Topic: Instrument inputs sound weak and distorted on RME Babyface pro

I want to connect my digital piano to the RME instrument inputs, to both of them for stereo.
What I want is to be able to navigate between my digital piano sound and my virtual instruments sound, so I need to hear my digital piano through my RME Babyface pro.

But my digital piano sound weak and distorted through the Babyface Pro.
It has some weird phenomena, that the distortion appear more when my PC do more tasks, if I'm not touching my PC and Softwares aren't opened I hear less noise\distortion, and not only that: I'm using wireless mouse, and whenever I'm moving it I hear noise\distortion from the instrument inputs.

Re: Instrument inputs sound weak and distorted on RME Babyface pro

Hello!

What is the buffer setting you are using?
Have you tried increasing it?

Also, are you using a laptop, PC or Mac?
What Operating System?

About the mouse, it's either a ground loop or a cable susceptible to electromagnetic interference.

RME Gear: Digiface USB, HDSP 9632

Re: Instrument inputs sound weak and distorted on RME Babyface pro

PC, Windows 10.
I have to learn about ground loop and how to handle it, I don't really know about stuff to much.
About the buffer settings, where do I set it? In the Totalmix?

Re: Instrument inputs sound weak and distorted on RME Babyface pro

Where you open TotalMix there is another icon that looks like fire. Click on that to open the driver settings. You could do with a di box to left the ground. These boxes isolate using transformers.

Babyface Pro Fs, Behringer ADA8200, win 10/11 PCs, Cubase/Wavelab, Adam A7X monitors.

Re: Instrument inputs sound weak and distorted on RME Babyface pro

About ground loop, here's a link:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_lo … tricity%29

An easy-to-try solution is to connect all your equipment to the same power outlet.

About the buffer setting, it is located in the RME Driver Settings.
There must be a small icon at the right side of your Windows taskbar. If you can't find it, check if it's hidden!

RME Gear: Digiface USB, HDSP 9632

Re: Instrument inputs sound weak and distorted on RME Babyface pro

MetalHeadKeys wrote:

Hello!

What is the buffer setting you are using?
Have you tried increasing it?

Also, are you using a laptop, PC or Mac?
What Operating System?

About the mouse, it's either a ground loop or a cable susceptible to electromagnetic interference.

Buffer settings are 512, but what does it has to do with the instrument inputs?

Re: Instrument inputs sound weak and distorted on RME Babyface pro

I read at your first post that the distortion occurs when your pc executes more tasks, and that made me think that there is a high CPU load.
So I thought that maybe your buffer setting was too low and the CPU couldn't handle the load.

When this happens, the result sounds like distortion! That's why I suggested that you checked that, first!

RME Gear: Digiface USB, HDSP 9632

Re: Instrument inputs sound weak and distorted on RME Babyface pro

When the distortion occurs, do you have a DAW session opened? or when you 're just monitoring your piano through TotaMixFX?

RME Gear: Digiface USB, HDSP 9632

Re: Instrument inputs sound weak and distorted on RME Babyface pro

I thought that buffer size relevant only for controlling virtual instruments, not for audio inputs.

10 (edited by MetalHeadKeys 2021-01-16 23:05:30)

Re: Instrument inputs sound weak and distorted on RME Babyface pro

The buffer, in a simple explanation, is the amount of information(at a given time-frame) that the driver sends to the CPU for processing. That's why the latency increases when you increase the buffer!

EDIT:When the CPU doen't have enough time to process the info, then stutter is created which sounds like distortion! It's not that the Inputs get distorted!

So when does the distortion happen? When you have a DAW session opened? or just monitoring your piano through TotalMixFX?

RME Gear: Digiface USB, HDSP 9632

Re: Instrument inputs sound weak and distorted on RME Babyface pro

If it happens only through TotalMix, and no other applications are opened, and if you have your digital piano connected to Inst Inputs 3 and 4, then you can, also, check the "Reference level" for those inputs in TMFX.

You can find this setting if you click the 'Tool' button next to those Inputs. If it is set to '+4dBu' change it to '-10dBV' and vice versa.

RME Gear: Digiface USB, HDSP 9632

12

Re: Instrument inputs sound weak and distorted on RME Babyface pro

To me all this sounds like an extreme ground loop, a bit misleading described by the OP.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: Instrument inputs sound weak and distorted on RME Babyface pro

Hello MC!

Yeah! I thought so, too!
My second thought was that maybe it's both ground loop and high CPU load(old PC maybe). Maybe, a broken cable, as well !

So I thought we could find the solution by ruling out one of them, and focus on the other!

RME Gear: Digiface USB, HDSP 9632

Re: Instrument inputs sound weak and distorted on RME Babyface pro

OK I'm trying to connect my digital piano to my Babyface Pro again right now, I also think it is ground\earth loop, but I don't know how to solve this problem.

Re: Instrument inputs sound weak and distorted on RME Babyface pro

Sounds like you need a di box. I have a passive one which just has a couple of transformers in it to isolate I use when I plug my Roland drum module in to any interface I use as it always hums.

Does your keyboard have spdif out? I know a lot do but they tend to be a phono socket. You can get electrical to optical converters though.

Babyface Pro Fs, Behringer ADA8200, win 10/11 PCs, Cubase/Wavelab, Adam A7X monitors.

Re: Instrument inputs sound weak and distorted on RME Babyface pro

Good idea about Spdif!

But the first step is to connect all your devices: PC, computer monitors, audio monitors, digital piano and any other device in your signal chain, to the same Power Outlet, using a good Power strip.

Also, which digital piano are you using? Can you post a link?
And what type of cables?

RME Gear: Digiface USB, HDSP 9632

Re: Instrument inputs sound weak and distorted on RME Babyface pro

Keyboard - Kawai MP11SE:
https://kawaius.com/product/mp11se/

Cables: Balanced PL cables.

Re: Instrument inputs sound weak and distorted on RME Babyface pro

Thanks for the link!

The Kawai's Outputs are Unbalanced! So a balanced cable does not make this a balanced connection.

Are you connecting it to Instrument Inputs 3 and 4? Perhaps this creates the ground loop. Inst 3/4 Inputs are Unbalanced.
Can you try with Unbalanced cables?

RME Gear: Digiface USB, HDSP 9632

Re: Instrument inputs sound weak and distorted on RME Babyface pro

Looking at the spec it does have balanced outputs mentioned in other for outputs. You may be better running from the unbalanced outputs into 3 and 4 as these inputs are unbalanced. I see no point in using the balanced outputs unless you go into inputs 1 and 2 on the bf.

Babyface Pro Fs, Behringer ADA8200, win 10/11 PCs, Cubase/Wavelab, Adam A7X monitors.

Re: Instrument inputs sound weak and distorted on RME Babyface pro

@mkok

Yes, you 're right about the XLR Outputs!! Seems a bit odd to list those in the "others' section, especially for such a good instrument!

@hag01
What mkok has said! Also, if you 're going to use Inputs 1 and 2, don't forget to activate "Pad" and make sure that +48V is turned off!

RME Gear: Digiface USB, HDSP 9632

Re: Instrument inputs sound weak and distorted on RME Babyface pro

I switched to unbalanced cables, it didn't help.
I reduced to volume at TotalMix and then increased the volume on the MP11SE, it helped, to a point that when I'm not doing anything on my computer, there is no or almost no buzzing noise.
It still annoying.

I'm hearing the same buzzing noise from my Hi-Fi stereo system that connected to the Babayface Pro.

So you're saying DI Box is the solution?
I don't even know what is DI Box. I googled it, seems like a lot of material to read.

Re: Instrument inputs sound weak and distorted on RME Babyface pro

To double check have you tried connecting fully balanced? So XLR in on inputs 1 and 2 on the Babyface and XLR outputs from the keyboard. If you try this and there is no noise then it definitely sounds like a grounding issue. Make sure phantom power is turned off.

D.I boxes are used all the time live and in the studio. The only thing is they go from unbalanced to balanced whereas you need to go from unbalanced to unbalanced or balanced to unbalanced. It would be good to hear what you hear as I wouldn’t describe a ground loop sound as distorted. It’s a noise behind the actual signal which is annoying but it’s not distorted. May be you could get a recording of the noise and drop a link on here. I think we would need to hear the noise while your not playing the keyboard for a while then play a while and stop again. Just so we can hear what the noise is like with no signal and with a signal.

Babyface Pro Fs, Behringer ADA8200, win 10/11 PCs, Cubase/Wavelab, Adam A7X monitors.

Re: Instrument inputs sound weak and distorted on RME Babyface pro

I think I used the wrong words in my OP, let me fix it: the sound is not distorted at all, I just hear additional buzzing noise, which is additional to everything that comes out of the Babayface Pro outputs - headphones and speakers - which sound normal but with the additional buzzing noise.

About the XLR attempt, I don't have such spare XLR cables right now.

Re: Instrument inputs sound weak and distorted on RME Babyface pro

Hello!

hag01 wrote:

I'm hearing the same buzzing noise from my Hi-Fi stereo system that connected to the Babayface Pro.

How is that connected to the BF Pro?

Also, you don't need a DI box! The MP11SE XLR Outputs have a ground lift switch!
So, if you use a Balanced 'female XLR to male XLR' or 'female XLR to TRS' cable, into Inputs 1 and 2 of the BF Pro, you 'll be ok!
Of course, "+48V" setting -> Off !!

RME Gear: Digiface USB, HDSP 9632

Re: Instrument inputs sound weak and distorted on RME Babyface pro

MetalHeadKeys wrote:

Hello!

hag01 wrote:

I'm hearing the same buzzing noise from my Hi-Fi stereo system that connected to the Babayface Pro.

How is that connected to the BF Pro?

Also, you don't need a DI box! The MP11SE XLR Outputs have a ground lift switch!
So, if you use a Balanced 'female XLR to male XLR' or 'female XLR to TRS' cable, into Inputs 1 and 2 of the BF Pro, you 'll be ok!
Of course, "+48V" setting -> Off !!

My Babyface Pro is connected to my Hi-Fi amplifier through balanced XLR cables that comes out of the Babyface Pro's XLR outputs(my amplifier has XLR inputs), and my Hi-Fi are speakers connected to my amplifier.

Re: Instrument inputs sound weak and distorted on RME Babyface pro

MetalHeadKeys wrote:

Hello!

hag01 wrote:

I'm hearing the same buzzing noise from my Hi-Fi stereo system that connected to the Babayface Pro.

How is that connected to the BF Pro?

Also, you don't need a DI box! The MP11SE XLR Outputs have a ground lift switch!
So, if you use a Balanced 'female XLR to male XLR' or 'female XLR to TRS' cable, into Inputs 1 and 2 of the BF Pro, you 'll be ok!
Of course, "+48V" setting -> Off !!

So you're saying all I need is two XLR standard balanced cables, and I'm good?

Should I turn the MP11SE's ground lift switch on or off?

I'm sorry but I'm a real layman when it comes to electricity and electronics. I must learn some basic electricity and electronics soon, feels like I have great hole in my education...

Re: Instrument inputs sound weak and distorted on RME Babyface pro

Should I turn the MP11SE's ground lift switch on or off?

Ground lift should be OFF.

Set it ON for listening and when the noise is less or gone, then let it ON.

M1-Sonoma, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue

Re: Instrument inputs sound weak and distorted on RME Babyface pro

@hag01

First, you need to connect all your equipment(PC, Kawai, Hi-Fi, pc monitor) to the same wall plug, using a good power strip!!
Then, with the XLR cables, I think you 'll be ok!!

Connect your Kawai with the XLR cables and check if the noise is gone! If you, still, hear noise, then try the ground lift switch(as waedi said) and check if the noise is gone!

If the noise is still there, after all of the above, then you should try using your BF Pro with the external Power Supply!

Please, report back!

RME Gear: Digiface USB, HDSP 9632

Re: Instrument inputs sound weak and distorted on RME Babyface pro

I want to connect my digital piano to the RME instrument inputs, to both of them for stereo.

But the instrument inputs are not good for the piano.
You have to use Line-inputs.
Just do not click that instrument button in Totalmix.
Sorry for telling you that your instrument is not an instrument it is a Line-Level-Signal-Source.

M1-Sonoma, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue

30

Re: Instrument inputs sound weak and distorted on RME Babyface pro

waedi wrote:

I want to connect my digital piano to the RME instrument inputs, to both of them for stereo.

That was a quote from hag01. Please use proper editing or posts here become hard to understand.

waedi wrote:

But the instrument inputs are not good for the piano. You have to use Line-inputs.

That's just wrong.

waedi wrote:

Just do not click that instrument button in Totalmix.

There is no Instrument button in the Babyface Pro.

waedi wrote:

Sorry for telling you that your instrument is not an instrument it is a Line-Level-Signal-Source.

Doesn't matter at all. The OP has a classical ground loop problem and needs to manage that. One way to cure it is using an USB isolator like the Intona. There may be cheaper solutions, though. Note that this topic has been discussed up and down here and all over the web.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: Instrument inputs sound weak and distorted on RME Babyface pro

I may be moving to a new apartment in a few months, maybe in the new apartment there will not be a ground loop.
I barely have a space for more cables here anyway(that's one of the reasons I want move form here).