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RME User Forum → ADI-2 & 2/4 Pro series, ADI-2 DAC series → Sample Rate Setting Issues
I wish to be able to change ADI-2 Pro FS B setups (via remote usually) without changing the sample rate.
If this is not possible can I switch the basic mode via remote between ADDA and Analog In to Analog Out instead?
I can’t see a way of doing either or these things.
You mean ADDA to Preamp mode? That should be so using Setups...
Please give an example with the sample rate. Usually it makes a lot sense to include this value with a stored Setup.
Sorry Matthias yes ADDA mode to Preamp mode is what I mean.
So the ADI is the master clock in my studio. And I work at various sample rates depending on the project - mostly 48, 88.2 and 96. I am in transition where some projects are still 1x rates but my goal is to always start and finish projects at 2x rates.
In my studio ADI feeds control room monitors via analog volume knob and speaker switcher. For tracking and editing ADI is always in ADDA mode. For mixing I use 16 channel analog summing via various outboard gear and the final stereo stream gets recorded back to DAW via ADI in Preamp mode.
Yesterday I was revising a mix with rate 88.2Khz. ADI is in Preamp mode. I have a previous stereo mixdown from my first mix attempt and I wanted to AB previous mix to current revised multitrack mix. To do that I have to switch ADI between Preamp mode and ADDA mode because during mixdown I have no unprocessed audio path to send finished mix to reach control room speakers when in Preamp mode.
At the moment the ADI only has 2 setups to switch between Preamp and ADDA modes. I suppose I could create 6 or 8 setups to do the switching at my 4 most used sample rates and I have thought of that but I had reported previously that I have had difficulty getting the sample rate to save reliably with the setup. Even now when I switch to my ADDA setup sometimes the rate goes to 96Khz and sometimes 192Khz and I never work at 192.
It might be worth mentioning that the ADI sends/ receives digital audio in ADDA mode via light pipe in Adat mode but ADI is always master clock. In both ADDA and preamp modes ADI distributes clock via AES to Fireface UFX (Adat expansion only) and then via word clock to Madiface USB (main interface) and ADI 648. Auto sync in ADI is off.
Is there anything special I have to do to save the sample rate with the setup or is it simply set the rate and then save?
Kind regards
So the ADI is the master clock in my studio. And I work at various sample rates depending on the project - mostly 48, 88.2 and 96. I am in transition where some projects are still 1x rates but my goal is to always start and finish projects at 2x rates.
Just a little hint that could make you life easier:
I assume you are working for 44.1 (CD) and 48 (Video) kHz output rate?
Now, there is absolutely no quality advantage in straight integer multiples (2x, 4x, ...) when using a SRC / Sample Rate Converter.
The SRCs simply don’t care.
I’d suggest to use 96 kHz all over in the future, this avoids any complication, not only with ADI, but with project presets, internal file exchange etc.
According sample rate switching:
In my studio the DAW is steering the SR switching via ASIO, the RME HDSP Madi card is clock master, with the ADI-648 as clock synchronizer / distributer.
This way I can conveniently switch between different projects and never accidentally record in the wrong samplerate.
Thanx to “Steadyclock” the ADDA converters don’t need an “Atomic Clock” (I have one) for best quality.
KaiS thanks for the reply and suggestions.
I completely agree with you that all new projects are at 96Khz but I get projects from other people to mix and master where I don't get to decide the project sample rate. Film/ TV audio usually comes at 48. Other bedroom clients looking for a good mix/ master often come in at 44.1 and anything else I start here always at 96KHZ.
I use the ADI-2 Pro FS as master clock as it's the best most stable and everything sounds better when it is master. Believe me I know this complicates things as the ADI 648 still has to be switched manual between 1x and 2x rates.(96K Frame) I also have two Cranborne Audio 500Adat racks which sound great and they have to be switched manual for every sample rate round back of rack with torch. Urgh.
Anyway just looking to make a few less manual switches with every sample rate change I need. If I can get the ADI-2 Pro FS B to reliably store sample rate with each setup this will be a huge step in the right direction as I have moved it our of reach of my mix position now so remote control is important for that. Cranborne Audio have also promised that auto sample rate switching is coming soon via firmware update. If both those thing happen then ADI 648 will be only thing left to switch manual.
I'm on Mac over here and Logic Pro. Autosync on all my devices is always off as I have such a mix of gear. Logic protests a lot if sync is not perfect so it's pretty impossible for me to record at wrong rate:-)
Kind regards
How comes you need to switch SR on the Converters?
Do you use multiple clocks, that would be a major mistake?!
There must be ONE SINGLE master clock, everything else needs to be “External Clock”, “Clock Slave”, “Autosync” or whatever the manufacturer decided to name it.
Equipment without external clock option has no place in a pro studio IMO.
