1 (edited by sdmarquart 2019-07-15 22:46:07)

Topic: DSD Direct mode

Hi. I'm thinking about trying this out. But I have to use a passive pre-amp for volume control into my powered speakers.

I'm currently running Roon into HQplayer (USB output from PC) with dOp SDM that converts everything to DSD. Then its output from my balanced out into my speakers. I also use Optical in for vinyl and Coaxial digital in for CD player.

By going DSD direct, i would lose volume control which kinda sucks since the remote is nice for that. So, does the ADI-2 convert everything to DSD direct? Meaning, my optical and coaxial would now output as DSD? And any videos (audio) on my Windows PC would be converted to DSD?

Just want to get a clearer picture on this. I'm not really happy with the digital sound from HQPlayer. Especially since hooking up my vinyl to this DAC. The vinyl sounds so much better. I'm getting feedback that by going DSD Direct my digital sound would be better. And I guess, then the other two inputs as well. And would the spectrum analyzer still work on the front?

Thanks for your help.

Spence

Re: DSD Direct mode

DSD Direct is only active when DSD is detected wink
If you play other files, the "DSD direct" setting won't change anything.

ADI-2 DAC (with stock PSU) - Neumann KH 310 A monitors - Cheap USB and XLR cables

3 (edited by sdmarquart 2019-07-16 09:10:08)

Re: DSD Direct mode

N00b wrote:

DSD Direct is only active when DSD is detected wink
If you play other files, the "DSD direct" setting won't change anything.

But I’m now sending balanced cables out of the adi-2 into a passive preamp for volume control in DSD direct mode and then balanced cables from passive pre into my powered speakers, bypassing the adi-2 volume control.  So for the optical pcm output from adi-2, am I using volume control on the adi-2, or at the passive preamp. It’s still sending the signal into the passive pre from the optical. I don’t have the passive pre to test but wanna make sure how volume control will work in all outputs.

Thanks,
Spence

4

Re: DSD Direct mode

There is no volume control for the optical output. If you choose Dig. Out Source - Main Out then the optical output signal is volume controlled, but no DSD anymore.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

5 (edited by sdmarquart 2019-07-16 10:02:26)

Re: DSD Direct mode

MC wrote:

There is no volume control for the optical output. If you choose Dig. Out Source - Main Out then the optical output signal is volume controlled, but no DSD anymore.

Just to clarify what I’m doing here. I’m using hqplayer through usb sending DSD direct into a passive pre and then out to speakers. For DSD direct, I use volume control on passive pre.

I simply need to know when I output optical, where is the volume controlled. On the adi-2 or the passive pre? Note that the balance cables are passing through the passive pre in all scenarios.

And I don’t have the passive pre yet, but want to understand.

Thanks,
Spencer

6

Re: DSD Direct mode

Sorry, but that setup makes no sense. How can a 'passive pre' have USB input and DSD output?

> I’m using hqplayer through usb sending DSD direct into a passive pre and then out to speakers.

Assuming it was meant

I’m using hqplayer through usb to the ADI then sending DSD direct analog into a passive pre and then out to speakers.

> I simply need to know when I output optical, where is the volume controlled.

And that is the next riddle for me - optical out from the ADI? To where? Another DAC?

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: DSD Direct mode

MC wrote:

Sorry, but that setup makes no sense. How can a 'passive pre' have USB input and DSD output?

> I’m using hqplayer through usb sending DSD direct into a passive pre and then out to speakers.

Assuming it was meant

I’m using hqplayer through usb to the ADI then sending DSD direct analog into a passive pre and then out to speakers.

> I simply need to know when I output optical, where is the volume controlled.

And that is the next riddle for me - optical out from the ADI? To where? Another DAC?


Sorry, it was the middle of the night while I was typing.

Here's my current setup:
Running Roon with HQ Player to upsample everything to DSD. Called SDM mode, but not Direct DSD. I have a USB line out of computer into the ADI-2 DAC. The ADI Dac is NOT running in DSD Direct Mode. I have balanced cables out of DAC into Focal Powered speakers. I also have a turntable into analog to digital converter into the optical in on ADI-2. And a CD player into the optical in on ADI-2. Everything works fine.

I want to try running the ADI-2 Dac in Direct DSD mode to see if it improves the sound of my Roon/HQPlayer setup. But I saw in Direct DSD mode, you lose all volume control on the ADI-2. So I purchased a Goldpoint passive preamp. One of these exactly. http://www.goldpt.com/sa1x.html
I also purchased another pair of XLR balanced cables to connect from the goldpoint to my powered speakers. The Goldpoint will arrive tomorrow.
My question is I understand the Direct DSD mode will only work with the DSD input from HQPlayer which is the USB input on the ADI-2. Then I'll operate the volume on the Goldpoint.
So, I'm asking when I switch to the Optical in on the ADI-2 to listen to vinyl, the balanced outputs are still going to the Goldpoint passive pre into my speakers. Do i operate volume for PCM on the ADI-2 or do I operate it on the Goldpoint?

I hope this makes sense.

Thanks,
Spencer

8

Re: DSD Direct mode

Don't your Focal Powered Speakers have a volume control or input sensitivity control?

The point is this: if you set the volume to -3.5 dB (not dBr) you can switch in real-time within the menu between Direct DSD and normal DSD. Very easy to hear if it's really worth it to loose the convenience of volume control. No volume change, just DSD converted to PCM or not.

Now usually that is too loud. So set the hardware ref level to -5 dBu. That might still be loud, so adjust the monitors. If that is possible you could test already now.

If that is not possible you insert the Goldpoint, adjust the volume, then still switch in real-time in the ADI's menu.

Added: If you have this set up correctly you should not notice any difference. That is fully normal. You can verify that the modes really switch by setting volume to a different value than -3.5 dB.

> So, I'm asking when I switch to the Optical in on the ADI-2 to listen to vinyl, the balanced outputs are still going to the Goldpoint passive pre into my speakers. Do i operate volume for PCM on the ADI-2 or do I operate it on the Goldpoint?

I would use the ADI (finer, easier, Remote...), but then you have different volumes for DSD Direct and PCM Digital In.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

9 (edited by sdmarquart 2019-07-16 15:48:51)

Re: DSD Direct mode

"Don't your Focal Powered Speakers have a volume control or input sensitivity control?"

No, I have Focal Solo6 Be speakers. They are powered but no volume control. Only balanced line in also.

"The point is this: if you set the volume to -3.5 dB (not dBr) you can switch in real-time within the menu between Direct DSD and normal DSD. Very easy to hear if it's really worth it to loose the convenience of volume control. No volume change, just DSD converted to PCM or not."

FYI. I was playing around with this earlier today. I was able to use the HQPlayer volume to test DSD direct mode on the ADI-2. So, to set the volume on the DAC I just turn it down to -3.5. Then it outputs from the DAC in a course volume into the Goldpoint (once I receive the unit)? I noticed when I changed the volume to say -10 on the DAC and then played through HQPlayer it sent a quieter signal.

"Added: If you have this set up correctly you should not notice any difference. That is fully normal. You can verify that the modes really switch by setting volume to a different value than -3.5 dB."

I couldn't really tell a difference in my testing. But it was quick and I had to get to my day job. I guess I just need to test through the Goldpoint and see what I get. There's also this passive/Preamp

https://www.schiit.com/products/freya-s

That might give me better options as it has a remote with multiple inputs. Maybe balanced for DSD direct and unbalanced for PCM?

The key is I want the digital to sound better. Are you saying there shouldn't be any difference in sound?

I appreciate all your input MC!

Thanks,
Spencer

10 (edited by N00b 2019-07-16 15:53:42)

Re: DSD Direct mode

sdmarquart wrote:

"Don't your Focal Powered Speakers have a volume control or input sensitivity control?"

No, I have Focal Solo6 Be speakers. They are powered but no volume control. Only balanced line in also.

I don't know if it can help, but you have a 2 positions sensitivity control on the Focal (+4 dBu or -10 dBV).

ADI-2 DAC (with stock PSU) - Neumann KH 310 A monitors - Cheap USB and XLR cables

Re: DSD Direct mode

N00b wrote:
sdmarquart wrote:

"Don't your Focal Powered Speakers have a volume control or input sensitivity control?"

No, I have Focal Solo6 Be speakers. They are powered but no volume control. Only balanced line in also.

I don't know if it can help, but you have a 2 positions sensitivity control on the Focal (+4 dBu or -10 dBV).

Hmmm. Not sure why I would change. Here's the speaker: https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail … io-monitor

I currently have it set on the back at the default -10dBV

Thanks,
Spencer

Re: DSD Direct mode

sdmarquart wrote:
N00b wrote:
sdmarquart wrote:

"Don't your Focal Powered Speakers have a volume control or input sensitivity control?"

No, I have Focal Solo6 Be speakers. They are powered but no volume control. Only balanced line in also.

I don't know if it can help, but you have a 2 positions sensitivity control on the Focal (+4 dBu or -10 dBV).

Hmmm. Not sure why I would change. Here's the speaker: https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail … io-monitor

I currently have it set on the back at the default -10dBV

Thanks,
Spencer

With the other setting (+ 4 dBu), your monitor sensitivity will be lower: for the same signal, they will play about 10 dB lower.

ADI-2 DAC (with stock PSU) - Neumann KH 310 A monitors - Cheap USB and XLR cables

13 (edited by sdmarquart 2019-07-16 17:01:07)

Re: DSD Direct mode

N00b wrote:
sdmarquart wrote:
N00b wrote:

I don't know if it can help, but you have a 2 positions sensitivity control on the Focal (+4 dBu or -10 dBV).

Hmmm. Not sure why I would change. Here's the speaker: https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail … io-monitor

I currently have it set on the back at the default -10dBV

Thanks,
Spencer

With the other setting (+ 4 dBu), your monitor sensitivity will be lower: for the same signal, they will play about 10 dB lower.

So, you're suggesting changing it to +4dBu?  And the speaker setting change would affect all PCM output too, not just the DSD output. That makes the speaker louder, so I'm confused again.

14

Re: DSD Direct mode

No, it makes the speaker lower in volume. And your first test seems to have been wrong.

But in the end you are wasting your time. If you think vinyl sounds better than digital then DSD Direct, which sound exactly the same as DSD or PCM (in comparison to the totally different sounding vinyl) will not change anything for you.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

15 (edited by sdmarquart 2019-07-16 17:12:57)

Re: DSD Direct mode

MC wrote:

No, it makes the speaker lower in volume.

Really. I've toggled it before and thought it got louder??

Or maybe I have it the other way. I'll check when I get home, but you're saying +4dBu is preferred, correct?

And I'm pretty sure I have it set at +4dBu.

Re: DSD Direct mode

MC wrote:

No, it makes the speaker lower in volume. And your first test seems to have been wrong.

But in the end you are wasting your time. If you think vinyl sounds better than digital then DSD Direct, which sound exactly the same as DSD or PCM (in comparison to the totally different sounding vinyl) will not change anything for you.

Really? There's no advantage going DSD Direct with the ADI-2 DAC? Then why is it even an option?

Jussi Lasko at HQPlayer and other folks on that forum said the digital sound improved using DSD Direct on the DAC. But I know you're a pro at this.

So you think I'm completely wasting my time and money by doing this? Then what would you suggest to get the digital sounding better?

Thanks,
Spencer

Re: DSD Direct mode

Or maybe running DSD Direct balanced out into this helps? https://www.schiit.com/products/freya-s?

Re: DSD Direct mode

Hello sdmarquart,

This may sound rude but there is no problem controlling volume DSD (pc) nor PCM (vinyl) with your setup

For DSD your digital side: use Hqpayer volume sending upsampled or direct DSD to ADI set at direct DSD (this will bypass all ADI filter settings)

For PCM your analogue side: via your convertor (optical out) use ADI volume control

Once setup correctly you only have to switch between usb and optical on the ADI

No need for extra equipment

Enjoy...

Roon > RME ADI-2 DAC FS > Nord Three 1ET400A ST > Focal Aria 936

Re: DSD Direct mode

chips666 wrote:

Hello sdmarquart,

This may sound rude but there is no problem controlling volume DSD (pc) nor PCM (vinyl) with your setup

For DSD your digital side: use Hqpayer volume sending upsampled or direct DSD to ADI set at direct DSD (this will bypass all ADI filter settings)

For PCM your analogue side: via your convertor (optical out) use ADI volume control

Once setup correctly you only have to switch between usb and optical on the ADI

No need for extra equipment

Enjoy...

Not rude at all! Yes, I plan on sending HQPlayer to ADI set to Direct DSD. But I do want to have a volume knob and not have to use it in the HQPlayer program. For all other PCM, maybe I'll set a volume (-3.5db?) and then"lock volume" on the ADI. Then all volume control would be done at the passive preamp.

Does this sound correct? And do you think there's an improvement using Direct DSD on the ADI?

Re: DSD Direct mode

Yes it can be done like that

Direct DSD skips all filtering inside ADI dac

In my system it sounds best YMMV...

Enjoy...

Roon > RME ADI-2 DAC FS > Nord Three 1ET400A ST > Focal Aria 936

Re: DSD Direct mode

chips666 wrote:

Yes it can be done like that

Direct DSD skips all filtering inside ADI dac

In my system it sounds best YMMV...

Enjoy...

Cool. I'll try that out..

Re: DSD Direct mode

Also, do you use HQPlayer? I think with ADI set to Direct DSD you have to leave the HQPlayer DSD source setting "DirectSDM" unchecked. I tried it with the box checked this morning and got a really loud static noise.

Any info is appreciated.

Re: DSD Direct mode

Yes i use Hqplayer and leave SDM direct unchecked

Sorry but this should be discussed on the Hqplayer forum

Enjoy...

Roon > RME ADI-2 DAC FS > Nord Three 1ET400A ST > Focal Aria 936

Re: DSD Direct mode

MC wrote:

Added: If you have this set up correctly you should not notice any difference.That is fully normal.  You can verify that the modes really switch by setting volume to a different value than -3.5 dB.

Hello. Does it mean that there is no PCM conversion in DoP mode when volume is set to -3,5dB? Thanks for answer in advance

25

Re: DSD Direct mode

No, it does not say that. It's about volume.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME