Topic: Rme adi 2 pro fs/ dac preamp high pass filter

Good morning everyone,
I am a very happy owner of this tremendous music machine!
however I would ask you for a little support .. can I use the RME as a preamp, Dac  and at the same time as a high pass  CROSSOVER FILTER?
I try to explain myself better ..: I have a pair of vandersteen speakers that require the use of 2 high pass filters between preamp and power amp (M5-HP Vandersteen hi pass filter) and their configuration is -3db at 100Hz 6db for octaves (First order). I wish I could only use rme as dac preamp and high pass filter. If it is possible Can you explain me how to set the filter on the rme?
Thank you very much and sorry for my bad english .. smile

2

Re: Rme adi 2 pro fs/ dac preamp high pass filter

Is that one filter per channel? Or two in series?

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: Rme adi 2 pro fs/ dac preamp high pass filter

originally Vandersteen has provided 1 filter box per channel
tks a lot
Kris

Re: Rme adi 2 pro fs/ dac preamp high pass filter

Hallo Kris!

It seems the ADI-2Pro could be configured in the manner you wish.   Perhaps good if you could give us a bit of overview of your intentions.    It seems that you are integrating a Subwoofer with your Vandersteens, and with a bit more information, I'm certain we can offer some help.   

Best,

Curt

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic AKM4490 Edition"
Cables:  Red, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes

Re: Rme adi 2 pro fs/ dac preamp high pass filter

Hello Curt, nice to meet you!
Vandersteen system is a little bit complicated, I try to explain:
The speaker ( Vandersteen Quatro) is originally equipped with 2 high pass crossover (1 for each channel) because it integrates 2 active subwoofer inside the 2 cabinet.
This 2 High Pass Filter ( Vandersteen crossover M5-HP) are specifically designed and implemented between the preamp and amplifier to roll of frequencies below 100 Hz ( -3db at 100Hz 6db for octaves / First order), which are passed to the QUATRO model series speakers and reconstructed in the amplifier powering the bass driver.
I would like to understand if i could eliminate the preamplifier and the 2 high-pass crossovers in order to simplify the signal path as much as possible, using only RME Adi 2 pro Fs.
thanks for your attention Curt

Kris

Re: Rme adi 2 pro fs/ dac preamp high pass filter

Kris, I think the Short Answer is Yes.   I'm an ADI-2DAC user, so just to be 100% certain, let's get confirmation from MC, or another ADI2 Pro user.   

Best,

Curt

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic AKM4490 Edition"
Cables:  Red, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes

7

Re: Rme adi 2 pro fs/ dac preamp high pass filter

The High Pass Filter setting is not critical, as you will notice yourself when playing around with the ADI filters. Still I don't get how this should work. If you activate the High Pass filter in the ADI, how does the subwoofer still get the full audio range?

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: Rme adi 2 pro fs/ dac preamp high pass filter

I'm trying to transmit the operating scheme of the speaker with the relative high pass filter connected before the amplifier, in the hope it could be fully understood the system I am using, but I can't attach images .. how can I do?
tks
Kris

9

Re: Rme adi 2 pro fs/ dac preamp high pass filter

The DAC has ONE stereo output. If you activate its high pass filter it will be there for both the satellite (or mid/Tweeter part via amp) as well as for the subwoofer (with its own amp).

With the Pro such a setup is possible by using the front output 3/4 for the subwoofer (or the XLR rear - whatver you like) The high pass can be inserted in either path, and volume can be adjusted ganged, means simultaneously for 1/2 and 3/4.

Still this kind of X-over operation is not what the ADI has been designed for. For example to then use a headphone with individual settings you have to load a different Setup. Ganging might break and suddenly you adjust only top or woofer. So it is possible but we don't encourage such applications. Using the oriignal filters in front of the amp is 100% reliable - I would stay with that.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: Rme adi 2 pro fs/ dac preamp high pass filter

IMHO this is easily done, after reading at Vanderhulst. Just set the filter as needed, output of ADI to amp and connect speakers and sub to amp. @MC, I understand it like the sub is connected after the power amp so only one stereo pair is needed to the amp.
If doing it this way makes an audible difference and for the better is another question..

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
Babyface pro fs, HDSP9652+ADI-8AE, HDSP9632

Re: Rme adi 2 pro fs/ dac preamp high pass filter

the system provided by the manufacturer works this way:

My speaker uses a unique crossover and sub-
woofer amplification configuration to provide the true
benefits of bi-amplification and reduce the current de-
mands on the main amplifier. By inserting a passive high-
pass crossover between the preamplifier and the main
amplifier then connecting the Model Quatro like conven-
tional bi-wired speakers, the main amplifier remains in the
signal path to the subwoofer, but its current demands are
reduced. This insures sonic continuity as the main ampli-
fier's characteristics that are evident through the upper fre-
quencies are maintained to the deepest bass, but with the
power and control of the Model Quatro internal 250 watt
amplifier.
The M5-HP is the high pass crossover for the mid-bass
driver and must be installed in the system between the pre-
amplifier and power amplifier before the Model Quatro are
used. Properly configured to match the
input impedance of the amplifier, the M5-HP will roll off
the low frequencies going to the amplifier so that they are
-3db at 100Hz referenced to 1kHz. To compensate for the
low-frequency roll-off induced by the crossover, the re-
sponse of the Model quatro’s amplifier is contoured to re-
store the low frequencies to the proper level as shown in the
illustrations to the left. The M5-HP is a totally mono de-
sign, two are required for a stereo pair of speakers.

Re: Rme adi 2 pro fs/ dac preamp high pass filter

Kris,

Before this endeavor further takes on the Complexities of Interstellar Space Travel, let's just configure your Speakers/Amp/XO as designed, and retain ALL of the RMEs EQ abilities intact.    Try that out!!

Curt

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic AKM4490 Edition"
Cables:  Red, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes

13 (edited by mark2748 2019-12-11 20:36:23)

Re: Rme adi 2 pro fs/ dac preamp high pass filter

I think this Q/A from the Vandersteen site (https://www.vandersteen.com/support/faqs) supports the OPs description of his system and Vinark's comment above:

Q:
Why do 2Wq subwoofers connect to the speaker level signal rather than the line level signal like other subwoofers?

A:
The Vandersteen subwoofer interface is unique. A first-order, passive high-pass filter is placed in front of the main amplifier. The subwoofer samples the output from the filtered main amplifier and corrects for the roll-off that has been introduced. This is the only way to provide a true, first-order blend between the subwoofer and the main speakers that is transparent and seamless.

A passive high-pass filter is as transparent as the input coupling capacitor that is probably present in the amplifier already and may actually improve the sound of direct-coupled amplifiers that use servo circuits instead. Sampling the output of the main amplifier passes along to the subwoofer the sound and propagation speed of the amplifier that drives the main speakers for a seamless blend between the two.

It would be best to contact Vandersteen and confirm.

14 (edited by Curt962 2019-12-12 00:24:24)

Re: Rme adi 2 pro fs/ dac preamp high pass filter

They sure do make that "First Order Filter" sound impressive. smile      That's one of the more complex, colorful descriptions you'll see of a simple capacitor wired in series.

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Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic AKM4490 Edition"
Cables:  Red, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes