Topic: Output lost in babyface proFS. Comes back after a change in buffers

I have been using a new pc lately, ryzen 3600xt, 16gb, M2 500gb with my existing RME babyface proFS, on win 10 and cubase 10.5 pro.
When trying to work on previously created (and even edited just the day before) projects which were created on a Dell laptop with the same card, sometimes after the project is loaded I get no output at all.
I.e. there is no output in Cubase and of course in the RME.
Audio connections are OK and audio card selected OK. Sometimes the project may have been saved just the day before and it was  playing OK.

The way to make it trigger the output is only by changing the buffers, i.e. from 256 to 128 or vice versa. If changed from 256 to 128 for example I may work for as long as I want on this setting. The next day if I open the same project again chances are 50/50 it will play OK or be silent until I change again from 128 to 256.

Resetting the RME in cubase does not solve the problem either. Also this never happened with the Babyface for the six months I used it on the Dell Laptop.

There has to be a change (any) in buffers, to get sound again if sound is lost.

Is there an explanation?

Dimitris
Ryzen5 3600XT, Nvidia 1650, Win 10, Cubase 11 pro, BBF ProFS, Rode NT1a, CC121, ADA8200

2

Re: Output lost in babyface proFS. Comes back after a change in buffers

Loading a project in Cubase causes a high CPU peak. If the system is not operating perfectly this CPU peak will stop ASIO or the audio engine. Usually it should be enough to do an ASIO reset within the Cubase settings panel to fix this. Changing the buffer size back and forth is just the same operation (two resets).

You could try a different USB port, make sure energy plan is set to High Performance in Windows, Armoury Crate to Turbo mode, and that the latest BIOS is used.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: Output lost in babyface proFS. Comes back after a change in buffers

MC wrote:

Loading a project in Cubase causes a high CPU peak. If the system is not operating perfectly this CPU peak will stop ASIO or the audio engine. Usually it should be enough to do an ASIO reset within the Cubase settings panel to fix this. Changing the buffer size back and forth is just the same operation (two resets).

You could try a different USB port, make sure energy plan is set to High Performance in Windows, Armoury Crate to Turbo mode, and that the latest BIOS is used.

thanks for the answer, I will try to check it out.
But I still do not understand...
why was not this the case with the laptop, a seriously weaker device?
I am not sure but I think I tried resetting without results (I will check this again)
Which usb ports should I use? 2.0, 3.0, 3.1, 3.2 (I have all of them). Also I noticed drop outs when I fed the RME from a powered hub, which at the same time was feeding a midi keyboard and some other devices and eventually I now feed it from a dedicated port.
Would you suggest using the external power supply?

Dimitris
Ryzen5 3600XT, Nvidia 1650, Win 10, Cubase 11 pro, BBF ProFS, Rode NT1a, CC121, ADA8200

4 (edited by d.panagiotidis 2021-01-18 11:24:54)

Re: Output lost in babyface proFS. Comes back after a change in buffers

I just tried and it happened again.
After loading the project there was no sound.
At the same time though videos from youtube were playing normally.
I opened the studio setup from cubase. Resetting from the Asio Fireface USB tab did nothing.
Resetting from the parent Vst Audio system tab brought the sound back in cubase.

Dimitris
Ryzen5 3600XT, Nvidia 1650, Win 10, Cubase 11 pro, BBF ProFS, Rode NT1a, CC121, ADA8200

Re: Output lost in babyface proFS. Comes back after a change in buffers

d.panagiotidis wrote:

why was not this the case with the laptop, a seriously weaker device?

It is not that your computer is "weak", it is something that interrupsts the connection for a very short time.

Babyface Pro FS, MSI GS66, Studio One

Re: Output lost in babyface proFS. Comes back after a change in buffers

d.panagiotidis wrote:

At the same time though videos from youtube were playing normally.

Youtube does not use ASIO but Windows audio.

