• Registered: 2019-11-21
  • Posts: 38

Topic: Hello from Czech Republic!

Hello! Today I received my RME ADI-2 DAC FS.

I am sorry for my probably dumb question but I don't understand if I should install some Windows drivers. I have Windows 10 with all updates. The DAC was detected by the system and some driver was installed, but it looks like Windows driver, not RME. The DAC is detected and in foobar2000 I can select various drivers for the DAC, but I have only WSAPI choices and not ASIO as for my other DACs.

1. Should I use ASIO or WSAPI for best sound quality?
2. Should I install firmware from the RME site for this DAC? How can I find correct firmware for new DAC FS?

Thank you!

2 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2019-11-21 21:44:38)

  • ramses
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Offline
  • From: UTC+1
  • Registered: 2012-10-14
  • Posts: 12,040

Re: Hello from Czech Republic!

ASIO drivers are optimized and directly access the hardware bypassing the Windows Sound system.
WASAP is also not bad, but ASIO is a de factory standard also being used in the studio.
You need to install the ASIO drivers to be able to perform firmware upgrades.
Astonishing that you do not find firmware/drivers.
The new product pages on web have a driver subsection, there is everything in regards to this device, firmware and drivers.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13
  • Registered: 2019-11-21
  • Posts: 38

Re: Hello from Czech Republic!

Thanks, I finally figured it out I think. I have version 33 on the DAC and the ASIO driver is installed.

My God. The sound of high bitrate PCM is blowing my mind. Thank you to RME guys, AMAZING!!!

But unfortunately the ASIO driver makes the DAC disappear from Windows, Tidal app and Deezer app. I guess from what I can read on this forum this issue is acknowledged. Is there some workaround? I want to keep the ASIO driver for foobar2000 but I want to use Tidal and Deezer apps.

Right now I have a trial of Audirvana. I don't like it and I don't need it. But even when Audirvana is not running it enables the Tidal and Deezer apps to talk to the RME... I don't understand what's going on and I prefer not to pay 75 USD for this but if I have no option I'll probably buy Audirvana license and not use it at all...just the ASIO support for my apps.

4 Reply by Olli (edited by Olli 2019-11-21 22:50:06)

  • Olli
  • ADAT user
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2019-06-11
  • Posts: 26

Re: Hello from Czech Republic!

Hi tubeaudio,

not every player supports ASIO driver but foobar2000 indeed does!

So my recommendation clearly is to install the MADIface driver which you can download here: https://www.rme-usa.com/downloads.html? … _09685.zip

In foobar2000 you then have to select the MADIface driver under
File -> Preferences -> Output -> ASIO  AFTER you have added the ASIO Support under File -> Preferences -> Components.  You can download the  needed ASIO Support component by clicking on "Get more components" at the buttom of the "Componenents-Tab".

By the way it is also mandatory to have the MADIface-driver installed in order to be able to perform firmware updates! The most up to date firmware update tool (fut_madiface_win.zip) can also be downloaded from the RME-website.

EDIT:: Ok., your latest post came in during I was typing...but I will not delete my answer. Maybe it helps somebody else at any time in the future ;-)

I am also using Audirvana because the Tidal app definitely doesn't support ASIO! It is a really good piece of software and I don't regret that I spent the money for it. There are other commercial options but typically recurring license costs or very expensive lifetime licenses are involved when using them...

Have fun and enjoy!

Olli

RME ADI2-DAC FS | Intel NUC8i7
Rotel RB1582 MKII amp
Infinity Kappa 8.2i speakers
Audirvana player
  • Registered: 2019-11-21
  • Posts: 38

Re: Hello from Czech Republic!

Thank you Olli. I did it before, because my foobar2000 didn't see the DAC at all. The sound quality is amazing. But now my apps don't work without Audirvana's drivers. Is there some way to get everything to work through ASIO for apps which support it, and WASAPI for Tidal etc.?

  • Olli
  • ADAT user
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2019-06-11
  • Posts: 26

Re: Hello from Czech Republic!

Hi,

Audirvana doesn't bring in any drivers and there are no dependencies.

In my setup I have also installed the Tidal app in parallel and I can play back from there as well (tested a minute ago). Just make sure that the "Analog(1+2)" device in the Windows audio device manager is selected as the active one and it should work. Additionally you should select the "Analog (1+2)" device in the Tidal app as well. That will also enable some more options to chose from (additional setttings in Tidal).

