1 Topic by bossmanottoman (edited by bossmanottoman 2020-04-18 06:16:40)

  • Registered: 2018-02-04
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Topic: Will there be MAdiface PRo FS? & 12mic Questions

few Newbie question please Explain in layman terms!

1) will there be Madiface Pro FS soon?

2) i dont know much about network based systems. can you use the New M1610 pro or 12mic, as an extension to the Madiface Pro or UFX+?

3) does the 12mic has the same converters as the m1610 pro? or may be slightly better?

4) if needed? the 12mic is also capable of working as 12line inputs as converters only?

UFX+ is superb. but you can get better converters with madiface pro connected to M1610 or 12mic. am i right on this?

2 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2020-04-18 10:36:29)

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Re: Will there be MAdiface PRo FS? & 12mic Questions

to 1) RME announces new products when the time is right, but not earlier for market strategic reasons.
If there are new products, then you can find information on the official RME website.
Typical times for product announcements are during/around the major events: NAMM show and Musikmesse Frankfurt.

to 2) yes. The products have a free expansion slot which you can equip with a SFP fiber module
a) which allow the devices to be used in a MADI setup or
b) where you can reuse devices with MADI support and attach them to the M1610 Pro / Mic 12 in an AVB setup

If I remember right RME said that they will deliver details about what SFP to use at a later time.

You will also need additional/different fiber cables to connect devices with:
- different plugs (-> LC / SC), i.e UFX+ to M1610 Pro/12MIC
- same plugs ( -> SC / SC), between M1610 Pro/12MIC

In terms of cable type, OM3 and OM4 multimode fiber cables can be used.
MADI doesn't have the high transfer speeds compared to computer networks, therefore OM3 for MADI is fully sufficient.
RME supports cable length between each MADI device on a MADI bus/ring of up to 2km with OM3.

But if you have a mixed network for audio and computer network with structured cabling in between and if you build it up right now, then its worth to think about to introduce OM4 as cabling standard, because for computer networks the supported cable lengths at 10 Gbps network speeds are not so high compared to MADI.

Nowadays 10Gbit networks become slowly affordable and if I would be about to buy a NAS device for backup purposes, then I would get one with one or two 10G adapters according to the amount of data that I have already....
For 10 Gbps computer networks the supported cable lengths are for:
- OM3: 300m
- OM4: 550m
which could makes a difference when implementing structured cabling in a larger building.

Avoild mixing OM3 and OM4 in one signal path, because they have different core diameters and by this you get signal loss.
https://www.flukenetworks.com/blog/cabl … iber-types

Deciding for one optical cable standard at your side might make things easier for now and the future and the already purchased cables can be used in a more flexible way in both areas: audio and computer networks.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

3 Reply by bossmanottoman (edited by bossmanottoman 2020-04-19 03:08:33)

  • Registered: 2018-02-04
  • Posts: 35

Re: Will there be MAdiface PRo FS? & 12mic Questions

ramses wrote:

to 1) RME announces new products when the time is right, but not earlier for market strategic reasons.
If there are new products, then you can find information on the official RME website.
Typical times for product announcements are during/around the major events: NAMM show and Musikmesse Frankfurt.

to 2) yes. The products have a free expansion slot which you can equip with a SFP fiber module
a) which allow the devices to be used in a MADI setup or
b) where you can reuse devices with MADI support and attach them to the M1610 Pro / Mic 12 in an AVB setup

If I remember right RME said that they will deliver details about what SFP to use at a later time.

You will also need additional/different fiber cables to connect devices with:
- different plugs (-> LC / SC), i.e UFX+ to M1610 Pro/12MIC
- same plugs ( -> SC / SC), between M1610 Pro/12MIC

In terms of cable type, OM3 and OM4 multimode fiber cables can be used.
MADI doesn't have the high transfer speeds compared to computer networks, therefore OM3 for MADI is fully sufficient.
RME supports cable length between each MADI device on a MADI bus/ring of up to 2km with OM3.

But if you have a mixed network for audio and computer network with structured cabling in between and if you build it up right now, then its worth to think about to introduce OM4 as cabling standard, because for computer networks the supported cable lengths at 10 Gbps network speeds are not so high compared to MADI.

Nowadays 10Gbit networks become slowly affordable and if I would be about to buy a NAS device for backup purposes, then I would get one with one or two 10G adapters according to the amount of data that I have already....
For 10 Gbps computer networks the supported cable lengths are for:
- OM3: 300m
- OM4: 550m
which could makes a difference when implementing structured cabling in a larger building.

Avoild mixing OM3 and OM4 in one signal path, because they have different core diameters and by this you get signal loss.
https://www.flukenetworks.com/blog/cabl … iber-types

Deciding for one optical cable standard at your side might make things easier for now and the future and the already purchased cables can be used in a more flexible way in both areas: audio and computer networks.


i think i may grab the 12mic and stick with UFX+ instead of any future madiface pro.

so does the SPF fiber comes stock in that free expansion slot? or it has to be ordered when ordering 12mic?

if not it it something the user has to install himself? im very clueless about this stuff and technology, not a technical person

I dont have any AVB stuff nor i know how to use it, i wont be doing is in any network. I just plan to use it through MADI with UFX+I have 6 stereo synths. that needs a DI which requires phantom into the 12mic..

so for UFX+ with 12 mic. which fiber cables i need?
LC/SC?? can you link me to show which one is the right cables?

Can you tell me what is this OM3 and OM4? in which situation would i need one or the other? All i need is madi transfer.

4 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2020-04-19 03:02:15)

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Re: Will there be MAdiface PRo FS? & 12mic Questions

OM3 and OM4 are different cable standards for multimode fiber cables.
They have a different fiber core and support simply different cable lengths at different network speeds.
For audio / MADI it doesn't matter, both standards will deliver to you up to 2km between two devices.
But if you would like to use such cable also for computer networks, then OM4 will support longer distances compared to OM3.

How many LC/LC or SC/LC cables you need depends on the number of devices which you want to connect.

Easy example:
1x UFX+, 1x 12Mic, 1x M1610 Pro

UFX+ LC----->SC 12Mic SC------->SC M1610 Pro
LC<-------------------------------------SC

You need two SC/LC (between UFX+/12Mic and M1610 Pro/UFX+) and one SC/SC cable (between 12Mic and M1610 Pro).

It can be the case that RME will not ship a SFP module together with 12Mic and M1610 Pro, because MADI is an option.
But whether you get a SFP from RME or 3rd party doesn't matter much.
Only the firmware of the SFPs should not be too special. I assume that RME will mention/list compatible ones.

Example for an OM3 SC/SC patch cable 1m https://www.reichelt.de/simplex-lwl-pat … &nbc=1
Example for an OM3 SC/LC patch cable 1m https://www.reichelt.de/simplex-lwl-pat … &nbc=1
Example for an OM3 LC/LC patch cable 1m https://www.reichelt.de/simplex-lwl-pat … &nbc=1

Also available as duplex cables.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

5 Reply by bossmanottoman (edited by bossmanottoman 2020-04-19 03:22:46)

  • Registered: 2018-02-04
  • Posts: 35

Re: Will there be MAdiface PRo FS? & 12mic Questions

ramses wrote:

OM3 and OM4 are different cable standards for multimode fiber cables.
They have a different fiber core and support simply different cable lengths at different network speeds.
For audio / MADI it doesn't matter, both standards will deliver to you up to 2km between two devices.
But if you would like to use such cable also for computer networks, then OM4 will support longer distances compared to OM3.

How many LC/LC or SC/LC cables you need depends on the number of devices which you want to connect.

Easy example:
1x UFX+, 1x 12Mic, 1x M1610 Pro

UFX+ LC----->SC 12Mic SC------->SC M1610 Pro
LC<-------------------------------------SC

You need two SC/LC (between UFX+/12Mic and M1610 Pro/UFX+) and one SC/SC cable (between 12Mic and M1610 Pro).

It can be the case that RME will not ship a SFP module together with 12Mic and M1610 Pro, because MADI is an option.
But whether you get a SFP from RME or 3rd party doesn't matter much.
Only the firmware of the SFPs should not be too special. I assume that RME will mention/list compatible ones.

Example for an OM3 SC/SC patch cable 1m https://www.reichelt.de/simplex-lwl-pat … &nbc=1
Example for an OM3 SC/LC patch cable 1m https://www.reichelt.de/simplex-lwl-pat … &nbc=1
Example for an OM3 LC/LC patch cable 1m https://www.reichelt.de/simplex-lwl-pat … &nbc=1

Also available as duplex cables.

hey man, thanks for the information. sounds like i would need an OM3.

i dont need the m1610.. i think 12mic will be sufficient, if im not mistaking i think it comes with the A2D if im not mistaking.. my 6x stereo synths (12inputs in total) will be balanced connected to 12mic from A DI and through MADI into UFX+

so UFX+ 12mic.. i need LC/SC ..  is this is the SFP module i need https://ferrofish-usa.com/sfp-madi-optical-module/ ??
btw, do you happen to know the standard costs for these SFP modules? approx 200-300?? i will google it myself

thanks again. the links were very helpful showing the Om3 LC/SC cables.

from your last statement, correct me if im wrong, by reading about my setup. i dont think i need Duplex..


one last question. i noticed on the 12mic unit,, it has SFP slot, and then Madi IN/Out.. do they both function as same? whats the advantage of the SFP

6 Reply by bossmanottoman (edited by bossmanottoman 2020-04-19 05:53:46)

  • Registered: 2018-02-04
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Re: Will there be MAdiface PRo FS? & 12mic Questions

and i can also connect through adat right? since ADAT does only 8 channels. would i need to use 2 ADAT ports on the UFX+?

that may save me the additional MADI SFP optical costs.

7 Reply by MC

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Re: Will there be MAdiface PRo FS? & 12mic Questions

SFP modules are between 10 and 20 Euros, and you can use any that matches 125 Mbps and  Multimode. For example:

https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B00H6B … &psc=1

MADI would be only one fiber per direction at all sample rates  (SMUX included) for all channels (still 16 at 192 kHz), and your ADAT/SPDIF ports stay free...

More here:

https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=29982

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

8 Reply by bossmanottoman (edited by bossmanottoman 2020-04-19 07:52:42)

  • Registered: 2018-02-04
  • Posts: 35

Re: Will there be MAdiface PRo FS? & 12mic Questions

MC wrote:

SFP modules are between 10 and 20 Euros, and you van use any that matches 125 Mbps and  Multimode. For example:

https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B00H6B … &psc=1

MADI would be only one fiber per direction at all sample rates  (SMUX included) for all channels (still 16 at 192 kHz), and your ADAT/SPDIF ports stay free...

More here:

https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=29982

theyre cheaper than i thought. im in USA. does you have to request RME to preinstall it on 12mic upon purchase?

or is that easy enough for the customer to do it?

does this looks ok https://ferrofish-usa.com/sfp-madi-optical-module/

9 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2020-04-19 10:42:51)

  • ramses
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Re: Will there be MAdiface PRo FS? & 12mic Questions

See also here my list in terms of cables / plugs / standards
https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.ph … 84#p149684

SFP modules are very easy in handling as they are hot pluggable, this means you can insert and remove them even when the device is powered on. This is at least standard with network devices from Cisco, but I would gues its the same for RME devices.

If you want to be extra cautious then it won't hurt to power-off the RME device while inserting or removing.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13
  • Registered: 2018-02-04
  • Posts: 35

Re: Will there be MAdiface PRo FS? & 12mic Questions

ramses wrote:

See also here my list in terms of cables / plugs / standards
https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.ph … 84#p149684

SFP modules are very easy in handling as they are hot pluggable, this means you can insert and remove them even when the device is powered on. This is at least standard with network devices from Cisco, but I would gues its the same for RME devices.

If you want to be extra cautious then it won't hurt to power-off the RME device while inserting or removing.


i will check out your posts. thanks.. i didnt know the installment process was as simple as inserting the SFP module from the opening. the cisco SFP should be complitable?

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Re: Will there be MAdiface PRo FS? & 12mic Questions

Cisco SFPs should be compatible but they are extremely expensive. There is no need to spend so much money for this.
Do not take SFPs with special firmware for Brocade SAN switches...

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13