• Registered: 2019-12-10
  • Posts: 8

Topic: Adi 2 dac pro satellite + sub

Hello everyone,
I connected my pre-amp + power amplifier + 3-way satellites to the xlr outputs of the rme adi2 dac Pro.
then I connected an amplifier with volume control and integrated crossover to the unbalanced jack 6.3 outputs to manage a self-built subwoofer.
Through an Alps motorized potentiometer for the sub and the remote control of the pre for the satellites I am able to mix the volumes comfortably remotely. I would ask you if the temporal coherence is in your opinion respected with this configuration or if it was necessary to perform modifications / upgrades to obtain a perfect coupling between satellites and subs.

thanks in advance to those who want to help me

2 Reply by ozorfis (edited by ozorfis 2021-09-21 13:45:43)

  • Registered: 2020-10-18
  • Posts: 8

Re: Adi 2 dac pro satellite + sub

I guess with "temporal coherence" you mean phase. Usually the RCA ouput is directly connected to the positive signal of the balanced XLR connection. So they start in phase. If your following equipment and crossovers has any phaseshift/flip in it, probably only you can know. You can measure the arriving phase electrically with an osciolloscope or acoustically with a microphone.

My RME goes via XLR to preamp from preamp via XLR to balanced monoblocks. REL-sub is connected both via RCA to the preamp in stereo and the high level input from the right speaker (doesn´t work in stereo with balanced monoblocks). The little spoil of CMRR doesn´t bother me and I am happy with the result. If you are worried about "coherence" maybe you can DIY a high level input for your sub from the speakers (like REL does).

Best regards

3 Reply by Curt962 (edited by Curt962 2021-09-21 21:22:16)

  • Registered: 2019-01-07
  • Posts: 1,462

Re: Adi 2 dac pro satellite + sub

Hi Teddy!

I love a good "Sub Story"  wink

Long time Multi Sub user here, and have for Years, been under the Tutelage of one of the best.  His ideas/suggestions have always trumped any Audio nonsense I may have conjured up.

Maybe you could share with us some specifics.  Which Mains are you using?  Ported?  Sealed?

What about your Room?  Dimensions?

What types of placement limitations do you have in that space?  (We all have them)

In terms of Phase Alignment, this is usually quite easily measured with sftwr such as Room EQ Wizard.     I'm typically looking for a "notch" in the FR that may suggest a Sub Polarity issue which is easily corrected.

The Blauert/Laws studies of the 1970s give us some insights as to the Audibilty of these time-alignment matters.  Sadly, I don't have a link readily available, but you have Google as well as I.

*Edit:  Polarity, and Phase are not truly the same thing in this discussion.  Blauert/Laws looked at the audibility of Group Delay.  It seems that threshold was rather high (3.2ms at 500hz)

Were we to to extrapolate that to the frequencies a Sub is dealing with, we would be in the 30ms range.  That's 30ft!!  Unless you live in a Church, your Room probably wouldn't allow for such error.  Us folks in smaller rooms have far bigger Fish to Fry!  sad

Else...it gets involved, but not anything outside your ability to resolve.

Let's get you hooked up!!

Curt

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic AKM4490 Edition"
Cables:  Red, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes

4 Reply by KaiS (edited by KaiS 2021-09-21 23:33:24)

  • KaiS
  • DAW Mastermind
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  • From: Germany
  • Registered: 2020-02-05
  • Posts: 3,120

Re: Adi 2 dac pro satellite + sub

Teddy_k wrote:

Hello everyone,
I connected my pre-amp + power amplifier + 3-way satellites to the xlr outputs of the rme adi2 dac Pro.
then I connected an amplifier with volume control and integrated crossover to the unbalanced jack 6.3 outputs to manage a self-built subwoofer.
Through an Alps motorized potentiometer for the sub and the remote control of the pre for the satellites I am able to mix the volumes comfortably remotely. I would ask you if the temporal coherence is in your opinion respected with this configuration or if it was necessary to perform modifications / upgrades to obtain a perfect coupling between satellites and subs.

thanks in advance to those who want to help me

So you‘re running the main speakers full range and add the sub on top.
This is perfectly fine and, in my experience improves the bass quality by using the faster mains speakers for the bass too.

Here’s a guide how to set this up:
First, connect the sub amp to the preamp out too (2nd output or Y-split cable), so both sub and main speakers follow the same volume control.

Then go here, case 1 is for you:
https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.ph … 12#p155312

The idea is to remove a bit of bass energy from the main speakers with ADI-2’s EQ, then fill up and extend the bass with the sub.

With the aid of an inexpensive app, that turns an iPhone into a precise self-contained audio analyzer you can easily optimize the result, no guesswork.
https://apps.apple.com/de/app/audiotools/id325307477

KaiS's Website

  • Registered: 2019-12-10
  • Posts: 8

Re: Adi 2 dac pro satellite + sub

I thank you all for the answers and the support you are giving me.
my preamp has 1 xlr output and one rca output. I do not use the rca as it is very poorly performing, this does not allow me to have a single volume control for satellites and subs.
this however is not a big deal. I was just wondering if the rear outputs of the rme (xlr for pre + final + satellites and jack 6.3 for sub amp + sub ) can be correctly used in this configuration .. or if it would be more appropriate maybe to use the frontal phones stereo output for being able to also have the sub volume separated and controlled by rme (if that is possible..)
For now, it seems to me that the result is excellent, maybe it could be improved ..

Best regards
k

6 Reply by KaiS (edited by KaiS 2021-09-22 18:44:09)

  • KaiS
  • DAW Mastermind
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  • From: Germany
  • Registered: 2020-02-05
  • Posts: 3,120

Re: Adi 2 dac pro satellite + sub

It’s strange that the preamp’s RCA output is performing worse than the XLR.
Usually XLR is just 6 dB louder, but same sound.

Be it - use XLR splitter cables to connect the sub together with the main speakers.
This would be a 100% improvement of your setup.
https://www.thomann.de/de/cae_90074_yau … tkabel.htm

Or abandon the preamp, it’s obsolete anyway, ADI-2 can do it’s job.

ADI-2 Pro’s rear outputs (XLR for pre + final + satellites and jack 6.3 for sub amp + sub) can be correctly used in this configuration!
Or use the above mentioned XLR splitters, but only if you really need a balanced feed to the sub.

Keep the ‘phones output for ‘phones to make full use of ADI-2’s capabilities.

KaiS's Website

7 Reply by Curt962 (edited by Curt962 2021-09-22 18:08:54)

  • Registered: 2019-01-07
  • Posts: 1,462

Re: Adi 2 dac pro satellite + sub

Hi again Teddy!

My Subs (SVS) have a "Breakout" that allows me to send them a Balanced input, and then simply take an unaltered, balanced signal straight on to my Mains.  A "splitter" in so many words.  RME has conveniently utilized both RCA, and Balanced outputs that function simultaneously, so if your Sub(s) don't have a "Breakout" nothing is lost.  We would simply compensate for the Signal Level difference later in the set-up process.  Easy Peasy!

Subs (Two please!) when well integrated can really add to your enjoyment.

I can endorse KaiS's suggestion regarding dispensing with the Pre-Amp.   Unless you have Analog sources which require the Pre-Amp, I too believe that the Pre is only a compromise, and would sound far better when removed from the signal path entirely.  wink

Oh well..

Best!

Curt

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic AKM4490 Edition"
Cables:  Red, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes
  • Registered: 2019-12-10
  • Posts: 8

Re: Adi 2 dac pro satellite + sub

very good! thank you all for the support.
During the weekend I will do in-depth tests with a microphone to take measurements.
good music to all