BUT: Be ware that the sample rate will not switch automatically in case you play back high(er)-res material with Tidal. That is only supported if the MADIface driver is not installed. Then the USB Class Compliant driver from Windows will be used and the sample rate switching is supported again. This behaviour is not alterable and you have to decide where you put your priorities: ASIO driver with commercial software or WASAPI/class compliant with Tidal app and also no "native" RME ASIO support for Foobar (ASIO4all is an alternative, but not my personal favourite).

Cheers
Olli

RME ADI2-DAC FS | Intel NUC8i7
Rotel RB1582 MKII amp
Infinity Kappa 8.2i speakers
Audirvana player

7 Reply by tubeaudio (edited by tubeaudio 2019-11-22 08:17:03)

  • Registered: 2019-11-21
  • Posts: 38

Re: Hello from Czech Republic!

Hi and thanks.

In my setup when I first plugged in the RME, Windows loaded some drivers. At that point I was able to use Tidal and Deezer desktop apps but foobar2000 did not see the DAC.

Then I installed the MADIface driver and updated the firmware from RME to 33. When I rebooted, foobar2000 had the ASIO drivers for RME in the selection list but there was no Windows device and Tidal and Deezer no longer see the RME.

In my case I did not have any Windows device for the RME after installing the MADIface driver.

When I installed Audirvana the Analog (1+2) device became visible to Tidal and Deezer and foobar2000 was still ok. I can now play Tidal and Deezer even when Audirvana is not running. So I thought Audirvana installed drivers. If it does not have any then I guess I will reboot another dozen times and perhaps Windows will make up his mind in my favor!

8 Reply by tubeaudio (edited by tubeaudio 2019-11-22 09:25:49)

  • Registered: 2019-11-21
  • Posts: 38

Re: Hello from Czech Republic!

Sure enough, after uninstalling Audirvana and rebooting a few times, I still have the Analog (1+2) device and Tidal and Deezer work. Thank you.

What is the effect of the sample rate not switching back?

9 Reply by Curt962 (edited by Curt962 2019-11-22 20:49:21)

  • Registered: 2019-01-07
  • Posts: 1,462

Re: Hello from Czech Republic!

Tube,

What does the Display on your ADI-2 DAC say?   Does it match the SR of the source material?

PS:  Welcome to the Group!

Curt

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic AKM4490 Edition"
Cables:  Red, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes
  • Olli
  • ADAT user
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2019-06-11
  • Posts: 26

Re: Hello from Czech Republic!

tubeaudio wrote:

Sure enough, after uninstalling Audirvana and rebooting a few times, I still have the Analog (1+2) device and Tidal and Deezer work. Thank you.

What is the effect of the sample rate not switching back?


What exactly happens depends on the application you are using. Fact is: If the samplerate of the DAC doesn't match the one of the original material something must (have) happen and that means that youi end up in not having a bit-perfect playback.

With the help of the test fles RME offers for download, you can check your chosen setup and settings and verify if you have a bit-perfect playback or not. Yolu can find the tracks here:

https://www.rme-usa.com/downloads.html? … t_wavs.zip

If the test succeeds, you will see an appropriate message on the display of the DAC. If not, you will hear the tes file playing anyhow, but no message.

Give it a try with different setups and settings and you will learn much about the impact they have in terms of bit perfect or not. If you will also recognize audible differences remains as an open question and can only be answered by yourself because it is completely subjective, especially the judgement if the one is for you personally better over the other.

Cheers
Olli

RME ADI2-DAC FS | Intel NUC8i7
Rotel RB1582 MKII amp
Infinity Kappa 8.2i speakers
Audirvana player
  • Registered: 2019-11-21
  • Posts: 38

Re: Hello from Czech Republic!

Curt962 wrote:

Tube,

What does the Display on your ADI-2 DAC say?   Does it match the SR of the source material?

PS:  Welcome to the Group!

Curt

Thank you Curt. In the cases I noticed, the RME said the source was 176 KHz while I played some Tidal material over it. I guess this cannot be correct.

