Hi Johnny,

I'm sorry to hear that this happened to you with your active speakers. Well, unfortunately what has happened now has happened, so I can only make these suggestions to you in the hope that this doesn't happen again.

This sticky article describes e.g. well how to take precautions: https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=25399

The solution you need for your setup is either such an attenuator or a monitor controller.

I bought these attenuators as test for another setup and kept them as reserve, just for the case that I need them in the future. They are switchable between -10, -20 and -30dB, have a robust design and don't cost much: https://www.thomann.de/de/jts_ma_123.htm.

In the past (at the beginning) and before getting the ADI-2 Pro (which also works as kind of monitor controller in my setup) I wasn't willed to spend money on a monitor controller and didn't know the solution with the attenuators, so I had to help myself ... here a few tips:

When buying loudspeakers, make sure that they can be connected analogue and have a volume pot if possible.  With a digital connection you don't have a volume pot, you always have 0dB full volume.
Apart from attenuators and monitor controllers, a volume pot (if possible) is the safest way to reduce the volume regardless of the state and settings of the recording interface.
This can be accompanied by setting all analog outputs for active monitors and phones to a lower / to the lowest reference level, which reduces the overall volume.

You can also take a little precaution in TotalMix FX by first creating a setup in which all speakers and headphone outputs in the control room are set to a comfortable initial volume. I then proactively save these settings to all other 7 snapshots. In the 8th snapshot, I also mute all HW outputs as "emergency off".

This should be accompanied with the following TM FX settings in preferences:
1. [x] Always init DSP devices with TM FX settings
2. snapshots do not load "--".
Then the recording interface is initialised with the TM FX settings when the computer is started and you login and when recalling other TM FX snapshots, then this predefined (low) value is being used, so that you are on the safe side.

If you use your snapshots mainly for routing purposes, then the use of attenuators or a monitor controller is required, so that the volume doesn't change when recalling snapshots.

Without attenuators or monitor controller be careful, you can still set the wrong fader to 0dB if you are in a hurry or if you erraneously double click to the faders in the TotalMix FX control room (or active monitors or phones).

Therefore there is no other way, you really have to take this problem seriously and take precautions with e.g. the purchase of attenuators or using a monitor controller to solve such level mismatches.

Also on the ADI-2 Pro (which always remembers the laste state / volume) I decided to set the last button "Setup" to "Mute all", because I can then immediately mute monitors and headphones with a practised hand movement. And you should practise such emergency off hand movements.

Additionally I stored the snapshot values to the preset 1 of my recording interface just for the case if needed there in stand-alone operation mode.

You can also store the settings in the Workspace Quick Select Slots, if you use slot number 1, 2, 3 then you can quickly restore your TM FX snapshots with the key combination ALT-1, ALT-2, ALT-3 ..

Last but not least I organizedy, that I can reach the on/off switch of my power strip easily, also kind of emergency off which might be useful.

I hope I could give you some helpful suggestions, cheer up!

> I accidentally pressed F5 or F6 or F7 or F8 when moving the keyboard and it reset all the faders and maxed the Outputs !!

Just to clarify: F4 to F8 load Snapshot 1 to 5, so they don't do anything unusual.

That is not logical at all and will make our support and hotline answer only one question a million times per day - why don't I hear sound? Using lowered fader settings is also not logical, users expect a transparent (out of the way) mixer as default.

Just a RME user here. I am truly sorry to hear of you mishap.
Your idea of setting the amps to max is dead wrong though, it has no positive effect, only risks as you painfully found out. It is like mixing a live concert with the main output at -30db and hoping no one will bump the fader. Of course it will eventually happen. In the digital domain it is even more dangerous, your computer can always accidentally spew out noise at 0db with a software crash or fault. If you have not set proper gain staging and\or have no analogue way of killing the sound, like a volume controller, something like this can happen way to easy, either by human or software error.
I hope the damage is not to big!

Muting outputs initially could cause much greater issues, i.e. if someone were to accidentally double-click on a fader and set it to 0 dB.

Please mind that 0dB is not "loud" inherently - it's analog level settings and specifcations that make the volume. If your speakers do not have analog level control, please consider an analog attenuator.

Sorry to hear that. I've been in similar scenarios, and it's the worst kind of issue for a musician.

Some tips, apart from what's already covered - reduce the monitors overall volume such that 0dB is not too loud and try to keep the mains out halfway through during monitoring, and rarely at 0dB. Goal here is, it should be loud at 0dB but not dangerously so.

Another idea is to slap a hardware compressor before the signal hits the monitors and this is what I've done. Set the threshold and knee correctly and the compressor won't kick in during normal operation. When it exceeds a certain threshold you'll see the lights go active so you know it's on.

I'm now weening off of it after adjusting my mains out though. Planning on re-purposing it as a vocal compressor now.

Hello Guys

Thanks for you reply

Nothing in my setup is that miss matched !! I'm using -10dBV output setting on the sound card
and I use the Output fader at 50% -75 % on average but 0db is a bit too loud! Although I have not killed the speakers totally, they need replacing as the don't sound as pristine as they once did, before Total Mix maxed outputs to 0db for about 10 seconds before I killed the power.

I like running my setup this way, as the sound quality is crystal clear and sounds amazing. I design electronics and i know that the least resistance in any signal path ensures a cleaner signal for source to destination in the analog world. Every components generates noise and distortion, Resistors are notoriously noisy.

Though I appreciate what people are saying, about running at 0db

But lets get real, moving a computer keyboard when in Total Mix and catching function key by mistake should NOT destroy my speakers.

It's a crazy approach that RME engineers think their valued customers should by default have to set all output mix banks to infinity ! Just to prevent LOUD 0db outputs when you least expect it !

Really ? poor show.

At least have some sympathy and reply back with "Yes, thank you for bringing your issue to our attention, we apologize for this inconvenience and speaker loss you have suffered, to safe guard any future customers suffering the same problems. The very least we can do is add an option in Total Mix software to disable Hot Keys"

This reply below is totally wrong !! and very arrogant, this man should have a little more compassion for RME customers and Never dismiss any suggestions they put forward

GIVE AN OPTION TO DISABLE HOT KEYS !! , OR EVEN BETTER SET ALL OUTPUTS LOW BY DEFAULT

OUTPUTS @0db BY DEFAULT ARE DANGEROUS

WRONG... IT IS VERY LOGICAL.....

if you are worried about RME support and people hearing no sound, set all outputs to -30db by default !

Then there will be sound, but it will not be damaging expensive items !

Worry about customers damaging there expensive studio kit when using Total Mix software

Matthias Carstens, you really should consider RME Customers with more compassion and have a better manor towards customer relations

You have not once replied with any consideration towards my financial loss and what I have suffered due to the way Total Mix and Hot Keys work. I invested in RME because I believe it is the best !

Though users having to set all outputs to infinity just to safe guard max 0db outputs IS WRONG !!

And I am NOT the only person saying this !!

I Rest My Case, could not agree more....

another person

My final thoughts

With any system... It's better to start with No Signal/No Sound and raise faders to desired levels to get sound, than to alternate/switch options/keys/mix banks and have MAXIMUM levels routed to any output !!

even more so when you least expect it !

It's a NO Brainer.....

Regards

Hello,

I have to repeat it, 0 dB is not "loud" - it's just the maximum digital level. The rest is a matter of analog circuitry.
If in your setup, levels at 0 dB were just "a bit too loud", then it should not be possible for that to cause any damage.
A setup where levels would accidentally jump from -30 to full level would be much more likely to do so.

If now you say the speakers aren't really damaged to the point where they no longer work, then it's really hard to tell what exactly happened.

And it would really be most logical to initially set up the system in a way that will prevent such issues, by making sure maximum levels all around do not cause damage. If that is not possible to set with only the interface and the speakers, then an analog attenuator will help, as it is quick and foolproof.