• Registered: 2015-05-04
  • Posts: 5

Topic: FF 800 and Audient ASP880 sync problem

Hello all, I've googled a bunch but haven't found a solution to this specific issue. Hopefully one of you can help me.

I've been helping a friend to reorganize his studio. He has two FF800s and an Audient ASP880 which I guess is similar to an Octamic -  eight preamps, wordclock in and ADAT out. The problem is getting it all to sync. I haven't done this a lot before but I'm pretty sure I get the theory, however it doesn't seem to be working out.

Basically, the idea is to daisychain the two FF800s and then add the Audient to one of them for extra inputs. We can get the two FFs recognized easily, and they're both working fine. I'm a little puzzled why they allow both to be set to different samplerates but setting them to the same one manually works so I'm not complaining. As far as I understand, no further syncing is required between them.

Wanting to connect the Audient to one of them, we ensured the FF800 was set to "master" and hooked up a BNC Wordclock cable from its Wordclock Out to the Audient's Wordclock In. We terminated there using the 75Ohm switch. We set the Audient to external clocking and the button on it lights up green to indicate succesful slaving.  Then we connect its ADAT output to the FF800's ADAT in.

Having the RME at 44.1K, this setup results in a flickering sync light and constant pops and clicks. The FF800 settings screen shows ADAT1 switching between "lock" and "sync" (what's the difference??)  and the samplerate seems to jump down to 33.something occasionally. However, switching the Fireface to 48KHz results in a completely stable "sync" after a second or so.

The Audient supports 44.1, 48, 88.2 and 96KHz. Indeed, as master this seems to work. But with the clock slaved from the RME it only works at 48KHz. That's not a disaster but obviously it would be nice to have a flexible setup. And I can't think of any reason why it would sync at one supported frequency and not another. Especially since the FF800 is generating the clock itself.

Does anyone have any idea what might be going wrong?

  • marQs
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  • Registered: 2007-08-20
  • Posts: 194

Re: FF 800 and Audient ASP880 sync problem

Don't know the Audient, but from the pictures it looks like you have to manually switch the samplerate on it if you change it. See if you get 'sync' state then. Lock is not enough, it just indicates there's a valid digital signal present which is not necessarily in sync.

To make full use of 96 kHz you need two ADAT lightpipes going to the fireface (double bandwith, so each lightpipe transports just 4 channels).

  • Registered: 2015-05-04
  • Posts: 5

Re: FF 800 and Audient ASP880 sync problem

The sample rate selection goes between 44.1, 48, 88.2, 96KHz and "external" (no lights on and the button lights up green). This is working and again, I get perfect sync at 48KHz. I could switch the interface to master at 44.1 and set the RME to slave but supposedly the RME clock is quite good. Plus I'd need to also sync the second FF800.

Thanks for replying though, I was afraid nobody would have any idea!

  • TonyS
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  • Registered: 2015-04-06
  • Posts: 30

Re: FF 800 and Audient ASP880 sync problem

To troubleshoot, I would take one FF800 out of the picture and get the ASP880 to work with just one FF800. After, I wouldn't assume the two FF800's do not need to be synced in a complex setup like this.

  • Registered: 2015-05-04
  • Posts: 5

Re: FF 800 and Audient ASP880 sync problem

Actually turning off one of the FF800s made no difference at all. I should have said that from the start but it was already such an elaborate story.

  • marQs
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Re: FF 800 and Audient ASP880 sync problem

sanderveeken wrote:

The sample rate selection goes between 44.1, 48, 88.2, 96KHz and "external" (no lights on and the button lights up green).

'External' sounds about right when the Fireface is master (which I would also recommend). I have a Focusrite Octopre running as slave but if I change the samplerate it needs to be adjusted manually, so being slave and needing a button pushed do not necessarily rule each other out.

By the way, why don't you just hook up the second Fireface via ADAT (in + out = no WC needed)? Daisy chaining will give you 56 channels in + out @ 44.1 with two FFs but just makes sense if you really need that much (be sure to use Firewire 800).

FF1 + FF2 ADAT in/out (slave) + ASP800 (ADAT out + WC, slave) should work like a dream. Ok, with sample rates above 48 kHz you'd need to do some cabling...

  • Registered: 2015-05-04
  • Posts: 5

Re: FF 800 and Audient ASP880 sync problem

Thanks, I'll try with the switch on the Audient set to 44.1KHz, but I think we did try that.

As far as I understand, while both firefaces are connected through FW, no further syncing is necessary? At least both seem to work fine and produce audio in the DAW. So I don't see how using ADAT would be easier in this case? This doesn't help with the ASP880 though. We'd like to have 26 analog inputs. The first FF800 is running the Audient over ADAT and a Focusrite ISA preamp with 8 ins. The second one is running a bunch of Mindprints, Joemeek and TL Audio stuff (10 inputs total). Both FF800s then are set up to direct out their inputs sequentially over 16 ADAT channels into two Alesis HD24s which keeps his "old" workflow intact and also serves as backup.

8 Reply by MC

  • MC
  • MC
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  • Registered: 2007-04-06
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Re: FF 800 and Audient ASP880 sync problem

> As far as I understand, while both firefaces are connected through FW, no further syncing is necessary?

Wrong. The manual explains operation of multiple devices in great detail, including the unavoidable synchronization.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

  • Registered: 2015-05-04
  • Posts: 5

Re: FF 800 and Audient ASP880 sync problem

Oh weird since both are working fine. But it's not complicated to add another WC cable with a splitter. I'm mainly concerned with the Audient at the moment.

10 Reply by garry (edited by garry 2016-01-13 01:29:25)

  • garry
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  • From: Wales, UK
  • Registered: 2007-05-12
  • Posts: 251

Re: FF 800 and Audient ASP880 sync problem

Hi, i recently purchased an audient ASP880 last week, and have had nothing but trouble with it.
UFX master -> wordclock to Audient, shows external sync and the adat1 light shows as sycned on the UFX

Starts off fine, but after about 30mins (once the audient warms up) the adat light starts flashing and the rme control panel reports lock/sync intermittently, the longer teh device is left on, the worse and more frequent the sync losses become.

Spoke with Audient who said there may be a firmware update needed (some early units had an this issue)
Anyway their support said it was going to be collected on Monday, but they failed to collect, so I spoke with the retailer (Absolute music) and they sent a new unit & collected the old one today.

Exactly the same issue, I suspect the Audient has some thermal issues, Im getting a refund and going to get the RME octamic XTC instead, while the audient does sound fantastic, i cant rely on it and wouldn't ever trust it on an important session.

from my findings... if you connect the adat cable to the bottom port on the ASP880, sync is fine and never drops, the only issue is when using the top ADAT port, however then you are limited to 44.1 or 48khz, as you wouldnt be able to SMUX in future..
I would suggest you get in touch with Audient and ask them to investigate/upgrade firmware.

Id be interested to know if you see the same issue as me
(faulty sync in top port of asp880 and working sync in bottom port)


regards
Garry

_

RME HDSP9652 | | RME Digiface USB
  • Registered: 2016-07-25
  • Posts: 2

Re: FF 800 and Audient ASP880 sync problem

Hi,

did you resolve your issue with the ASP880? I'm having the same problems with an ASP880 in combination with a Focusrite Scarlett 18i20. Connected to the ADAT port on top of the ASP unit, i get frequent clicks and sync errors after about 30 minutes of use. The ADAT port on the bottom on the other hand works fine.

Did you send it in to update your ASP's firmware, or did you find any solution to this?

Thanks for your information,
Herbert

  • garry
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  • Registered: 2007-05-12
  • Posts: 251

Re: FF 800 and Audient ASP880 sync problem

morast wrote:

Hi,

did you resolve your issue with the ASP880? I'm having the same problems with an ASP880 in combination with a Focusrite Scarlett 18i20. Connected to the ADAT port on top of the ASP unit, i get frequent clicks and sync errors after about 30 minutes of use. The ADAT port on the bottom on the other hand works fine.

Did you send it in to update your ASP's firmware, or did you find any solution to this?

Thanks for your information,
Herbert

Hi, Audient sent a second new unit, both confirmed as their "latest firmware" but both had the issue.
I got a refund and put the money toward a RME octamic xtc.. which I am so much happier with.
Better sound, digitally controlled (links into totalmix), doesn't overheat.. and 5year warranty!

I thought the asp880 would of been good unit (half the price of the octamic xtc) but I wouldn't touch Audient stuff again.

_

RME HDSP9652 | | RME Digiface USB
  • Registered: 2016-07-25
  • Posts: 2

Re: FF 800 and Audient ASP880 sync problem

KK, thanks for your information

  • Registered: 2017-03-28
  • Posts: 4

Re: FF 800 and Audient ASP880 sync problem

maybe this might help?  https://support.audient.com/hc/en-us/ar … -Explained

15 Reply by jchan (edited by jchan 2017-04-01 11:09:42)

  • jchan
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  • From: Stockholm
  • Registered: 2011-01-17
  • Posts: 52

Re: FF 800 and Audient ASP880 sync problem

+1
I can't trust Audient stuff (ID14) absolutely no reliability (MacOS Sierra). Sounds great (for the price, except headphone amp) but they better step up their driver and firmware game before they can be used in a session. Terrible stuff going on i've never experienced before in an audio interface. Some kind of Internal loopback thats slowly building up into a complete chaos and then theres just clicks and pops left... Takes about 2 minutes from the bit crusher like noise starts, and it comes randomly, you never know. Really weird. MacOS sometimes recognize it as a 2 in / 2 out interface and sometimes as advertised 10 in / 4 out.. Completely random. Audient confirmed this feedback loop and says its under investigation but suggests its a bug with the OS X core audio driver... But why doesn't this happen to my FF800 or my ADi-2 Pro, or any other interface I've ever used.. hm. Get to work Audient! Like the Burr Brown sound! smile

Buy RME and you only cry once smile

  • garry
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  • Registered: 2007-05-12
  • Posts: 251

Re: FF 800 and Audient ASP880 sync problem

kobi_dog wrote:

maybe this might help?  https://support.audient.com/hc/en-us/ar … -Explained

That won't help poorly designed hardware.. (overheating  pre-amps!)
Just steer clear of Audient if you need anything for reliable work.

_

RME HDSP9652 | | RME Digiface USB
  • Registered: 2023-06-13
  • Posts: 2

Re: FF 800 and Audient ASP880 sync problem

It was my studio Sander was involved in back in 2015, trying to make things work as the manuals promised they should. At that time, no joy. We went the way of a Focusrite ISA828 connected to the analogue inputs of the FF800. Apart from the setup in my control room with 2 FF800's which still works great for me, I have a small setup with one FF800 and the Audient - which I ended up not using anymore from 2015 onwards due to the synching misery.
This week I tried to breathe a little life in the old gear and ended up with all things again working at 48 kHz - even when recording at 44.1, very mysterious indeed - and no joy at 44.1 settings except for the chorus of pops and crackles I came to expect. Then I had the idea to revisit this forum and came across Garry from Wales' remarks about using the bottom ADAT port instead of the top one, the one everybody would normally use when connecting things up. Not seriously expecting things to work out like this but after making the switch the ASP behaves like a proper slave and works effortlessly at all sample rates under the direction of the FF800 clock! So, a big thanks to you, Garry, and no thanks to Audient's firmware developers for somehow making this possible....

  • Registered: 2016-06-14
  • Posts: 1,142

Re: FF 800 and Audient ASP880 sync problem

robdrumstudio wrote:

It was my studio Sander was involved in back in 2015, trying to make things work as the manuals promised they should. At that time, no joy. We went the way of a Focusrite ISA828 connected to the analogue inputs of the FF800. Apart from the setup in my control room with 2 FF800's which still works great for me, I have a small setup with one FF800 and the Audient - which I ended up not using anymore from 2015 onwards due to the synching misery.
This week I tried to breathe a little life in the old gear and ended up with all things again working at 48 kHz - even when recording at 44.1, very mysterious indeed - and no joy at 44.1 settings except for the chorus of pops and crackles I came to expect. Then I had the idea to revisit this forum and came across Garry from Wales' remarks about using the bottom ADAT port instead of the top one, the one everybody would normally use when connecting things up. Not seriously expecting things to work out like this but after making the switch the ASP behaves like a proper slave and works effortlessly at all sample rates under the direction of the FF800 clock! So, a big thanks to you, Garry, and no thanks to Audient's firmware developers for somehow making this possible....

Do you have a word clock cable connected from the FF800 to the ASP880?

UCX - FF 400 - Babyface pro - Digiface USB - ADI-2 (original)
Mac mini M1 - Macbook pro - iPad Air2
  • Registered: 2023-06-13
  • Posts: 2

Re: FF 800 and Audient ASP880 sync problem

Yes I do. Properly terminated and all that.

  • Registered: 2023-03-26
  • Posts: 42

Re: FF 800 and Audient ASP880 sync problem

fwiw, I'm using 2 audient asp880 with a ufx3. ufx master, BNC to first unit with a t connector and out of that into the second one and it works perfectly.

However, I did have a problem losing sync after a while with one and had to get it repaired which meant a new board for the digital part. Both of those units were in the good firmware range, one just failed. I've had those units for a long time and didn't always leave rack space for ventilation of them. They have space now and have been ok fine for quite some time and running a lot of the time too. I think/guess that it's a heat induced problem.

Also fwiw, I think they sound great, but I really like the sound of the ufx3 preamps. If I was to do it again, I'd go for the 12 mic over the 2 audient and lose 4 channels, but I really like the sound of the audient as well.