Re: Any news on RME DPS-2

Is the adi connected to anything else besides the amp and psu? If it is connected with spdif or usb etc, disconnect those for the sake of research. If the hum disappears the hum is coming from one of these. The adi simply passes it , the hum, on.

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
Babyface pro fs, HDSP9652+ADI-8AE, HDSP9632

Re: Any news on RME DPS-2

vinark wrote:

Is the adi connected to anything else besides the amp and psu? If it is connected with spdif or usb etc, disconnect those for the sake of research. If the hum disappears the hum is coming from one of these. The adi simply passes it , the hum, on.

It looks like he may be  using an active  power conditioner, not a passive power distributor strip,  for all his equipment.

WY

CD Transport>optical>RME ADI-2 DAC FS(AKM)>XLR balanced >GLM software>Genelec Monitors 8340A

53 (edited by KaiS 2024-02-02 23:36:15)

Re: Any news on RME DPS-2

yuhasz01 wrote:
vinark wrote:

Is the adi connected to anything else besides the amp and psu? If it is connected with spdif or usb etc, disconnect those for the sake of research. If the hum disappears the hum is coming from one of these. The adi simply passes it , the hum, on.

It looks like he may be  using an active  power conditioner, not a passive power distributor strip,  for all his equipment.

This doesn’t make a difference.

A power conditioner doesn’t eliminate ground loops.

54 (edited by jmimac351 2024-02-03 02:15:36)

Re: Any news on RME DPS-2

I've tracked down the hum issue. I have dual subs and was using XLR into them (didn't have long enough RCAs), with RCAs into the amp. It sounded soft to me, so I unplugged the RCAs from the amp, and ran short XLR from RME to amp... not using the subs; however... the RCAs were still plugged into the RME. When I touched the pin for the RCAs, the hum got worse. When I unplugged the "unused" RCAs from the RME, the hum went away... almost entirely. There is still a very little amount of hum, but nothing like before. Also, with just the XLR plugged into the Ayre VX-5 Twenty, and touching the shell of the XLR, I could induce a bit of hum. By design, the XLR inputs for the Ayre VX-5 Twenty do not have the metal locking clip on the female connector on the amp... because it's steel and can become magnetic. They thought that was an important detail. Making sure the XLRs were well seated into the connectors on the Ayre amp, and touching them a bit more seemed to resolve the issue more such that I am now satisfied.

So, it's possible for the 2 different output connections to induce noise into one another.  I wonder if caps of some sort for the RCA outputs, if they are unused, would be a good idea.

The XLRs I'm using are Mogami 2549 wire with Neutrix connectors. The 2549 wire is 2 conductor wire, with a shield. Mogami makes a 2534 wire that is a quad conductor wire that is supposed to be even more resistant to noise. I am going to try to get my Mogami 2549 wire as "happy" as possible and check anything it is running close to. I think I've already gotten it to that point, but will continue to fiddle with it.

For those interested, below is the description for the Mogami 2534 wire, said to be more noise resistant. Supposedly the advantage of the 2549 wire over the 2534 is lower capacitance and more extended highs with the 2549.

Bottom Line: It appears the RME ADI 2 DAC FS is just very sensitive to sources of noise, but it can be dealt with. Be very particular about how wiring is routed, etc.  I may even try some longer XLR cables to get the ADI-2 further away from the amp / other equipment... anything with a transformer... isolate the ADI-2 away from other equipment.  It's sitting right next to my Ayre VX-5 Twenty now.  I may also try laying a sheet of carbon fiber fabric on top of the unit.  I also have a few small pieces of "ERS Paper"... I'll throw everything at it.

Mogami 2534
Mogami Neglex quad cable is perfect cable for home studios suffering from wiring and grounding problems. Mogami 2534 should also be used where intense RFI interference is a problem. Mogami 2534 provides an improvement in signal to noise of 10-20db over equivalent twisted pair cables. Double conductors quad cables are more effective in canceling noise that can get past even the best of shields and is critical in an environment of high RF and EM interference. Conductor insulation is XLPE ( Cross-Linked Polyethylene) which has excellent electrical characteristics and prevents shrink-back during soldering. Served (spiral) Bare Copper Shield is superior to foil or braided shields for sound quality and simplifies termination.

