1 (edited by CristiRada 2021-01-07 00:52:50)

Topic: UFX+ Windows 10 unstable performance

Hello guys,

I purchased a UFX+ about 2 weeks ago, and unfortunately, I have a very bad experience with it. It works very weird, and not stable at all. I purchased this interface because I wanted a flagship product, and I was hoping to get the stability RME is known for.

The interface does not work the way it is intended, very often when I play a audio file from the desktop, I have to select the file several times to hear it play. I see it playing but no sound is played. The same thing happens when using Cubase. Sometimes, this problem is solved when restarting the interface. I have installed the latest driver and firmware, and it does the same. Also, sometimes it crashes te entire sistem, and the computer restarts. Ocasionaly, when playing audio, some cracks and pops are heard. I really hope that a driver update can solve these problems.

I am sorry to say that I never had any problems with the interfaces I had before, but I wanted to switch to RME, to get better sound and stability.

Best regards,
Cristi

Ryzen 1800X (8 core) 64GB RAM, Windows 10 20H2, Cubase 11 Pro, RME UFX+, YAMAHA N8, Steinberg UR44

Re: UFX+ Windows 10 unstable performance

Wow, not a great first-time experience with RME...sorry to hear this.

All I can say is that my first RME product (a UFX+, too) has been fantastic, although I’m Mac-based and can’t offer you any assistance. RME really does have first-class products and hopefully I can reassure you that your experience sounds very much out of character.

Hope you get the situation sorted out.

3 (edited by ramses 2021-01-08 08:18:35)

Re: UFX+ Windows 10 unstable performance

Just EDITed, pls re-read, thanks.

Cristi, I'm sorry to hear that, this is absolutely untypical for a RME based setup. In particular regarding the UFX+: it's a fantastic device. I own it as well and never had any problem, even under extreme application/DAW load situations for testing, as I described here: https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/ind … cks-de-en/.

Now we have to find out by clever exclusion in which area the problems are, more on the computer or device side or a simple cabling problem. The user forum (also RME support) can support this process only in the best possible way, if you deliver more concrete information about your setup. Unfortunately you gave no details about the setup to get concrete starting points for troubleshooting. Windows or Apple ? Not even whether the device is connected via USB or Thunderbolt and which specific RME driver/firmware versions are in use.
Please note: its neither sufficient nor helpful to simply state to use "latest drivers and firmware". You can quickly make a mistake and then this can change as soon as new versions become available. Its also required e.g. to be able to compare with other known setups or to keep track of, what combination of hw/driver/firmware cause issues.

It would be interesting to know the following about the setup: OS, OS version (for Win10 exactly which Win10 version), whether pre-installation from the factory or new installation, CPU, memory. For laptops the name, for desktops also the mainboard and chipset.

Further OS/driver specific questions make no sense as we do not know whether you use Apple or Windows.

Proposal for some easy checks upfront:

  • Did you try another USB or Thunderbolt cable ?

  • Is the cable length within the specs ? Max cable length: USB3: 3m, Thunderbolt: 2m  (USB2: 5m)

  • Do you see any USB transport / CRC errors in the RME driver settings window ?
    Note: You need to keep the window open, so that the CRC check continues to run.

  • Do you have another computer to check whether the UFX+ runs there more stable to exclude a device problem by this ?

  • IF USB: did you try all USB3 ports ? To increase the likeliness to get a port with compatible USB3 chipset behind it. USB ports from Intel/AMD chipset should work, some chipsets are known to have issues (X99 if I remember right)

  • IF USB: do you use a port with a compatible chipset ? Please see the manual chapter 40.3
    https://www.rme-audio.de/download/fface_ufxplus_d.pdf
    https://www.rme-audio.de/download/fface_ufxplus_e.pdf

  • IF USB: does it make a difference if you connect the device to a USB2 port, so that only 60 instead of 188 channels are in use (all but MADI ports) ? It might be required to check/modify the USB settings on the device from "Auto" or "USB3" to "USB2" additionally to ensure that USB2 mode is selected / in use.

One remark because of your comment, that you had no problems with the previous interface(s) on the same computer.
Are you aware of, that the UFX+ is a 188-channel interface and transmits this high number of channels permanently and therefore has higher demands on the computer hardware and valid/solid settings (BIOS, OS) compared to a smaller recording interface with a significantly less channels ? Should USB be applicable in your setup, then please see also manual ch. 40.3 in terms of compatibility requirements for USB3 chipsets on the computer side.
Could you kindly tell, which other recording interface(s) you used before without issues on this computer ?

You also need to investigate on the compute side. Suboptimal / wrong settings, bad drivers, etc. are also possible there. But again, you didn't tell, whether you have Windows or Apple, Desktop or Laptop) therefore no concrete suggestions are possible at this point. Every platform has specific things to look for and also other tools to support the troubleshooting.

BR
Ramses
X10SRi-F, E5-1650v4, Win10Pro20H2, Cub11 Pro, UFX+, XTC, 12Mic, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, ARC USB

Re: UFX+ Windows 10 unstable performance

Hello guys,

Thank you for your replyes.

My computer is a Windows 10 PC, with the following specs: AMD Ryzen 1800X (8 Core), 64 GB DDR4 RAM, 1 TB NVME SSD, 8 GB video card. I conected the interface with the included cable on USB3, Windows 10 Home version 20H2 OS build 19042.685 is the operating sistem, and the DAW I use is version 11.0.0 of Cubase Pro. Also the driver for the UFX+ is 0.9734, hardware revision 52.

The interfaces I still use on my other PCs are YAMAHA N8 (FireWire )and Steinberg UR44 (USB 2.0), which work without any problem. Some years ago I used a RME HDSP9632, and it was rock solid, neved had any problems with it.

I hope that some driver update will solve this problem, because I really want to use RME, I love the sound quality, and hope to get the stability it is known for.

Have a nice day all!

Ryzen 1800X (8 core) 64GB RAM, Windows 10 20H2, Cubase 11 Pro, RME UFX+, YAMAHA N8, Steinberg UR44

5 (edited by ramses 2021-01-08 08:43:43)

Re: UFX+ Windows 10 unstable performance

EDIT1: maybe check connecting via USB2 1st as MC from RME suggests in post #7 of this thread.
You might have to set UFX+ to USB2 mode if "AUTO" doesn't work, see manual how to perform this.
EDIT2: added to set windows to optimize for background services
EDIT3: resorted order of tests and renumbered: Inspection 1st, then 1st LatencyMon run. Then Changes one by one with brief review whether audio drops still occurr and whether LatencyMon values became better. Maybe you see positive changes, but usually the sum of all changes brings best results finally.

I think, if this would be a driver problem, then you should see more problems like this here on forum, but this is not the case.
Experience shows, that there are other issues more likely, like chipset issues (X99), driver issues, BIOS / Windows related settings.

Proposal, instead posting back and forth 20 times I give you now a list of points that you could check.
Please answer the questions and/or post results.
Many thanks.

1. What other interface did you use before where you didn't have issues ?
2. Can you try the UFX+ on another PC just for testing ?
3. When or how often do these audio drops occur ?
4. is it reproducable, if yes how ?
5. Do audio drops occurr only when working with Cubase with the ASIO driver or also under Windows with the WDM drivers?
6. Is it somehow related to higher CPU / ASIO load ?
7. What sample rates / ASIO buffer sizes do you use ?
8. Do you use CPU hungry VST or VSTi (virtual instruments in your cubase project) ?
9. Are you browing the LAN or Internet when these drops occurr ?
10. Do you have WLAN enabled to access LAN / Internet or via Network Cable
11. Do you see CRC transport errors over USB3 (driver settings dialog)
12. If yes: Did you try another USB cable ? Did you try all other USB ports ?

Before doing changes to the system:

13. What does LatencyMon report on an otherwise not loaded / IDLE system if you let it run for 10 minutes ? The tool simulates a DAW load, therefore do not run any other application. Does it report something like that your system is not well suited for audio ? Please post the report on this forum.

After each of the following changes check individually, whether the situation improved. Repeat audio tests which triggered audio drops  (see also #4) and look whether LatencyMon values become better. A smaller 3 Min run should be sufficient for that.

