Topic: Noise on RME ADI 2-DAC Fs - Usb

Hi everyone.

I purchased an RME ADI 2 DAC FS.

When connected via USB to my computer i am experiencing a noise in my monitors. Its like an intermitent computer noise.

The setup is as follow :

Computer (I5 32 go ram / mb asus h370 prime)
usb cable to the adi 2 dac
ADI 2 DAC fs
XLR balanced to Adam sub 7
ADAM SUB 7 --> Adam Monitors (F7)

Computer / Sub / monitors are grounded.

The noise occurs as soon as i plug the usb cable in the computer.
Maybe its a ground loops ?
I tried to plug equipment on different wall socket but the noise is still here.

Temporary solution I found is to use an optical converter to attack the RME. When I use SPDIF I dont Have any noise in my speakers. (im also limited to 192 khz files)

I would like to use usb.
I ordered an usb filter that I will receive next week to try to solve the problem.

Is there someone here who had experience with similar issue ?

best regards,

Benjamin

RME ADI 2 DAC Fs

2 (edited by vinark 2020-05-07 08:58:08)

Re: Noise on RME ADI 2-DAC Fs - Usb

If you remove ground from the adams (sub and speakers) it might be fixed. If yes you know it is a ground loop between the computers power supply and the speakers. PSU's can cause lots of noise on the ground line.
This is not a permanent solution, only for a quick test. Permanent  would be disconnecting pin 1 from the XLR.

Also if you disconnect the RME and Adams and use phones you will know if the output from the RME is clean.

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
Babyface pro fs, HDSP9652+ADI-8AE, HDSP9632

Re: Noise on RME ADI 2-DAC Fs - Usb

Hi Vinark,

Thanks for your answer.

with usb
No perceptible noise on headphones on the two front outputs even with adam connected.
Also No noise on the monitors its only on the sub.

In spdif
No noise at all.

I tried in usb with my laptop and no noise.


All this also suggest me to thinks that it's a ground loops between computer and sub.

question is how to solve it ... i dont feel very confortable to un-ground my speakers

I will update the topic when i receive the usb filter (hope it will solve my issue because otherwise i dont know what to do)

RME ADI 2 DAC Fs

Re: Noise on RME ADI 2-DAC Fs - Usb

If you are good with a soldering iron, disconnecting pin 1 in the XLR is 100% safe.
Also since there is a ground loop, disconnecting earth from the sub for a few seconds will not make it ungrounded (since it is connected through the loop) and will tell you 100% sure what the issue is. If you try this also disconnect the speakers from the sub since that is another possible ground loop.

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
Babyface pro fs, HDSP9652+ADI-8AE, HDSP9632

5 (edited by KaiS 2020-05-07 12:28:11)

Re: Noise on RME ADI 2-DAC Fs - Usb

Disconnecting USB Gound incorporates the risk to kill the USB chips (on both sides) by an ESD discharge, or simply by unplugging the analog lines that built the only path to safety earth.


With only it's PSU connected most ungrounded/unearthed devices like some laptop computers and even the RME ADI-2 has a floating voltage of half the line power (=110V in Europe), enough to kill I/O chips.

To say it clear, this voltage is not dangerous for people, because the current that can flow is extremely limited, it origins only from stray coupling in the PSU.


But the momentary charge can be enough to kill electronic chips.


A temporary solution would be placing all interconnect cables, digital-, analog- and even the power cables, as close together as possible and connect all powerlines into the same power strip.
This way the area a ground loop covers is minimized and it's effect is reduced.

6 (edited by vinark 2020-05-07 12:25:52)

Re: Noise on RME ADI 2-DAC Fs - Usb

KaiS wrote:

Disconnecting USB Gound incorporates the risk to kill the USB chips (on both sides) by an ESD discharge, or simply by unplugging the analog lines that built the only path to safety earth.


With only it's PSU connected most ungrounded/unearthed devices like some laptop computers and even the RME ADI-2 has a floating voltage of half the line power (=110V in Europe), enough to kill I/O chips.

To say it clear, this voltage is not dangerous for people, because the kind that can flow is extremely limited, it's origins only from straight coupling in the PSU.


But the momentary charge can be enough to kill electronic chips.

Agreed and MC has said the same. Firewire has that risc build in by how its pins can connect in the wrong order and yes I blew up an expensive firewire card in on of my audio interfaces (Tascam FW1804)

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
Babyface pro fs, HDSP9652+ADI-8AE, HDSP9632

Re: Noise on RME ADI 2-DAC Fs - Usb

Understood.

i'll stay with the optical input for now.

I tried to connect all powerlines into the same power strip. It didn't solved my issue.

i'll update next week when i'll receive the usb filter.

RME ADI 2 DAC Fs

8 (edited by KaiS 2020-05-07 13:09:01)

Re: Noise on RME ADI 2-DAC Fs - Usb

benjisun wrote:

Understood...

...I tried to connect all powerlines into the same power strip. It didn't solved my issue.

Maybe not completely.


Just plugging the power plugs into the same power strip usually does not help.


As mentioned:
All interconnect lines, even power, have to be routed into one strand, as close together as possible.
Think of it as one solid tree, possibly with branches (to the monitors), but no connections in between.

This sounds to be contrary to what's usually said: separate power and audio cables.
But, if the audio cables are well screened and signals are high, line level, this approach does not have any disadvantages and does always work.



For further reduction in hum (and noise) you can dial down the inputs on your ADAM monitors (if possible) and drive them hotter from the ADI-2.
If the monitors do not have an input level control or not enough down range there, you can use pads to reduce their sensitivity, look here:
https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=25399


This even makes better use of ADI-2's level capabilities.



PS:  I just had a look at the ADAM homepage.
There are no usable level controls, so (switchable) level pads are the best option.
You would place them at the input of the sub.

Re: Noise on RME ADI 2-DAC Fs - Usb

benjisun wrote:

Hi Vinark,

I'm ok with soldering and making cables.

.

If that works (disconnecting pin 1) it is a perfect permanent solution. Then no USB filter is needed. Simpler is better ;-)

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
Babyface pro fs, HDSP9652+ADI-8AE, HDSP9632

10 (edited by KaiS 2020-05-08 00:19:24)

Re: Noise on RME ADI 2-DAC Fs - Usb

vinark wrote:
benjisun wrote:

Hi Vinark,

I'm ok with soldering and making cables.

.

If that works (disconnecting pin 1) it is a perfect permanent solution. Then no USB filter is needed. Simpler is better ;-)

Not necessary - this solution is taxing the common mode rejection of a balanced input.

And breaking an interface chip is again easily possible.

If you go that route, coupling the screen via a 10nF ceramic capacitor paralleled with a 100 Ohms resitor, takes this load from the following input stage - and discharges voltages that can break a chip.

Re: Noise on RME ADI 2-DAC Fs - Usb

KaiS wrote:

And breaking an interface chip is again easily possible.

Glad I didnt broke mine by experimenting with the usb cable.

I will try making a custom XLR cable if the ordered filter dont work. will it impact the balanced connexion to remove pin one or add capacitors / resistors

RME ADI 2 DAC Fs

12 (edited by KaiS 2020-05-08 14:13:32)

Re: Noise on RME ADI 2-DAC Fs - Usb

benjisun wrote:
KaiS wrote:

And breaking an interface chip is again easily possible.

Glad I didnt broke mine by experimenting with the usb cable.

I will try making a custom XLR cable if the ordered filter dont work. will it impact the balanced connexion to remove pin one or add capacitors / resistors

Just removing the cable screen from XLR pin 1 can have lot's of adverse effects, from sound degradation to broken electronics on both sides of the connection.

Connecting the screen to XLR pin 1 through a parallel arrangement of 10nF capacitor and 100 Ohms resistor maintains the ground reference function of the screen, while breaking the existing ground loop.

Usually it's better to do this on the sender side, XLR female.
This way the screen does it's job for the balanced receiver.
And - there's more space in the female plug on some (with Neutrik both are the same).


Parallel means side by side, not one after the other - sometimes missunderstood.

The values of C and R are kind of prooven, but not need to be maintained exactly.

Re: Noise on RME ADI 2-DAC Fs - Usb

when my mac goes to sleep, the Noise Floor on the Analog Input changes to -44 db, if I wake it up again it's back to -96.

as describe in my other post, it also creates a ground loop when using a passiv controller and noise floor changes when I switch off some of my other gear.

seems like I'm not the only one having such troubles.

Re: Noise on RME ADI 2-DAC Fs - Usb

Update :

Problem solved for me.

I received the two filters I ordered.

The one that worked is the one that allowed to completly replace the power coming from the computer usb by an external source ( I used a Sony ac to usb charger i had 5v 1500 ma) - you need a usb-A to usb-C cable .

without external power the noise is still here.

The model brand / name is iFi Audio iDefender .

I took some pictures that you can find Here.

Hope this will help someone with same issue.

RME ADI 2 DAC Fs