1 (edited by diana 2022-06-15 01:41:32)

Topic: click changing tracks with adi-2 dac fs

sometimes when i change tracks or mute my volume (on tidal or youtube for example) i get a clicking sound, this doesn't happen all the time, i have seen an old firmware update that claimed to fix clicking but i am on a newer version so i don't think that would do anything or be a good idea to do.
i should also note that my adi-2 has the ess chip

after reading about dsd in the user's guide, i see something about an audible click when changing from pcm and dsd, i don't think tidal supports both pcm and dsd so not sure this is the issue (i could definitely be wrong though), would it be possible to implement a feature into the dac to possibly get rid of this or is that just not possible?

2

Re: click changing tracks with adi-2 dac fs

i know some other dacs have the clicking come from the dac itself instead of the headphones/speakers, i'm not sure if that's possible to implement from a firmware update though

3 (edited by KaiS 2022-06-16 10:54:43)

Re: click changing tracks with adi-2 dac fs

No DSD on Tidal.
And no clicks here between tracks, ADI-2 Pro, latest firmware V.113.
Tidal from iDevice.

4

Re: click changing tracks with adi-2 dac fs

KaiS wrote:

No DSD on Tidal.
And no clicks here between tracks, ADI-2 Pro, latest firmware.
Tidal from iDevice.

adi-2 pro doesn't have the ess chip right? i think that makes a difference. if not, i would like to know of some settings that might be able to get rid of this

5 (edited by mavck 2022-06-16 02:13:28)

Re: click changing tracks with adi-2 dac fs

Only clicks I have with the Pro is On/Off, and when inserting headphones.
I am using the latest firmware.

And yes, ESS is only in the newer DAC units. Older DACs and all Pros are AKM only.

6 (edited by diana 2022-06-16 02:46:56)

Re: click changing tracks with adi-2 dac fs

mavck wrote:

Only clicks I have with the Pro is On/Off, and when inserting headphones.
I am using the latest firmware.

And yes, ESS is only in the newer DAC units. Older DACs and all Pros are AKM only.

i think this only happens with the ess chips, i'm hoping there's a way around it, i imagine there has to be something. hopefully someone working at rme can comment on this

7

Re: click changing tracks with adi-2 dac fs

There are no known 'click' issues. You need to find out what exactly that click is, or in what exact situation it occurs. Your description is not clear enough.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

8 (edited by diana 2022-06-16 06:57:05)

Re: click changing tracks with adi-2 dac fs

MC wrote:

There are no known 'click' issues. You need to find out what exactly that click is, or in what exact situation it occurs. Your description is not clear enough.

i think i should describe it more as a 'pop' sound, it doesn't happen all the time, but sometimes when i pause a song or mute/unmute, the popping sound happens. is there anything in particular i could be more descriptive about? i'm not too sure how else to describe it, sorry

9

Re: click changing tracks with adi-2 dac fs

The ADI does not know if a song is paused or not. If that makes a pop then I expect this to be caused by the player software or app. You mentioned sample rate changes before - these are shown directly in the screen, lower right, so you can easily check if that happens in that moment (pause).

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

10 (edited by diana 2022-06-16 15:20:57)

Re: click changing tracks with adi-2 dac fs

MC wrote:

The ADI does not know if a song is paused or not. If that makes a pop then I expect this to be caused by the player software or app. You mentioned sample rate changes before - these are shown directly in the screen, lower right, so you can easily check if that happens in that moment (pause).

i tried it on my browser instead of the tidal app and it still happens, still very rarely though.

on page 34 of the user's guide it says "the change between pcm and dsd causes a low volume click noise." could this have anything to do with it, even though it's not exactly described as a pop? i know i'm not changing from pcm to dsd but it's just a thought.
i should also say, in case i didn't make it clear, this is coming from my headphones, not the adi-2 and the sample rate isn't changing on the bottom right, so it doesn't seem to be that either.

11 (edited by diana 2022-06-16 20:00:39)

Re: click changing tracks with adi-2 dac fs

@MC would it be possible for u to test if this happens for u using a ADI-2 DAC FS with the updated ESS chip? to replicate this, i think if u switched between songs a few times and muted/unmuted the volume it would happen (assuming it's not just a problem i'm having)

okay, this is weird, if i record my desktop i'm able to hear the popping noise too.

12

Re: click changing tracks with adi-2 dac fs

i have found out that this isn't an issue with the rme adi-2 but i am still confused on why i get a pop occasionally when i instantly put a stop to audio (muting, closing a tab, pausing), could anyone help?

Re: click changing tracks with adi-2 dac fs

diana wrote:

i have found out that this isn't an issue with the rme adi-2 but i am still confused on why i get a pop occasionally when i instantly put a stop to audio (muting, closing a tab, pausing), could anyone help?

You need to clearly describe such a scenario where this happens, sorry but your descrition is too vague.

For example you say simply
"mute" .. but mute in which application ? Which drivers are involved (Windows, ASIO .. ?)
"Closing" .. but which tab in which application ?
"pausing" ... what means pausing, which application, which button what is the surrounding condition, which audio/song, audio file type, do you play using what player, what driver is involved, etc

While you are on the way finding / describing clear steps to trigger the problem maybe more things becomes clear to you when it happens, when it doesn't happen.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

14

Re: click changing tracks with adi-2 dac fs

ramses wrote:
diana wrote:

i have found out that this isn't an issue with the rme adi-2 but i am still confused on why i get a pop occasionally when i instantly put a stop to audio (muting, closing a tab, pausing), could anyone help?

You need to clearly describe such a scenario where this happens, sorry but your descrition is too vague.

For example you say simply
"mute" .. but mute in which application ? Which drivers are involved (Windows, ASIO .. ?)
"Closing" .. but which tab in which application ?
"pausing" ... what means pausing, which application, which button what is the surrounding condition, which audio/song, audio file type, do you play using what player, what driver is involved, etc

While you are on the way finding / describing clear steps to trigger the problem maybe more things becomes clear to you when it happens, when it doesn't happen.

okay, sorry about that.

right now i am talking about youtube, but keep in mind it isn't exclusive to youtube.
when i mute using the volume control on youtube, this can happen.
when i'm closing a tab on firefox for youtube, this can happen.
when i'm pausing on youtube by just clicking on the screen it can also happen.

the drivers i am using are the default windows drivers, however when i use ASIO through qobuz, it goes away, however i don't always use windows so using ASIO drivers for everything isn't exactly an option, if anymore info is needed just tell me

15 (edited by KaiS 2022-06-19 12:10:16)

Re: click changing tracks with adi-2 dac fs

How loud is the click / pop noise you’re experiencing, louder or lower than the music?

Does it happen:

1. As part of the music signal, like the noise you get at the begginning when hard-cutting instead of fading in the music after an intermediate stop?

2. Or is it “Click” - “Pause” - “Music”, with the pause ever so short but noticeable ?


What kind of music, pop, rock, classical, or all kinds?

16 (edited by diana 2022-06-19 12:08:15)

Re: click changing tracks with adi-2 dac fs

KaiS wrote:

How loud is the click / pop noise you’re experiencing, louder or lower than the music?

Does it happen:

1. As part of the music signal, like the noise you get at the begginning when hard-cutting instead of fading in the music after an intermediate stop?

2. Or is it “Click” - “Pause” - “Music”, with the pause ever so short but noticeable ?


What kind of music, pop, rock, classical, or all kinds?

i think the noise comes from what is described in number 1. stopping a track instantly and hearing a "pop", this is usually quiet but sometimes, rarely, loud.
it happens on all music and videos, but it isn't something that happens consistently, it's completely random, however it only happens when i stop the track, it doesn't happen if the track ends from what i know or if it does, it's very rare.
ASIO drivers stop it from happening but as i said, i can't use these on linux and they aren't compatible with everything on windows

i have a video clip of the sound if that would help, just let me know.

17 (edited by KaiS 2022-06-19 12:30:25)

Re: click changing tracks with adi-2 dac fs

diana wrote:
KaiS wrote:

...1. As part of the music signal, like the noise you get at the begginning when hard-cutting instead of fading in the music after an intermediate stop

i think the noise comes from what is described in number 1. stopping a track instantly and hearing a "pop", this is usually quiet but sometimes, rarely, loud...

Now it’s clear:

This switch-noise, a single click or pop, is completely normal when the player software hard-mutes and un-mutes the signal without a little fade, and is not related to ADI-2 at all.


It’s random, because, depending of the waveform at the very moment the un-mute happens, it might be stronger - zero to very loud within no time - or inaudible - zero to a low part of a waveform.

Specially audible when un-muting in the middle of a strong bass-note, as the click contains higher frequencies that are not covered by the music then.


There’s nothing you or RME can do about it, it’s a lack of the used player software.

18

Re: click changing tracks with adi-2 dac fs

KaiS wrote:
diana wrote:
KaiS wrote:

...1. As part of the music signal, like the noise you get at the begginning when hard-cutting instead of fading in the music after an intermediate stop

i think the noise comes from what is described in number 1. stopping a track instantly and hearing a "pop", this is usually quiet but sometimes, rarely, loud...

Now it’s clear:

This switch-noise, a single click or pop, is completely normal when the player software hard-mutes and un-mutes the signal without a little fade, and is not related to ADI-2 at all.


It’s random, because, depending of the waveform at the very moment the un-mute happens, it might be stronger - zero to very loud within no time - or inaudible - zero to a low part of a waveform.

Specially audible when un-muting in the middle of a strong bass-note, as the click contains higher frequencies that are not covered by the music then.


There’s nothing you or RME can do about it, it’s a lack of the used player software.

thank you for clearing this up, would u mind listening to a clip of the sound just so i know for sure that we're on the same page and i can stop putting energy into trying to stop this? https://streamable.com/zpq3pn (listen for when i pause)

19 (edited by KaiS 2022-06-19 14:06:39)

Re: click changing tracks with adi-2 dac fs

diana wrote:

... would u mind listening to a clip of the sound just so i know for sure that we're on the same page and i can stop putting energy into trying to stop this? https://streamable.com/zpq3pn (listen for when i pause)

This is exactly the switch-noise I described.

Tidal from iDevice does the exact same thing here, no matter what DA-Converter I use.


So don’t worry about it, I wouldn’t even call it a fault of the player software, just a lack of the little extra feature.

E.g. in Studio recording software too, we don’t have this automatic fade in/out, because it would unintentionally miss a little part of the music.

20 (edited by diana 2022-06-19 14:14:57)

Re: click changing tracks with adi-2 dac fs

KaiS wrote:
diana wrote:

... would u mind listening to a clip of the sound just so i know for sure that we're on the same page and i can stop putting energy into trying to stop this? https://streamable.com/zpq3pn (listen for when i pause)

This is exactly the switch-noise I described.

Tidal from iDevice does the exact same thing here, no matter what DA-Converter I use.


So don’t worry about it, I wouldn’t even call it a fault of the player software, just a lack of the little extra feature.

E.g. in Studio recording software too, we don’t have this automatic fade in/out, because it would unintentionally miss a little part of the music.

does it happen on a web browser for u too? it happens for me on youtube as i said and other sites.
btw, i'm using firefox and i should also mention it's usually a lot more rare and quieter on browser.

21 (edited by KaiS 2022-06-19 14:47:54)

Re: click changing tracks with adi-2 dac fs

I have my ADI-2 connected to an iDevice, and it doesn’t happens with Youtube through Safari, as there is an audible little fade out/in when mute/un-mute.

On a 2nd try with Tidal App, with different music: there is an audible fade in/out too that supresses the click, at least partly.
With Bach’s organ music there is a little click, with Al DiMeola’s Egyptian Danza not.
Don’t ask me why smile

EDIT: with higher sample-rate on Tidal the fades are faster, so more click.
Same track, Al Di Meola Egyptian Danza from “Essence Of ...” - 44.1: no click, from “Casino”, Master 88,2 kHz: light click.


I don’t use the YouTube app, and can’t test with computer connection, as I use an iDevice for music listening.


As mentioned, from you audio example: what you hear is kind of normal, and nothing can be done about it.
And it’s all not directly related to ADI-2.

22

Re: click changing tracks with adi-2 dac fs

KaiS wrote:

I have my ADI-2 connected to an iDevice, and it doesn’t happens with Youtube through Safari, as there is an audible little fade out/in when mute/un-mute.

On a 2nd try with Tidal App, with different music: there is an audible fade in/out too that supresses the click, at least partly.
With Bach’s organ music there is a little click, with Al DiMeola’s Egyptian Danza not.
Don’t ask me why smile

EDIT: with higher sample-rate on Tidal the fades are faster, so more click.
Same track, Al Di Meola Egyptian Danza from “Essence Of ...” - 44.1: no click, from “Casino”, Master 88,2 kHz: light click.


I don’t use the YouTube app, and can’t test with computer connection, as I use an iDevice for music listening.


As mentioned, from you audio example: what you hear is kind of normal, and nothing can be done about it.

that's fine, thank you for taking time to test at all, definitely cleared me of some time of worrying.
https://streamable.com/g56bya here it is on youtube, i'm guessing, again, u will say it's normal

23 (edited by KaiS 2022-06-19 15:06:14)

Re: click changing tracks with adi-2 dac fs

diana wrote:

https://streamable.com/g56bya here it is on youtube, i'm guessing, again, u will say it's normal

Yes it is.

This is how a hard cut into audio sounds.

Might be more annoying when you listen quite loud, but I don’t.
My listening level is comparable to the level of a normal human conversation, maybe slightly above.

24

Re: click changing tracks with adi-2 dac fs

KaiS wrote:
diana wrote:

https://streamable.com/g56bya here it is on youtube, i'm guessing, again, u will say it's normal

Yes it is.

This is how a hard cut into audio sounds.

Might be more annoying when you listen quite loud, but I don’t.
My listening level is comparable to the level of a normal human conversation, maybe slightly above.

just curious what u meant when u said "kind of normal"?

25 (edited by KaiS 2022-06-19 15:52:37)

Re: click changing tracks with adi-2 dac fs

diana wrote:

just curious what u meant when u said "kind of normal"?

“Kind of...” because alternatives and technical solutions exist, on the side of the player’s softwares.

To say it clear: ADI-2 just faithfully reproduces the audio stream that is feed into it.

26 (edited by diana 2022-06-19 16:05:16)

Re: click changing tracks with adi-2 dac fs

KaiS wrote:
diana wrote:

just curious what u meant when u said "kind of normal"?

“Kind of...” because alternatives and technical solutions exist, on the side of the player’s softwares.

To say it clear: ADI-2 just faithfully reproduces the audio stream that is feed into it.

okay, thank you again for clearing this up, as i said, this was making me worry far too much big_smile and yea i know, i was more worried something else was wrong at this point, not something with the adi-2