1 Topic by jouleskey (edited by jouleskey 2020-01-17 00:44:20)

  • Registered: 2020-01-17
  • Posts: 7

Topic: New build FireWire issues

This is my first post here.

I'm a Fireface 800 user and have been using it flawlessly for over 15 years in Windows with Cubase and loads of vst's, which is getting more and more heavy in the system
Just upgraded my PC Windows 10 machine to an AMD Ryzen 9 3950x chip on an Asus Prime x570 Pro mother board and 16gbx 2 Vengeance DDR4 3600's. Went for the board with an assumption that I could just stick my FireWire PSI in with ease, though discovered that I needed to get a PSIe card instead, So, over the last week was assuming the board was faulty as the system wouldn't boot when trying various Texas Instruments cards, which one by one I sent back as faulty.
Actually, tried these cards also in my old machine, which is a Sandybridge 2600k chip and these didn't work in there either. Seems that Windows has killed off any recognition for PCIe FireWire and also stopped legacy drivers from being recognised..
As for my new machine, have simply given up on the PCIe cards attempt as it would never boot up with one in
So, have since decided to go with the USB C output into a Thunderbolt 3 to Thunderbot2 to Firewire 400 to 800 to the RME Fireface 800.

Cables arriving next week.

Wondering if there will be any more surprises?
For anyone else that's done this, what drivers should I use?
Will this work as well as the Firewire800 plugged into the old system with similar or worst buffer sizes and dropouts? Will it be as solid? Hoping better because of the new system, though am suspicious without using a FireWire interface.

Thanks

  • ramses
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Re: New build FireWire issues

https://www.studio1productions.com/Arti … wire-1.htm

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13
  • Registered: 2020-01-17
  • Posts: 7

Re: New build FireWire issues

The issue with this brand new system is that when any FireWire card is installed, the system will not boot. Chip compatibility is the issue here and not a drive issue.
The card is also plug and play, have plugged it in whilst in Windows and it does not appear in device manager and the legacy drivers at all.

4 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2020-01-17 09:16:42)

  • ramses
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Re: New build FireWire issues

Sorry for the issues that you have.

When reading this...

> Went for the board with an assumption that I could just stick my FireWire PSI in with ease,
> though discovered that I needed to get a PSIe card instead

Sorry, I do not want to sound harsh or super sly in any way, but .. I can only strongly recommend to involve people with IT knowledge when upgrading systems, if you do not even know the difference between PCI and PCIe (this is really no rocket science).

PCI is meanwhile an old technology without support from Microsoft in Win10 and the number of mainboard which have one or two PCI sockets for backward compatibility with ancient HW are at or very close to zero.

If you say that you have been using your equipment for 15 years, then the hardware is more than written off, and it also shows once again how sustainable the purchase of RME products is, because even after this long time these devices are still supplied with driver updates by RME.

On the other hand, after such a long time I would recommend to slowly think about a product upgrade and switch to current technologies that are well supported by Windows 10 (-> PCIe, USB, Thunderbolt). Using old technologies like especially Firewire is a Vabanque game. Nobody can guarantee if and how long Windows 10 will support it. You need to install legacy drivers from internet from which you do not know, how long they will still work in Win10 and without any side effect.

If you would invest in an up-to-date recording interface now, then apart from more modern converters with lower latency, improvements in SNR would also have some additional advantages depending on the model, which would support you in your work.

There are certainly still people who would like to buy an old FF800 to get RME hardware at a lower price. In this respect, it will support you to finance the new device.

I know there are possibilities like i.e. using PCI to PCIe adapters and what not, but if you have no bigger affinity to IT, then I can only recommend you to be pragmatic and go for a solid solution which is easier for you to operate and maintain.
Especially if you recap that Microsoft implements a lot of changes into Win10 regulary. Win10 has a higher upgrade dynamic (and in shorter intervals) compared to XP and Windows 7.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

5 Reply by jouleskey (edited by jouleskey 2020-01-17 09:35:41)

  • Registered: 2020-01-17
  • Posts: 7

Re: New build FireWire issues

Well, you live and learn and indeed learnt that PCI is no longer supported and PCIe and modern HW has issues with FW. Also, couldn't remember what slot it was in..
Still wondering if the motherboard has an issue however.
I prefer to build my own to learn and be able to fix anything if there's an issue, making it cost effectively.
I've an old USB 2 Edirol lying around that'll keep me going at least for a little while for small projects with vocals and mixing whilst looking into exchanging the FW800 for an up to date card, rather than going through a bunch of convertors. Convertors I think seem like they'll run into issues at some point with this old hardware.

On the other hand, thinking that maybe I could keep the FW800 and use it as an ADAT card. It's there an easy and cost effective way as am all ears

  • ramses
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Re: New build FireWire issues

A firewire PCIe card with a good TI chipset is i.e. this one here:
https://www.heise.de/preisvergleich/exs … 75938.html

You could also try two things on your system:
- try different PCIe sockets with a PCIe firewire card
- BIOS upgrade

You can also use PCIe sockets which have more PCIe lanes connected than one.
But beware, if you intend to use the big x16 PCIe sockets.... It can in some cases steal 8 PCIe lanes from your primary graphic adapter, this depends on the design / capabilities of your mainboard. Check afterwards, that your main graphic card (if its not an internal one in the CPU) still runs with x16 (16 PCIe lanes connected to it). Some HW designs/components can reroute PCIe lanes dynamically from one to another PCIe socket.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13
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Re: New build FireWire issues

https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.ph … 44#p123244

  • vinark
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Re: New build FireWire issues

AFAIK there is a compatibility issue with the new AMD chipset and PCIe. Nothing to do with firewire per se. Hope for you a bios update will fix it.

Vincent, Amsterdam
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Babyface pro fs, HDSP9652+ADI-8AE, HDSP9632
  • Registered: 2008-01-01
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Re: New build FireWire issues

Try switching between CPU and chipset based PCIe slots. Usually at least the upper two x16 PCIe slots are CPU connected.

10 Reply by MC

  • MC
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Re: New build FireWire issues

jouleskey wrote:

So, have since decided to go with the USB C output into a Thunderbolt 3 to Thunderbot2 to Firewire 400 to 800 to the RME Fireface 800.

Cables arriving next week.

You wasted some money here. USB-C is the name of the socket/connector, and has no (zero) relation to the supported formats. That board does not have Thunderbolt, so your adapters will not work.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

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