1 (edited by aidenyoung 2020-05-19 12:25:16)

Topic: CD transport of AES to ADI-2 of Coaxial

Hi, I would like to confirm about on the cable connections. I read on the menu that the digital input of coaxial in ADI-2 can receive the AES signal from other unit such as CD transport/player.  Here is the case, my cd transport has an optical, AES and coaxial; three digital outputs. As the AES suppose to have a better signal than coaxia, therefore I am thinking to have someone to DIY an AES cable from cad transport to adi-2 dac. The AES cable one end will be female AES and the other end will be male coaxial end, the length is just 1.5M long.

I would like to know if I tailor made such cable does it work on the adi-2 dac? Since AES is 110 ohm and coaxial is 75 ohm, would that be an issue if connect it from the cd transport to the dac? I have find the below link which talk about it , it said as long as within 2 meter long then it will work. I just want to know does anyone here have tried it and it works on their dac?
I want to make sure there is no issue to affect the dac such as Short circuit or blow out the  internal board etc. Many thanks

https://www.soundonsound.com/sound-advi … pdif-input

2 (edited by KaiS 2020-05-23 09:40:54)

Re: CD transport of AES to ADI-2 of Coaxial

At that little lenght even two unscreened pieces of bare wire do the job.

Use the AES to AES or Optical to Optical connection if possibe.
Depending on the ADI you have AES might not be available, so optical is the best choice then.
2m optical is 4 bucks, don't pay much more!


ADI-2's digital Coax I/O's are not galvanically isolated and are quite sensitive to causing ground loops.

For AES-AES DIY you can:
• Buy 110 Ohms AES cable + XLRf + XLRm plugs.
• Standard musicians balanced microphone cable + XLRf + XLRm plugs.

• Or just buy 2m Mic- or AES-cable in the local music store.

AES to Coax will work too, don't connect the screen on the ADI side.
Use the same type Mic/AES cable like above.

Either will work, and neither may cost more than 20 bucks or you are ripped.

Re: CD transport of AES to ADI-2 of Coaxial

KaiS wrote:

At that little lenght even two unscreened pieces of bare wire do job.

Use the AES to AES or Optical to Optical connection if possibe.
Depending on the ADI you have AES might not be available, so optical is the best choice then.
2m optical is 4 bucks, don't pay much more!


ADI-2's digital Coax I/O's are not galvanically isolated and are quite sensitive to causing ground loops.

For AES-AES DIY you can:
• Buy 110 Ohms AES cable + XLRf + XLRm plugs.
• Standard musicians balanced microphone cable + XLRf + XLRm plugs.

• Or just buy 2m Mic- or AES-cable in the local music store.

AES to Coax will work too, don't connect the screen on the ADI side.
Use the same type Mic/AES cable like above.

Either will work, and neither may cost more than 20 bucks or you are ripped.

Because from what I heard is the voltage of AES is using 7v and RCA is like only 0.5 V something like that, therefore I am afraid the high voltage from AES to RCA might short circuit or blew out something inside the ADI-2. May I know what do you mean by don’t connect the Screen on the ADI side?

As you said if I take a AES cable and make the female end to AES and make the male end to RCA, there shouldn’t be a problem?

Re: CD transport of AES to ADI-2 of Coaxial

When the 110 Ω AES out is connected to the 75 Ω instead of another 110 Ω, voltage goes down to ca. 4V.

Nothing will break, an SPDIF receiver can deal with the 4 or 5V AES voltage, and AES can feed the 75 Ω SPDIF without problems.
This is all common practice.


To avoid a possible ground loop that might cause hum I suggest to wire this way:

XLRf(emale) Pin 2 -> red wire -> Cinch Center Pin
XLRf Pin 3 -> blue wire -> Cinch Housing
XLRf Pin 3 -> Screen -> not connected on the Cinch side

Technically this is 100% correct.
You get the full benefit from AES's galvanical isolation.

5 (edited by Curt962 2020-05-20 01:21:03)

Re: CD transport of AES to ADI-2 of Coaxial

Aiden.  Just get a piece of Amazon Basics Toslink.  Jeez already!!   The Solution to your needs.  Dirt Cheap. Bit Perfect, and 100% Galvanically Isolated.  There is no need to reinvent the Wheel, nor create a Cold-Soldered disaster which culminates in a fiery inferno with Amateur Soldering Irons left unattended.

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic AKM4490 Edition"
Cables:  Red, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes

Re: CD transport of AES to ADI-2 of Coaxial

Curt962 wrote:

Aiden.  Just get a piece of Amazon Basics Toslink.  Jeez already!!   The Solution to your needs.  Dirt Cheap. Bit Perfect, and 100% Galvanically Isolated.  There is no need to reinvent the Wheel, nor create a Cold-Soldered disaster which culminates in a fiery inferno with Amateur Soldering Irons left unattended.

Sure. Never try using toslink for long long time, perhaps can give it a try and see how the ADI perform with toslink. Great suggestions, thanks Curt

Re: CD transport of AES to ADI-2 of Coaxial

With a modern and well designed DAC like the RME ADI-2 FS/DAC/PRO there is no audible differenc between digital input signals.

It is still a HiFi myth that optical Toslink connections would be inferior (in the very early days of HiFi DACs it was) With modern DACs and extreme precise reclocking (RME's Steady Clock) there is no difference any more. Optical connections in fact are superior to electrical connections because they prevent ground loops.

8 (edited by Curt962 2020-05-21 02:14:27)

Re: CD transport of AES to ADI-2 of Coaxial

And then we have Bejoro's input...which is indeed Correct.   Digital is 1s, and 0's.   There is no "straighter" "1", nor "rounder" 0's as the HiFi Pimps would like you to believe. big_smile

Let's just keep our BS straightforward Aiden.  Use what works, and get on with it.

PS: My only complaint with Amazon Toslink was the packaging. smile    They could have sent me a Truck/LKW Tire in a smaller box.  So much packaging for such a small item?   Whatever.  It works great! 

Best!!

Curt

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic AKM4490 Edition"
Cables:  Red, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes

9 (edited by bejoro 2020-05-21 10:17:15)

Re: CD transport of AES to ADI-2 of Coaxial

Curt962 wrote:

Digital is 1s, and 0's.   There is no "straighter" "1", nor "rounder" 0's as the HiFi Pimps would like you to believe. big_smile

It was not that simple even a view years ago. Converting a digital audio input signal to an analog output not only needs the binary data but also a very precise corresponding clock signal. With SPDIF the clock signal is transmitted on one wire together with the binary data (very bad solution, but it is like it is).

Many DACs had no internal reclocking and had to use the clock signal of the source. The more jitter the clock signal the source introduced the worse the analog audio quality. Optical transmission is worse in this regard because of the conversion from electrical signals to optical and back.

There were very expensive external devices for precise reclocking (HiFi and studio world). But an external device is always inferior compared to a DAC integrated, extreme precise reclocking solution like RME's Steady Clock.

With this solution (Steady Clock FS) the analoge audio quality is independent of the input jitter - perfect!

So, the DAC world is easier today, but the topic in general is/was not that easy.

10 (edited by KaiS 2020-05-21 13:07:29)

Re: CD transport of AES to ADI-2 of Coaxial

bejoro wrote:
Curt962 wrote:

Digital is 1s, and 0's.   There is no "straighter" "1", nor "rounder" 0's as the HiFi Pimps would like you to believe. big_smile

... Converting a digital audio input signal to an analog output not only needs the binary data but also a very precise corresponding clock signal. With SPDIF the clock signal is transmitted on one wire together with the binary data (very bad solution, but it is like it is).

Many DACs had no internal reclocking and had to use the clock signal of the source. The more jitter the clock signal the source introduced the worse the analog audio quality. Optical transmission is worse in this regard because of the conversion from electrical signals to optical and back...

Every DA-converter uses reclocking, even the receiver chips of the digital interface already have some built in.
Without re-clocking a DA-conversion does not work, because every digital interface has a huge amount of clock jitter, way beyond what would be usable as conversion clock directly.


TOSLINK Optical transmission delivers superior audio quality in most cases because it isolates, therefore prevents any ground loops building up on the digital signal path.

Ground loops practically are the number one source for analog signal degradation, causing a lot of head scratching going on even in this forum.


RME's ADI-2 (Pro) is quite sensitive to grounding issues.
I know what I'm talking about.
I'm using ADI-2 Pro for measurement and it makes me head scratching from time to time too.
I have to use USB in this setup, and the resulting stray ground loops on this path have given me problems more than once.



With any serious AD and DA converter of today clock jitter is a non-issue.
Not only RME knows about the importance of a good clock, this is just basic engineering.


Optical simply is the superior interface for digital in a HiFi and Studio environment, period.



Only with bad made converters under laboratory conditions, a situation that does have no practical relevance, other interfaces (which?) might give slightly better results -
if you look at the tiny differences of the jitter effect only.

Even then, if you look at other artifacts, TOSLINK/optical will be superior.
And who cares about bad made converters?

Re: CD transport of AES to ADI-2 of Coaxial

Just my 2 cents: maybe one should try; at my house (not new nor old electric installation), I’ve never encounter grounding issue with the ADI; and the coaxial connexion works as fine as the optical one: absolutely no noise nor humm nor buzz.
And I used my ADI in 3 different homes: no issues with the coaxial connexion. No grounding issues.

Maybe it depends on a lot of factors, but I think we mustn’t edict general principle. It’s easy to try.

ADI-2 DAC (with stock PSU) - Neumann KH 310 A monitors - Cheap USB and XLR cables

12 (edited by bejoro 2020-05-21 15:11:01)

Re: CD transport of AES to ADI-2 of Coaxial

KaiS wrote:
bejoro wrote:
Curt962 wrote:

Digital is 1s, and 0's.   There is no "straighter" "1", nor "rounder" 0's as the HiFi Pimps would like you to believe. big_smile

... Converting a digital audio input signal to an analog output not only needs the binary data but also a very precise corresponding clock signal. With SPDIF the clock signal is transmitted on one wire together with the binary data (very bad solution, but it is like it is).

Many DACs had no internal reclocking and had to use the clock signal of the source. The more jitter the clock signal the source introduced the worse the analog audio quality. Optical transmission is worse in this regard because of the conversion from electrical signals to optical and back...

Every DA-converter uses reclocking, even the receiver chips of the digital interface already have some built in.
Without re-clocking a DA-conversion does not work, because every digital interface has a huge amount of clock jitter, way beyond what would be usable as conversion clock directly.


TOSLINK Optical transmission delivers superior audio quality in most cases because it isolates, therefore prevents any ground loops building up on the digital signal path.

Ground loops practically are the number one source for analog signal degradation, causing a lot of head scratching going on even in this forum.


RME's ADI-2 (Pro) is quite sensitive to grounding issues.
I know what I'm talking about.
I'm using ADI-2 Pro for measurement and it makes me head scratching from time to time too.
I have to use USB in this setup, and the resulting stray ground loops on this path have given me problems more than once.



With any serious AD and DA converter of today clock jitter is a non-issue.
Not only RME knows about the importance of a good clock, this is just basic engineering.


Optical simply is the superior interface for digital in a HiFi and Studio environment, period.



Only with bad made converters under laboratory conditions, a situation that does have no practical relevance, other interfaces (which?) might give slightly better results -
if you look at the tiny differences of the jitter effect only.

Even then, if you look at other artifacts, TOSLINK/optical will be superior.
And who cares about bad made converters?

Nobody claimed the opposite. @aidenyoung worried about Toslink.

I explained the history and hence the reason why optical tranmission may be still considered as inferior, especially in the HiFi world and why this is no problem any more.

Early/older DACs and CD players (not so long ago, some even still today) had to extract the clock from the source signal. So the jitter of the source clock was a big problem. The optical Toslink SPDIF always has much more jitter than an electrical transmission, but that's no problem any more today (at least with "good" DACs).

View years ago, extremely precise master clocks (like "femto second oscillators") had been unavailable or too expensive. Today almost every cheap China DAC has a "femto second clock".

So, correct, use Toslink whenever you can, at least with the great RME devices.