Topic: Madiface XT2 inputs channel order into DAW

I have a major issue. I've written before about it and as I contemplate upgrading my rig the problem has gotten worse. My system is currently Madiface XT2 and two FerroFish A32Pro's.

I use several different DAWs. It's necessary that the 64 channels from the two FerroFish units arrive in sequential order in the DAW. At 88.2/96k, this happens automatically because the MADI channel count is 32ch per device. At 44.1/48k, I need to use a separate TotalMix workspace which uses the Loopback feature to send the second FerroFish's 32ch to DAW inputs 33-64.

Needing to use two different TotalMix Workspaces has been a major headache. We'll have a nice headphone mix built and refined tracking one song, and then that headphone mix is reset when the next song requires a different sample rate. Guest engineers are complaining quite a bit - if they forget to change the Totalmix Workspace, they won't see any of the 2nd FerroFish's inputs in their DAW, and I'll get a phone call and need to remind them of what to do, and to all of us as professional engineers seems like a hack workaround. Furthermore, using the loopback feature "prints" my TotalMix EQ/dynamics to the DAW, which is quite undesireable when using these features to refine the headphone and control room monitoring mix, yet needing to capture unaffected and clean sounds into the DAW. Again, explaining this to many experienced guest engineers goes something like this .. "the TotalMix EQ doesn't get passed to the DAW for the first 32 channels, but it does for channels 33-64". Huh?

Now I'm confronted with another hurdle. I want to expand my imputs and make use of the third MADI port on my Madiface XT2. In order to configure TotalMix to accommodate 96 sequential channels, I LOSE all of my hardware D/A outputs on the 2nd FerroFish, because those channels get "stolen" by loopback.

The solution is simple. An option within the Madiface XT2 control panel that simply leaves the entire channel count consistent regardless of sample rate. When the sample rate changes to 96k, TotalMix still shows all 64 channels for each of the 3 MADI streams - but the unavailable channels (33-64, 97-128) will effectively be dead - no audio - but the DAW will still see them, and therefore no channel remapping or Totalmix Workspace reset will be necessary.

If you think about this from my perspective, I think you'll see this is madness and for a high channel count flagship interface for one of the best companies in the world, is totally unacceptable that we need to create these odd workarounds. Please consider my thoughts on this matter. I would do anything to stay within the RME ecosystem, I love the hardware, software, company ethos.

Lastly - if anyone has any ideas for solutions I may be overlooking, I'm all ears!

Thanks for your time.

MADIface XT2  -  FerroFish A32Pro x2  -  REAPER

Re: Madiface XT2 inputs channel order into DAW

The point is that for double-speed "channel multiplexing" is needed.
You need two channels to get the needed bandwidth for double speed.
By this you loose 50% of channels, same as with ADAT.
Instead of MADI bus #1 ch 1- 64    -> ch 1-32
Instead of MADI bus #2 ch 65-128 -> ch 33-64

Keep the two Ferrofish 32-port converters connected to two different MADI buses.
This is needed anyway for double speed to not lose port capacity.

I wouldn't use loopback. A better approach is to use two different DAW templates for projects,
one for working at single speed, the other for working at double speed.

BR Ramses - HDSPe MADI FX, M-1620 Pro D, 12Mic, UFX III, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, Nuendo 15, Win10 IoT Ent

Re: Madiface XT2 inputs channel order into DAW

Using a different channel map in the DAW is a very poor option. That channel map change is a hassle in some DAWs, and almost impossible in others. This suggestion just proves my point even more. For a flagship interface made by one of the most trusted companies changing either DAW channel maps or Totalmix workspaces takes time away from creative productivity and feels hacky.

MADIface XT2  -  FerroFish A32Pro x2  -  REAPER

Re: Madiface XT2 inputs channel order into DAW

Using different sample rates is the cause of your issues.

M1-Tahoe, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue

Re: Madiface XT2 inputs channel order into DAW

This is commercial recording studio hosting many guest engineers and styles of music. Calling different sample rates the cause my problem is like saying driving up a hill is too much to ask of a car.

MADIface XT2  -  FerroFish A32Pro x2  -  REAPER

Re: Madiface XT2 inputs channel order into DAW

Loopback to post 2

M1-Tahoe, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue

Re: Madiface XT2 inputs channel order into DAW

You do not need to use loopback at 44/48k. Seems like you have connected both converters to individual MADI inputs. At 44/48, this isn't necessary, you can daisy-chain them.
See page 17/18 of the Ferrofish manual.

One unit can combine the channels of two into 64 consecutive channels to feed one MADI input, no loopback required.

For 88/96, you would still need the individual connections due to bandwidth limitations. But to retain the channel sequence at 44/48, all you need to do is connect the second unit both to the XT (optical) and to the first converter (BNC) and create presets for both scenarios on the first converter, where either you will be sending out the individual signal from each converter to the XT or the combined signal from the first one, which will include the second converter's channels as 33-64...

I don't know if or how the converter's matrix changes at 88/96 and whether you will actually need to switch between presets or it will just work automatically. Ferrofish can help, if needed. I would assume that configuration presets also include the latency compensation setting, but I'm not entirely sure. I don't work for Ferrofish...

I'm confident that your studio engineers will have no trouble figuring this out. 

Your suggested solution would not provide consecutive channels, there would always be a gap (33-64), so this makes limited sense (even less so at 176/192). The XT is not to blame for the fact that these converters only have 32 inputs and therefore don't fully utilize the MADI connection's capabilities... If the A32 were an A64, this would not be an issue.

But that's what daisy-chaining is for...

While your car analogy doesn't really work, one might say you are blaming the car for going slower and using more gas uphill, not the hill itself... ;-)

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Re: Madiface XT2 inputs channel order into DAW

Thank you for this information, it's a great idea. In order to do this, I'll need to purchase a second module for the FerroFish that will get me into the BNC's, correct? And although I am eager to try this, it also does mean that I will not be able to upgrade to a third interface in the future. Again, pretty "hacky".

For my suggested solution, the track gap is fine. It's all about providing the DAWs a consistent channel mapping. Before I purchased the RME/FerroFish system, I had a SSL MX4 pci card and a pair of MADI AlphaLinks. The MX4 card's software mixer was primitive in many ways compared to TotalMix, but it had exactly this behavior I am describing. And so my proposal is not just theoretical. I lived with that MADI routing paradigm for years and it was fantastic.

My flawed car analogy aside, I fail to understand how my proposal isn't the best solution to this problem. The only cost is some time for the developers at the software side.

I appreciate your time. cheers

MADIface XT2  -  FerroFish A32Pro x2  -  REAPER

9 (edited by waedi 2026-05-23 18:28:15)

Re: Madiface XT2 inputs channel order into DAW

jocko wrote:

Thank you for this information, it's a great idea. In order to do this, I'll need to purchase a second module for the FerroFish that will get me into the BNC's, correct?

Both Ferrofish have optical Madi ports ?
Then you can make daisy-chain with optical cabel.

You can open the housing of the connector and the two plugs split appart.
You may need an additional optical madi cabel to go from one unit to the other.


https://cdn11.bigcommerce.com/s-tsw2okvg64/images/stencil/500x659/products/21479/99747/1__53596_copy__05075.1721134199.jpg?c=2


https://www.rme-usa.com/files/uploads/RME-Products/Alva%20Cables/MADI.jpg

M1-Tahoe, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue

10 (edited by ramses 2026-05-23 21:50:58)

Re: Madiface XT2 inputs channel order into DAW

waedi wrote:
jocko wrote:

Thank you for this information, it's a great idea. In order to do this, I'll need to purchase a second module for the FerroFish that will get me into the BNC's, correct?

Both Ferrofish have optical Madi ports ?
Then you can make daisy-chain with optical cabel.

@waedi: daisy-chaining makes no sense. He wants to use single and double speed.
At double speed, one MADI bus is fully utilized with one A32 Pro.

