1 (edited by ezra-s 2020-12-26 21:44:40)

Topic: Anyone else used RME ADI-2 DAC with Beyerdynamic DT880 600??

Hello,

Just recently purchased Beyerdynamic DT880 600Ω to replace my old trusty sennheiser hd555, for music, movies, etc since the sennheiser is about 11 years old already.

Thing is, I am not used to this headphones, so not sure what to expect from the RME ADI-2 DAC and it together.

First impression was that I was missing bass, yet in medium highs it seemed to excel (sometimes maybe too much), since I had adi-2 dac in autoref I had to turn the volume up to about -15dbr, I would not get deaf from that but I noticed a sudden change in bass "quantity".

I think I generally suck grasping form my subjective impressions that is the best setup.. so I'd like to hear from yours and your experience with it.

Anyone?

2 (edited by ramses 2020-12-26 21:48:50)

Re: Anyone else used RME ADI-2 DAC with Beyerdynamic DT880 600??

Not all phones have good bass and tastes are different.

Did you use aready B/T for simple adjustments or the PEQ ?
Is the lack of bass that you refer to only at lower levels, so that you should compensate with dynamic loudness ?

It is it the overall loudness that is missing for you ? You know that the DAC has extreme power phones output
which can make even your 600 Ohm phones loud ? For this you have to enable Hi-Power (default: off).
But careful with your ears .. turn volume down 1st.

BR
Ramses
X10SRi-F, E5-1650v4, Win10Pro20H2, Cub11Pro, UFX+ (v0.9735), XTC, 12Mic, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE

3 (edited by ezra-s 2020-12-27 14:08:37)

Re: Anyone else used RME ADI-2 DAC with Beyerdynamic DT880 600??

Hey ramses, thanks for your tips.

I know it can be very loud with RME, there is really no complain there, so not saying the RME can't deal with them.

I played with treble/bass, EQ, loudness and even hi-power in manual, but I think RME does a good job setting it up automatically

Just wanted to make sure what others experience with this headphone or how they tweak their RME ADI-2 DAC with it, the reason for my post is my ignorance with these type of headphones with such high impedance and how to deal with them. Santa Claus brought them! big_smile

Anyways searching I think I found a very good description of how they sound and matches by subjective perception, although I couldn't put it into words so adeptly:

"Bass is there but not in abundance. Those looking for thumping powerful bass will have to look elsewhere. The DT880 is somewhat lacking ‘body’/’grunt’/‘fullness’ to its sound.  Mids is what this headphone is all about. The mids sound very realistic and clear and with the right amount ‘warmth’. The DT880-600 is overly ‘detailed’, which as a result, also leads to sibilance with a lot of music. With classical music this isn’t really much of a problem. There is no offending sound coloration between the upper bass and upper mids that stand out, it sounds very ‘even’. A bit like a ‘warmer’ HD600 but with ‘hotter’ treble.
The treble is elevated and stands out a bit more than with the DT770 or DT990, because the elevated bass in these models kind of ‘masks’ this (many people prefer V-shaped sound). The treble is not harsh but there is a sharp character for sure and with some  recordings sibilance (sharp ‘sss’es) are heard. The DT880-600 is a bit artificial and fatiguing when used at somewhat higher listening levels. The DT880-600 has good ‘air’ and instruments are well separated and fairly easy to ‘place’. The stereo image is ‘normal’ in width. Not narrow nor congested but also not super wide.

Because of its neutral character the DT880 could easily be found to be boring to some.
Very well suited for acoustical, classical and Jazz music. Less suited for most popular and rock recordings (lacks bass for this and is a bit too bright).
The headphone reacts quite well to EQ which is a good thing.
Cannot be turned into a bass monster though."

https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com/he … 600%CF%89/

So, it seems I have bass, but not too much, fits in.
I detected sibilance, my first case, because I own two sennheisers (non too remarkable since they are not high end) and a grado 125e and neither do it or have it. Althouh sibilance with the DT 880 is no exagerated.

So it seems I may end up adjusting (lowering) the highs a little only because I'm not much fan of elevated highs (although with these headphones they are not exagerated but they are higher of what I'm used to), other than that, they seem quite confortable to use for a long period of time, and quite confortable listening.

So unless someone has an ideal setup they want to recommend, I think I will just adjust the highs a little for now and the rest will be on auto/flat.

Re: Anyone else used RME ADI-2 DAC with Beyerdynamic DT880 600??

ezra-s wrote:

Hey ramses, thanks for your tips.

I know it can be very loud with RME, there is really no complain there, so not saying the RME can't deal with them.

I played with treble/bass, EQ, loudness and even hi-power in manual, but I think RME does a good job setting it up automatically

Just wanted to make sure what others experience with this headphone or how they tweak their RME ADI-2 DAC with it, the reason for my post is my ignorance with these type of headphones with such high impedance and how to deal with them. Santa Claus brought them! big_smile

Anyways searching I think I found a very good description of how they sound and matches by subjective perception, although I couldn't put it into words so adeptly:

"Bass is there but not in abundance. Those looking for thumping powerful bass will have to look elsewhere. The DT880 is somewhat lacking ‘body’/’grunt’/‘fullness’ to its sound.  Mids is what this headphone is all about. The mids sound very realistic and clear and with the right amount ‘warmth’. The DT880-600 is overly ‘detailed’, which as a result, also leads to sibilance with a lot of music. With classical music this isn’t really much of a problem. There is no offending sound coloration between the upper bass and upper mids that stand out, it sounds very ‘even’. A bit like a ‘warmer’ HD600 but with ‘hotter’ treble.
The treble is elevated and stands out a bit more than with the DT770 or DT990, because the elevated bass in these models kind of ‘masks’ this (many people prefer V-shaped sound). The treble is not harsh but there is a sharp character for sure and with some  recordings sibilance (sharp ‘sss’es) are heard. The DT880-600 is a bit artificial and fatiguing when used at somewhat higher listening levels. The DT880-600 has good ‘air’ and instruments are well separated and fairly easy to ‘place’. The stereo image is ‘normal’ in width. Not narrow nor congested but also not super wide.

Because of its neutral character the DT880 could easily be found to be boring to some.
Very well suited for acoustical, classical and Jazz music. Less suited for most popular and rock recordings (lacks bass for this and is a bit too bright).
The headphone reacts quite well to EQ which is a good thing.
Cannot be turned into a bass monster though."

https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com/he … 600%CF%89/

So, it seems I have bass, but not too much, fits in.
I detected sibilance, my first case, because I own two sennheisers (non too remarkable since they are not high end) and a grado 125e and neither do it or have it. Althouh sibilance with the DT 880 is no exagerated.

So it seems I may end up adjusting (lowering) the highs a little only because I'm not much fan of elevated highs (although with these headphones they are not exagerated but they are higher of what I'm used to), other than that, they seem quite confortable to use for a long period of time, and quite confortable.

So unless someone has an ideal setup they want to recommend, I think I will just adjust the highs a little for now and the rest will be on auto/flat.

Hi there.
I have the 880s 600 ohm phones.
I have been trying to find ways of lowering the highs,  I think we need to lower around 6k.
And I agree bass can be an issue.
I did try to find the correct settings on the adi 2 dac fs. For these phones,  alas nothing comes up.
Each time I dial down the treble  I just make a mess of it. And have to reset.

Let me know if you find the right adjustments for these phones.

Re: Anyone else used RME ADI-2 DAC with Beyerdynamic DT880 600??

terrys999 wrote:
ezra-s wrote:

Hey ramses, thanks for your tips.

I know it can be very loud with RME, there is really no complain there, so not saying the RME can't deal with them.