Babyface Pro FS, MSI GS66, Studio One

Re: Output lost in babyface proFS. Comes back after a change in buffers

I do think there is something in this. A few times now when I have had Cubase open for a few hours without use, the audio is not there. Now in my case playing the project a few seconds, stopping and playing again the audio starts. This 100% did not happen on my zoom interface. Also twice I’ve had an odd occurrence, again when pc is on for a while but not used where sound is just on one channel (right channel on last occasion) and the sound was really loud with no top end and huge bloated bass. A reset fixed this. This was not in Cubase but using mme. again something I’ve never experienced on the pc before I got my bf pro fs.

To be clear though nothing ever happens when I’m working. It is flawless with great latency and no glitches. I thought I should mention this though as I there definitely seems to be something going on which I did not experience with my last interface.

This has now been mentioned a few times on here so I wanted to chip in the let you know it isn’t only you and there could be a potential problem with the driver, although in my case it doesn’t cause any real problems.

Babyface Pro Fs, Behringer ADA8200, win 10/11 PCs, Cubase/Wavelab, Adam A7X monitors.

Re: Output lost in babyface proFS. Comes back after a change in buffers

ebmmbongo wrote:
d.panagiotidis wrote:

why was not this the case with the laptop, a seriously weaker device?

It is not that your computer is "weak", it is something that interrupsts the connection for a very short time.

thanks

Any ideas to debugg this problem?
I had another problem with dropouts (this time shorter and everynow and then) but I suspected a certain plugin which after being disabled sorted the problem.
Do you think there is something else connecting all these ?

Dimitris
Ryzen5 3600XT, Nvidia 1650, Win 10, Cubase 11 pro, BBF ProFS, Rode NT1a, CC121, ADA8200

9 (edited by ramses 2021-01-18 11:21:35)

Re: Output lost in babyface proFS. Comes back after a change in buffers

What Windows Power Plan do you use ? High Performance ?

How are the power plan settings of "High Performance" for USB in terms of settings for "selective USB-energy saving" ?
Please disable selective USB-energy saving in all power plans that you use for audio (DAW audio, Windows audio).

By default, Windows enables the power saving feature all USB ports known as USB Selective Suspend.  This feature is supposed to save power by shutting down USB ports that are only used intermittently.
However, sometimes the USB port does not get turned back on when it is needed or is inadvertently turned off.
For USB devices such as the XZY, powering down the USB port causes the devices to disconnect and possibly not reconnect properly, resulting in errors or an inoperable device.
You can prevent this situation from happening by disabling the USB Selective Suspend feature globally on your PC using the procedure below.

Do you use a power supply or do you work USB bus powered ?

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: Output lost in babyface proFS. Comes back after a change in buffers

ramses wrote:

What Windows Power Plan do you use ? High Performance ?

How are the power plan settings of "High Performance" for USB in terms of settings for "selective USB-energy saving" ?
Please disable selective USB-energy saving in all power plans that you use for audio (DAW audio, Windows audio).

By default, Windows enables the power saving feature all USB ports known as USB Selective Suspend.  This feature is supposed to save power by shutting down USB ports that are only used intermittently.
However, sometimes the USB port does not get turned back on when it is needed or is inadvertently turned off.
For USB devices such as the XZY, powering down the USB port causes the devices to disconnect and possibly not reconnect properly, resulting in errors or an inoperable device.
You can prevent this situation from happening by disabling the USB Selective Suspend feature globally on your PC using the procedure below.

Do you use a power supply or do you work USB bus powered ?


thanks for the answer
I just checked and it was not on HP but on balanced.
Also Selective suspend was enabled.
I have now changed them as suggested and will report back.

No I do not have the power supply. Do you think I should get one?
Would it help? I thought it was only for stand alone mode.

Dimitris
Ryzen5 3600XT, Nvidia 1650, Win 10, Cubase 11 pro, BBF ProFS, Rode NT1a, CC121, ADA8200

11 (edited by mkok 2021-01-18 11:38:30)

Re: Output lost in babyface proFS. Comes back after a change in buffers

Something to watch out for. I have just checked my pc and I was on balanced power setting. Now I always have it on High performance and my high performance settings have usb selective suspend disabled as well as other settings I did before.

So whenever you have a windows update check power settings as they may have reverted back to Balanced

Edit: I use Cubase which has its own power plan. I checked this plan and it does have the usb setting disabled and it definitely changes to this plan when opened so it doesn’t really answer part of the question. In my case I do not get clicks or pops and can ever run at 48 buffers well so mine is definitely not related bottle necks etc.

Babyface Pro Fs, Behringer ADA8200, win 10/11 PCs, Cubase/Wavelab, Adam A7X monitors.

Re: Output lost in babyface proFS. Comes back after a change in buffers

d.panagiotidis wrote:
ebmmbongo wrote:
d.panagiotidis wrote:

why was not this the case with the laptop, a seriously weaker device?

It is not that your computer is "weak", it is something that interrupsts the connection for a very short time.

thanks

Any ideas to debugg this problem?
I had another problem with dropouts (this time shorter and everynow and then) but I suspected a certain plugin which after being disabled sorted the problem.
Do you think there is something else connecting all these ?

Not really, I am in no way a computer wiz.
But checking what is running in the background might help, as using latencymon.
Swappong usb ports and disconnecting other devices might also help in order ro find the issue.
But others on here are far better at these things

Babyface Pro FS, MSI GS66, Studio One

13 (edited by ramses 2021-01-18 12:13:19)

Re: Output lost in babyface proFS. Comes back after a change in buffers

For DAW work always use High Performance mode with selective energy saving disabled. Cubase has a power profile of its own but has to be activated in the studio settings under "audio priority".

[x] Activate Mode for optimized audio performance from Steinberg (translated from German version).

When playing back audio in Windows 10 with an audio player it might also be better to use the "High Performance" mode.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: Output lost in babyface proFS. Comes back after a change in buffers

just a few minutes before I opened the project again after having the pc to HP, disabled usb suspension, and set cubase to audio priority.
Again I had no sound at 128. After resetting the asio driver nothing happened.
I had a look on my settings and saw that cubase had created its own power plan and overridden the HP.
Buffers were left on 128 when I had closed that project.
I changed it to 256 and all is OK....
I don't know....

Dimitris
Ryzen5 3600XT, Nvidia 1650, Win 10, Cubase 11 pro, BBF ProFS, Rode NT1a, CC121, ADA8200

Re: Output lost in babyface proFS. Comes back after a change in buffers

Yes Cubase does use its own power plan if enabled in the audio properties. I use the Cubase power plan. It’s there to save you the trouble of creating one.

Babyface Pro Fs, Behringer ADA8200, win 10/11 PCs, Cubase/Wavelab, Adam A7X monitors.

Re: Output lost in babyface proFS. Comes back after a change in buffers

Problem still persists....

Dimitris
Ryzen5 3600XT, Nvidia 1650, Win 10, Cubase 11 pro, BBF ProFS, Rode NT1a, CC121, ADA8200

Re: Output lost in babyface proFS. Comes back after a change in buffers

....and persists...

Dimitris
Ryzen5 3600XT, Nvidia 1650, Win 10, Cubase 11 pro, BBF ProFS, Rode NT1a, CC121, ADA8200

Re: Output lost in babyface proFS. Comes back after a change in buffers

Coming back on this issue

I uploaded a video showing the behaviour described above.

Project is loaded to do some edits on it.
No sound (was OK when the project was closed) comes out.
I try many buffer settings (usually one change would be enough to do the trick, now it took more).
I close project and load it again. After some more tries output comes but with crackling noises.
Finally I have to start cubase again to make it sound OK.

https://youtu.be/H3v5IJx-vqA

Dimitris
Ryzen5 3600XT, Nvidia 1650, Win 10, Cubase 11 pro, BBF ProFS, Rode NT1a, CC121, ADA8200

19 (edited by ramses 2021-02-17 12:50:36)

Re: Output lost in babyface proFS. Comes back after a change in buffers

Cubase operation error, pls see video at 00:52: there are no HW outputs assigned to Cubase output "Stereo Out".

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

20 (edited by d.panagiotidis 2021-02-17 13:04:21)

Re: Output lost in babyface proFS. Comes back after a change in buffers

ramses wrote:

Cubase operation error, pls see video at 00:52: there are no HW outputs assigned to Cubase output "Stereo Out".


of course this is NO error. Normal outputs are disabled because output is passed to Control Room output as it is shown in 0.54

Dimitris
Ryzen5 3600XT, Nvidia 1650, Win 10, Cubase 11 pro, BBF ProFS, Rode NT1a, CC121, ADA8200

Re: Output lost in babyface proFS. Comes back after a change in buffers

1:25 may be setting the ASIO guard level to high would help ?

M1-Sonoma, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue

Re: Output lost in babyface proFS. Comes back after a change in buffers

waedi wrote:

1:25 may be setting the ASIO guard level to high would help ?

I think I did go to both extremes 1024 and 64.

The system appears like getting "tired" after some time of use and needs something to shake it up.
This time the change in buffers or even closing the project did not solve anything.
But quitting and starting again ...did

Dimitris
Ryzen5 3600XT, Nvidia 1650, Win 10, Cubase 11 pro, BBF ProFS, Rode NT1a, CC121, ADA8200

23 (edited by ramses 2021-02-17 14:01:03)

Re: Output lost in babyface proFS. Comes back after a change in buffers

d.panagiotidis wrote:
ramses wrote:

Cubase operation error, pls see video at 00:52: there are no HW outputs assigned to Cubase output "Stereo Out".

of course this is NO error. Normal outputs are disabled because output is passed to Control Room output as it is shown in 0.54

Ah ok, yes you are right. Sorry I overlooked 00:54.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: Output lost in babyface proFS. Comes back after a change in buffers

Ok, some other ideas (hope this has not been discussed/answered already).

Question, to what type of USB port do you connect the BBF ?
Is this a port coming from Chipset (AMD) or from a 3rd party USB chip ?

Does the mainboard have latest BIOS installed and do you use the latest chipset driver from AMD ?
What mainboard is this please (to get an idea what chipset this is and what USB ports come from where).

Did you try already all USB3 and USB2 ports ? When plugging to USB3 port it will use also USB2.
Do you have perhaps an USB3 or USB2 PCIe expansion card ? If yes which one ?
Would be interesting whether this could fix anything should this be related to USB transport.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

25 (edited by d.panagiotidis 2021-02-17 15:11:32)

Re: Output lost in babyface proFS. Comes back after a change in buffers

ramses wrote:

Ok, some other ideas (hope this has not been discussed/answered already).

Question, to what type of USB port do you connect the BBF ?
Is this a port coming from Chipset (AMD) or from a 3rd party USB chip ?

Does the mainboard have latest BIOS installed and do you use the latest chipset driver from AMD ?
What mainboard is this please (to get an idea what chipset this is and what USB ports come from where).

Did you try already all USB3 and USB2 ports ? When plugging to USB3 port it will use also USB2.
Do you have perhaps an USB3 or USB2 PCIe expansion card ? If yes which one ?
Would be interesting whether this could fix anything should this be related to USB transport.


The BBF has been so far tested connected first through a powered hub (7 port usb 3.0 by anker), then only with its own cable to a usb port on the face of the pc (not back- because its cable is very short) and currently with a shielded extension cord to the back of the pc to a usb 3.2 gen 2 port. The problem occured at all times. What I did not test, is connection to the back with its own only cable, which is impossible, since I must bring the pc unit on my desk next to the screen.
Usb ports used are only the ones on the MB, there αρε no OEM (besides the previously reffered to anker hub, through which now only my midi keyboard is connected, temporarily until I get an extension to hook it directy to the back of the pc and get rid of it)

The MB is this
https://www.asus.com/Motherboards-Compo … /techspec/
(of course no wifi is used)

I am almost sure it has to do with USB...
And I want to get rid of the anker even though it is just on the system

Also, I forgot there is one new version of the bios, since I set it up, but I did not download it yet... I wanted to check everything else first

Dimitris
Ryzen5 3600XT, Nvidia 1650, Win 10, Cubase 11 pro, BBF ProFS, Rode NT1a, CC121, ADA8200

26 (edited by ramses 2021-02-17 16:04:41)

Re: Output lost in babyface proFS. Comes back after a change in buffers

d.panagiotidis wrote:

The MB is this https://www.asus.com/Motherboards-Compo … /techspec/ (of course no wifi is used)

I am almost sure it has to do with USB... And I want to get rid of the anker even though it is just on the system

Also, I forgot there is one new version of the bios, since I set it up, but I did not download it yet... I wanted to check everything else first

Ah ok, B550 without chipset blower, nice.
Yes sure, I understand, check everything else until BIOS upgrade.
Well, would be interested how it is with separate USB card.

I used a Sonnet card with FL1100 because the USB3 chipset was tested by RME for UFX+.
But USB3 is more critical I read here in the forum, because there were some not so good ASMEDia chips in the past.
But only in the USB3 area, not USB2.
On the other hand I ordered later another ASMedia and found out it worked well with UFX+, too.

I think USB2 extension cards would be bad waste of PCIe sockets but you need to be careful,
your µATX board has only 2x PCIe 3.0 x1 sockets.
The high speed USB cards need PCIe sockets with x4 lanes.

Sometimes its problematic with such smaller µATX boards, not so many options to expand with high speed cards.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: Output lost in babyface proFS. Comes back after a change in buffers

I just unplugged the anker usb hub and nothing changed.

Would you suggest disabling the on board sound card from bios ?

Dimitris
Ryzen5 3600XT, Nvidia 1650, Win 10, Cubase 11 pro, BBF ProFS, Rode NT1a, CC121, ADA8200

Re: Output lost in babyface proFS. Comes back after a change in buffers

Not really convinced, but yes, simply try.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: Output lost in babyface proFS. Comes back after a change in buffers

lightbox wrote:

In your video I noticed that when you change the buffer size, Cubase won't automatically update Input Latency and Output Latency. This is weird because it used to do that. I tried on my workstation using Cubase 11 Pro and the RME UFX+ and the same happens.
No automatic update of the displayed latencies .... as if the handshaking/reporting would fail.
My workstation (Windows 10) is updated to the latest release but I can't tell for sure whether the latest Windows update has changed this.

Might be something for @MC to look into!

PS: I can even replicate the audio being lost after  a buffer size change ... until I reset in the "Audio System" screen.


I am not sure I understand what you mean, or maybe I had not noticed that. I have the BBF since last May

Dimitris
Ryzen5 3600XT, Nvidia 1650, Win 10, Cubase 11 pro, BBF ProFS, Rode NT1a, CC121, ADA8200

30 (edited by musfiqlitu 2021-02-17 20:50:25)

Re: Output lost in babyface proFS. Comes back after a change in buffers

Hello. I  bought babyface pro fs just 1 month  ago. Every thing was ok. Last week I went to a vacation. After come back, I found my device has no sound Both output+ headphone out.even no input signal in both xlr mic input. In daw and windows, there is no sound.only has output level meter signal both out+ phones. But no sound out to monitor or phones.....Pls  help.....

31 (edited by d.panagiotidis 2021-02-17 21:48:36)

Re: Output lost in babyface proFS. Comes back after a change in buffers

lightbox wrote:
d.panagiotidis wrote:

I am not sure I understand what you mean

In Cubase, go to the menu "Studio / Studio Setup".
The screen that appears in your video at 0:14 shows "Input Latency: 6.3ms" and "Output Latency: 6.7ms" values in the top right.
Once you change and confirm the buffer size via the Button "Control Panel" ... the values of Input Latency and Output Latency should automatically update. You change the buffer from 256 to 128, click ok and at 0:23 the displayed latencies do NOT automatically update to e.g. 3.6ms ... they stay the same like nothing has changed at all. And that's not the expected behavior.