@jocko: I explained everything in posting #2 of this thread, but maybe something was still unclear.

If you would like to use single and double speed, then you need to connect both A32 Pros to different MADI buses.
The XT II has two optical MADI buses, MADI1 and MADI2 (and one additional with BNC connectors).

Why BNC cabling? Better stick to fiber connections, e.g., by using OM4 multimode fiber cables. This brings you the benefit of galvanic isolation between all connected devices and proactively prevents hum, etc.

I would get the multimode SFPs from RME; they offer them cheaper compared to Ferrofish.
https://rme-audio.de/de_sfp-module.html

EDIT: an additional benefit of connecting only one A32 Pro per MADI bus is, that the MADI routing on the MADI devices itself becomes easier, as you only need to route channels from the MADI bus to the local analog ports of the A32 and vice versa. No need to forward the other 32ch through for the next device in a daisy chained setup.
See my posting here for a setup where MADI devices are daisy chained:
https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.ph … 91#p252091

Here the proposed setup

[ click to the URL to download the drawing if your browser doesn't render/display the image properly or too small ]

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/k958s22m … t&dl=1
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/k958s22mx9q8r83cfbyeg/2026-05-23-RME-XT-II-with-two-Ferro-A32-Pro-via-OM4-MM-using-two-MADI-buses.jpg?rlkey=f2vjiys5qznu0m30xhd697lk5&st=a1c9hxnt&dl=1

BR Ramses - HDSPe MADI FX, M-1620 Pro D, 12Mic, UFX III, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, Nuendo 15, Win10 IoT Ent

Re: Madiface XT2 inputs channel order into DAW

jocko wrote:

Thank you for this information, it's a great idea. In order to do this, I'll need to purchase a second module for the FerroFish that will get me into the BNC's, correct? And although I am eager to try this, it also does mean that I will not be able to upgrade to a third interface in the future. Again, pretty "hacky".

Whoops, I overlooked the fact that unlike its predecessor, the A32 Pro does not have any BNC MADI connections. :-/
In that case, you could use 4 simple Toslink cables to route all 32 channels of the second converter to the ADAT inputs of the first one, where you can route them to MADI 33-64.
Or you could get one additional module for the second converter, if you are not using the first one's MADI input.

This solution avoids having to use any Loopback and it does in fact allow you to use the third MADI input, provided you connect a device with a coaxial output. I was never referring to the BNC connection on the XT.

As I said, I am not sure how the matrix on the A32 behaves when switching between sample rate ranges, you'll have to try. You may need to save two separate presets, but that's less cumbersome than what you are doing in Totalmix and it does away with all the Loopback business.

My flawed car analogy aside, I fail to understand how my proposal isn't the best solution to this problem. The only cost is some time for the developers at the software side.

Extremely unlikely to happen, as it would only solve an issue caused by the fact that the A32 is not an A64. Lots and lots of unused/unusable channels won't serve any purpose.
And then we'd also have to provide a solution for people using more than one Ferrofish Pulse 16MX, which only has 16 channels... Or the older RME M16 AD.

If you need to fill up a MADI connection to capacity for the kind of reasons you mention, it's best to do it externally by way of daisy-chaining.

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Re: Madiface XT2 inputs channel order into DAW

ramses wrote:

@jocko: I explained everything in posting #2 of this thread, but maybe something was still unclear.

You possibly overlooked the fact that in #3, it's clearly stated that working with DAW templates and changing input routing tables is not a desirable option, so let's work with that and try to avoid these things.

Also, the idea is more about making the channel sequence at 44/48 consistent with the situation at 88/96, not the other way around. At 88/96, you have a neatly aligned sequence of 64 input channels. At 44/48, you have a gap.
So my idea would be, rather than use Loopback or remapping, to fill up the unused channels 33-64 on the first converter with signal from the second, and use only one MADI input, second one remaining unused in the DAW (@ 44/48). That way it's just channels 1-64 as they come from the interface in both scenarios. It would have been easy with a BNC connection between the two converters, but since that doesn't exist, it can also be accomplished with ADAT. And a routing to channels to channels 33-64 does not affect the MADI output at 88/96, it will just be ignored/dropped. Not sure how the matrix on the converter behaves when the sample rate range switches.

