• Registered: 2021-08-30
  • Posts: 21

Topic: RME ADI-2 FS DAC + MQA (Read On...)

Hey all, nope not another 'can the DAC be set to MQA please thread'...

So I get this great DAC and all is well, and you lot help me set it up. I used Tidal from my phone all is well. I then tested an Auralic Aries G1 streamer alongside an HiFi Rose RS250 streamer and the sound quality is more or less equal to my ears, and I end up choosing the RS250 (MQA certified, not that it mattered to me).

I then tried Roon and was impressed enough to go for a years payment, but still had two days left on the trial before I realised that I didn't need Roon, nor did I like the interface with Quboz. I went deep into the settings of Roon to switch of all MQA gizmos and saw MQA in the signal path. Switched Tidal to HiFi (not Masters) and got a bit frustrated and cancelled my trial.

I then connected the HiFi Rose RS250 straight into my amp and bypassed the RME. Sound quality was shocking in comparison. I switched it back and in the display of the RS250 (when using HiFi Rose's App), I can get the MQA blue light!

WTF!

https://i.postimg.cc/RFJKV2Mj/IMG-4701.jpg

2 Reply by KaiS (edited by KaiS 2021-11-06 02:56:31)

  • KaiS
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Re: RME ADI-2 FS DAC + MQA (Read On...)

Switching Tidal on iPhone to “HIFI” doesn’t help or work, I still get “MASTER” here.
Guess they don’t deliver straight CD quality once an album is present in MQA.

When they started with MQA I first didn’t notice this fact, not even knowing about it.
What I did notice, the sound had become slightly worse, like if I was thrown back to MP3.

First thought, because of some “remaster” changes, but that wasn’t the reason.
Even on non-remastered albums the (hardware) CD sounds better to me.


I’m about to jump (Tidal) ship, that’s not what I’d payed for with “Tidal HiFi”.
If I only hadn’t such a huge collection of Tidal playlists and albums.

KaiS's Website

3 Reply by Curt962 (edited by Curt962 2021-11-06 03:53:23)

  • Registered: 2019-01-07
  • Posts: 1,462

Re: RME ADI-2 FS DAC + MQA (Read On...)

+1 for KaiS's observations. As I travel for a living,  I enjoy the International "portability" of Tidal via my Smartphone, (albeit with some exceptions in Mexico) and also use it on occasion when at home.  Music Discovery stuff, and all that...

As noted by KaiS, I do Tend to prefer slightly the sound of a CD Rip on my Phone, or on my Home Server to that of Tidal anything.  I'm not quite ready to abandon Tidal, but am also not convinced that Tidal is truly "lossless"   

I think there may be BS aplenty...

Makes me wonder...

Curt

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic AKM4490 Edition"
Cables:  Red, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes
  • From: Hongkong
  • Registered: 2021-06-30
  • Posts: 719

Re: RME ADI-2 FS DAC + MQA (Read On...)

SACD, MQA ... now some CD productions with MQA layer but only can read with a MQA CD player ..... what a mess .....

Pacifist, dumb, not stupid
Listen music out from a box which sounds
Reading words on paper/ screen
  • Registered: 2021-03-15
  • Posts: 100

Re: RME ADI-2 FS DAC + MQA (Read On...)

There's plenty of discussion Tidal offering MQA over CD-quality on the Computer Audiophile thread "MQA is Vaporware": https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topi … vaporware/

It seems you cannot get past MQA many times with Tidal. Being appalled by MQA I went with Qobuz and their UI has improved a bit. Soundiiz offers to move your Tidal playlists to Qobuz: https://soundiiz.com/tutorial/tidal-to-qobuz

Never tested this, so take with a grain of NaCl.

And Curt MQA is not lossless, that is established knowledge by now.

6 Reply by Curt962 (edited by Curt962 2021-11-07 16:14:37)

  • Registered: 2019-01-07
  • Posts: 1,462

Re: RME ADI-2 FS DAC + MQA (Read On...)

Well!   

Despite having a Grainy, Un-Resolving, Not "Bit Perfect" Travel Brain...

I've got a Qobuz Trial running on both my Smartphone, and Home Audio gear.   It actually DOES provide a better sounding stream at ANY Resolution than Tidal.  No Magical Decoder Chip required.  Lots of straight 44/16 Redbook material that sounds like a CD Rip on my Music Server, rather than a file that's been filtered through a Dirty Pair of Wool Socks.  wink

Less cost per Month also.  These monthly fees add up!   I've found some Artist's material that is absent, but thus far, nothing so egregious that I'd consider to be a deal breaker.

I'm encouraged!

Curt

I've a good feeling that Qobuz will Stay, and Tidal will be dismissed.

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic AKM4490 Edition"
Cables:  Red, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes

7 Reply by Curt962 (edited by Curt962 2021-11-23 05:13:40)

  • Registered: 2019-01-07
  • Posts: 1,462

Re: RME ADI-2 FS DAC + MQA (Read On...)

Bringing this Thread back to life for a moment...

As there are a considerable number of us Users who have interest in the various Music Streaming Services available...

I've trialed "Qobuz" , at home on my Gear there, and now Internationally via Smartphone App.   To that end, Tidal has been dispensed with.   I did indeed enjoy Tidal, but it is in no way equal to Qobuz in terms of SQ, and requires NO "Magic Chip".

"This Unfold", "That Unfold" and of course the "Other Unfold" to recover Hi Data Rate material.   I'm not interested in that. 

While I'm on work assignment, "Third World" internet networks present their own challenges, but the service is easily adapted in use to accomodate the sorts of crap I have to deal with in my travels. The Qobuz service itself satisfies me, and sounds so much more to my Ear as would a CD Rip, or High Quality Media download.  Tidal never did that...perhaps hoping rather I'd invest in a Licensed, but Doomed technology to recover that which "the Artist intended"

Nonsense.

Qobuz is staying!

Curt

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic AKM4490 Edition"
Cables:  Red, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes
  • From: Hongkong
  • Registered: 2021-06-30
  • Posts: 719

Re: RME ADI-2 FS DAC + MQA (Read On...)

Curt962 wrote:

Bringing this Thread back to life for a moment...

As there are a considerable number of us Users who have interest in the various Music Streaming Services available...

I've trialed "Qobuz" , at home on my Gear there, and now Internationally via Smartphone App.   To that end, Tidal has been dispensed with.   I did indeed enjoy Tidal, but it is in no way equal to Qobuz in terms of SQ, and requires NO "Magic Chip".

"This Unfold", "That Unfold" and of course the "Other Unfold" to recover Hi Data Rate material.   I'm not interested in that. 

While I'm on work assignment, "Third World" internet networks present their own challenges, but the service is easily adapted in use to accomodate the sorts of crap I have to deal with in my travels. The Qobuz service itself satisfies me, and sounds so much more to my Ear as would a CD Rip, or High Quality Media download.  Tidal never did that...perhaps hoping rather I'd invest in a Licensed, but Doomed technology to recover that which "the Artist intended"

Nonsense.

Qobuz is staying!

Curt

You are lucky, can enjoy Qobuz, which is not available in Hong Kong, I can only use Apple Music, which is also good.

Pacifist, dumb, not stupid
Listen music out from a box which sounds
Reading words on paper/ screen
  • KaiS
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Re: RME ADI-2 FS DAC + MQA (Read On...)

Curt962 wrote:

...The Qobuz service itself satisfies me, and sounds so much more to my Ear as would a CD Rip, or High Quality Media download.  Tidal never did that...

Tidal HiFi did sound like a CD rip as long as it was based on the same CD mastering version.
Over the time the content providers did replace a lot of the original CD release versions with remasters, nothing I can accuse Tidal for.

That was true until they introduced MQA.

KaiS's Website

  • From: Norway
  • Registered: 2021-06-21
  • Posts: 396

Re: RME ADI-2 FS DAC + MQA (Read On...)

Mqa is just for monopolizing music into a nonhackable streaming format. It doesnt add anything for consumers. We be better of with CD, FLAC, MP3 or any other open format really rgardless of quality. My best bet for an audiophile format would be 96/24 PCM. This is a scam against consumers. Dont buy IT! If it doesnt run though any ordinary tech DAC just stay clear.

ADI-2 DAC, ADI-2 PRO, DigifaceUSB, UCXII, ARC, HEGEL.h80, KEF.ls50, HD650, ie400pro _,.\''/.,_
  • Registered: 2022-10-30
  • Posts: 1

Re: RME ADI-2 FS DAC + MQA (Read On...)

KaiS wrote:

Switching Tidal on iPhone to “HIFI” doesn’t help or work, I still get “MASTER” here.
Guess they don’t deliver straight CD quality once an album is present in MQA.

Exactly. When an album is "mqaed" the lossless version is no longer on Tidal.
In their HiFi you'll get a 16/44 version of the mqa.
There are 3 main mqa versions:
- 16/44.1 flac : since this is already 16/44 nothing changes, you'll still get "mqa 44.1" on the mqa dac display.
- 24/44.1 flac : this is a 44.1 88.2 176.4 or 352.8 mqa. Here every third byte is left out and you'll get a 16/44.1 flac.
The mqa "signal" bit is still intact and you'll still see "mqa xx" on the dac display (xx = 44.1 88.2 176.4 or 352.8).
But this version will no longer "unfold" (marketing for upsampling)
- 24/48 flac : this is a 48 96 or 192 mqa. Here every third byte is left out AND the remaining 16/48 is downsampled to 16/44.
By the downsampling the mqa "signal" bit is corrupted and the dac will just show "pcm 44.1".
And this is NOT lossless pcm, but downgraded mqa. And since mqa is already a downgraded version, this will be even worse.
This is to convince people "mqa sounds better then lossless pcm". What a joke.

12 Reply by KaiS (edited by KaiS 2022-10-31 11:03:15)

  • KaiS
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Re: RME ADI-2 FS DAC + MQA (Read On...)

Appelflapje wrote:

This is to convince people "mqa sounds better then lossless pcm". What a joke.

If it sounds different - and to me it does - soon there are people who like it more, thinking it’s “better”.
Specially, if they are told it is.


I’m running Tidal from an iDevice most of the time, so the Tidal “Master” version of a track usually is 88.2 or 96 kHz and unknown bit depth.


When they started this, I didn’t know what’s going on, even didn’t know about MQA.
I just noticed something did sound slightly worse than before, bit like being set back to MP3.

My first suspicion: newly remastered versions.
This turned out to be not the case, compared to the CD releases the difference was too minor for that.


For me this “Master” thing is a downgrade soundwise, I’d happily take the original CD release most of the time.

I don’t see a point in upsampling CD format tracks just to get the figures look better.
No extra audio info can be retrieved by this, finally it’s fake HighRes.
Then pack the fake into a lossy transport format of CD-file size - very clever!

KaiS's Website