naturally, it was something I was regularly asked about.
My answer always went as follows:
“Don’t spend a single penny, on purchasing extra cables.”
“You will have already paid for perfectly suitable cables that accompany the product, direct from the manufacturer, that will enable everything to hook up successfully.”
"Instead, put the 15% you were intending to spend on cables, towards a better, higher quality Hi-Fi system than the one you were thinking of purchasing. It will prove to be a wise investment, as in the future, you won’t be tempted to upgrade your Hi-Fi System for a very long time, saving you money."
"You will own the System that in your wildest dreams you thought you could never afford, it will sound significantly better, give greater musical enjoyment and satisfaction and best of all, will cost you nothing whatever extra over the original sum you have already budgeted for. A far better System, for the same money.”
“If, in six months or a year’s time, when your bank balance has recovered, if you wanted to upgrade your system.”
“You could choose to buy a single exotic cable and listen to see if it genuinely makes a real difference. You may feel it doesn’t, but it won’t have cost you much to discover that fact.”
"If you feel it does make a difference, you can easily purchase further cables as and when you wish and simply swap them out. The point is, doing things this way you will own a higher quality, significantly better sounding Hi-Fi, right from the get go.”
None ever argued, complained, or was dissatisfied following this advice.
In my time I have encountered: “Bi-Directionality” in cables, (the current prefers to run within the cable in a particular direction and doesn’t sound as good the other way around).
“Barometric Stabilisation” cables. “Temperature Controlled” cables. “Temperature Compensated” cables. “Silver Sonic” cables (that cancel and eliminate magnetic interference).
“Micro diode” cables (seemingly, another form of bi-directional cable, ensuring the manner in electrons move, when strands touch). “Ultra low jitter” cables. “Active signal” cables. “Shaking cables” (the electrons vibrate internally, like a guitar string).
“Slow drawn” cables, “Single-Crystal Copper” cables, “Quantum Purifier” cables. “Equal Delay” cables. “Magnetic Field Absorber” cables, “Fast Response” cables, “Isolation Cable Stands” (that hold the cable from the floor, to isolate them from being influenced by vibrations). And last but not least by any stretch of the imagination. “Alien Technology” cables, smuggled out of Area 51.
I kid you not!
A little while after he had his heart bypass operation, the audiophile mastering engineer and author Bob Katz, came here, just around the corner from me, to give a lecture.
(There’s a large Neve Console, a large SSL Console and an 88 piece Symphony Orchestra can be accommodated).
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Mastering-Audi … 0240818962
Here’s his recording of the Space Shuttle taking off!
https://www.digido.com/portfolio-item/w … -surround/
https://www.digido.com/articles/
Quote Bob Katz: “my reputation as an audiophile is based on having a pair of critically-trained ears with some grey matter in between!”
I like him!
RME also sell cables from ALVA, both belongs to Audio AG.
If RME throw in a cable and power supply as what we got in the package, both are good enough for the task, I do not think they risk ruining their own product/ Brand image by saving ten or twenty Euros from not give you some
thing like ALVA grade, because you do not need it. Or someone prefer to pay 500 Euros more for the whole package with some nice looking cable and power supply which serve the same function and let RME earn more?
Regarding the included power supply, RME did wrote about it at the manual. I did read everything of the manual since end June, after I got the DAC this Tuesday, I test and try the DAC and I read it again and just finished few hours ago.
What is missed from the package? may be some dust covers for the input and outputs terminals ......
At my current set up, I do not use the XLR port, so I bought two Neutrik NDM rubber cover to seal it, it cost 1.4 Euro including postage in Hongkong.
Quote: “you can get cables that look cool.”
Many years ago, for some reason or other, lots of people would approach me for advice on what expensive Hi-Fi System they should purchase.
At the time, manufacturers (who advertise in Hi-Fi magazines) had realised that there was great potential in low research and development cost / low manufacturing cost / high profit margin / exotic looking, cables.
Self-appointed, supposedly expert article writers, actively promoted the notion that whatever your budget for a Hi-Fi system was, you should allow 15% of the budget, for such cables.
Naturally, it was something I was regularly asked about.
My answer always went as follows:
“Don’t spend a single penny, on purchasing extra cables.”
“You will have already paid for perfectly suitable cables that accompany the product, direct from the manufacturer, that will enable everything to hook up successfully.”
"Instead, put the 15% you were intending to spend on cables, towards a better, higher quality Hi-Fi system than the one you were thinking of purchasing. It will prove to be a wise investment, as in the future, you won’t be tempted to upgrade your Hi-Fi System for a very long time, saving you money."
"You will own the System that in your wildest dreams you thought you could never afford, it will sound significantly better, give greater musical enjoyment and satisfaction and best of all, will cost you nothing whatever extra over the original sum you have already budgeted for. A far better System, for the same money.”
“If, in six months or a year’s time, when your bank balance has recovered, if you wanted to upgrade your system.”
“You could choose to buy a single exotic cable and listen to see if it genuinely makes a real difference. You may feel it doesn’t, but it won’t have cost you much to discover that fact.”
"If you feel it does make a difference, you can easily purchase further cables as and when you wish and simply swap them out. The point is, doing things this way you will own a higher quality, significantly better sounding Hi-Fi, right from the get go.”
None ever argued, complained, or was dissatisfied following this advice.
In my time I have encountered: “Bi-Directionality” in cables, (the current prefers to run within the cable in a particular direction and doesn’t sound as good the other way around).
“Barometric Stabilisation” cables. “Temperature Controlled” cables. “Temperature Compensated” cables. “Silver Sonic” cables (that cancel and eliminate magnetic interference).
“Micro diode” cables (seemingly, another form of bi-directional cable, ensuring the manner in electrons move, when strands touch). “Ultra low jitter” cables. “Active signal” cables. “Shaking cables” (the electrons vibrate internally, like a guitar string).
“Slow drawn” cables, “Single-Crystal Copper” cables, “Quantum Purifier” cables. “Equal Delay” cables. “Magnetic Field Absorber” cables, “Fast Response” cables, “Isolation Cable Stands” (that hold the cable from the floor, to isolate them from being influenced by vibrations). And last but not least by any stretch of the imagination. “Alien Technology” cables, smuggled out of Area 51.
I kid you not!
A little while after he had his heart bypass operation, the audiophile mastering engineer and author Bob Katz, came here, just around the corner from me, to give a lecture.
(There’s a large Neve Console, a large SSL Console and an 88 piece Symphony Orchestra can be accommodated).
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Mastering-Audi … 0240818962
Here’s his recording of the Space Shuttle taking off!
https://www.digido.com/portfolio-item/w … -surround/
https://www.digido.com/articles/
Quote Bob Katz: “my reputation as an audiophile is based on having a pair of critically-trained ears with some grey matter in between!”
I like him!
I completely agree with you. I hope my post was not misunderstood. When I meant to pay more for headphone cables, I meant to pay maybe 10$ more for a cable sleeve.
For example the stock cable that comes with the Audeze LCD-X headphones is great, but it is quite stiff and whenever it hits my chair or desk I can hear the bump in my headphones. One can either get used to it or just buy one with a fabric cover, or just cover the stock cable in some fabric.
At my current set up, I do not use the XLR port, so I bought two Neutrik NDM rubber cover to seal it, it cost 1.4 Euro including postage in Hongkong.
Johannes,
Maybe post a Link to those Neutrik Plugs. Not for myself, but I'd wager that there's other users here who may find those quite useful.
Albeit at 1.4 Euro? There goes my budget. 
On Cables?
I couldn't resist. Enjoy!
Johannes AU wrote:At my current set up, I do not use the XLR port, so I bought two Neutrik NDM rubber cover to seal it, it cost 1.4 Euro including postage in Hongkong.
Johannes,
Maybe post a Link to those Neutrik Plugs. Not for myself, but I'd wager that there's other users here who may find those quite useful.
Albeit at 1.4 Euro? There goes my budget.
On Cables?
I couldn't resist. Enjoy!
FYI,
For the DAC XLR input https://www.neutrik.com/en/product/ndm
For the cable is NDF.
Actually is HK$ 4.5 per piece, 2 pieces plus $3 for local postage = HK$12, roughy equals to 1.4 Euro.
Has anybody tried a linear power supply with the ADI 2 DAC? I know the manual says that there is no benefit, but often linear power supplies appear to improve sound.
@ Meshplate
I use the ADI-2 with a linear power supply, some good USB cables and XLR interconnect cables.
Yes, the sound improves with all these measures, quite noticeable.
Here in the Forum you will get no acceptance for this fact, look at these posts above.
A power supply acts (or reacts) in both directions, to the unit and to your grid. Even one side could be rather immune, the effect of a SMPS to your other equipment could be very noticeable. I have tested it with a filter in front of the RME SMPS.
Same applies to an USB cable. It can have an effect on both Units, it connects the sender and receiver. Both may see reflections and depending on the implementation of the sending/receiving chips and the impedance of the USB cable (90ohms) one do get quite some noticeable differences with different USB cables.
And same story with Inter-Connects. In my system the balanced XLR sounded better than RCA ( of course with the same wire and same high quality plugs).
Maybe it is not the RME unit ( since this is perfectly designed and all these things do not effect the performance of the DAC, “sarcasm Mode off
Meshplate wrote:Has anybody tried a linear power supply with the ADI 2 DAC? I know the manual says that there is no benefit, but often linear power supplies appear to improve sound.
@ Meshplate
I use the ADI-2 with a linear power supply, some good USB cables and XLR interconnect cables.
Yes, the sound improves with all these measures, quite noticeable.Here in the Forum you will get no acceptance for this fact, look at these posts above.
A power supply acts (or reacts) in both directions, to the unit and to your grid. Even one side could be rather immune, the effect of a SMPS to your other equipment could be very noticeable. I have tested it with a filter in front of the RME SMPS.
Same applies to an USB cable. It can have an effect on both Units, it connects the sender and receiver. Both may see reflections and depending on the implementation of the sending/receiving chips and the impedance of the USB cable (90ohms) one do get quite some noticeable differences with different USB cables.
And same story with Inter-Connects. In my system the balanced XLR sounded better than RCA ( of course with the same wire and same high quality plugs).
Maybe it is not the RME unit ( since this is perfectly designed and all these things do not effect the performance of the DAC, “sarcasm Mode off
Can you please describe how you did the comparison?
> In my system the balanced XLR sounded better than RCA ( of course with the same wire and same high quality plugs).
Did you compare at the same volume level ? Balanced connection have usually a significant higher volume level or 6dB and more. As for our ears louder sounds better automatically any sound comparison that is not being performed at the same volume level is doomed to fail.
There is absolutely no reason why RCA based connections should sound worse compared to balanced connections, because the SNR with RCA is also on such a high level that you wont notice any degradation of audio signal.
For the ADI-2 DAC FS the SNR for the XRL (balanced) and RCA outputs is even equal (at the higher ref levels).
XLR
Output level switchable +19 dBu, +13 dBu, +7 dBu, +1 dBu @ 0 dBFS
Signal to Noise ratio (SNR) @ +7/+13/+19 dBu: 120 dB RMS unweighted, 123 dBA
THD @ 0 dBFS: < -120 dB, 0.0001 %
THD+N @ 0 dBFS: -116 dB, 0.00016 %
Channel separation: > 120 dB
Output impedance: 200 Ohm
RCA
As output XLR, but:
Output: 6.3 mm RCA jack, unbalanced
Output level 6 dB lower than XLR (-5 dBu to +13 dBu @ 0 dBFS)
Signal to Noise ratio (SNR) @ +13 dBu: 120 dB RMS unweighted, 123 dBA
Signal to Noise ratio (SNR) @ +1/+7 dBu: 116/119 dB RMS unweighted, 119/122 dBA
Signal to Noise ratio (SNR) @ -5 dBu: 112 dB RMS unweighted, 114 dBA
Output impedance: 100 Ohm
With lower ref levels the SNR with RCA plugs is not so high anymore, but I have severe doubts that you can hear a difference in SNR between 123 and 114 dBA...
You also need to perform these A/B comparisons within a second or so? Otherwise it's impossible to compare subtle audio differences. And you need to perform this as a blind test otherwise you only become to a victim of psychoacoustic effects. You can't change that ... our brain works this way and this has been researched already since a long time and this is known to audio engineers and people that are simply well informed (like usually people on this RME forum).
And if you claim that better USB cables would sound better, then this is a clear indication that you are (let me put it gently) overlooking some facts ...
If you use a product like ADI-2 Pro / DAC FS, you can easily perform a bittest. Better than lossless audio transfer is not possible. The best .. you can check that yourself in an "end-to-end test fashion" and will see that you reach that quality even with a regular USB cable of normal good quality, without any bells and whistles or being overpriced. Any transport errors you would also see as CRC error in the driver settings. RME drivers and devices make a lot of things visible to you.
> I use the ADI-2 with a linear power supply, some good USB cables and XLR interconnect cables.
> Yes, the sound improves with all these measures, quite noticeable.
I trust my ears in that regards. I compared the early and later RME products against an Accuphase DAC module DA-40.
The RME products had even a slightly better sound quality / stage.
The Accuphase DA--40 sounded a little bit like ADI-2 Pro in NOS mode. The differences were very small.
The setup:
UFX / UFX+ ---------- ADAT -------- ADI-2 Pro / DAC / Pro FS R BE ------------ Accuphase E-600 ---- B&W 803D3
+----------------- ADAT -------- Accuphase DA-40 module (in E-600) ---- Accuphase E-600 ---- B&W 803D3
With the remote of the E-600 I could easily switch between the two DAC connections in a fraction of a second.
The sound of the ADI-2 Pro was from the beginning / since day one (~5y ago) outstanding and even a "tad better" compared to valid accuphase DAC modules, with the advantage that you can change the D/A filter and have very useful add-on features. And this without any fancy expensive PSU, USB or preamp or speaker cabling.
If you are dissatisfied with getting valid information from audio specialists in this forum and prefer to be misinformed by psychoacoustic effects, then go to your favorite HiFi dealer or audio forum and discuss there. You will make many friends there and you will have a good time discussing overpriced and unneeded wiring and other equipment. But please leave those discussions out of this forum. With your level of information and expectations, you will not find answers here that are satisfactory to you and experience shows that this only leads to emotional / heated discussions beyond facts.
As a first step to better understanding, I would recommend you to run the bit test (with ADI-2 Pro or DAC) for audio with different USB cables. As long as the cables are not defective or the connectors are of poor quality, you should be able to transmit lossless audio to the DAC with both regular USB cables and the most expensive cables. Lossless is lossless. Higher audio quality before the actual D/A conversion is simply not possible and would also be completely illogical.
After this realization, you might even be a little more open to looking into psychoacoustics, dealing with it and making the transfer work, because the hi-fi industry cleverly exploits this to push products with very dubious additional benefits on buyers and make big profits.
You might also read this article and inform you about ADI-2 Pro / DAC. Follow the Youtube video references, as there you will find additional very interesting informations, for example a converter shootout from a mastering engineer and information about Steadyclock which you should defenitively not miss:
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/ind … ses-EN-DE/
Sorry gent, but as long as you do not understand this, any further discussion is superfluous.
For measurement purpose I use:
. an ACID Battery 18AH-12V to drive about 4h (ADI 2 pro gear gets less hot)
. INTONA USB isolation to avoid noise & spurious from the PC & LAN
. Star grounding to get ride of any hum
so hearing would be EMI / RF influenced by the surrounding & connected gears ... RF always a source and think question to consider 
Hi guys, Iam thinking to get Topping P50 as a power supply for my ADI.
Do you know if 1A / 15V is enought power?
Thank you
Hi guys, Iam thinking to get Topping P50 as a power supply for my ADI.
Do you know if 1A / 15V is enought power?
Thank you
No.
ADI-2 DAC: Max. power consumption: 18 Watts
ADI-2 Pro: Max. power consumption: 22 Watts
Watt = Volt x Ampere, for your own calculation.
Linear power supplies like a bit of “headroom” to deal with mains power changes and heat.
RME will sell a LPS with 40 Watts of power.
If you exceed the nominal Voltage of 12 V, overall power consumption goes up, going too far and ADI-2’s internal fusing circuit can blow.
Don’t take my word for it, but the upper limit is 17 V if I remember correctly.
Therefore I’d stay with nominal 12 V.
Stegi wrote:Hi guys, Iam thinking to get Topping P50 as a power supply for my ADI.
Do you know if 1A / 15V is enought power?
Thank you
No.
ADI-2 DAC: Max. power consumption: 18 Watts
ADI-2 Pro: Max. power consumption: 22 WattsWatt = Volt x Ampere, for your own calculation.
Linear power supplies like a bit of “headroom” to deal with mains power changes and heat.
RME will sell a LPS with 40 Watts of power.
If you exceed the nominal Voltage of 12 V, overall power consumption goes up, going too far and ADI-2’s internal fusing circuit can blow.
Don’t take my word for it, but the upper limit is 17 V if I remember correctly.
Therefore I’d stay with nominal 12 V.
Thank you
RME User Forum → ADI-2 & 2/4 Pro series, ADI-2 DAC series → Linear power supply
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