There would, however, still be a gap between these and the channels of the third (BNC) input at 44/48, if that were to be used later... Not quite sure how to solve that, but that's for another day and it also depends on what device may be added eventually. 

EDIT: an additional benefit of connecting only one A32 Pro per MADI bus is, that the MADI routing on the MADI devices itself becomes easier, as you only need to route channels from the MADI bus to the local analog ports of the A32 and vice versa. No need to forward the other 32ch through for the next device in a daisy chained setup.

I don't see that as a problem, it's essentially set and forget, possibly requiring a change of preset on the converter, but no rewiring or so. And no loopback or changes of DAW mapping.

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

13 (edited by ramses 2026-05-24 08:42:43)

Re: Madiface XT2 inputs channel order into DAW

to 1- Cool idea, Daniel. I never thought about something like this and really had to think about it for a while.
        Downside: you are wasting channels by this that you might need for other things in the future.
        And I think it adds a little complexity into the setup.

to 2- Forwarding of channels when daisy chaining / Local routing of channels on MADI devices
        It's not a "problem" once you know it. But I remember that I stumbled over it myself at the beginning.
        Once known, it is logical, but it is not really "intuitive".
        I remember, for example, the postings of two forum members, both with two Ferrofish Pulse 16 MX.

Some general thoughts about this. If this were to be solved on the driver level, you would need something like a mapping of physical ports to ports that you present to the DAW to be able to match whatever case. For MADI and for ADAT and sample rate dependent. This would add much complexity into the driver, which might even lower driver efficiency and might be difficult to maintain and also to support.
I did not hear about any manufacturer who supports this on the driver level. It might even make driver features and optimizations like in the HDSPe MADI FX driver much harder or impossible to implement.

BR Ramses - HDSPe MADI FX, M-1620 Pro D, 12Mic, UFX III, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, Nuendo 15, Win10 IoT Ent

Re: Madiface XT2 inputs channel order into DAW

No channels wasted, really. You get all 64 channels from both converters in both scenarios and you just have to select channels 1-64 in your DAW. I don't think anything gets wasted, not sure where you see that happening. Not any more than leaving half the channels of each MADI input unused at 44/48.

Yes, it does take a bit of preparation, but so did setting up plenty of Loopback channels, and different DAW setups would do so as well.

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

15 (edited by ramses 2026-05-24 09:16:03)

Re: Madiface XT2 inputs channel order into DAW

Isn't it a waste if you double-allocate I/O ports (ADAT, MADI(BNC)) for connecting the 2nd A32 Pro
just for the sake of having channels 1-64 at double speed without a hole?
Those channels are allocated exclusively for the use case "double speed" and can't be used for other things.

BR Ramses - HDSPe MADI FX, M-1620 Pro D, 12Mic, UFX III, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, Nuendo 15, Win10 IoT Ent

Re: Madiface XT2 inputs channel order into DAW

How would you otherwise use these channels? And it's actually for avoiding the gap at 44/48 to create a continuous channel sequence.  Nothing gets allocated exclusively and I don't think the ADATs are in use otherwise.

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Re: Madiface XT2 inputs channel order into DAW

Ok, so you're only looking at the current demand.
My view is this. Who knows what the future holds? Physical ports are "precious" as there is cost behind them.
That's why my general recommendation—or point of view—is, not to use free ports unless it's absolutely necessary.
Using two DAW project templates isn't difficult, and I'd be surprised if there were DAWs around today, that wouldn't allow the creation of project templates. You will certainly create one anyway to save some work, and to change 32 I/O ports in it is not much of an effort.

BR Ramses - HDSPe MADI FX, M-1620 Pro D, 12Mic, UFX III, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, Nuendo 15, Win10 IoT Ent