Olli wrote:
tubeaudio wrote:

Sure enough, after uninstalling Audirvana and rebooting a few times, I still have the Analog (1+2) device and Tidal and Deezer work. Thank you.

What is the effect of the sample rate not switching back?


What exactly happens depends on the application you are using. Fact is: If the samplerate of the DAC doesn't match the one of the original material something must (have) happen and that means that youi end up in not having a bit-perfect playback.

I see. Well this is unfortunate.

Olli wrote:

With the help of the test fles RME offers for download, you can check your chosen setup and settings and verify if you have a bit-perfect playback or not.

Thank you both for the help!

  • Registered: 2019-01-07
  • Posts: 1,462

Re: Hello from Czech Republic!

Tube...Sorry.  Not getting notifications. 

If the Source file, and RME dont match..something is F'd

The RME Bit Test Files Olli has described are your Best Friend at tracking down WHAT in your Audio Sftwr is causing mischief.  Nothing on Tidal is 176khz.

Something is manipulating your Data.


Curt

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic AKM4490 Edition"
Cables:  Red, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes
  • Registered: 2019-11-21
  • Posts: 38

Re: Hello from Czech Republic!

Curt962 wrote:

Tube...Sorry.  Not getting notifications. 

If the Source file, and RME dont match..something is F'd

The RME Bit Test Files Olli has described are your Best Friend at tracking down WHAT in your Audio Sftwr is causing mischief.  Nothing on Tidal is 176khz.

Something is manipulating your Data.


Curt

Hi Curt, no problem. Some of the notifications went into my spam folder also.. Anyway, Olli wrote: "BUT: Be ware that the sample rate will not switch automatically in case you play back high(er)-res material with Tidal. That is only supported if the MADIface driver is not installed."

So I understood that was the issue here. Thank you all smile

14 Reply by Curt962 (edited by Curt962 2019-11-30 20:05:00)

  • Registered: 2019-01-07
  • Posts: 1,462

Re: Hello from Czech Republic!

Hi Tube!

Perhaps you're alluding to "MQA" offered on Tidal which neither the RME supports, nor do many other Wary manufacturers.  MQA is a clever means of encoding allegedly "Hi-Res" material into a basic 44/16 package.   Manufacturers can then pay Licensing Fees to implement the decoding system in their gear, and the Consumer gets to pay again as well.  Yay!!!  I would so LOVE to pay more!!   

As so LITTLE music that is masqueraded as "Hi-Res" actually is...I think the whole thing is a screwing.

My Son just conducted some Spectral Analysis on a Redbook CD Sample, vs it's "Hi-Res" 192/24 counterpart.    Neither Recording had ANY content above 12.5khz, and artifacts within the Hi-Res copy could be precisely duplicated by merely upsampling the Redbook Disc via SOX. 

There's your "Hi-Res" for you.  Fake.  Complete Fantasy. 

A Music Industry Money-Grab, and nothing more.

Caveat Emptor!!

Curt

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic AKM4490 Edition"
Cables:  Red, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes
  • Registered: 2019-11-21
  • Posts: 38

Re: Hello from Czech Republic!

Thanks Curt. I'm aware of the "love" surrounding MQA smile There is some speculation that the MQA files could be free of the watermark certain nefarious enterprises are splattering digital media with. From my experience the MQA recordings do sound very good over my Oppo. Without being to A/B the same mastering (pretty much impossible due to the lack of info on streaming sites about exactly what you're playing) we really cannot compare apples to apples. To me, the idea of streaming compression is dumb in 2019 when people are demanding Netflix 4K on their phones. But I'm happy with the sound quality of MQA. Tidal hifi is cheap here, even cheaper than other music services.

The problem with RME not switching to the new sample rate seems to be as Olli said and regardless of MQA etc. I don't see that any of the streaming services have ASIO support. So if I want the best quality music I listen to SACD rips over foobar2000 playing through the RME smile

16 Reply by Curt962 (edited by Curt962 2019-11-30 22:57:29)

  • Registered: 2019-01-07
  • Posts: 1,462

Re: Hello from Czech Republic!

Hi again Tube.   I really do have CZ on my Travel List!!