55 (edited by jmimac351 2024-02-03 02:13:22)

Re: Any news on RME DPS-2

vinark wrote:

Is the adi connected to anything else besides the amp and psu? If it is connected with spdif or usb etc, disconnect those for the sake of research. If the hum disappears the hum is coming from one of these. The adi simply passes it , the hum, on.

For what it's worth, I had the ADI-2 DAC FS with USB cable inserted... but unused when I unplugged it from my MacBook.  I was using it for the RME Remote app.  SPDIF was plugged in from Bluesound Node.  I tried unplugging / plugging in each of those and it did not resolve the hum (as the eventual resolution is noted above).

Re: Any news on RME DPS-2

@jmimac351

Are you referring to ADI-2 switched off?

With ADI-2 “on”, and all audio cabled fully balanced, hum should be a complete non-issue.

57 (edited by jmimac351 2024-02-03 07:29:58)

Re: Any news on RME DPS-2

KaiS wrote:

@jmimac351

Are you referring to ADI-2 switched off?

With ADI-2 “on”, and all audio cabled fully balanced, hum should be a complete non-issue.

Correct, I was experiencing hum thru speakers when the ADI-2 was switched "OFF", ADI-2 XLR output plugged into my Ayre VX-5 Twenty amp, and RCA cables plugged into ADI-2, but at the same time... the RCA cables coming out of the ADI-2 were not plugged into another piece of equipment (I was playing with / switching outputs around).  It never occurred to me that leaving the RCAs plugged into the ADI-2 and the ADI-2 "OFF" would result in notable hum thru the speakers.  In every case, when the ADI-2 was "ON", there was no hum. 

I have never experienced this sort of thing and that's why I'm sharing it.  I don't know if this experience points to anything about the design of the ADI-2 DAC / how the XLR and RCA inputs interact with one another... but it was very odd.

I'm really enjoying the ADI-2 DAC FS unit and do not mean to imply I am not.  In fact, another reason why I'm sharing this is because I DO like the device... and I want it to be the best it can be... maybe even with a quirk or 2. smile

58 (edited by KaiS 2024-02-03 14:00:42)

Re: Any news on RME DPS-2

So it’s clear we’re analyzing a useless configuration:
Power amp switched on, but no active source connected, no music playing.


I point this out for a others reading along, to not get a wrong view on the topic.


The explanation for what happens is already there:

• ADI-2 DAC’s XLR output in state “off” is no longer balanced (*1), instead can be regarded as single ended, as one leg is connected to ground but not the other.

• As a result, induced stray electric fields are no longer compensated by the balanced interconnection to the power amp, as it would be when ADI-2 DAC is switched on.

• In this state, every change of interconnects, e.g. plugging an additional RCA cable, changes the amount of stray currents picked up from the surrounding.
To further analyze this is pointless.


• The described symptoms point to, your system not having a connection to safety ground anywhere.
Culprit might be an ungrounded power conditioner, or no device having a 3-prong mains plug.
Here lies the solution:
connect the power amp (preferably), or ADI-2 DAC to safety ground.


Obtaining the ADI-2/4 Pro SE’s 3-prong PSU with soft ground could be a remedy.

Or, an adapter like this one can be used for a safety ground connection:
https://m.media-amazon.com/images/W/MEDIAX_849526-T3/images/I/51gwi0olBzL._AC_SX679_.jpg


(*1) Remark:
Standby or powered down - the XLR out’s hot (2) and cold (3) pins - on ADI-2 Pro are both quasi open loop, on ADI-2/4 pro SE both show identical 106 Ohms impedance.
So with the Pro’s the mentioned phenomenon shouldn’t appear, as both stay balanced, even when powered down.

59 (edited by jmimac351 2024-02-03 17:46:18)

Re: Any news on RME DPS-2

KaiS wrote:

So it’s clear we’re analyzing a useless configuration:
Power amp switched on, but no active source connected, no music playing.

I appreciate your help and feedback. 

Just so it's clear to others reading this topic, my issue exists when the RME ADI 2 DAC FS is in the system.  My hum issue does NOT exist when my Ayre KX-5 Twenty preamp is in the system, and in the exact same configuration. 

The common denominator here is which preamp is in the system. 

