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RME User Forum → ADI-2 & 2/4 Pro series, ADI-2 DAC series → ADI-2 FS vs integrated amp DAC
Yep!
This is why Kai, and I exist. 
Meanwhile ....
I can confirm an external dac surpassed the dac within my amp (where this thread all started from!).
I could still not test with RME ADI-2 FS series, but out of curiosity I a/b-ed between old(er) soundcard connected to analog and the integrated dac that got its signal via optical from RME's Digiface USB. Both sound stunning, but the peaceful soundstage from the external dac compared to the more restless sound from the internal dac made a huge difference. (i miss some words in my vocabulary to describe the difference better).
This brought me to the conclusion that if even a 2010-ish soundcard can, then also the ADI-2 FS's AK4490 DAC chip MUST give me a good improvement.
Any case, I thought it is good to share this Let's see how this discussion continues..
and found a "buzzword" in RME's manual! 34.23 "The ADI-2 Pro is a gem"
> The BRAND NAME of the Gear was the determining factor.
Nowadays don’t we sometimes do the same?
"We" would incliude me - NOT.
In general an approach with at least basic scientific base is missing, with all those self declared " Golden-Ear-Equipped reviewers" who don't even know what a double blind test is.
Not much has changed since this all started in the 70's, still, the louder the better.
Add enough placebo effect and hype train, and the more money is involved the stronger the placebo works, that's where we are today.
Fortunately here is a community that is much more earthed in reality, quite refreshing for me.
Final remark:
Why is a closely level matched double blind test useless, in the most cases, for a contemporary reviewer?
Because there is no audible difference between most of the equipment they are testing.
You cannot report, "there is no difference" to your audience, that's boring, and people like bells and whistle's.
We live in "The Golden Age of BS" 
At least here in this Forum, we get some Shelter from it all. Thank Heavens.
Stu...
This Kaffe Klatch is 3pgs deep, and we STILL don't have an RME in your Set Up? This must change!
Kai! Help Stu find his Credit Card. 
Curt
Meanwhile ....
I can confirm an external dac surpassed the dac within my amp (where this thread all started from!).I could still not test with RME ADI-2 FS series, but out of curiosity I a/b-ed between old(er) soundcard connected to analog and the integrated dac that got its signal via optical from RME's Digiface USB. Both sound stunning, but the peaceful soundstage from the external dac compared to the more restless sound from the internal dac made a huge difference. (i miss some words in my vocabulary to describe the difference better).
This brought me to the conclusion that if even a 2010-ish soundcard can, then also the ADI-2 FS's AK4490 DAC chip MUST give me a good improvement.
Any case, I thought it is good to share this
Double blind A/B tests with level matched? A lot of "huge difference" suddenly disappear in such tests...
and found a "buzzword" in RME's manual! 34.23 "The ADI-2 Pro is a gem"
They compensate this one with the brilliant nerdy joke on page 90 (about analogue volume control):
Non-reproducible settings (except 0 and 11).
Well Played N00b.
(One of my Favorites is in the Overview of the usefulness for the B/T Controls)
Yesterday...
Meanwhile ....
I can confirm an external dac surpassed the dac within my amp (where this thread all started from!).I could still not test with RME ADI-2 FS series, but out of curiosity I a/b-ed between old(er) soundcard connected to analog and the integrated dac that got its signal via optical from RME's Digiface USB. Both sound stunning, but the peaceful soundstage from the external dac compared to the more restless sound from the internal dac made a huge difference. (i miss some words in my vocabulary to describe the difference better).
This brought me to the conclusion that if even a 2010-ish soundcard can, then also the ADI-2 FS's AK4490 DAC chip MUST give me a good improvement.
Any case, I thought it is good to share this
Today:
During the day there may be more outside city noises, but I wonder if the above is psy acoustic or not, as today I find it harder than yesterday to find the diff.
And with that, I am back at square 1, i.e. a new dac MUST be better than my amp internal dac, before I make the decision.
Argh ..
Double blind A/B tests with level matched?
Well said and true statement! But yeah the output levels are matched for each.
Yesterday...
fieldstu wrote:Meanwhile ....
I can confirm an external dac surpassed the dac within my amp (where this thread all started from!).I could still not test with RME ADI-2 FS series, but out of curiosity I a/b-ed between old(er) soundcard connected to analog and the integrated dac that got its signal via optical from RME's Digiface USB. Both sound stunning, but the peaceful soundstage from the external dac compared to the more restless sound from the internal dac made a huge difference. (i miss some words in my vocabulary to describe the difference better).
This brought me to the conclusion that if even a 2010-ish soundcard can, then also the ADI-2 FS's AK4490 DAC chip MUST give me a good improvement.
Any case, I thought it is good to share this
Today:
During the day there may be more outside city noises, but I wonder if the above is psy acoustic or not, as today I find it harder than yesterday to find the diff.
And with that, I am back at square 1, i.e. a new dac MUST be better than my amp internal dac, before I make the decision.
Argh ..
There are differences:
The ADI-2 DAC's / Pro's Setting "DA Filter" varies the sounds.
The differences are subtle, but audible and I found my clear preference.
The main difference is in transient and room definition and instrument separation.
And, of course the DSP options to change the sound, like the equalizer etc., make a difference if you intend to use them.
These settings and options do not exist in the "ADI-2 FS" (the one without LCD).
For me personally the ADI-2 Pro was an almost end of a longer travel, to find something that adds global EQ possibilities to my headphones setup.
My main listening is from i-devices as streamers, sometimes straight from CDs too, which don't offer such.
I listen mostly CD's but play then from itunes.
@Kai, what is your preferred DA filter for listening/auditioning?
I liked my old featureless DAC just fine. I had it in play for years. The RME simply out-classed it, and brought many more capabilities, and a vastly expanded feature set with it. Features I absolutely enjoy!!
Yes!! My RME DOES sound better than my old DAC (which was lavishly appointed with such advanced tech as: On/Off/Vol), because the RME is easily custom tailored to MY EARS, and MY GEAR. Not someone else's.
RME for you Stu.
> The BRAND NAME of the Gear was the determining factor.
Nowadays don’t we sometimes do the same?
We can still fall prey to this phenomenon although it is not always foolhardy. I have said it lol - now watch the floodgates open. Run for it me thinks.
Mark
Naaaa Mark,
We don't resume the Public Beatings again until the 1st of Month. You're probably safe for now.
The Consumer has long been it's own worst enemy, while being graciously led astray by Marketing departments, and lest we forget the Poetic Musings of Magazine Reviewers!
There's ALWAYS someone to help us make a Costly, and Mis-guided purchase decision. In this Forum, we try to think rationally, and avoid that scenario. It's not always easy mind you.
"Demand Proof!"
Curt
Still, the adi-2 fs pro r is so highly priced, so that is then a Costly, but Well-guided purchase decision
But really, i see prices go up from round 1600-1650 to now 1700-1799.. why? And any black friday sale foreseen?
Meanwhile further a/b-ing with pleasure, but trouble finding any differences today !
Thinking that if my daw via optical comes into the ADI DAC and ADI DAC clocks to the incoming clock, that it's also possible with an optical 4:1 switch to send the signal from multiple optical inputs to the ADI DAC. And need one with a remote control..
Further thinking, as the ADI-2 Pro FS is not really a preamp but can have similar behavior, can you switch with its remote control between ADDA function and between analog thru mode with Digital out?
I listen mostly CD's but play then from itunes.
@Kai, what is your preferred DA filter for listening/auditioning?
I don't want to bias anyone here.
Go out and listen for yourself.
Don't concentrate on the quantity of treble, which can be changed with the equalizer if necessary.
Concentrate on the quality of transients, room definition and instrument separation.
Then tell me what you found and I will confirm.
I'm curious about your results.
I am listening to CDs directly and Flac rips when the current remastered versions are a downgrade to the original release version.
Unfortunately not too few albums in streaming are victims of the loudness war and remasteritis.
... as the ADI-2 Pro FS is not really a preamp but can have similar behavior, can you switch with its remote control between ADDA function and between analog thru mode with Digital out?
There is no analog thru mode on the ADI-2 Pro FS.
This mode is reserved to the simpler ADI-2 FS.
Oh if only I could loan one before purchasing I’d know for sure already which DA filter would be my favorite
But I need to be patient for now.. I’ll manage..
There is no analog thru mode on the ADI-2 Pro.
This mode is reserved to the simpler ADI-2 FS.
I thought there was some kind of preamp mode if no d signal is found.
“Preamp: Analog in to Analog out (internal digital out to in). This mode is active when no digital input signal and no USB is detected”
I was wondering if you can switch to this mode via the remote control.
( and then for sure I’d need a 4:1 toslink switch with one empty input to select)(and with a remote control for this)
Oehlbach Optosel 4:1 Mk II looks quite good and according to Oehlbach should not have the limitation to 96 kHz anymore.
The previous model as announced to support 192 kHz, but in fact had the wrong TOSLINKs built in and could only support 96 kHz by this.
Their case loooks better than the usual devices around €25 (which in most cases also do not support 192 kHz).
Don't get me wrong I can well live with 44.1/48 kHz, but I got some hires sound files for free where I simply want to be able to play them.
KaiS wrote:There is no analog thru mode on the ADI-2 Pro.
This mode is reserved to the simpler ADI-2 FS.I thought there was some kind of preamp mode if no d signal is found.
“Preamp: Analog in to Analog out (internal digital out to in). This mode is active when no digital input signal and no USB is detected”
I was wondering if you can switch to this mode via the remote control.
Yes you can, by loading a Setup with that mode active.
If you set the ADI-2 Pro FS R into 'DAC' mode then you can use the remote to select USB, COAX, OPT or Analogue as input. I use this all the time and it's very useful.
There is a problem in DAC mode. For example if you have listened to a 44.1 kHz track via USB and then switch to analog in you get only 44.1 kHz as a sample rate for the analog input signal, which is very low.
You have to use a stored setup with PreAmp mode activated to be sure to get always a higher sample rate for analog in like 96 or 192 kHz (or change settings manually).
If you use different EQ settings for different listening situations for example different headphones you will have to store always two setups per headphone, one for digital sources and one for analog in with PreAmp mode activated.
Or is there an easier way? (besides the manual change of the settings)
Normally if you connect an unbalanced TS jack into a balanced TRS output, you short-circuit the Ring to the Sleeve ground which causes distortion.
I want to ask two more things about the ADI-2 FS (i.e. without display) to be sure how the rear side analog outputs (in TRS jack) work.. In the ADI-2 FS manual it is mentioned that:
• (6.3) Contact R (ring) is connected to ground by a 100 Ohm resistor, which also allows the use of virtual balanced connections.
• (12) The rear panel of the ADI-2 FS features [...] 2 TS jacks as unbalanced outputs [...] <note fieldstu: this should be TRS
• (13) The jack sockets of the two outputs are unbalanced, but realized as TRS. Since the contact R is connected to ground with 100 Ohm, virtual balanced connections to these sockets are also possible."
I'd like to know:
1) Is it better to use a TRS plug with R floated?
2) in case TS plug is used, how does this prevent distortion in any unbalanced cabling?
Didn't I aswer this already - maybe in another thread:
The ADI-2 FS (i.e without display) has unbalanced output signals on balanced (TRS) connectors.
You can connected it to balance or unbalanced inputs using normal wired cables or adaptors without having to care for anything.
If the following amp is unbalanced, use a 6.3mm TS or TRS plug to Cinch cable.
If the following amp is balanced, use a 6.3mm TRS plug to XLR cable to benefit from the "virtual balance" effect.
1) It doesn't make a difference what happens to the TRS ring if connected to an unbalanced device.
2) No distortion can happen, as on the TRS ring there is no signal that can be shorted to ground.
The above is NOT true for the ADI-2 DAC!
Thanks Kai once more.
Is the below correct? After rereading is my understanding that, the TRS outputs being unbalanced this all starts to make sense. So it is then that if you use a TS jack, even if you short therewith the R to the S, instead of having the 100 Ohm resistor between R and S, that it does not result in issues as in the unbalanced output there is no (-) signal carried on the R.
> If the following amp is balanced, use a 6.3mm TRS plug to XLR cable to benefit from the "virtual balance" effect.
So due to the 100 Ohm resistor in place you can connect it just as well via a TRS cable even to balanced downstream equipment without issues.
And in the case there would be a balanced signal carried, all above does not apply.
Suggestion, would be nice to open a new thread for a new topic, then its easier to get information to specific topics. Its not so comfortably to pick such info out of a very big thread. Then other people with same questions can make more use out of the forum.
Good. Done
RME User Forum → ADI-2 & 2/4 Pro series, ADI-2 DAC series → ADI-2 FS vs integrated amp DAC
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