RME is not our problem.  BS is. smile

Please understand "Hi-Res" is often flatly false, and little more than an effort to extract Money from you.   When Record Labels "Re Master" Albums.. They sell the Up Sampled Crap to you as "Hi-Res"

There is typically NOTHING better.   Levels/EQ...nothing else changes.  Pure Bullshit.   You absolutely MUST know how your High Res was produced.  Chances are, it's merely a Poor Quality, Upsampled by-Product of a Record that always DID suck.

My HIGHEST RES RECORDINGS?   Often are 44/16.   Their Production was SOOOO Paintakingly done. 

Merely adding "Samples" means nothing to me.

Curt

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic AKM4490 Edition"
Cables:  Red, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes
  • Registered: 2019-11-21
  • Posts: 38

Re: Hello from Czech Republic!

Hi Curt,

If I understand what Olli wrote in his post of 2019-11-21 22:23:57 then the issue has nothing to do with music quality, just the way things work given the driver situation on Windows and lack of ASIO exploitation of streaming apps. I have seen other devices with similar issues, for example when using WDM stack, WIndows will up/downsample to whatever you set it at and the device will see this value regardless of the actual sample rate.

I am fine with blaming Windows for all evils of the world and I'm perfectly happy with my RME. It is a super device from guys who care, really an excellent example of what happens when talented people want to create something great.

Please do not become upset on my account smile

  • Registered: 2019-01-07
  • Posts: 1,462

Re: Hello from Czech Republic!

Hi Tube!

Me?  Never Upset. smile

The Sample Rate not changing issue has been discussed endlessly, and always resolved.    You will not however EVER see SR change on Tidal.   It's always 44khz...

I never had any issues with my ADI-2DAC.   It connected seamlessly to my Antique SBT Streamer, and merrily set SR to whatever source file was playing.   Perfect!

Have Fun!!

Best Regards,

Curt.

PS:  Where in CZ??

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic AKM4490 Edition"
Cables:  Red, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes
  • Registered: 2019-11-21
  • Posts: 38

Re: Hello from Czech Republic!

Hi Curt,

Close to Prague but in a quiet setting where I don't need closed headphones big_smile

20 Reply by Curt962 (edited by Curt962 2019-12-01 10:21:23)

  • Registered: 2019-01-07
  • Posts: 1,462

Re: Hello from Czech Republic!

Praha!   Wonderful!!

My favorite Hobby items (Modelmotoren) come from Brno.   Finely Crafted.  Some of my other Czech favorites come from Plzen...in Bottles.  I'm sure you understand. smile

I hope you can enjoy your RME with ANY material!  SR is less important than the care that was taken in the recording process, and You can be certain that your new RME will not alter that in any way. 

Enjoy!!

Curt

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic AKM4490 Edition"
Cables:  Red, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes
  • Registered: 2019-11-21
  • Posts: 38

Re: Hello from Czech Republic!

Yes, it is difficult to find bad beer here even if you try hard wink

I agree completely, mastering and recording make the biggest difference in quality.

I will try to decode the manual regarding equalization in the next days. It seems it could make the difference having to choose between Sennheiser 800 and 800s irrelevant.

I have the ADI-2 on my crowded desk along with a Chord Mojo. A pair of Sennheiser HD 25 is here because it is small and does not object to being bashed around. I have a pair of Fostex TR-X00 on the way and I will see if it is a good pairing with the RME.

Soon I hope to add the Mytek Brooklyn DAC+ and another pair of headphones to the stable. And it should be enough for a while!

  • Registered: 2019-01-07
  • Posts: 1,462

Re: Hello from Czech Republic!

Why so many DACs?   You only need the RME.   It's the Most Capable device.  Period.  Trust that you will enjoy the RME more than any other.

Curt

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic AKM4490 Edition"
Cables:  Red, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes

23 Reply by tubeaudio (edited by tubeaudio 2019-12-01 11:15:41)

  • Registered: 2019-11-21
  • Posts: 38

Re: Hello from Czech Republic!

Curt962 wrote:

Why so many DACs?

big_smile

Really, I am only limited by money and number of USB ports wink

  • Registered: 2019-01-07
  • Posts: 1,462

Re: Hello from Czech Republic!

Wow.  Not enough USB Ports.   Manoman....that's Tragic. 

First World Problems...  smile:):):)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bwvlbJ0h35A

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic AKM4490 Edition"
Cables:  Red, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes