Topic: Gain and volume

Hi! I am an beginner in v,dbu,db gain etc.

I have a simple question.
My smsl da 9 reading from specs has an input sensitivity of only 0.250 mv and impendence of 47kohm.
The vast majority of amplifiers I understand that had a much more impendence sensitivity generally 2v.
I connect my adi 2 dac thru xlr to my da 9 amplifier.

What gain step and volume should I use to attain so low 0.250mv.
Actually I stay on -5dBu and -20 dB but seems on the low side I do not think that da 9 will reach his 50w output in 8 ohm.
It is a good settings or perhaps are a better settings for improved resolution and dynamics?

Thank you!

Re: Gain and volume

Clearly it is not a good settings...even if from technicalities that I read should be good smile The amp volume is much to low. Please help, what gain and volume settings are best, taking in consideration that I use all dsp power...loudness/bass treble and eq.
Tx!

3 (edited by KaiS 2021-10-15 11:27:20)

Re: Gain and volume

What really matters in your case isn’t the sensitivity, but the maximum input level the SMSL DA 9 can take.
This value isn’t mentioned anywhere, neither in the manual nor in the net.
So we need a different approach.

• Switch back “on” ADI-2 DAC’s “Auto Reference Level”.
Now Volume is displayed in dBr instead of plain dB.

• If you do use Bluetooth, adjust ADI-2 DAC to about the same perceived loudness as your Bluetooth source.
A few dB less or more don’t matter.

• If you don’t use Bluetooth, set ADI-2 DAC to -19 dBr.
This setting is sufficient to fully drive your SMSL DA 9’s power amp, with some margin.




If you want to become an expert:

• Download this signal, 1kHz 0dBFS sinewave:
https://archiv.rme-audio.de/old/download/0_16.zip

• Set SMSL DA 9’s volume to a medium low level.

• Temporarily bypass ALL of ADI-2’s DSP functions

• Switch on ADI-2 DAC’s “Auto Reference Level”.

• Play the sinewave.

• Gradually bring up ADI-2’s Volume until the sinewave starts to sound distorted.
Dial back down ADI-2’s Volume 7 steps (-3.5 dBr).
Note down this value.

• This is the maximum level your SMSL DA 9 can take.

Re: Gain and volume

KaiS wrote:

What really matters in your case isn’t the sensitivity, but the maximum input level the SMSL DA 9 can take.
This value isn’t mentioned anywhere, neither in the manual nor in the net.
So we need a different approach.

• Switch back “on” ADI-2 DAC’s “Auto Reference Level”.
Now Volume is displayed in dBr instead of plain dB.

• If you do use Bluetooth, adjust ADI-2 DAC to about the same perceived loudness as your Bluetooth source.
A few dB less or more don’t matter.

• If you don’t use Bluetooth, set ADI-2 DAC to -19 dBr.
This setting is sufficient to fully drive your SMSL DA 9’s power amp, with some margin.




If you want to become an expert:

• Download this signal, 1kHz 0dBFS sinewave:
https://archiv.rme-audio.de/old/download/0_16.zip

• Set SMSL DA 9’s volume to a medium low level.

• Play the sinewave.

• With ADI-2 DAC’s “Auto Reference Level” active, gradually bring up ADI-2’s Volume until the sinewave starts to sound distorted.
Dial back ADI-2’s Volume 7 steps (3.5 dBr).
Note down this value.

• This is the maximum level your SMSL DA 9 can take.


I tested with the 1kz file and the results are as below:
auto reference level +13 dbu
at 5 dbr start distorting
1.5dbr 7 steps back

Then this is the maximum level that da 9 could take...how much v it is...could be calculated?
Now determining the maximum level as +13 dbu and +1.5 dbr volume, what will be the optimal combination for maximum dynamics range and room for dsp to optimum work? Note the test was done with all dsp functions enabled ...loudness/B-T and eq all already configured.

Re: Gain and volume

It seems to distort only with eq enabled...if I disable eq the da 9 will not distort even with maximum volume and gain.

6 (edited by asoka 2021-10-15 11:22:51)

Re: Gain and volume

Just from hearing, keeping an ballance of da9 capability of amplifying it seems that an reasonable settings it is  +7dBu and -21.5 dBr.

Could be any advantage to go on higher or lower dBu gain? and adjust from volume?

7 (edited by KaiS 2021-10-15 11:24:52)

Re: Gain and volume

asoka wrote:
KaiS wrote:

What really matters in your case isn’t the sensitivity, but the maximum input level the SMSL DA 9 can take.
This value isn’t mentioned anywhere, neither in the manual nor in the net.
So we need a different approach.

• Switch back “on” ADI-2 DAC’s “Auto Reference Level”.
Now Volume is displayed in dBr instead of plain dB.

• If you do use Bluetooth, adjust ADI-2 DAC to about the same perceived loudness as your Bluetooth source.
A few dB less or more don’t matter.

• If you don’t use Bluetooth, set ADI-2 DAC to -19 dBr.
This setting is sufficient to fully drive your SMSL DA 9’s power amp, with some margin.




If you want to become an expert:

• Download this signal, 1kHz 0dBFS sinewave:
https://archiv.rme-audio.de/old/download/0_16.zip

• Set SMSL DA 9’s volume to a medium low level.

• Play the sinewave.

• With ADI-2 DAC’s “Auto Reference Level” active, gradually bring up ADI-2’s Volume until the sinewave starts to sound distorted.
Dial back ADI-2’s Volume 7 steps (3.5 dBr).
Note down this value.

• This is the maximum level your SMSL DA 9 can take.


I tested with the 1kz file and the results are as below:
auto reference level +13 dbu
at 5 dbr start distorting
1.5dbr 7 steps back

Then this is the maximum level that da 9 could take...how much v it is...could be calculated?
Now determining the maximum level as +13 dbu and +1.5 dbr volume, what will be the optimal combination for maximum dynamics range and room for dsp to optimum work? Note the test was done with all dsp functions enabled ...loudness/B-T and eq all already configured.

Sorry, I forgot to mention: temporarily bypass ALL DSP functions and repeat the test please.

8 (edited by asoka 2021-10-15 11:34:31)

Re: Gain and volume

Just from hearing, keeping an ballance of da9 capability of amplifying it seems that an reasonable settings it is  +7dBu and -21.5 dBr.
Could be any advantage to go on higher or lower dBu gain? and adjust from volume?

With all dsp disabled will not distort even at maximum all.
With all dsp enable the -5 dBu will go to +7 Dbu at the same keept level of -22 dBr.

9 (edited by ramses 2021-10-15 11:34:23)

Re: Gain and volume

ADI-2 Dac/Pro have four reference levels for their main analog output.
By this design and the possibility to enable auto ref level the SNR is at a very high level for a wide volume range.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: Gain and volume

Then keeping at +7 dBu and -22 dBr it is inside this wide volume range?
Any other better combination...with lower or higher analog gain reference level and volume settings?

11 (edited by KaiS 2021-10-15 11:47:10)

Re: Gain and volume

asoka wrote:

Just from hearing, keeping an ballance of da9 capability of amplifying it seems that an reasonable settings it is  +7dBu and -21.5 dBr.
Could be any advantage to go on higher or lower dBu gain? and adjust from volume?

With all dsp disabled will not distort even at maximum all.
With all dsp enable the -5 dBu will go to +7 Dbu at the same keept level of -22 dBr.

So now you have the proof, there’s nothing to worry about, the SMSL DA 9 does not limit ADI-2 DAC’s level capabilities.

Feel free to choose a Volume between -18 to +1.5 dBr for full use of ADI-2 DAC’s dynamic range.
BTW: ADI-2 DAC’s “Auto Reference Level” is a smart function that cares for the rest, even takes into account all DSP functions like PEQ and Bass/Treble... 


For more options look here:
https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.ph … 21#p161721

12 (edited by asoka 2021-10-15 12:28:26)

Re: Gain and volume

Thank you all for support!
Yes indeed it seems that the combination of adi 2 dac and smsl is a good one.
Definitely noticed great increase in quality with adi 2 dac over previously dac.
I have only words of praise for adi 2 dac superb product with so many control possibilities.

The only problem faced it is that the remote of smsl communicate also with adi changing unwanted parameters.

Volume up will activate mute on adi and volume down will activate auto dark.

13 (edited by KaiS 2021-10-15 12:53:26)

Re: Gain and volume

asoka wrote:

Thank you all for support!
Yes indeed it seems that the combination of adi 2 dac and smsl is a good one.
Definitely noticed great increase in quality with adi 2 dac over previously dac.
I have only words of praise for adi 2 dac superb product with so many control possibilities.

The only problem faced it is that the remote of smsl communicate also with adi changing unwanted parameters.

Volume up will activate mute on adi and volume down will activate auto dark.

Maybe “Remap Keys” could help if not too many functions are affected.

See manual page 26:

Allows to assign 32 different functions/actions to the four function keys ... on the remote,

Notes on Remap Keys:
Factory default for remote buttons 1 to 4:
1: Mono, 2: Loudness, 3: AutoDark, 4: Dim

Re: Gain and volume

It not help...I need only that smsl remote volume up and down to not interfere with adi...smsl remote volume up will mute and next press unmute , volume down will activate dark mode and then deactivate...

I need to be able to deactivate remote function on adi of this 2 buttons mute and dark mode but I have no option for that.
Seems that many adi function are mapped and could be activated with an remote but not present even on the new one.

Re: Gain and volume

Quote: “Sorry, I forgot to mention: temporarily bypass ALL DSP functions and repeat the test please.”


With due respect Kais, absolutely no apology is necessary from you at all.

However, I tend towards the view that such an apology, is due to you, from elsewhere.

As in your earlier helpful response you did indeed clearly advise the original poster to “temporarily bypass ALL DSP functions and repeat the test please.” As part of your expert advice.

For a reason best known to the original poster himself, he copied and pasted your post, but edited it, excluding completely, two of the bullet points in your response, which were as follows. Quote:

“Temporarily bypass ALL of ADI-2’s DSP functions.”

“Switch on ADI-2 DAC’s “Auto Reference Level”.


Compare post 3 and 4.

Possibly the original poster wanted to follow his own desires and intuitions as to how he would configure his device, thus precluded points he did not wish to implement, which is of course, his privilege.

However, editing and reposting another's writing as if nothing has been altered can indeed, cloak, colour, confuse, misrepresent and falsify, advice they have previously been given. Leading to unwarranted and unnecessary apology and explanation along with undesirable aberration and complexity.

With respect, if a quote is edited for any reason or indeed shortened for conciseness, it is surely only ethical to indicate that a foreshortening has indeed been enacted. This places everyone in an ideal position to receive the best possible advice, presented in the clearest possible manner, able to followed with consummate ease, rather than unnecessary complication.

Genuine Best Wishes to All!

16 (edited by KaiS 2021-10-15 14:19:31)

Re: Gain and volume

CrispyChips wrote:

Quote: “Sorry, I forgot to mention: temporarily bypass ALL DSP functions and repeat the test please.”


With due respect Kais, absolutely no apology is necessary from you at all.

However, I tend towards the view that such an apology, is due to you, from elsewhere.

As in your earlier helpful response you did indeed clearly advise the original poster to “temporarily bypass ALL DSP functions and repeat the test please.” As part of your expert advice.

For a reason best known to the original poster himself, he copied and pasted your post, but edited it, excluding completely, two of the bullet points in your response, which were as follows. Quote:

“Temporarily bypass ALL of ADI-2’s DSP functions.”

“Switch on ADI-2 DAC’s “Auto Reference Level”.


Compare post 3 and 4.

Possibly the original poster wanted to follow his own desires and intuitions as to how he would configure his device,

...

With respect, if a quote is edited for any reason or indeed shortened for conciseness, it is surely only ethical to indicate that a foreshortening has indeed been enacted. This places everyone in an ideal position to receive the best possible advice, presented in the clearest possible manner, able to followed with consummate ease, rather than unnecessary complication.

Genuine Best Wishes to All!

No, no, I edited my post later on, to make the advice clearer for other readers with the same problem.

All good, nobody did anything wrong.

Nontheless, thanx for defending me!

Re: Gain and volume

smile Happy that my name was cleared!

Thank you again for quick reply and all your help offered.
Cheers!

Re: Gain and volume

Quote: “Happy that my name was cleared!”


Sincere apologies.

I had erroneously believed.

Subsequential writing consecutive.

Advancing in chronologically maturing order.



Quote: “I edited my post later on.”


A phenomenological manifestation of loopback?

“When ideas fail, words come in very handy.” Johann Wolfgang von Goethe.

“One should not aim at being possible to understand, but at being impossible to misunderstand.” Marcus Fabius Quintilianus.

19 (edited by KaiS 2021-10-17 21:03:24)

Re: Gain and volume

CrispyChips wrote:

“One should not aim at being possible to understand, but at being impossible to misunderstand.” Marcus Fabius Quintilianus.

I like that one, it’s what I aim to do in my postings.

Re: Gain and volume

KaiS wrote:
CrispyChips wrote:

“One should not aim at being possible to understand, but at being impossible to misunderstand.” Marcus Fabius Quintilianus.

I like that one, it’s what I aim to do in my postings.


Second it, KaiS :-)

I would like to ask, at the test file page of RME download link, what is that DC (0 Hz), -20 dBFS, 16 Bit Stereo Wave Datei? what is DC stands for?

Pacifist, dumb, not stupid
Listen music out from a box which sounds
Reading words on paper/ screen

21 (edited by KaiS 2021-10-18 07:30:37)

Re: Gain and volume

Johannes AU wrote:
KaiS wrote:
CrispyChips wrote:

“One should not aim at being possible to understand, but at being impossible to misunderstand.” Marcus Fabius Quintilianus.

I like that one, it’s what I aim to do in my postings.


Second it, KaiS :-)

I would like to ask, at the test file page of RME download link, what is that DC (0 Hz), -20 dBFS, 16 Bit Stereo Wave Datei? what is DC stands for?

DC stands for Direct Current (like from a batterie i.e.), opposed to AC, which stands for Alternating Current, like audio signals or the mains wall outlet.

The mentioned signal, DC -20 dBFS (= 1/10 of Full Scale), is probably meant to test the DC protection that e.g. ADI-2 has.

DC has the capability to kill a speaker or headphones (if too strong) without warning, without producing an audible signal, except for the “click” when switched on.

Re: Gain and volume

KaiS wrote:
Johannes AU wrote:
KaiS wrote:

I like that one, it’s what I aim to do in my postings.


Second it, KaiS :-)

I would like to ask, at the test file page of RME download link, what is that DC (0 Hz), -20 dBFS, 16 Bit Stereo Wave Datei? what is DC stands for?

DC stands for Direct Current (like from a batterie i.e.), opposed to AC, which stands for Alternating Current, like audio signals or the mains wall outlet.

The mentioned signal, DC -20 dBFS (1/10 of full scale), is probably meant to test the DC protection that e.g. ADI-2 has.

DC has the capability to kill a speaker or headphones (if too strong) without warning, without producing an audible signal, except for the “click” when switched on.


Understood, Thank You KaiS :-)

Pacifist, dumb, not stupid
Listen music out from a box which sounds
Reading words on paper/ screen