Topic: AVB setup question

Hi there.
I am new to network based audio and I am currently trying to setup a recording room which can be accessed by several workstations at a time. So AVB seems to be perfect for that. However I am not sure I fully understand the routing / device needs of such a setup. So here is what I think how it works:
a) Recording room with AVB Tool sends mic preamp audio to the network and receives ie. audio stream for headphones back from the network
b) Any computer hooked up with the network can receive and send audio via the Digiface AVB.
c) Any computer using the Digiface AVB needs an audio interface to listen to this audio and potentially send back playbacks or talkback or what ever, which the AVB Tool can then receive and play back.

Is that correct so far?
- Now what happens if I need additional mic preamps in the recording room, how would those get intot the Digiface AVB as well?
- I am a Fireface UFX+ user, however I am not sure how I can combine the Digiface AVB audio with the UFX+ and I can not select two different audio interfaces in my DAW (afaik).
- What if a computer does not actually have an RME main audio interface, but something else, how wouldd the Digiface AVB audio be routed to a DAW then?

Any help what a typical small setup like this would look like would be super helpful.
Thanks,
Axel

Re: AVB setup question

I try to answer this:
> a) Recording room with AVB Tool sends mic preamp audio to the network and receives ie. audio stream for headphones back from the network
that was an easy one :-) --> yes

> b) Any computer hooked up with the network can receive and send audio via the Digiface AVB.
First of all the Digiface AVB has to be connected via USB 2 or 3 to ONE computer. After this you can reach all AVB devices on this computer (certainly there is a need for an AVB switch)
now it gets more difficult: AVB devices need to be controlled by an AVDECC. If you connect a AVB device directly to a Mac (which supports (at least in theory) AVB natively the ACDECC from the Mac grabs the AVB devices, so it is not possible to have two computers in the same network. However I have no idea how the situation is with two computers each with a Digiface AVB connected with one AVB tool for example.

> c) Any computer using the Digiface AVB needs an audio interface to listen to this audio and potentially send back playbacks or talkback or what ever, which the AVB Tool can then receive and play back.
I'm not sure if I got this right.... The Digifache AVB is an audio interface. You can stream audio in and out plus it has headphone tat can be assigned to any channel via total mix...

>- Now what happens if I need additional mic preamps in the recording room, how would those get intot the Digiface AVB as well?
You would just add a 12 Mic for example and plug it into the network.

> I am a Fireface UFX+ user, however I am not sure how I can combine the Digiface AVB audio with the UFX+ and I can not select two different audio interfaces in my DAW (afaik).
Not at all. But my experience are based on Macs. But typically you can work with 2 audio interfaces (you have to sync them with wordclock). Then you can create an aggregated device in you operating system... (at least on a Mac)

the UFX+ is a nice device. You could work with MADI as well and daisy chain them. Network audio is certainly way cooler - if it works :-)

> - What if a computer does not actually have an RME main audio interface, but something else, how wouldd the Digiface AVB audio be routed to a DAW then?
I don't understand this point :-/ But on PC with a Digiface AVB and on a Mac either direct in the network port or also through a Digiface AVB

Re: AVB setup question

now it gets more difficult: AVB devices need to be controlled by an AVDECC. If you connect a AVB device directly to a Mac (which supports (at least in theory) AVB natively the ACDECC from the Mac grabs the AVB devices, so it is not possible to have two computers in the same network. However I have no idea how the situation is with two computers each with a Digiface AVB connected with one AVB tool for example.

That's not entirely accurate. Even if you connect an AVB capable Mac to an AVB network, you still have full control over what happens. An AVB device is only grabbed/acquired by the Mac if you ask Mac OS to do so. This can be set up via Audio-Midi-Setup -> Window -> Show Network Device Browser.
To be absolutely sure this cannot happen, E/A-Functionality can be completely disabled via Network system settings.

Axel, sounds like a good use case for AVB! Let me suggest another way to set things up:
One AVB Tool in the recording room, another one in your control room. Both are connected to your PC/Mac via an AVB switch.
Now you connect the CR AVB Tool to your UFX+ via MADI, so it basically becomes the entry point into your AVB system.
This way, you can continue using your UFX+, including DSP effects for monitoring etc., and have plenty of in- and outputs for monitors, headphones, analog and digital outboard etc.. And you are still able to extend your AVB system in the future (just add more devices to the AVB switch).
If the maximum channel count of MADI is reached, you can switch over to a Digiface AVB or whatever suitable is on the market then.

Re: AVB setup question

Hi guys. Thanks a ton for the answers!
I should have been more clear: I do want only one PC at a time being connected with the recording room.
Marc, that sounds like a good idea. So you would use the CR AVB Tool basically as a stand alone router than, correct? Basically like a patch bay into and out of the Fireface.
However, the goal is to have several workstations (one at a time though) being able to connect to the recording room with a simple network connection and some sort of interface. Using Madi might not be an option, since not all these workstations have a Madi interface. Also using the stereo out of the AVB Tool is less than optimal, since you would A/D/A/D convert the signal + only have two channels.
So I guess another solution is to have one AVB Tool in the recording room, one Digiface in the control room. To get talkback and listen back channels I would add another AVB Tool in the control room and connect this one directly to the setup in this room (mixing desk, monitor controller or what ever is available there). Is that correct? Than the only thing we would have to do is install RME drivers on all these workstations and switch the audio driver whenever this control room wants to record the recording room.

Recording "AVB Tool 1"-> "Digiface AVB" -> Computer
Computer -> "Digiface AVB" -> Control "AVB Tool 2" -> Recording "AVB Tool 1" to get playback and talkback into the recording room.
Correct?

Sorry - still a bit puzzling :-( But once I figured this out I guess that is a pretty flexible setup! Still not sure if connecting all the different montoring systems to the AVB Tool, but I will figure something out I guess.
Thanks again,
Axel

Re: AVB setup question

Xcell wrote:

I should have been more clear: I do want only one PC at a time being connected with the recording room.

Are these PCs all in one room (control room or separate server room), or are they spatially separated (e.g. multiple control rooms)?

Re: AVB setup question

The PCs are spatially seperated in different rooms.
(sorry for the slow reaction, I somehow don't receive notifications - will change settings now)
Thanks!

Re: AVB setup question

Ok! Based on that...

Xcell wrote:

So you would use the CR AVB Tool basically as a stand alone router than, correct? Basically like a patch bay into and out of the Fireface.

Yes, a router or gateway into the AVB network basically.

Xcell wrote:

However, the goal is to have several workstations (one at a time though) being able to connect to the recording room with a simple network connection and some sort of interface. Using Madi might not be an option, since not all these workstations have a Madi interface. Also using the stereo out of the AVB Tool is less than optimal, since you would A/D/A/D convert the signal + only have two channels.

I'm not sure what you mean by A/D/A/D conversion? The goal of course is to stay in the digital domain as long as possible. i.e. only convert for the sources (microphones) and sinks (monitors/headphones).


Xcell wrote:

So I guess another solution is to have one AVB Tool in the recording room, one Digiface in the control room. To get talkback and listen back channels I would add another AVB Tool in the control room and connect this one directly to the setup in this room (mixing desk, monitor controller or what ever is available there). Is that correct? Than the only thing we would have to do is install RME drivers on all these workstations and switch the audio driver whenever this control room wants to record the recording room.


I still don't have a clear picture how your current setup looks like. Especially, are all rooms equipped with a mixing desk? Analog? Digital? What interfaces do the DAWs use at the moment? Is your monitoring setup stereo? Surround? Atmos?

I would choose the interface based on the current infrastructure. So if you have one control room fully equipped, UFX+ + AVB Tool there. If it's only the workstation + headphones or stereo monitors (editing room), Digiface AVB. AVB Tool where MADI is available, because it gives you more I/Os for monitoring and talkback.

You are saying that only one PC should be connected to the network at a time - but that certainly doesn't mean you want to carry your interface around and reconnect it every time right? If so, that would be another option.

At the other end of the scale would be one Digiface AVB per workstation and one I/O box suitable to the rest of the gear in the room, exactly as you say:

Xcell wrote:

Recording "AVB Tool 1"-> "Digiface AVB" -> Computer
Computer -> "Digiface AVB" -> Control "AVB Tool 2" -> Recording "AVB Tool 1" to get playback and talkback into the recording room.
Correct?


Xcell wrote:

Still not sure if connecting all the different montoring systems to the AVB Tool, but I will figure something out I guess.

If you need more I/Os and already have infrastructure (monitor controller etc), than the M-1610 could be interesting as well. It also has ADAT outputs.