14. How many WDM devices (for Windows compatibility) do you have enabled in the RME driver, reduce to 1 device only for the speakers.
15. Is energy saving disabled in the BIOS ? I only know Intel BIOS, on AMD BIOS the names could be different. Google for that. Most important to disable C-States, T-States, P-states. Sometimes you need to disable something called speedstep (Intel Calls this EIST, AMD might call it differently). In most cases you can keep TURBO on, as on my system this results in permanently 200MHz higher clock speed.
16. Do you use the High Performance Energy Profile ? If not please do.
17. Is CPU core parking disabled under Windows ? If not please do, you can use Bitsums Parkcontrol for that.
*18. Set Windows to optimize for background services, see also: https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/ind … orderlich/

19. Final LatencyMon run like #13, did something improve ? The sum of each change might bring more than each individual change itself.

Thanks.

BR
Ramses
X10SRi-F, E5-1650v4, Win10Pro20H2, Cub11 Pro, UFX+, XTC, 12Mic, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, ARC USB

6 (edited by ramses 2021-01-08 08:23:02)

Re: UFX+ Windows 10 unstable performance

> The interfaces I still use on my other PCs are YAMAHA N8 (FireWire )and Steinberg UR44 (USB 2.0),
> which work without any problem. Some years ago I used a RME HDSP9632, and it was rock solid,
> neved had any problems with it.

1. Other computer ? -> other hardware / BIOS / driver infrastructure .. sorry, not comparable.
2. The mentioned recording interfaces are also not compareable because of the much much lower amount of audio channels.
3. For this high amount of channels other USB3 transfer modes are used/needed and these need to work. Usually you have the least compatibility problems if you use USB3 ports from the mainboard that come from the chipset. See the comments in the manual, that I mentioned already.
A nice cross check is to use USB2 as I mentioned, as this limits the amount of channels at least to 30 I/O ports (60 ch) which is still more - compared to your old interfaces - but significanty lower compared to USB3 with MADI.

BR
Ramses
X10SRi-F, E5-1650v4, Win10Pro20H2, Cub11 Pro, UFX+, XTC, 12Mic, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, ARC USB

7

Re: UFX+ Windows 10 unstable performance

Ryzen 1800 is quite outdated and points to older hardware that was known to not work optimally with USB. There was a BIOS update that improves audio, but I am not sure that one is available for this system.

Else Ramses is right. This is about USB bandwidth on isochronous streaming, and there is nothing to improve on our side. Try the USB 2 test, at least.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

8 (edited by ramses 2021-01-08 10:32:30)

Re: UFX+ Windows 10 unstable performance

MC wrote:

Ryzen 1800 is quite outdated and points to older hardware that was known to not work optimally with USB. There was a BIOS update that improves audio, but I am not sure that one is available for this system.

Else Ramses is right. This is about USB bandwidth on isochronous streaming, and there is nothing to improve on our side. Try the USB 2 test, at least.

In this case it might help to use an additional USB3 PCIe card with a supported chipset (see manual).
I personally made good experience with a Sonnet card with the FL1100 USB chipset like listed in the UFX+ manual.
The 4-port card with 4x USB3 FL1100 ports is not available anymore and would also be a little oversized and pricy (€160).
Only FYI .. I was able in the past to use two UFX+ and one ADI-2 Pro on my system using that card without any issues !

But the normal card with only one FL1100 USB3 controller on it should still be available for affordable €54.

This card here:
https://www.sonnettech.com/product/alle … 4port.html
https://geizhals.de/sonnet-allegro-4-po … 48037.html

Windows 10 has already driver support for the FL1100 USB chip and it works fine.

Keep in mind to connect only the UFX+ to that card, because the one (!) USB3 controller ship is shared between the 4 ports on the back.

You didn't tell which mainboard you use. Check that you have a PCIe socket free on your system, that has PCIe lanes which are not shared with the Graphic card or any other components that might be in use in your system (M.2, ...). The mainboard manual should contain information about that.

BR
Ramses
X10SRi-F, E5-1650v4, Win10Pro20H2, Cub11 Pro, UFX+, XTC, 12Mic, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, ARC USB

Re: UFX+ Windows 10 unstable performance

Thank you for your solutions guys, I will try the Sonnet!

Ryzen 1800X (8 core) 64GB RAM, Windows 10 20H2, Cubase 11 Pro, RME UFX+, YAMAHA N8, Steinberg UR44