Use Case:
How is this a "useless configuration" if I want to keep my Ayre VX-5 Twenty amp on all the time, at operating temp / limit current swings and heat cycling of its internals AND use a battery pack with the RME ADI-2 DAC FS?  If I'm using a battery pack with the RME, it certainly cannot be "active all the time", correct?  Why should I have to turn off my other equipment to avoid the HUM that is evidently being injected into the system via the RME? My other preamp does not inject this hum, when in the exact same configuration. As I am looking into a 3S2P battery pack that Matthias has mentioned elsewhere, this is relevant - and perhaps a nice solution "for me and MY configuration".  My configuration, if reasonable, is the only configuration that matters.

Of course, this begs the question... why do I need to lookup using a battery pack with the RME ADI 2 DC FS when my Ayre KX-5 Twenty is DEAD QUIET, always?

Why does the RME ADI-2 DAC FS generate this hum, whereas my Ayre Acoustics KX-5 Twenty preamp, if "OFF" and plugged in via XLR, does not? The configuration is exactly the same.

Obviously, this product is aimed at a little different niche / customer, correct?  It would be unwise for any manufacturer to dismiss a customer's needs as "pointless"... the User Experience matters.  Perhaps this sort of dismissal is why the RME Remote app can only be (inconveniently) used via USB, rather than incorporating a bluetooth interface for it (as it should be setup - like SVS Sound does with their subwoofer app, which I use and is so outstanding that it makes me not want to consider any other Subwoofers), and getting in the way of my experience with the unit?  But, I digress...

I'll also point out... when some issues are brought up, it seems a common reply is "That is useless to even discuss..." and to be critical of the scenario rather than the issue / result at hand.  I would politely suggest a better way to support the User Experience (Customer) is to design equipment is such a way that it avoids issues, whether they are uncommon, or not. If the equipment doesn't address the issue, dismissing it as a "useless configuration" is perhaps not the best thing to do. Perhaps the thing to do is address the issue for when Customers do "pointless things"? I have other equipment that can account for my "useless configuration", why can't the RME ADI 2 DAC FS?

I would politely suggest these things ARE useful to discuss, most especially if it highlights an issue the RME ADI 2 DAC FS cannot cope with - whether because of its basic design or any other reason.  At a minimum, other users can perhaps learn from it in case they happen to encounter it. 

Notwithstanding any of this, I think it is notable another piece of equipment put in the same same spot / configuration CAN cope with this scenario and NOT send HUM thru my speakers, whereas the RME ADI-2 DAC FS cannot. As I have already said, I like the ADI-2 DAC FS, and it isn't going anywhere.  I certainly appreciate the knowledge base available here and I think the more we talk about / understand these issues, the better.

The explanation for "why" this happens with the RME ADI-2 DAC FS may be apparent to some, the configuration may be "uncommon"... but it's not "pointless". The better User Experience would be that it doesn't happen at all because the piece of equipment is designed to overcome the uncommon - even if some think it useless.

Thank you for your feedback.  It is much appreciated.

60 (edited by KaiS 2024-02-03 19:53:45)

Re: Any news on RME DPS-2

Maybe I need to make that clear, I am a private person, in no way linked to RME.
So what I write is my private opinion, nothing more, and I do this in my private time.


I’ve tried to show up valid and inexpensive solutions in my former posting, maybe you’ll try them out before going further.


I even had a look in the Ayre VX-5 documentation, but couldn’t find any hint why it’s safety grounding doesn’t solve the issue as it should.

Maybe you let a professional electrician have a look into this, I suspect there might be something broken or miss-configured regarding the, for security reasons, very important safety ground.
Or did you do anything to bypass or isolate the Ayre VX-5’s safety ground?
Or maybe you do use non-standard XLR cables, with the screens disconnected at one side?


Regarding ADI-2 DAC:

What happens partly results from ADI-2 DAC’s internal hardware and cannot be changed at this point afterwards, e.g. by firmware updates.
A different power supply (as mentioned) CAN make a difference.

61 (edited by unpluggged 2024-02-03 22:51:24)

Re: Any news on RME DPS-2

jmimac351 wrote:

Why does the RME ADI-2 DAC FS generate this hum

It does not. Please direct your rants somewhere else.

jmimac351 wrote:

Perhaps this sort of dismissal is why the RME Remote app can only be (inconveniently) used via USB

A few months ago there was no remote app, and now that there is one, as a bonus that proves how RME is committed to their customers, you twist it and blame RME for "dismissing" their customers ? Are you a troll or what? Too bad this forum has no blocking feature. I have had enough of your ridiculous whining. Get a life.

62 (edited by Kubrak 2024-02-03 22:55:18)

Re: Any news on RME DPS-2

@jmimac
There is good practice that audio devices are switched on in sequence from the source to the amplifier and switched off in reverse order...
So, configuration D/A off and amplifier on goes against this "golden rule"...

Doing other way is possible, but if things go wrong way one risks damage of gear and in the worst case damage of hearing....

So in your use case the best practice is to keep RME always on if you have amplifier always on....

63 (edited by jmimac351 2024-02-17 15:47:35)

Re: Any news on RME DPS-2

unpluggged wrote:
jmimac351 wrote:

Why does the RME ADI-2 DAC FS generate this hum

It does not. Please direct your rants somewhere else.

jmimac351 wrote:

Perhaps this sort of dismissal is why the RME Remote app can only be (inconveniently) used via USB

A few months ago there was no remote app, and now that there is one, as a bonus that proves how RME is committed to their customers, you twist it and blame RME for "dismissing" their customers ? Are you a troll or what? Too bad this forum has no blocking feature. I have had enough of your ridiculous whining. Get a life.

Hi, your feedback is very helpful... but not quite as helpful as user @KaiS.  KaiS is awesome.  He emailed me and helped me figure out a solution (which may or may not be relevant to others).

I acknowledge that my words can be very direct... as are @MC.  It's obvious @MC and others at RME take the product very seriously and pay attention to details.  If what I experienced helps provide real-world input, they will make use of it, or not. 

Now, I'm in the market for an RME ADI-2 Pro FS R Black Edition unit... for Digital Output... so I can plug it into other DACs and utilize the DSP (and keep having fun). I'm doing my homework on that to try and make certain I understand exactly what it outputs via digital, and I'm coming across advice to "just buy the ADI-2 Pro FS R BE to begin with and be done with it"... probably good advice. 

Have a great day!  I am glad we're now friends.

Re: Any news on RME DPS-2

Kubrak wrote:

@jmimac
There is good practice that audio devices are switched on in sequence from the source to the amplifier and switched off in reverse order...
So, configuration D/A off and amplifier on goes against this "golden rule"...

Doing other way is possible, but if things go wrong way one risks damage of gear and in the worst case damage of hearing....

So in your use case the best practice is to keep RME always on if you have amplifier always on....

Thanks for your feedback... again... other gear does not have this issue... but I have resolved it.  Yes, normally I would leave all gear ON.  As for damaging hearing?... I don't listen via headphones...

https://photos.smugmug.com/Other/Miscellaneous-Audio/i-bcP66Dt/0/FJQ25pbkV35H52HXPdJXZzDMqrsQFQLBs7jTKkv3/M/Resized_Resized_20240126_193705-M.jpg

65 (edited by KaiS 2024-02-17 17:53:47)

Re: Any news on RME DPS-2

jmimac351 wrote:

Now, I'm in the market for an RME ADI-2 Pro FS R Black Edition unit... for Digital Output... so I can plug it into other DACs and utilize the DSP (and keep having fun)…

You might even consider RME ADI-2/4 Pro SE.

Even if you currently don’t need it’s extras like vinyl turntable direct connection (RIAA preamp) and separate line out option for channel 3/4, it might pay out in the future.

66 (edited by jmimac351 2024-02-18 13:59:40)

Re: Any news on RME DPS-2

KaiS wrote:
jmimac351 wrote:

Now, I'm in the market for an RME ADI-2 Pro FS R Black Edition unit... for Digital Output... so I can plug it into other DACs and utilize the DSP (and keep having fun)…

You might even consider RME ADI-2/4 Pro SE.

Even if you currently don’t need it’s extras like vinyl turntable direct connection (RIAA preamp) and separate line out option for channel 3/4, it might pay out in the future.

I just sold my Michell Gyro SE table, but will keep that in mind.  If there is some benefit the ADI-2/4 would have for 2 channel audio with dual subwoofers, then I guess I should be looking at that.  I guess the difference (if any) of what is being output from Lines 1/2 vs Lines 3/4 would be of interest.  I'll check it out and try to figure out what the functional differentiators are for my setup. If "Lines 1/2 vs Lines 3/4" means I can apply PEQ to the subs separately from the PEQ applied to the main speakers... then I definitely need to check that out.  However... I have PEQ already directly via the subs... I really just need them linked up for volume... don't necessarily need more complexity.

Thank you.

67 (edited by KaiS 2024-02-18 16:27:01)

Re: Any news on RME DPS-2

jmimac351 wrote:

If there is some benefit the ADI-2/4 would have for 2 channel audio with dual subwoofers, then I guess I should be looking at that.  I guess the difference (if any) of what is being output from Lines 1/2 vs Lines 3/4…

If you ask me:

3 subs are best, as you get a kind of line array which makes the bass directional.
This cancels out a lot of room modes.

I have two vertical bass line arrays, and the result is just great.


ADI-2/4 Pro SE’s 1/2 and 3/4 are almost the same, as the balanced Rear TRS can be assigned to channel 3/4.
On ADI-2 Pro they are permanently assigned to 1/2, so just duplicate the XLRs.

Running subs on individual outputs are a major complication and can make EQing the system much more difficult, unless you have expert knowledge.

Re: Any news on RME DPS-2

KaiS wrote:
jmimac351 wrote:

Now, I'm in the market for an RME ADI-2 Pro FS R Black Edition unit... for Digital Output... so I can plug it into other DACs and utilize the DSP (and keep having fun)…

You might even consider RME ADI-2/4 Pro SE.

Even if you currently don’t need it’s extras like vinyl turntable direct connection (RIAA preamp) and separate line out option for channel 3/4, it might pay out in the future.

Well, I took your advice and bought an ADI-2/4 yesterday.  Thank You for your patience and thoughtful advice.

Re: Any news on RME DPS-2

MC wrote:

Thanks KaiS. Missing any kind of certification plus you never acess the manufacturer for compensation of the burned down house add to this. wink

The DPS-2 and the LNI-2 DC will be annouced officially soon and available soon as well. Development and final manufacturing took much longer than expected, but the final products are worth their price and true RME in any way. Which also means they are not cheap, sorry.


How soon? big_smile  I am eager to know everything.

70

Re: Any news on RME DPS-2

The manuals will be up in about 3 weeks. They answer a lot of questions.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: Any news on RME DPS-2

MC wrote:

The manuals will be up in about 3 weeks. They answer a lot of questions.


Super, thank you!

Will these be displayed at High-End Munich?

72

Re: Any news on RME DPS-2

Of course.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: Any news on RME DPS-2

MC wrote:

Of course.

Perfect, see you there then. wink

You could bring one extra, and I will buy it directly from you! big_smile

Re: Any news on RME DPS-2

Finally, after several pre-announcements of the DPS-2 RME released their first linear power supply with some cool features.
Please find below the link to the specs, manual and some pictures:
https://www.instagram.com/p/C5MLHB8Mt8j … s4YWd2cDN5

ADI-2 Pro FS R BE

75

Re: Any news on RME DPS-2

What - no Rick Astley?

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: Any news on RME DPS-2

So that was spam by Pervasice?

Cannot fint any info. yikes

Re: Any news on RME DPS-2

MC wrote:

The manuals will be up in about 3 weeks. They answer a lot of questions.

Any news on the manual or any other info? :-D

I am curious and it's been more than three weeks. :-D
Sorry for the nagging.

78

Re: Any news on RME DPS-2

2 more days...

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: Any news on RME DPS-2

MC wrote:

2 more days...


I hope that today we have news ...

Re: Any news on RME DPS-2

Im very very curious about why one would need a manual for a psu? big_smile

ADI-2 DAC, ADI-2 PRO, DigifaceUSB, UCXII, ARC, HEGEL.h80, KEF.ls50, HD650, ie400pro _,.\''/.,_

81

Re: Any news on RME DPS-2

I hoped that too. Unfortunately I was now advised to upload the manuals Wednesday next week. Sorry for the wait.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME