1 (edited by Veiozar 2020-02-25 01:20:24)

Topic: RME ADI-2 PRO FS: shrieking noise + distorted sound during playback

Hello everyone & apologies in advance for the long read but please bear with me.

A couple of months back I bought a RME ADI-2 PRO FS from an authorized local dealer.
I've been using it ever since.

I didn't encounter any problems until 2 days ago when I couldn't help notice the appearance of random pops & clicks in some tracks I am very accustomed with, and knew without shadow of a doubt that those pops & clicks shouldn't be there.

Intrigued, I initially thought it was me, being tired or something similar.
The phenomenon repeated itself so often that I couldn't validate that hypothesis anymore and started researching into the issue.

So I started by narrowing the playlist significantly, allowing only those tracks that seemed to me to generate the most pops & clicks.
All of a sudden, the rather annoying pops & clicks "evolved" into massive distortion of sound accompanied by a... shrieking noise.

At first I couldn't believe this was actually happening since I never experienced anything remotely similar with any equipment I had used before.
Since this type of occurrence became rather the norm than the exception in the past 48 hours, I filmed 5 such events.
Since there is only one link allowed, I will post the 5th only in this post.

5. Clip #5
At 4m:33s I refresh the link and audio comes back to normal.

Excuse the poor quality, I used a mobile phone.
I believe the most suggestive clips are #1, #3 & #5. (nvm, I can only post 1 url per post)

My setup:

17'' laptop HP ZBook G2
Windows 10 Pro, v1903 (build 18362.476)
RME ADI-2 PRO FS (firmware USB 213@DSP 97, driver 0.9685@25.06.2019)
RME ADI-2 PRO FS used exclusively in USB mode
DIGICheck installed and functioning

My old DAC/Amplifier combo OPPO HA-1


What I have tried already and didn't work:

1. Tried to find some tracks that would easily reproduce the shrieking noise & distorted sound.
Those tracks are DARKTHRONE: Boreal Fiends & Snø Og Granskog.
2. Checked if the physical audio files are damaged or the HDD/SSD has issues.
None found.
3. Changed player in which those tracks are being played.
Changed from Groove to Foobar2000 with and without ASIO plugin.

4. Tried eliminating the physical file part altogether by playing the same 2 tracks in a streaming service.
Deezer playing via Chrome browser manifests the same issue.

5. Noticing the above, tried YouTube and observed the problem persists (see Clip #5).

6. Tried using Microsoft Edge instead of Chrome and Netflix instead of YouTube.

7. Changed headphones from Focal Clear Pro -> Sennheiser HD 800s -> Sennheiser HD 650 -> Sennheiser HD 600.
All headphones are affected.

8. Changed sample rate in MADIface from 44.1 to 48.
9. Unplugged the left and the right headphone in order to properly detect if both are affected. They are. On all aforementioned headphones. (Clip #5)
10. Unplugged the headphone and plugged it back in the same slot or the other front slot (3/4 and 1/2). Dual Phones option turned on. (Clip #5)
11. Dual Phones option turned off. Used only 3/4 slot on all aforementioned headphones.
12. Changed USB ports.
13. Changed USB cables. Actually swapped them between RME and OPPO.
14. Restarted Windows smile


What I have tried and worked:

1. Turned off & on RME ADI-2 PRO FS via button. Works every time.
2. Changed audio track or browse within the current track. Works intermittently independently of player used, be it Groove, Foobar2000, Windows Media Player or some streamer service in Chrome or Edge.
3. Waited for some time, seconds or minutes without turning the RME unit off. Works intermittently.
4. Used OPPO HA-1 with both USB cables and all headphones smile

I observed the MADIface for USB diagnosis and not one single time an error was reported.
I also tried observing DIGIcheck for any change in the spectral analysis when the noise occurred.
Couldn't notice anything out of order but I can easily record the screen when that happens and submit it to your analysis.


I seem to be running out of options.
Any help or suggestion is appreciated.

Thank you kindly.

2

Re: RME ADI-2 PRO FS: shrieking noise + distorted sound during playback

Is the Buffer Size in the Settings dialog set to 128 or 256 samples? Try both.

Use Latency Mon from Resplendence to check your computer.

The 'shrieking' sound is buffers no longer synced. That happens on the application side (so not visible as error in the USB diagnosis). Stop/start of playback should already fix that (at least with ASIO).

As you didn't have this problem before something on your computer must have changed and causes worse performance than before.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

3 (edited by Veiozar 2020-02-25 13:10:46)

Re: RME ADI-2 PRO FS: shrieking noise + distorted sound during playback

Thank you for your answer Matthias,

Latency Mon report found here.
Chrome with 40+ tabs, not sure if this affects anything.

Internet connection is wireless.
I can do cable but it would be cumbersome, would it improve things on the latency side?


Do you happen to know why isn't the other DAC/AMP (OPPA HA-1) affected by whatever changed in the computer.
Using the OPPO,  all apps, music players or browsers seem to have no difficulty in sound playback.

neutral

4

Re: RME ADI-2 PRO FS: shrieking noise + distorted sound during playback

That's the worst test result I have ever seen. But please do it again without any app or program running.

The Oppo uses much larger buffers (latency) and might not be affected then. Still the problem here is the computer, this needs to be fixed.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: RME ADI-2 PRO FS: shrieking noise + distorted sound during playback

Veiozar wrote:

Chrome with 40+ tabs, not sure if this affects anything.

It surely does not help in this situation. Each tab runs one or more process(es). Improvement with Chrome closed?

Re: RME ADI-2 PRO FS: shrieking noise + distorted sound during playback

Ifi dc purifier

7 (edited by N00b 2020-02-25 18:03:21)

Re: RME ADI-2 PRO FS: shrieking noise + distorted sound during playback

ItchyEars wrote:

Ifi dc purifier

Latency has nothing to do with that...
And the RME is not powered by USB FYI...

And even if it was:
[...]
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/foru … iew.10786/

[...]
Conclusions
As electronics and audio theory would tell us, a device like iPurifier does nothing useful for the sound you hear. Marketing material talks about what the device does as far as filtering. But nothing is shown as far as the measured impact on the output of an audio device. And rightfully so because there likely isn't any improvement.

Of course, if you bought this device and plugged it, you immediately hear better bass, more air, more microdynamics and resolution. All of that happens not because the device made these changes, but because when you focus on what a device does, you listen differently. When the sound waves coming out of an audio device has not changed, the only thing that must have, is your perception.

Needless to say, you should not waste your money on such tweaks. You can get a great DAC for the same price as this dongle that doesn't care about USB power quality.

At the risk of stating the obvious, I can not recommend the ifi DC iPurifier. If you have to throw away your money, give it to a needed charity.

ADI-2 DAC (with stock PSU) - Neumann KH 310 A monitors - Cheap USB and XLR cables

8 (edited by Veiozar 2020-02-25 20:45:09)

Re: RME ADI-2 PRO FS: shrieking noise + distorted sound during playback

Thank you everyone for chipping into the conversation.

I really hope that with your help I will be able to fix this because, honestly, I absolutely love this device.

So far, with the information gathered from you, I'm inclined to believe there's nothing wrong with RME but more so with my laptop and/or operating system.
Am I mistaken?

Here is the Latency Mon situation after reboot and ~7 hours of... basically nothing.
Except programs and services found in Startup.
Left the computer running after it rebooted and then left the house so I wouldn't be tempted to tinker around. smile

I owed Matthias an answer to his original question about sample size.
Its default seems to be 512?
I'm currently running Foobar2000 (with ASIO) and it shows 512 Samples, 0 USB errors and 44.1khz.

I would attach an image of the MADIface but I can't put a 2nd link tongue

I will change the sample rate, as Matthias has suggested and will report back.

Re: RME ADI-2 PRO FS: shrieking noise + distorted sound during playback

A very low ASIO buffer size is only needed in a low latency scenario which is not applicable for your use case here.

Choose more buffers to have the safety, that your PC can process audio in time. Even if
- he is busy (high CPU load)
- potentially bad drivers are installed, which occupy CPU cores for too long
- etc

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: RME ADI-2 PRO FS: shrieking noise + distorted sound during playback

Hello ramses,

I just changed the Buffer Size (Latency) in MADIface from 512 to 256, started Chrome with 2 tabs  (this being one of them) and Foobar2000 (ASIO enabled) with those 2 Darkthrone tracks in loop.

I'm not sure I got your suggestion right so please be so kind as to clarify.
Are you suggesting to go above 512 samples, not below as Matthias suggested?
Or just to play around with samples, above and below the default (?) 512 to see what's right for this computer?

11 (edited by Veiozar 2020-02-25 20:59:55)

Re: RME ADI-2 PRO FS: shrieking noise + distorted sound during playback

Here is the Drivers tab in Latency Mon, now with the situation described in the previous post.

The nVidia Driver seems to be the culprit?

Re: RME ADI-2 PRO FS: shrieking noise + distorted sound during playback

Better sort for Highest execution time. Its not the amount of DPC its more the time that it takes to execute the DPC.
During that time the CPU core is blocked by this low level routine which can not be interrupted by the task scheduler.
If there is an audio thread on this CPU, then it waits for the core to become available. This results in audio drops.
2 requirements
a) more efficient drivers (solve root cause)
b) higher ASIO buffer sizes (try to mitigate the issue)

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: RME ADI-2 PRO FS: shrieking noise + distorted sound during playback

I get the issue when the Dac is turned on before the computer is, or when the computer is turned off/on when the Dac is still on. I always turn the computer on first, then the Dac. If I turn the PC off, I turn the Dac off also.

14 (edited by Veiozar 2020-02-25 22:34:25)

Re: RME ADI-2 PRO FS: shrieking noise + distorted sound during playback

ramses wrote:

Better sort for Highest execution time. Its not the amount of DPC its more the time that it takes to execute the DPC.
...
2 requirements
a) more efficient drivers (solve root cause)
b) higher ASIO buffer sizes (try to mitigate the issue)

Very useful input indeed ramses, thank you.

The root problem remains the computer, either on the hardware part (which would be the most unfortunate case) or the software part (drivers, OS, certain programs badly interacting with others etc).

The diagnosis so far, as suggested by Latency Mon in my rather limited understanding, are the drivers.
I don't, yet, have serious reasons to believe internal hardware in the laptop is malfunctioning.

I have already proceeded in tinkering with 2 particular drivers:

1. Wireless network card drivers (Intel Dual Band Wireless-N 7260)
2. the nVidia drivers (nVidia Quadro K1100M)

1. Rolled back the official latest Intel drivers from version v18.33.71.1@21.MAY.2019 to the default Windows 10 driver v17.15.0.5@22.FEB.2015
Upon restart, the immediate effect is positive and noticeable, as observed here.

Execution time for ndis.sys used to be ~14ms and go up to ~31ms as observed in the first screenshot from Latency Mon I posted earlier.
Now it's ~1.6.

2. Used Display Driver Uninstaller (DDU) to uninstall the nVidia driver and update it to the latest, v426.32.
Driver only installed this time, not the other stuff the nVidia driver package suggests.
Not much of an improvement here, some people suggest that an older driver, around version 390 would improve some things.

Will test and report back.

Re: RME ADI-2 PRO FS: shrieking noise + distorted sound during playback

joachim.herbert wrote:
Veiozar wrote:

Chrome with 40+ tabs, not sure if this affects anything.

It surely does not help in this situation. Each tab runs one or more process(es). Improvement with Chrome closed?

I can confirm it has a negative impact.

If this strictly because of my hardware or its drivers, I'm undecided yet.
I believe it's a combination of both.

I'm currently working on improving the software part of it and I can safely say there's an improvement with the wireless card driver rollback to its Windows 10 native version.

16 (edited by Curt962 2020-02-26 01:29:32)

Re: RME ADI-2 PRO FS: shrieking noise + distorted sound during playback

Veiozar,

I've just been following along quietly.  We're all disappointed when a User has difficulties.   However, You did some good diagnostic work before posting!  This no doubt helped the "Power Duo" of Matthias, and Ramses to get involved, and help navigate you toward a solution.   You're getting closer!   Hang in there Man.  The Solution is close at hand!

