Re: Zero Latency Monitoring

If the mixer has a phone's output, or otherwise, you would need to connect a headphone preamp to each pair (stereo) of line output of your mixer.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

52 (edited by KaiS 2023-06-25 12:57:25)

Re: Zero Latency Monitoring

vpj wrote:

Just another thought, can headphone 1/2 and headphone 3/4 be sent to a very small mixer and then headphones plugged into the mixer?

Yes, but one would loose all quality of ADI-2 and add complications.
Not all small mixers have powerfull enough headphones output for monitoring of unmastered music.


The primary idea is quite simple and straight forward:
Take headphones with balanced cable, adapt them to ADI-2 with the special connection scheme and you‘re done.

It took a bit longer here, because your preferred headphones aren‘t available balanced from the factory.

53 (edited by PhenM 2023-07-02 07:28:05)

Re: Zero Latency Monitoring

KaiS wrote:
vpj wrote:
waedi wrote:

Do you want to listen with a headphone or with loudspeakers connected to the analog outputs ?

Headphones

In this case my mentioned hardware (“hack”) adapter cable would be the most cost-efficient solution, if you have headphones with balanced connections option.

All you need is an inexpensive replacement cable (to mod) for the headphones, plus 2 pc. 1/4“ TRS jacks, and some minor soldering skills.

A typical balanced headphones cable consists of 4 wires internally, that will be connected like this:
• Hot left, hot right –> Tip, Ring 3/4
• Cold left, cold right –> Tip, Ring 1/2

This combines the signals of output 1/2 and 3/4 without causing the short that a simple y-cable would.
Now you can play the Studio One music track on 1/2 while additionally monitoring the analog input on 3/4, adjust each individually.

I've been looking at $1000+ pcie cards all night....just thinking....this is literally, just taking my AES signal and and spitting it back out.

I'm 100% gonna try this, and if it works....you're my hero.  Spent all week recording on my $130 focusrite scarlet, with my ADI-2 pro powered off.  Fingers crossed.....you will literally be my hero.

I think this is the first time my DT1990-pros will be using all 4 connectors, lol.

Edit...actually, idk why, but I could've sworn these were balanced headphones.....any ways, I've been putting off buying either a set of AKG or Sennheiser reference grade open back headphones for the last 2 months.  Guess I have a new criteria to add to the must have list.

Pointless gripe(just venting):  The Adi-2's neither having totalmixfx nor being particularly performant using ASIO over usb has really caused recording vocals to be a major pain point for me.  Anything less than 1024 samples at 192k has major clipping in ableton.  My scarlet can go down to 256 samples at 192k easy.  I did not expect that.  Otherwise, of course, this unit is absolutely spectacular in every way.

54 (edited by ramses 2023-07-02 12:11:59)

Re: Zero Latency Monitoring

Hi PhenM,

I also tried a 2-minute recording with the ADI-2 Pro FS R BE once and had no problems with audio dropouts.
Connected a tube mic with its preamp to the analog input of the ADI-2 Pro.

Sample rate 192 kHz.
ASIO Buffersize: 128 samples (lowest possible setting @quad speed, equivalent to 32 samples @single speed).

About the setup:
- UFX III switched off
- Recording via Cubase 12.0.60
- MADIface driver 0.9821
- ADI-2 Pro FS R BE:
   - Basic Mode: USB
   - CC mode Multichannel
   - Clock: internal
- ADI-2 Pro connected to USB3 port of Sonnet Allegro Pro USB3.0 PCIe, 4x Fresco Logic 1100 Chipset

I can only speculate as to why it doesn't work flawlessly on your system or why it worked on the Scarlett.

1- The Scarlett has 2 channels, while the ADI-2 Pro has more channels in multichannel mode.
2- The RME driver operates with lower latencies and a smaller safety buffer.
3- The Scarlett ASIO driver uses different USB transfer modes that may not work well with the USB chipset on your USB ports (not 100%, just a thought)
4-There may be DPC latencies on your computer, which don't allow enough time for audio processing. This should also be considered in combination with the other points.

I apologize for it not working on your system. I just wanted to emphasize that it's not a fundamental issue of non-functionality, and your case should be examined isolated without rushing to generalize the problem.

My computer is well tuned for audio, but in fact a 7-9y old system which got CPU-, GPU-, SSD-upgrades over time.
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/Ent … mponenten/

So … Nothing special in terms of performance compared to today's systems, which are - according to CPU speed - faster, but with good drivers, low DPC latencies and, in total, well tuned / suited for audio.

Faster CPU speed doesn't mean better performance in terms of audio processing, which has additionally strong requirements for near-realtime processing. If a driver is bad, it can block CPU cores for too long. You get audio drops if audio related threads are scheduled to run on such a core, which is blocked by drivers.

Tip: maybe try different USB ports on your system (USB2, USB3). Preferable use those coming from the Chipset.
Check DPC latencies. If you have a desktop PC with a free PCIe socket: try to isolate the ADI-2 Pro behind a dedicated PCIe USB3 card (which then runs in USB-2 compatible mode).

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: Zero Latency Monitoring

I have an RME HDSPe AES for sale if you need it, I would undercut the Reverb prices, send me a PM if interested.

https://musicwall.app/hermetech

Re: Zero Latency Monitoring

Yeah, I'm seriously considering an HDSPe right now.

I'm using the madiface .9824 driver and my system is very capable.

ryzen 5800x on a x570 chipset with 32gb 3200c14 memory.  With pcie ssd.

I'm using ableton live suite, 11.newest version.

I just reinstalled windows 10 fresh after having windows 11 for a while.  I'm about to try again, but I haven't been able to set the buffer lower than 1024 without getting popping.  At 512 it's tolerable, but then I don't know if the recording will be good or not.  If I'm not playing audio from my daw, then 512 will work, but then that's a whole different workflow.

I'll let you know if fresh windows improves the situation.

I'm about to post in HDSPe after looking around for another few minutes.  Trying to pick between the RayDat, AIO pro, and AES.

Re: Zero Latency Monitoring

So the fresh install of windows 10 with only ableton and minimum drivers has drastically improved the situation.  I recorded a vocal track last night at 512 samples 192khz, with about 20 active audio/midi tracks with effects running, and the popping/clicking was extremely faint and not present in the export.

I am going to stem out the song and try at 256 today, and will let you know how this goes.   At  512, the latency is manageable for sure.  256 would be more than sufficient.  This is quite surprising to me.

Does anyone have any thoughts on whether this is more likely due to windows 11 not being ideal for ableton or madiface driver, or is it possible other usb related drivers or installed services running in the back ground are the culprit for the performance difference?

Re: Zero Latency Monitoring

See

- https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.ph … 87#p204587 and then #4 -> DPC latencies.

Is your computer optimized for audio? C-/P-/T-States disabled in the BIOS, Halt States disabled, ..?

What energy profile do you use? Did you disable energy saving for USB? Selective USB Energy saving?

See also this posting and follow the links to further performance related postings
https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.ph … 36#p196936

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: Zero Latency Monitoring

Yes to disabling usb energy savings and highest power profile available in windows.

Disabling C states in bios is interesting.  I hadn't seen that one yet.  I will try that as well now.

I always connect this unit to an empty usb controller and have tried the usb2, usb3(chipset), and usb3(direct cpu) controllers.

I hadn't heard of DPC Latency before, but I found an article on sweetwater just now:
https://www.sweetwater.com/sweetcare/ar … -fix-them/

My hardware drivers stay up to date, and there were not any IRQ conflicts.  I've built systems that have had crashes before because of them, and have learned to check system information in windows after building.

I also run DISM and SFC as one of my first troubleshooting methods.

There are some other items in the article, mostly related to networking issues that I have not done before.

I suspect something else is at play here.  It could be windows 11 or it could be other drivers and services.
I had software installed for my keyboard, mouse, and small keyboard used for gaming, as well as steam and several games installed.  Also Discord could have been an issue here.  I never had it running in the background when recording, but I don't fully understand the complexities of the windows registry.

The difference after the fresh install is remarkable.  I've had this unit for at least 6 months, if not more and operation has always been as described before.  Now it's ASIO performance in ableton is outstanding.

I do daily vocal practices listening to qobuz playing over wasapi exclusive mode,  while recording in ableton to critique myself.   I've done this for a long time and always had tolerable clicks at 512 buffer 192K.

Today I was able to run at 128 buffer 192Khz with roughly the same amount of clicking and possibly less.

I also worked on a song after exporting 3 stem tracks, and recorded with effects at 128 buffer 96KHz, with no problem whatsoever.

I'm not sure what the real issue here was, but I did actually order an HDSPe RayDat earlier.  Having TotalMix FX to control monitor levels as well as on DSP routing will be a nice benefit, even with the adi-2 performing at this level.  I probly wouldn't have bought it, had this worked this well all along, but I think it's a worth while addition none the less.

60 (edited by dreamdreamt 2023-07-31 11:03:05)

Re: Zero Latency Monitoring

Hi PhenM,

if you want you can run this program LatencyMon for 10-20 minutes for example to check if your system is suitable for audio recording. The chart should stay in green as shown on the pictures.
What I've noticed is that of a big importance is the exact model and manufacturer of the PC components and their drivers (for example I am very happy with the MSI mainboards , I do not experience interruptions like with some other brands).

https://www.resplendence.com/latencymon
https://www.resplendence.com/download/LatencyMon.exe

Re: Zero Latency Monitoring

TotalMixFX zero latency monitoring is as advertised.  After the fresh instal the adi-2's usb a little more, it definitely was better, but it just can't compare to DSP monitoring.

DAW monitoring in windows is something that I think is not possible with the kind of latencies many musicians/vocalist would feel perfectly comfortable working in.  Maybe I change my mind about that after working with the raydat more, but DSP monitoring is so much better than I thought it would be.  It matches onboard hardware monitoring as far as I'm concerned.  Not distinguishable difference, and you can control all levels.  Now I have to learn how to use totalmix.  I had some minor trouble routing audio, but was able to figure out basics in less than an hour.

For reference on my latest attempts at DAW monitoring via adi-2 madiface asio:

I'm running on an MSI x570s ace max, generally I prefer ASUS,  but this board had a ton of configurations available as well as overkill VRM/Mosfets.

I literally didn't have anything on my windows install except chipset, ethernet, nvidia, madiface drivers, with ableton being the only software.  All downloaded from the manufacturer that day.  I updated bios about a week ago, and about 3 months before that.

I disabled internal sound card and wifi/bluetooth in the bios.  Disabled global C-states, even set a higher priority to abletons processes and disabled all features except for dot net, smb 1.0, remote deferential compression api support, powershell, and windows media player.

62 (edited by dreamdreamt 2023-08-02 15:09:25)

Re: Zero Latency Monitoring

Did you run the LatencyMon and evenually what does it show? I know some findings  (from me and other people from different forums) that Nvidia drivers are causing pops/clicks issues , that also AMD based PCs are worse in that regard compared to Intel. For the experiment you can try to deinstall the Nvidia card and drivers and use the integrated AMD graphics.

BTW my PC is 13600KF (5.7GHz clocked) , MSI Z690 pro-a MB , 32GB DDR4 3200 , AMD 6600XT graphic card. I own a Babyface Pro and a Fireface 802 FS and I feel the tracking and recording like in real time on the lowest setting 48 samples with absolutely no clicks and pops.
The same is with my cheap laptop Lenovo Ideapad 3 with Intel Pentium Gold 7505 Processor.

Re: Zero Latency Monitoring

For nVidia cards, you might even need to deactivate the energy saving function on the GPU itself by using a 3rd party tool called powermizer from a Russian developer. Detected this info on Steinberg Forum and this was the final thing missing for stability and no clicks. Use extended search and search for powermizer and my name ramses, then you will find several postings.
Or also a combination: latencymon AND powermizer.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13