Oh OK I got it now.
But I am not the one to explain why this happens or what might cause this

Do you mean that it used to do that?
How long ago?

Dimitris
Ryzen5 3600XT, Nvidia 1650, Win 10, Cubase 11 pro, BBF ProFS, Rode NT1a, CC121, ADA8200

Re: Output lost in babyface proFS. Comes back after a change in buffers

lightbox wrote:
d.panagiotidis wrote:

Do you mean that it used to do that?

Yes, it used to update automatically ... a while ago. Can't tell how long, to be honest. I rarely have to switch buffer size so it might have been weeks, months, maybe even a year or so.
When you watch your own video, at some point you click a "Reset" button and this causes the latencies in the same screen to update. But for some unknown reason it won't automatically update after a buffer size change anymore.

That's why I wrote that MC might want to have a look into that if possible. No idea if that's an issue with Windows or an issue with a Cubase update or if that's something RME would have to fix in their driver due to some unknown changes in e.g. Windows 10.


as a matter of fact @ramses told me some days ago that changing buffers is actually doing a reset, or better two, and is a way to wake the asio driver if it falls into sleep or gets unlocked...
Don't know...
Still searching...

Dimitris
Ryzen5 3600XT, Nvidia 1650, Win 10, Cubase 11 pro, BBF ProFS, Rode NT1a, CC121, ADA8200

Re: Output lost in babyface proFS. Comes back after a change in buffers

lightbox wrote:

Watch the following video even though it is german language. You'll understand anyhow. (starting 1:35 - 2:05)
https://youtu.be/kIsi1hgyTe4?t=95
You see how the latency values immediately update after the buffer size change is confirmed. It doesn't do that anymore.

Of course, I'm not 100% sure what's going on. But it seems like the RME buffer size actually changes but Cubase doesn't know about this change.


Yes I can understand basic German.
I see what you mean.
I really do not remember what happened with my focusrite card, I never looked so close with the RME...
strange.
Perhaps someone else can eplain.

Dimitris
Ryzen5 3600XT, Nvidia 1650, Win 10, Cubase 11 pro, BBF ProFS, Rode NT1a, CC121, ADA8200

34

Re: Output lost in babyface proFS. Comes back after a change in buffers

lightbox wrote:

In your video I noticed that when you change the buffer size, Cubase won't automatically update Input Latency and Output Latency. This is weird because it used to do that.

AFAIK it never did that as long as you just work with a single stereo bus. It required multichannel operation to do so.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

35

Re: Output lost in babyface proFS. Comes back after a change in buffers

You do notice that we are talking about Windows ASIO here?

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: Output lost in babyface proFS. Comes back after a change in buffers

MC wrote:

You do notice that we are talking about Windows ASIO here?


??

Dimitris
Ryzen5 3600XT, Nvidia 1650, Win 10, Cubase 11 pro, BBF ProFS, Rode NT1a, CC121, ADA8200

37

Re: Output lost in babyface proFS. Comes back after a change in buffers

The other reason it doesn't update could be that ASIO is disabled in background. Cubase has such a setting.

Apart from that all we need to confirm is that the OP adds another audio bus and tries again. His video clearly showed only one stereo bus was active.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: Output lost in babyface proFS. Comes back after a change in buffers

MC wrote:

The other reason it doesn't update could be that ASIO is disabled in background. Cubase has such a setting.

Apart from that all we need to confirm is that the OP adds another audio bus and tries again. His video clearly showed only one stereo bus was active.


I will try that, but imho I believe will do nothing, since all my projects usually have one stereo bus and have been transferred (actually are opened from the same portable disk) to the new computer. And were working fine in the old one.
This happens only with the new computer and whenever it wants.
A flawlessly running project may have been closed yesterday when the buffer setting was for example 256 and the next day it will not have output until this come and go between changes in buffers takes place.

I still did not understand what you meant in #40

Dimitris
Ryzen5 3600XT, Nvidia 1650, Win 10, Cubase 11 pro, BBF ProFS, Rode NT1a, CC121, ADA8200