I played with treble/bass, EQ, loudness and even hi-power in manual, but I think RME does a good job setting it up automatically

Just wanted to make sure what others experience with this headphone or how they tweak their RME ADI-2 DAC with it, the reason for my post is my ignorance with these type of headphones with such high impedance and how to deal with them. Santa Claus brought them! big_smile

Anyways searching I think I found a very good description of how they sound and matches by subjective perception, although I couldn't put it into words so adeptly:

"Bass is there but not in abundance. Those looking for thumping powerful bass will have to look elsewhere. The DT880 is somewhat lacking ‘body’/’grunt’/‘fullness’ to its sound.  Mids is what this headphone is all about. The mids sound very realistic and clear and with the right amount ‘warmth’. The DT880-600 is overly ‘detailed’, which as a result, also leads to sibilance with a lot of music. With classical music this isn’t really much of a problem. There is no offending sound coloration between the upper bass and upper mids that stand out, it sounds very ‘even’. A bit like a ‘warmer’ HD600 but with ‘hotter’ treble.
The treble is elevated and stands out a bit more than with the DT770 or DT990, because the elevated bass in these models kind of ‘masks’ this (many people prefer V-shaped sound). The treble is not harsh but there is a sharp character for sure and with some  recordings sibilance (sharp ‘sss’es) are heard. The DT880-600 is a bit artificial and fatiguing when used at somewhat higher listening levels. The DT880-600 has good ‘air’ and instruments are well separated and fairly easy to ‘place’. The stereo image is ‘normal’ in width. Not narrow nor congested but also not super wide.

Because of its neutral character the DT880 could easily be found to be boring to some.
Very well suited for acoustical, classical and Jazz music. Less suited for most popular and rock recordings (lacks bass for this and is a bit too bright).
The headphone reacts quite well to EQ which is a good thing.
Cannot be turned into a bass monster though."

https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com/he … 600%CF%89/

So, it seems I have bass, but not too much, fits in.
I detected sibilance, my first case, because I own two sennheisers (non too remarkable since they are not high end) and a grado 125e and neither do it or have it. Althouh sibilance with the DT 880 is no exagerated.

So it seems I may end up adjusting (lowering) the highs a little only because I'm not much fan of elevated highs (although with these headphones they are not exagerated but they are higher of what I'm used to), other than that, they seem quite confortable to use for a long period of time, and quite confortable.

So unless someone has an ideal setup they want to recommend, I think I will just adjust the highs a little for now and the rest will be on auto/flat.

Hi there.
I have the 880s 600 ohm phones.
I have been trying to find ways of lowering the highs,  I think we need to lower around 6k.
And I agree bass can be an issue.
I did try to find the correct settings on the adi 2 dac fs. For these phones,  alas nothing comes up.
Each time I dial down the treble  I just make a mess of it. And have to reset.

Let me know if you find the right adjustments for these phones.

At the end I made the following small parametric EQ adjustments, and nothing else:

B1 - F100 - Q1.0 G:+2 (to increase bass just a little all the way from 100 to lowest frequencies)
B4 - F8.0k - Q2.5 G: -1.5 (I may lower it a bit more later, perhaps to -2.0 or -2.5)
Loudness is at -55db ref level - bass gain 8.0db and treble gain is 5.0db (I tend to do extensive listening at -30dbr or even -25dbr (sometimes I go to extreme at -15dbr and such for songs I really love but I don't think I will do that for too long.

AutoRef level is on because of course I noticed RME did a great job powering the headphones and I didn't need to concern with manually tweaking that (I noticed my first impressions were comparing to speakers and other headphones and I must not do that)

Did extensive listening and I liked the result, in some songs I still perceived a tad bit of too much highs, but the sound was confortable enough for me to listen for a couple of hours and enjoyed it much.

I think it is generally better to start small with some minor adjustments. Also the link I pasted earlier shows the measured freq response and that one helps to see where you can start tinkering if you can't measure it yourself.

6 (edited by Basken 2020-12-28 19:00:14)

Re: Anyone else used RME ADI-2 DAC with Beyerdynamic DT880 600??

I dug up a frequency plot of the DT880 - take a look here:
https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com/he … 600%CF%89/

It seems pretty clear from the plot, that the DT800 have a fair bit of "edge" around the 6k - 8k area; certainly more than just a few db! You could try to counter that curve a bit with the PEQ ..

Rune Borup @ FishCorp
Producer / Engineer / Composer
RayDAT > 2 x ADI-8 QS | AES+SPDIF > ADI-2 Pro

7 (edited by ezra-s 2020-12-30 01:44:37)

Re: Anyone else used RME ADI-2 DAC with Beyerdynamic DT880 600??

Basken wrote:

I dug up a frequency plot of the DT880 - take a look here:
https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com/he … 600%CF%89/

It seems pretty clear from the plot, that the DT800 have a fair bit of "edge" around the 6k - 8k area; certainly more than just a few db! You could try to counter that curve a bit with the PEQ ..

I posted that in the third post of this thread, and my eq is based on that : o )

Re: Anyone else used RME ADI-2 DAC with Beyerdynamic DT880 600??

ezra-s wrote:

I posted that in the third post of this thread, and my eq is based on that : o )

So i see wink .. Sorry bout that!

Rune Borup @ FishCorp
Producer / Engineer / Composer
RayDAT > 2 x ADI-8 QS | AES+SPDIF > ADI-2 Pro

9 (edited by KaiS 2021-01-01 21:09:37)

Re: Anyone else used RME ADI-2 DAC with Beyerdynamic DT880 600??

Beyerdynamic built the DT 880 over a very long time.
I have here the very early version from about 1984, that this thread made me pull out of the drawer and listen again.

All original, except that I had the long deteriorated pads replaced with original Beyer type 913669, and once had to replace the jack when the cable broke close to it.

It’s got quite different looks to the current model, but it seems Beyerdynamic kept the sound relatively close to the original.

Still there are variations.
According to my experience and my own measurements pads make quite some difference with this model.
The original pads were very soft and had a relatively thin coating of faux leather.
The current type 913669 has stiffer foam, and thicker faux leather that is perforated on the inside.
The perforation tames all frequencies, even the treble.


I’m using the following EQ:
B1 Gain: +5.0, F: 60Hz, Q: 0.5.
Listening level about -37 dBr (Auto Ref. Level on)

Gives me a warm and transparent sound with different kinds of music. Not overly bright, bass ot the upper edge with contemporary productions, just right with older recordings.

Re: Anyone else used RME ADI-2 DAC with Beyerdynamic DT880 600??

As I recall from my research into the 880-600 it has a FR very similar to the original version of the Sennheiser HD 800. I have both, and just ordered my ADI-2, so the EQ settings above will be my starting point.

Thanks from an ADI-2 newby.

11 (edited by KaiS 2021-01-02 15:21:52)

Re: Anyone else used RME ADI-2 DAC with Beyerdynamic DT880 600??

Beyerdynamic DT 880 and Sennheiser HD 800 share some similarities in the measured frequency response on a course look.

I have both, and additionally the Sennheiser HD 800S.

In fact DT 880 and HD 800 are more different than similar.

The best you can do with the HD 800 is to install the “Superdupont Resonator”, “SDR”:
https://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/i … ator.1147/

I did this, only, despite description, I unmounted the grids and installed the SDR from the back, without removing the fine cloth mesh, to avoid any damage done to it:
https://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/i … d800.1155/

The effect of the SDR is complex:
• It reduces the resonance around 5.7 kHz.
• It boosts the range between 1 and 4 kHz by 2 dB.
• It boosts the complete range below 1 kHz by 1 dB.
• It removes the notch at 8 kHz that prevents the HD 800 to sound transparent despite it’s treble friendly characteristics.

The effect is very similar to the Sennheiser HD 800S, only that the 800S’s 5.7 kHz resonance is 1.5dB lower.

The same could be done with the ADI-2 PEQ, but it’s not that simple.

The only EQ the HD 800 with SDR, or the HD 800S needs, is 3 dB of bass boost from 100 Hz below.