I have 2 ADI-2 DDs and do use their SRC from time to time, if a client brings in a synth or something without ext. clock option, but no on a regular base.
The concept of having a centralized, extreme high quality master clock makes no sense to me either.
This extreme high clock quality gets lost by clock distribution, and converters that need such a specialized clock to sound good are simply misconstructed.
Here everything follows the single clock master, but my converter‘s all do high quality internal clock stabilization, “Steadyclock” and such.
RME’s since long has recognized the need for proper clock handling and established the standard in this regard.
Maybe I'm not clear. I only have one master clock. It is the ADI-2 Pro FS. Because it is a stand alone converter the possibility of switching sample rates from the computer does not exist. Yes it has USB but on Mac the USB driver is poor (too much latency) compared to any other RME device BUT it does have a great clock.
All the gear I mention does have external clock sync - both adat or word clock BNC connectors (except ADI-2) but with the 500 racks I mention even when they are in external sync you need to tell them which sample rate you are using.
I don't use ADI-2 sample rate converter ever as I don't need to. Better not to use and just get everything in sync old school:-) My issue is only one of convenience or lack of. Nothing to do with my overall studio sync not working.
Well I'm not sure I agree with your comment that a centralised clock is not sensible or of benefit. I know RME and others go to lengths to have things sync with convenience - auto sync steady clock etc... - and maybe avoid the central master clock for less experienced users perhaps - but still better to go with what has always been described as best practise no?
Yes we love RME's gear but if their ideas on good clocking have been established for so long why do they keep releasing new gear claiming better clocks with lower jitter etc. Many other makers also tout the need for very low jitter clocking despite their gear having a steady clock equivalent.
Anyway KaiS thanks for your interest but I still have a clear software problem in the ADI-2 Pro FS B. 6 times just now I tried to change the sample rate stored with a setup and 6 times the stored sample rate did not change.
Am I the only user having this issue with this converter?
I use the ADI-2 Pro FS as master clock as it's the best most stable and everything sounds better when it is master. Believe me I know this complicates things as the ADI 648 still has to be switched manual between 1x and 2x rates.(96K Frame)
You can Slave ADI-2 Pro to the DAW, e.g. through AES, then use it’s clock as master for all the others.
SteadyClock FS perfectly refreshes the clock, this set up would be similar to ADI- Pro being the direct master, except the DAW can steer the clock.
Well I'm not sure I agree with your comment that a centralised clock is not sensible or of benefit. I know RME and others go to lengths to have things sync with convenience - auto sync steady clock etc... - and maybe avoid the central master clock for less experienced users perhaps - but still better to go with what has always been described as best practise no?
Centralized clock originates from video work, where it’s essential with all the different kinds of equipment involved.
Then it took over to the audio world where a lot of devices are the less than optimal in this regard, to say the least.
Some well known and “audio standard” companies come into my mind.
With RME (and other well designed) equipment, with a centralized atomic clock you simply gain - nothing.
I tried and it was just a another inconvenience without any advantage.
The atomic clock rests in the locker.
Anyway KaiS thanks for your interest but I still have a clear software problem in the ADI-2 Pro FS B. 6 times just now I tried to change the sample rate stored with a setup and 6 times the stored sample rate did not change.
You mean you set the unit to Internal clock and a specific sample rate, like 48 kHz, then store this Setup, change the clock to 96 kHz, store this Setup, then loading these Setups does not change the sample rate?
I can check this, but not before next week, sorry. I know that the SR is stored and should be set upon loading.
Hi Paul,
you mentioned that
- recalling a certain setup does not lead to the sample rate that you configured therein
- you have digital connections towards the ADI-2 Pro
Could it perhaps be, that the ADI-2 Pro gets clock signals on one of its digital inputs ?
What are your settings for clock in the ADI-2 Pro FS R BE (Options -> Clock -> Clock Source) ?
Can you please check this for the two profiles which you seem to use for preamp mode and adda mode ?
Could it be that you perhaps "accidently" kept it configured to smth like Auto, AES or SPDIF ?
If the ADI-2 Pro shall act as master clock then you need to ensure to set it to INT.
paulnajar wrote:Anyway KaiS thanks for your interest but I still have a clear software problem in the ADI-2 Pro FS B. 6 times just now I tried to change the sample rate stored with a setup and 6 times the stored sample rate did not change.
You mean you set the unit to Internal clock and a specific sample rate, like 48 kHz, then store this Setup, change the clock to 96 kHz, store this Setup, then loading these Setups does not change the sample rate?
I can check this, but not before next week, sorry. I know that the SR is stored and should be set upon loading.
I checked this, for me it works: ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, Firmware v102.
USB needs to be disconnected to change the clock rate.
I used two different user profiles / settings:
- setting 4: 44.1 kHz clock source internal
- setting 5: 96 kHz clock source internal
I used remap key function to recall Setup 4 and 5 when pressing key (2) I/O and key (3) EQ.
The UFX+ is connected through AES back and forth ..
In the MADIface driver settings windows of the UFX+ and in the State Overview of the ADI-2 Pro
I could verify that the sample rate changes successfully as expected.
MADIface driver version: 0.9735.
One side note not related to the issue, but while we are at it ..:
although Steadyclock recognized in the UFX+ driver settings 96 kHz (see input status in driver settings)
the UFX+ doesn't change its sample rate (see clock mode section of driver settings).
Is this expected behaviour? I thought with SPDIF and AES it would be possible to differentiate between single and double speed or did I remember this wrong ?
In stand-alone mode that works, but not with an OS active.
You can Slave ADI-2 Pro to the DAW, e.g. through AES, then use it’s clock as master for all the others.
SteadyClock FS perfectly refreshes the clock, this set up would be similar to ADI- Pro being the direct master, except the DAW can steer the clock.
Do you mean slave to my main interface - Madiface USB (not possible) or slave to ADI 648 which receives clock from Madiface USB? (possible)
Then you mean enable Steady Clock on ADI-2 Pro and pass that clock to all other devices?
With RME (and other well designed) equipment, with a centralized atomic clock you simply gain - nothing.
I tried and it was just a another inconvenience without any advantage.
The atomic clock rests in the locker.
Iterensting thoughts KaiS. I had not considered that Steady Clock could do as perfect a job as just straight out using the main "FS" clock. I'll have to do some more exploring when I have more time.
Kind regards
KaiS wrote:You can Slave ADI-2 Pro to the DAW, e.g. through AES, then use it’s clock as master for all the others.
SteadyClock FS perfectly refreshes the clock, this set up would be similar to ADI- Pro being the direct master, except the DAW can steer the clock.Do you mean slave to my main interface - Madiface USB (not possible) or slave to ADI 648 which receives clock from Madiface USB? (possible)
Then you mean enable Steady Clock on ADI-2 Pro and pass that clock to all other devices?
KaiS wrote:With RME (and other well designed) equipment, with a centralized atomic clock you simply gain - nothing.
I tried and it was just a another inconvenience without any advantage.
The atomic clock rests in the locker.Iterensting thoughts KaiS. I had not considered that Steady Clock could do as perfect a job as just straight out using the main "FS" clock. I'll have to do some more exploring when I have more time.
Kind regards
The main idea is to make the DAW control the samplerate switching.
Then hand this clock to ADI-2 Pro FS, where it’s most advanced version of Steadyclock FS de-jitters it and works as the central clock source, as you already have arranged it.
Or you rely on MADIface USB’s and ADI-648’s already daisy-chained Steadyclocks, delivering a de-jittered clock to your converters.
Finnaly it boils down to the fact that ADI-2 Pro gives the same quality, no matter if it’s clock master or slave.
BTW: Steadyclock is always on, doesn’t need to be enabled.
You mean you set the unit to Internal clock and a specific sample rate, like 48 kHz, then store this Setup, change the clock to 96 kHz, store this Setup, then loading these Setups does not change the sample rate?
I can check this, but not before next week, sorry. I know that the SR is stored and should be set upon loading.
Yes this is what I mean. I've just had more of a play with it this morning and I have managed to make progress on this.
It's was just one setup that I use the most for ADDA mode at 96KHZ. This one setup would always reset sample rate to 192 when it got loaded no matter how many times I tried to change SR to 96 and then save. So I had an idea that by starting with another Setup and editing to what I need and save that then it now worked. Is it possible this one setup was somehow corrupt? Anyway I have managed to work around it and have now saved and now have 6 Setups for preamp and ADDA modes at my 3 most used sample rates.
I got a bit confused by the fact that there are almost no global settings. Everything is saved in the current setup including the Remote Remap Keys. I got tricked here when assigning as they kept snapping back to previous settings as I have not saved assignments for current Setup:-)
Hi Paul,
you mentioned that
- recalling a certain setup does not lead to the sample rate that you configured therein
- you have digital connections towards the ADI-2 ProCould it perhaps be, that the ADI-2 Pro gets clock signals on one of its digital inputs ?
What are your settings for clock in the ADI-2 Pro FS R BE (Options -> Clock -> Clock Source) ?
Can you please check this for the two profiles which you seem to use for preamp mode and adda mode ?Could it be that you perhaps "accidently" kept it configured to smth like Auto, AES or SPDIF ?
If the ADI-2 Pro shall act as master clock then you need to ensure to set it to INT.
Thanks Ramses and good though but no. All Setups were saved with Internal clock setting. It can be confusing though because as I mentioned in previous post almost all setting are per setup and nothing global.
RME User Forum → ADI-2 & 2/4 Pro series, ADI-2 DAC series → Sample Rate Setting Issues
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