Best to You,

Curt

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic AKM4490 Edition"
Cables:  Red, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes

17

Re: RME ADI-2 PRO FS: shrieking noise + distorted sound during playback

As for buffer size: in WDM operation the buffer size might cause freaky side effects when set below 128 or above 256 samples. It is easy to test this, of course, just takes a few WDM playbacks with all buffer sizes tried. And it depends on the used WDM playback device and driver.

In this case: good job! Situation has already improved a lot.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

18 (edited by Veiozar 2020-02-26 04:10:22)

Re: RME ADI-2 PRO FS: shrieking noise + distorted sound during playback

Curt962 wrote:

Veiozar,

I've just been following along quietly. 
...
You're getting closer!   Hang in there Man! 

Best to You,

Curt

Curt962,

welcome to the conversation & thank for your kind words.

Very much appreciated, just like the prompt interventions from Matthias, ramses and the others, that already proved beneficial to my conundrum.

This ADI-2 PRO FS is my first ever RME product purchase and I did so with massive confidence.

Confidence built on several factors.
One of them being this very forum and noticing how yourself, ramses, Matthias and I'm sure others I forget right now get involved in each and every question a RME user or a potential buyer has.
Your guys' presence was also felt on other fora too, with or without an "audiophile" scent, combating that particular smell with science & facts rather than with feelings and marketing splendor talk.

Kudos to you all for that kind of customer or potential customer support!



But I digress. smile
Back to the issue in question, I should maybe offer some context for those who will read this in the future and may or may not encounter what I did.

... in this regard I started writing an unnaturally long post which I believe can be compressed into the following ideas:


1. This particular computer/laptop that I've been using the ADI-2 PRO FS on is 5+ years old and has had its motherboards replaced (in an authorized HP dealer), albeit more likely with a refurbished component.
So issues of various nature are to be present, I just wasn't careful enough to take this fact into consideration this time.

e.g.
I forgot disabling the on board "Realtek High-Definition Audio" from BIOS, among others, for example.
And I also had its drivers & software package installed.
That stuff sure was indispensable with RME ADI-2 PRO FS or even OPPO HA-1 around, LOL.

Yes, having it enabled for no reason did negatively impact things.

It is not the only sub-component that one can disable via BIOS or operating system to help decongest things on an older computer.
This varies from user to user and can range from Bluetooth or Webcam to LAN Network Card.


2. I've always had my suspicions about this particular HP model's WiFi Network Card.
More so after motherboard replacement.

ndis.sys (Network Driver) seems to be the main culprit indicated by Latency Mon.

Wdf01000.sys seems to be the 2nd one but isn't this in strict relation with each and every other driver out there in the operating system, including the Network Driver?
Please correct me if I'm wrong.


3. I've been listening to the same 2 tracks in loop via Groove player (the exact "setup" that helped me reproduce the issue ~3 days ago) for more ~4 hours now and I heard no click, pop, distortion or shrieking sound whatsoever.
With Chrome and 40+ tabs open.
In the past ~72 hours distortion would make itself violently present in max 3-4 loops.

This has been obtained via following Matthias' recommendation of selecting 256 samples in MADIface, installing Latency Mon and following ramses' indications.

... thus disabling more things I don't need in BIOS, operating system, changing driver versions of WiFi Network Card and nVidia Video Card while monitoring the situation in Latency Mon with every change I made.

This kind of tweaking until Latency Mon's graphs are green only is work in progress.
Also, this current Latency Mon status is far from perfect but it eliminated 100% of the issues I had.

Will report back if significant findings are... well, found. smile


4.The issues described in the initial post were caused by my aging laptop and improperly managed BIOS and/or operating system.

Matthias was correct in his diagnosis:

MC wrote:

The 'shrieking' sound is buffers no longer synced. That happens on the application side (so not visible as error in the USB diagnosis).


In light of recent discoveries, I am exceptionallly happy to report that my unit of RME ADI-2 PRO FS is NOT faulty.


P.S.

For the sake of potential future users experiencing the same kind of dilemmas and reading this,  supplementary information or suggestions are more than welcome.

19

Re: RME ADI-2 PRO FS: shrieking noise + distorted sound during playback

For the sake of completeness: I myself use Realtek as standard sound card on three of my computers (one desktop, two laptops), and neither them being enabled or having their drivers installed causes any problem. But yes, some users reported disabling the onboard sound can improve things.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME