1 (edited by EnterTheDragon 2021-11-12 20:45:01)

Topic: Volume knob problem

Hello guys,

Posting here for the fist time this year because I grew tired with this problem. For already 1.5 years I can't use the original old type MRC because it has a bad battery contact — you have to squeeze it with both hands for the contact to work, but it is tiring to do so every time. So I switched to manual volume control with the big knob on the DAC itself. But it also has a problem. When you try to raise the volume it instead starts to lower it. For example when I slowly turn the knob, it goes from -40.0 to -39.5 then -39.0 but next step is -46.0. And it continues to happen over and over. Today I lost almost a minute trying to set the volume to -28.0 from -44.0 and it was a hard task. I have updated the firmware to v.41 but it didn't help sadly. I own the device for around 3 years and it is a disappointment for me to lose full control over MRC and manual control. I can provide a video of this happening if needed. When I enter the controls with VOL button and turn the knob to change volume there — everything is fine, every step of the knob's turn is being read correctly.

With best regards.

Re: Volume knob problem

Seems like a hardware issue of the encoder. You should contact your local RME distributor for repair service.

Regards,
Jeff Petersen
Synthax Inc.

3 (edited by EnterTheDragon 2021-11-11 23:52:35)

Re: Volume knob problem

Jeff wrote:

Seems like a hardware issue of the encoder. You should contact your local RME distributor for repair service.

But the volume knob is working fine if you enter settings from VOL button (not to mess with the Volume knob) on the DAC panel. You think it is a hardware issue?
I will contact the distributor tomorrow. But I doubt they will be able to provide any repair service here in Russia. I believe they can only sell things and not repair them.

Re: Volume knob problem

In the meantime before you get the encoder replaced it might be worth taking apart the remote control and trying to bend the battery contact on the circuit so it makes better contact with the battery, or put something between the housing and the back of the PCB so it pushes the contact onto the battery better. You've got nothing to lose.

I've dropped my remote on the floor and it came apart but putting it back together wasn't hard, iti's just a snap fit plastic case (the build quality is low!)

5 (edited by mark2748 2021-11-15 19:08:47)

Re: Volume knob problem

The large volume knob hardware issue has been discussed many times.  See for example:
https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.ph … 75#p135575
Three years of daily use is consistent with expected mechanical lifetime per the encoder manufacturer's specification.

My personal compromise is to adjust volume with the remote most of the time, but turn the large knob briefly every other day or so to reduce accumulated oxidation of the contacts.  I also use volume leveling in JRiver Media Center to reduce the amount of manual volume adjustment needed:
https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Volume_Leveling

Re: Volume knob problem

Here we go again... LOL

Maybe you can ask RME how much a replacement costs when being out of warranty?
Just don't be shocked.

Embarrasing to read that users try to circumvent using the volume knob because they fear the bad quality.
My advice: Use it as heavily as you can while on warranty. If it breaks then at least you can send it back for free and show RME what kind of crap they build into their "Pro" gear. Really, it's a joke.

7 (edited by KaiS 2021-11-16 01:32:28)

Re: Volume knob problem

Soundbar wrote:

...you can send it back for free and show RME what kind of crap they build into their "Pro" gear. Really, it's a joke.

I’ve seen “this kind of crap” on much more expensive Pro gear.

My LEXICON 300 reverb (12.000 bucks) had a similar problem.
Short after I bought a new Encoder (300 bucks), just before I did the replacement, it turned out smile they could fix it by a software update.
300 through the chimney.

Not that I want to say RME can fix it by firmware, but not to say they cannot in lighter cases.
A tip for the programmer: it’s not possible to change turn direction within a few ms. So a little plausibility check could help when reading the Encoder.
There already seems to be a difference the way the Encoder is read in the Vol page, if you follow the 1st posting.
How can this be?

Re: Volume knob problem

Enjoy the product, do not worry too much, turn the knob or press the remote when you need it, no need to avoid anything.

Pacifist, dumb, not stupid
Listen music out from a box which sounds
Reading words on paper/ screen

Re: Volume knob problem

I also detected a corroded potentiometer in my expensive Conrad & Johnson PV 8 preamp.
Since then I have stopped buying Hifi gear. My Adi 2 Pro Anniversary Edition had no issue since February 2019.

Win10 Pro, ADI-2 Pro, Basis 1, Adam A3X; RL 906; Grace M902B, Glockenklang Bugatti, Strauss SE-NF-3

Re: Volume knob problem

My ADI-2-pro fs also has a little jumpy volume control, but I can live with it.

Maybe you could clean the MRC battery contacts, bend them a little for more tension or resolder the pcb?
Or you could use a universal RC and learn the commands.

11 (edited by cmblux 2021-11-20 12:25:33)

Re: Volume knob problem

Hello,

My Adi-2 DAC now also starts with this strange behavior when changing the volume (volume jumping for and backwards...).
I am a bit disappointed as I love this gear and thought it to be very high quality.

From what you wrote hear, I understand that this might be an issue of the Potentiometer.
Is their found any easy trick?
Or, does it needs to be replaced? Which I understand might cost as much as EUR 250.
How long would I need to give it into repair?

I was thinking of buying a second, but are having second thoughts now.

Thanks

EDIT : I just found out the best and easiest Trick : Thomann Garantie
It s still below 2 years since purchase and even then I would have 1 more year of warranty.
Gona send it back for repair - will have to miss it 2-4 weeks tough.

However, I wish that RME would improve that weakness for future acquisition.

Re: Volume knob problem

That issue is such a shame for RME. For the 3 years warranty I got that encoder replaced twice.....
If it fails again there so way to spend 250 euro for repair that last 18 months.
That makes not so into buying new RME gear again. It's really disappointing.

13

Re: Volume knob problem

Windows users that have this specific encoder issue with DAC or Pro can contact me for a beta firmware that might fix the issue.

I also contacted EnterTheDragon and Ozorfis, but unfortunately did not hear back from them.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: Volume knob problem

Isn't it better to wait for an official update instead of a beta?

15 (edited by KaiS 2021-11-24 18:09:06)

Re: Volume knob problem

jr.radnev wrote:

Isn't it better to wait for an official update instead of a beta?

I have installed it and it fixes my encoder jumps.
So far nothing negative to say.

I’d say, depends on your use case.
If you use your ADI-2 professionally and it’s essential for you I’d hesitate to install a beta version, else, what do you have to lose, you can always go back.
Just take a note on which firmware version you are, before flashing.

16 (edited by ramses 2021-11-24 19:18:48)

Re: Volume knob problem

jr.radnev wrote:

Isn't it better to wait for an official update instead of a beta?

Obviously, RME is interested in feedback on whether the fix also solves this problem.

As a customer, you can of course behave kind of "uncooperatively" and take the standpoint that I'm not doing anything and I'm not testing anything. But then the person in question doesn't seem to care that much about the issue and shouldn't be surprised if there are still undiscovered problems in the next official version and the whole thing is delayed as a result and of course creates more efforts which delays other things as a consequence.

On the other hand you can only win when testing it. Installing the Beta Firmware breaks nothing and if something should become worse, simply install the old firmware from the download link on webserver.
From my experience I had never any issue when flashing a beta or a new release, regard it as safe.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: Volume knob problem

OK, I haven't had any bad thoughts, I'm always open to new things. How to contact MC? Email?

18 (edited by KaiS 2021-11-24 21:10:13)

Re: Volume knob problem

jr.radnev wrote:

OK, I haven't had any bad thoughts, I'm always open to new things. How to contact MC? Email?

Yes.

https://forum.rme-audio.de/misc.php?email=3

19

Re: Volume knob problem

So far I received numerous feedback that the new firmware will fix the issue on any unit out there - not a single one said it doesn't work properly again. This gives us hope that the issue can be solved for 99.9% of affected customers. The remaining could still send the unit in to exchange the encoders, of course.

I never heard back of EnterTheDragon, he went silent after I sent him the link to the test firmware.

The reason the new firmware fixes it is that we had an ingenious idea to not only do classic debounce filtering, but to analyse the logical state of the encoders and removing contact info that is invalid. This new (pat. pend. and TM*) state machine already fixes the issue on most affected units. The more jumpy ones also need a bit additional 'normal' debounce filtering, but far less (thanks to the new pat. pend and TM) than in a first version that we had over a year ago and never released, as we found it affecting haptic performance much too much.

A major firmware for Pro and DAC with lots of news and improvements is not far away.

*Just joking. We usually not waste our time with such. And we don't have to, as our code is perfectly hidden within DSP and FPGA. And if someone finds a similar way to do what we did and achieved, we would congratulate them - not sue them...

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

20 (edited by ramses 2021-11-28 13:21:19)

Re: Volume knob problem

MC wrote:

This new (pat. pend. and TM*) state machine

lol wink hyper hyper !!!

EDIT: many thanks Matthias and dev team for the efforts.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: Volume knob problem

What a fantastic solution! Congratulations!
Many thanks to the RME team for the hard work and incredible support.

Re: Volume knob problem

Thank you Matthias, I would like to test the new beta firmware not because of the knob problem but generally.

Win10 Pro, ADI-2 Pro, Basis 1, Adam A3X; RL 906; Grace M902B, Glockenklang Bugatti, Strauss SE-NF-3

23 (edited by ning 2021-11-28 14:19:51)

Re: Volume knob problem

This is amazing news! Super happy to see RME supporting existing customers for so long so well!

24 (edited by KaiS 2021-11-28 15:02:07)

Re: Volume knob problem

MC wrote:

...The reason the new firmware fixes it is that we had an ingenious idea to not only do classic debounce filtering, but to analyse the logical state of the encoders and removing contact info that is invalid. This new ... state machine already fixes the issue on most affected units. The more jumpy ones also need a bit additional 'normal' debounce filtering, but far less ... than in a first version that we had over a year ago and never released, as we found it affecting haptic performance much too much.

I‘m running the new beta version for some days now.
All of my three encoders had significant jumping issues before.

I can confirm that with the beta FW I did not have a single jump any more, even with the new “Encoder Filter” parameter set to 0.
So the first part of the new code already fixes the problem.

Well done RME!

Re: Volume knob problem

Wow!!  This is Fantastic News!

+1 for RME.

I've never had an encoder matter, but am nonetheless Delighted that RME now has developed a means of resolving the problem for those who did!

"Vorsprung durch Technik" has already been used elsewhere, but seems entirely appropriate for use in this discussion!

Viele Dank RME!!

Curt

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic AKM4490 Edition"
Cables:  Red, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes

Re: Volume knob problem

+2 for RME.

"Vorsprung durch Wissen"

Pacifist, dumb, not stupid
Listen music out from a box which sounds
Reading words on paper/ screen

Re: Volume knob problem

https://i.ibb.co/StjWqHP/strictly-no-jumping.jpg

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic AKM4490 Edition"
Cables:  Red, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes

Re: Volume knob problem

Curt962 wrote:

https://i.ibb.co/StjWqHP/strictly-no-jumping.jpg

I'm jumping, I am not a S/Mux specialist .....

Pacifist, dumb, not stupid
Listen music out from a box which sounds
Reading words on paper/ screen

Re: Volume knob problem

My encoder has already been changed, but would this new FW also help when the jumps are random and go to both directions? With both directions I mean that it goes faster to the desired direction or jumps backwards to the direction you weren't turning the encoder?

Re: Volume knob problem

Shikyo wrote:

My encoder has already been changed, but would this new FW also help when the jumps are random and go to both directions? With both directions I mean that it goes faster to the desired direction or jumps backwards to the direction you weren't turning the encoder?

Yes, I had this and it is fixed now.

Re: Volume knob problem

KaiS wrote:
Shikyo wrote:

My encoder has already been changed, but would this new FW also help when the jumps are random and go to both directions? With both directions I mean that it goes faster to the desired direction or jumps backwards to the direction you weren't turning the encoder?

Yes, I had this and it is fixed now.

That is just amazing.

32 (edited by mark2748 2021-12-01 05:43:17)

Re: Volume knob problem

KaiS wrote:
MC wrote:

...The reason the new firmware fixes it is that we had an ingenious idea to not only do classic debounce filtering, but to analyse the logical state of the encoders and removing contact info that is invalid. This new ... state machine already fixes the issue on most affected units. The more jumpy ones also need a bit additional 'normal' debounce filtering, but far less ... than in a first version that we had over a year ago and never released, as we found it affecting haptic performance much too much.

I‘m running the new beta version for some days now.
All of my three encoders had significant jumping issues before.

I can confirm that with the beta FW I did not have a single jump any more, even with the new “Encoder Filter” parameter set to 0.
So the first part of the new code already fixes the problem.

Well done RME!

@KaiS Thanks for now revealing an important data point.  I hope you will keep the forum informed if you find any performance changes in the future.   Also hope that RME will use a more robust encoder to start with in any new version.

The improved state machine algorithm would likely be of interest to the many other product manufacturers in the world who build similar encoders into a wide range of applications.

33

Re: Volume knob problem

mark2748 wrote:

Also hope that RME will use a more robust encoder to start with in any new version.

This issue only affects older units. Guess why...

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

34 (edited by mark2748 2021-12-02 19:06:19)

Re: Volume knob problem

MC wrote:
mark2748 wrote:

Also hope that RME will use a more robust encoder to start with in any new version.

This issue only affects older units. Guess why...

...would the guess apply to my ADI-2 DAC FS purchased from Sweetwater in August, 2020?

35 (edited by KaiS 2021-12-01 09:26:22)

Re: Volume knob problem

mark2748 wrote:
MC wrote:
mark2748 wrote:

Also hope that RME will use a more robust encoder to start with in any new version.

This issue only affects older units. Guess why...

...would the guess apply to my ADI-2 DAC FS purchased from Sweetwater on 8/7/2020? neutral

Don‘t worry, I have a 1st version ADI-2 Pro (without “FS”), and the new firmware fixes it’s truly old encoders too.

36

Re: Volume knob problem

mark2748 wrote:
MC wrote:
mark2748 wrote:

Also hope that RME will use a more robust encoder to start with in any new version.

This issue only affects older units. Guess why...

...would the guess apply to my ADI-2 DAC FS purchased from Sweetwater on 8/7/2020?

This kind of request is exactly the reason we not talk about it. Instead we will offer a solution.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME