1 (edited by JackyG 2021-03-31 12:35:15)

Topic: ADI-2 connection

Hi everyone

I borrowed a ADI-2 FS for capturing some vinyl (first time I'm using it)
I plugged my phono preamp to the ADI-2 with 6.3 mm jack.
Can I send the audio directly to my computer or do I need to go through my usb audio interface ?

Thanks

2 (edited by waedi 2021-03-31 12:39:36)

Re: ADI-2 connection

ADI-2 FS is a converter but not an interface, you have to connect it to an audio interface.
Has your USB audio interface adat connection ?
Further help needs more information, what your interface is.

M1-Sonoma, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue

Re: ADI-2 connection

Sorry I forgot to mention it, my interface is the Audient iD14, it has adat connector

Re: ADI-2 connection

Do you know how to connect it ?

M1-Sonoma, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue

Re: ADI-2 connection

No I never used it

6 (edited by waedi 2021-03-31 13:52:08)

Re: ADI-2 connection

The audient has a computer program for configuration and settings.
There is a clock source setting, you should set this to external adat.
If there is a sample rate to choose, take 48kHz.

On the front of the ADI-2 there are some buttons.
click the clock button several times for 48.
Button DIG OUT set to adat.
Let's start with 48 kHz sampling frequency, you can change this any time to higher if you like.
DS means double speed 96 kHz
QS means quadrospeed 192 kHz.
Just do the same setting in the computer.

You need two adat optical light pipe toslink cables.
From out to in. Both.

Your vinyl music should be then available in the computer for recording.
Do you have a DAW software installed for recording ?
I assume you want to make recordings...?

M1-Sonoma, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue

Re: ADI-2 connection

Thanks Waedi, very much appreciated.

If I have understood correctly I just need to set the clock and the dig out button ?

Yes totally. I already have Audacity on my computer.
So I just need to buy something like that:
https://www.thomann.de/gb/optical_kabel_1m.htm

8 (edited by torbenscharling 2021-03-31 15:48:44)

Re: ADI-2 connection

44khz is the industry standard made for audio, cd’s, mp3 etc. 48khz is usually for audio in video, but even youtube uses 44 wink Ideally choose to record at 32 or 64bit float or at least 24bit. Then you can always render it down in size and quality as you see fit. Cheers.

Re: ADI-2 connection

Yes two of those cables. It is possible to run it with one cable only but it is better to connect both ways.
Yes on the ADi-2 front DIG OUT set to adat, and CLOCK set to 48 (that means clock internal).
In the computer in the interface settings clock source set to external adat.
Sample rate same as the other device 48.
You can connect the phono preamp directly to the interface and try to record the stereosignal.
Then you are well prepared for the show with the toslink cabling.

M1-Sonoma, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue

10 (edited by ramses 2021-04-01 06:53:38)

Re: ADI-2 connection

waedi wrote:

The audient has a computer program for configuration and settings.
There is a clock source setting, you should set this to external adat.
If there is a sample rate to choose, take 48kHz.

On the front of the ADI-2 there are some buttons.
click the clock button several times for 48.
Button DIG OUT set to adat.
Let's start with 48 kHz sampling frequency, you can change this any time to higher if you like.
DS means double speed 96 kHz
QS means quadrospeed 192 kHz.
Just do the same setting in the computer.

You need two adat optical light pipe toslink cables.
From out to in. Both.

Your vinyl music should be then available in the computer for recording.
Do you have a DAW software installed for recording ?
I assume you want to make recordings...?

@waedi: allow me a few comments. Technically no objection, it will work this way, but I would like to show him the two different possibilities, so that he can choose later what he prefers and how he wants to use/operate his devices. Because there are pros and cons to choose either ADI-2 FS or Audient as clock master.

@JackyG: some additional information for you..

ADI-2 FS as clock master?

In this case - and if nothing else is being connected to the ADI-2 FS (e.g. monitors, phones) - you only need 1 TOSLINK cable from ADI-2 FS to the Audient for the transfer of audio and clock information. If he should have nothing else connected to the ADI-2 FS, then the 2nd TOSLINK cable is of no use and its maybe only "in the way". At least technical its not required from what we know up to now from the setup.

This setup - with ADI-2 FS as clock master - might be a little bit difficult to operate for him, because then he needs to set clock rates at 2 places
- ADI-2 FS
- Application with ASIO driver
If he is recording only in rare cases, ok then this is not so important.
But he might use the PC like me for playing audio. And if he should have audio content of different sample rates, then it would be very cumbersome having to switch sample rates at the ADI-2 FS whenever the sample rate changes.

Audient as clock master might have advantages

Therefore I would propose to use the Audient as clock master and to configure the ADI-2 FS as clock slave.
Then his applications (be it music player with ASIO support or a DAW program for recording) set the sample rate.
The Audient will get the proper sample rate automatically via it's ASIO driver.
The ADI-2 FS will learn the sample rate through ADAT.
For THIS setup you need two cables, because at least the clock information needs to be transferred from Audient to ADI-2 FS through ADAT.

For recording audio

For recording of Audio you should use a reliable recording program which allows the use of an ASIO driver.
As already suggested a DAW program comes to mind ... Can be any starter version of e.g. Cubase, Reaper, ...
An ASIO driver bypasses the Windows audio system entirely, by this its easier to achieve a high quality.
When configuring the ASIO driver, then use a very high ASIO buffersize, because for such recordings the focus is reliability (not low latency) to avoid any potential audio drop on your computer.

Please note, with higher sample rates also the ASIO buffersizes become bigger, double size for double speed, 4 times the size at quad speed. So should you experiment with different sample rates please also take a look at the ASIO buffer size.

Further recommendations / ideas

For recording:

1. Regarding the selection of sample rate when recording vinyl. As vinyl doesn't reach the dynamics of a CD it should be fully sufficient to record at CD standards and this is 44.1 kHz and 16 Bit bit depth. I wouldn't choose 48kHz here because it won't bring you any advantage and because then you have the same sample rate like your ripped CDs (if you have some). Higher Sample Rates and Bit Depths produce only longer bigger files for no reason.

2. I would convert these wave files to FLAC which is an open lossless standard to save some space as it compresses the content (lossless!)

For your setup:

3. I would use this connection also for connecting his main monitors (maybe also phones(, beause I think that the technical data / audio quality of the ADI-2 FS could better compared to the audient.

4. Another thing that you could think of on the long run is to replace the audient with a RME recording interface, because then you have definitively a better and more powerful mixer software and other advantages of RME.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: ADI-2 connection

Thanks for all the information.

The thing is that my Audient has optical input only, so I suppose I will need to use ADI-2 FS as clock master

Wouldn't you recommend Audacity or Audition for recording audio ?

12 (edited by ramses 2021-04-01 12:49:07)

Re: ADI-2 connection

> The thing is that my Audient has optical input only, so I suppose I will need to use ADI-2 FS as clock master

Oh, bad luck. Regarding your other questions:

Audacity has no ASIO support. I don't know whether Adobe Audition has, but tbh, I wouldn't buy any cloud product where you need to pay a monthly fee. Never ever and some Adobe products have IMHO not the desired quality and stability that you would expect from the name Adobe.

Any DAW will have all the basic function that you need for recording and also audio editing and mastering.
As an alternative to a DAW program could be Steinberg Wavelab Elements which also has ASIO support. This is a professional audio editor and mastering suite, which could be ideal for any post-precessing if you want such a function.

This article could be of interest for you it mentions different professional methods from mastering engineers and also mentions some tools among that also wavelab, but also others: https://www.soundandrecording.de/tutori … lle-weise/

Addition to sample rate and bit depth for recording: if you want to restore (+) the wave files afterwards, you might want to record in double speed, either 88.2 or 96 kHz and with 24 bit bit depth.
(+) If you want to render the files in 44.1 kHz after processing, I would record in 88.2 kHz if you want to render in 48 kHz in 96kHz. Then you might get less artifacts when rendering down.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

13 (edited by KaiS 2021-04-01 13:59:44)

Re: ADI-2 connection

If you want to use a soft to reduce vinyl clicks and crackles I suggest to record in 88.2 or 96 kHz.
Clicks contain ultrasonic components in an amount that audio doesn’t.
This fact eases the job of the cleaning software, identifying and separate them from what to keep.

Re: ADI-2 connection

ramses wrote:

4. Another thing that you could think of on the long run is to replace the audient with a RME recording interface, because then you have definitively a better and more powerful mixer software and other advantages of RME.

Something like the Babyface Pro ?


ramses wrote:

Audacity has no ASIO support.

I have a custom version of Audacity with ASIO support, I will do some tests. Otherwise, Wavelab seems a good alternative.

KaiS wrote:

Clicks contain ultrasonic components in an amount that audio doesn’t.

Good to know, thanks!

15 (edited by ramses 2021-04-02 18:52:53)

Re: ADI-2 connection

JackyG wrote:
ramses wrote:

4. Another thing that you could think of on the long run is to replace the audient with a RME recording interface, because then you have definitively a better and more powerful mixer software and other advantages of RME.

Something like the Babyface Pro ?

Yes, one of different possibilities. Attractive in terms of price and form factor. Can be used either with power supply or bus powered. This is a good interface.

I would recommend though, to get the latest version: "Babyface Pro FS". The product page tells, what is new: https://www.rme-audio.de/de_babyface-pro-fs.html

For a list of RME USB and FW recording interfaces and the differences in terms of features you can have a look at an Excel that I put together with information from manual, product page and partially from forum. Not included are e.g. AVB/Dante interfaces and PCI/PCIe cards.
Link to the blog article: https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/ind … B-MADIfac/
Link to the Excel: https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/index.ph … 0-08-xlsx/

JackyG wrote:
ramses wrote:

Audacity has no ASIO support.

I have a custom version of Audacity with ASIO support, I will do some tests. Otherwise, Wavelab seems a good alternative.

I know .. It's forbidden by license to offer this version with ASIO support for download, but you are allowed to download the ASIO library from Steinberg and to compile it on your own from sources using the M$ Compiler. I can tell you, this is royal pain and for me it didn't succeed, I am more used to unix dev environments.
I personally do not like the audacity GUI, but tastes are different. I could use either Cubase or Wavelab.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: ADI-2 connection

I got the toslink cable and I was able to make some tests.

First I tried with Audacity. I could see the sound in the Audient iD mixer but nothing when I I was doing the recording.
I realized that I need to change the channels setup from "2 (stereo)" to "4". I gave up the idea of using Audacity.

So I choose to take Izotope RX as free trial. I set up the recording input like that:
- 0 [L/Mono] : ADAT 1
- 1 [R] : ADAT 2
and it's working.

I tried recordings without audio source at different levels. The last seems to be the one with the lowest noise.
https://i.imgur.com/axHLuMB.jpeg

Also, we can see a wavelet at top of each channel. Is it the signal of the converter ?

17 (edited by torbenscharling 2021-04-09 16:39:27)

Re: ADI-2 connection

Could anyone clarify why it's "too bad" he has to use the ADI-2 as clock master? I'd think it either A: Makes on difference, or B: Would be equal or better to have the RME as clock master? I assume it's something about having the master clock at the source ie receiving end is better ? In my situation I can have the RayDat, ADI-2 or BF as master currently use RayDat (ie Internal) as Master clock source...

EDIT: To clarify my question I guess I need some technical info as to why and how this works, as I don't quite understand the technical benifit (I understand that it can be less cumbersome to not have to set individual settings, though that is usually why you would switch up the master I guess...) but other than that, how does it work? I could have my ADI-2 be at double speed for instance and use that as the master...right now I'm doing 44 on all 3, with adat 1 and adat 2 synced to the RayDat as master..

Double edit: This is obviously disregarding situations like MC and the OP mentions, where one unit only has digital input. But assuming both/any unit connected could be set to master, (otherwise my question itself makes no sense), my (off topic) question regarding why choose one over the other has not been answered. We clarified that it's because it hasn't got digital output - ok. Let's pretend it had...I get the official response would be, that since it has SteadyClock (FS) it won't matter which one is Master, yet I keep reading these hints about choosing this or that as Master to get better clocking..Bottom line I'd like some assurance on is: Is there a difference to what device you choose as Master? I realize there are practical issues like having too push knobs when changing sample rates - but what would the explanation be to prefering one over the other, say Internal (when talking about PC/Mac) or by using say an external dac like the ADI-"X" clock at the source going in (dac) or at the receiving (internal) end ?  I guess I just need to find some info that teaches me how digital REALLY works...I've come close but not fully had a proper explanation of it, hence why I'm a bit critical when I hear choose this over that, when I percieve no difference choosing either - though I have no idea how these things would potentially effect a low latency system operating at it's limits which would hold the clock best, keep things click free etc. I dunno this is just a fascinating topic to me - getting the best tightest fastest chain I can afford and figure out how to set up smile

18

Re: ADI-2 connection

ramses clearly explained that in detail in post 10. As the Audient has no digital out it can not be master, so convenience is lowered. Operation and quality will be the same, as the digital data recorded through the ID14 are the same as the ones sent from the ADI-2 FS.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME