1 Topic by anttipi (edited by anttipi 2021-12-04 15:19:04)

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Topic: Some ADI-2 DAC FS questions

I've been using RME cards in my DAW with success for years and am now about to buy the ADI-2 DAC FS for my home stereo setup.

I have a Yamaha A-S1000 integrated amp (only unbalanced RCA inputs) and Arendal S 1961 Sub (RCA line level input). So I'd be running both of ADI-2 DAC's analog outs simultaneously.

1) To accommodate the Yamaha's  1 V/47 kΩ Main Direct input, I believe I should set Ref Level to +1 dBu Ref Level. What should I set the sub's input gain at, if connecting from the RME's XLR outs to the sub's RCA line in? The Arendal manual says for"1V output set to +6dB". But as the RME's XLR output is +6 dB, should I set the Arendal input gain at 0dB instead (to match the level going to the Yamaha's 1V via RCA->RCA)?

2) As +1 dBu is already the lowest Ref Level value on the RME, doesn't this mean Auto Ref wouldn't do anything in my case?

3) From what I understand, I should be able to use separate Auto Ref settings for a) headphones (if line out set to automute in the settings) and b) RCA+XLR outs?

4) Are there any reasons configuration-wise why I should or shouldn't use RCA->RCA to the sub and XLR->RCA to the Arendal sub or vice versa? (Yamaha being fixed input gain, Arendal selectable.)

Thanks a lot in advance!

2 Reply by Curt962 (edited by Curt962 2021-12-04 16:03:23)

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Re: Some ADI-2 DAC FS questions

Hi Anttipi,

By all means, USE Auto-Ref!  It's really your friend.

If you're using an XLR>RCA adapter in the mix, there is no more +6db to consider. (A Balanced connection uses both +/- Signals to achieve the higher level, and the adapter takes that away, and only uses ONE side of the balanced signal which now effectively equals the same voltage level as the Unbalanced/RCA connections)

*Now for the Meat and Potatoes:

Level matching the ACOUSTIC output of your Subs and Mains really can't be done by simply adding/subtracting a few numbers.  This is always done best with a Test Signal , and an SPL Meter. 

Example:   Run a test signal through your Mains ONLY.   Pink Noise is fine.

Measure the SPL of the mains output at your listening position, and adjust the RME's output so that the SPL meter reads 75-80db or so.

Don't touch a thing!...

And now measure the Output of your Sub (ONLY) and adjust the SUBs (don't touch the RME!) level to equal that which you observed from your Mains.

You are now level matched!

It's not uncommon to later decide subjectively that you'd like a bit more/less output from the Sub, but the aforementioned level-matching process gets us started out with everything zeroed in.

Makes sense yes?

Optionally, you can spend the rest of your life subjectively adjusting Sub levels with each recording never really knowing where "matched" actually is. wink

I've done this quite a few times in the period since the Earth cooled, and find that the procedure I described really works well...as far as level matching is concerned.

Dig in, and Have Fun!

Curt

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic AKM4490 Edition"
Cables:  Red, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes

3 Reply by ning (edited by ning 2021-12-04 16:33:08)

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Re: Some ADI-2 DAC FS questions

1. If you set your ref level to +1dbu, then xlr is outputting +1dbu (0.87 vrms).  your rca is outputting -5dbu (0.44 vrms). If you connect XLR out to RCA then it's a different story --- depends on what phases you send. If you are using cold+hot then it's +1dbu (only do this when you understand what you're doing...). if you are using hot+ground it's -5dbu. 

But if you need to match levels of your speaker with your sub, you have to compare dB SPL level rather than dBu. Spec usually will have those values and you can do your math with a calculator... but the most precise way is to use a measurement mic (minidsp's umik-1 and sonarworks's soundid are good options, and you can do room corrections with those mics). If you just want a coarse result, your phone should be able to measure SPL in dB.

2. Right. it's not useful unless you want to go beyond +1dbu.

3. right

4. confused again...  rca->rca to the sub and xlr->rca to the sub again?

Usually your sub should have an output to amp's/speaker's input that does the crossover automatically for you. So it's better to use that rather than to connect your amp(or speaker) directly to your DAC, unless, you have a >= 3-channel DAC and you can do a digital crossover, which is usually better than the sub's crossover. but you said you bought a ADI-2 DAC, which has only 2 channels so unfortunately digital crossover is not an option for you. Even on the ADI-2 Pro it's a little bit inconvenient, as you have to use the HP 3/4 as line out. I do hope Pro could have a rear 3/4 out but unfortunately it doesn't.

The pro could become a much more useful device if its rear TRS jack is for 3/4. But that may break many existing logic so I believe RME won't do it. I currently have a DSP program that do crossover and send the sub signal to 3/4 hp jack in a way that their phase is inverted, so it can be used directly as a balanced output. The cable management is a little bit ugly (as it's running from the front) but can get the thing done.

4 Reply by KaiS (edited by KaiS 2021-12-04 16:30:08)

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Re: Some ADI-2 DAC FS questions

Curt962 wrote:

...This is always done best with a Test Signal , and an SPL Meter. 

Example:   Run a test signal through your Mains ONLY.   Pink Noise is fine.

Measure the SPL of the mains output at your listening position, and adjust the RME's output so that the SPL meter reads 75-80db or so.

Don't touch a thing!...

And now measure the Output of your Sub (ONLY) and adjust the SUBs (don't touch the RME!) level to equal that which you observed from your Mains.

You are now level matched!

Sorry Curtt, but this is wrong.

You can’t use an SPL meter to match pink noise filtered with two differently wide bandwidth’s.
The main speakers cover somewhat about 9 octaves, the sub only 2-3.
Each doubling of bandwidth adds 3 dB to the measured RMS level, and if you measure Peak the result is totally random.


A spectrum analyser is needed for this to work.
I always suggest the iPhone app Audiotools by Andrew Smith, the FFT and RTA is free.

You don’t need an extra measurement mic.
The app contains calibrations for the internal mic of every existing iDevice.

https://apps.apple.com/de/app/audiotools/id325307477

With one measurement you have the complete overview what’s going on, even xover matches and room problems become visible and can be corrected.

KaiS's Website

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Re: Some ADI-2 DAC FS questions

>You don’t need an extra measurement mic. The app contains calibrations for the internal mic of every existing iDevice.

For coarse measurements this works great. For finer result a calibrated mic is needed as each mic is different.

6 Reply by Curt962 (edited by Curt962 2021-12-04 17:00:58)

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Re: Some ADI-2 DAC FS questions

I think my entire posting was horribly misinterpreted.

The OP asked about simple Level Matching...not a Room Tuning exercise which is an entirely different matter.  So as not to introduce complexity at a point where it was not warranted, I limited my post to discuss ONLY level matching.  wink

Curt

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic AKM4490 Edition"
Cables:  Red, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes
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Re: Some ADI-2 DAC FS questions

Curt962 wrote:

I think my entire posting was horribly misinterpreted.

The OP asked about simple Level Matching...not a Room Tuning exercise which is an entirely different matter.  So as not to introduce complexity at a point where it was not warranted, I limited my post to discuss ONLY level matching.  wink

Curt

I did understand your message, but if you read my comment again:
Even for simple level matching you approach is wrong.
I explained why.

KaiS's Website

8 Reply by KaiS (edited by KaiS 2021-12-04 17:15:47)

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Re: Some ADI-2 DAC FS questions

ning wrote:

>You don’t need an extra measurement mic. The app contains calibrations for the internal mic of every existing iDevice.

For coarse measurements this works great. For finer result a calibrated mic is needed as each mic is different.

You would be astonished how precise the results are.
I have dozens of expensive calibrated measurement mic’s (and some sound level calibrators) to compare.
Sensitivity matches so-so (~ +/- 2 dB), but:
Specially the frequency response is very close.

The methodology has more influence on the result, e.g. mic orientation for freefield or pressure field mic’s.

For home use this solution is perfectly fine.

KaiS's Website

9 Reply by anttipi (edited by anttipi 2021-12-04 19:46:49)

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Re: Some ADI-2 DAC FS questions

Thanks for the answers! And sorry about "RCA->RCA to the sub and XLR->RCA to the Arendal sub", obviously should have been RCA->RCA to the amp.

So it appears +7 dBu is the correct reference level setting for me on the ADI-2, given that my Yamaha amp's RCA input is 1V and ADI-2 lowers the output by -6 dB on its RCA out. 7 - 6 = 1 dBu.

And likewise in the sub, I'll set input gain at +6dB (~1 V), because using a XLR->RCA cable where the positive pin is connected to RCA input, the input level should match that of the RCA->RCA connection.

But I'm wondering if the ADI-2 can withstand a XLR->RCA connection where the negative of the XLR is shorted to the ground? From what I'm reading, the negative would better be left unconnected altogether to be on the safe side, depending on the connected hardware? For example, Cordial offers a XLR->RCA cable of the first variety (negative shorted, probably ok for mics and such), whereas Emotiva has an extension adapter of the second "safer" type (negative left unconnected). I naturally don't want to risk frying my RME! Or my sub...

And finally, regarding the sub level: I was only wondering about the correct initial input gain setting on my sub. Proper level-matching of sub and mains is a whole another story of course. I have no problem running my mains full with the sub: I've got a pair of ATC SCM11's which are a sealed cabinet, lean on bass and with a nice gradual roll-off as they are (no particular need for additional crossovers). And furthermore, the Arendal sub has enough adjustments to help sub + mains integrate ok (i.e., different LPF slopes, parametric EQ, gradual phase adjustment).

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Re: Some ADI-2 DAC FS questions

The Cordial cable is wired thus, I simply cut the wire at the 3rd pin?

https://www.cordial-cables.com/cable-assignments/image-thumb__268__product-detail/terminaldiagram-fc.webp

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Re: Some ADI-2 DAC FS questions

anttipi wrote:

The Cordial cable is wired thus, I simply cut the wire at the 3rd pin?

https://www.cordial-cables.com/cable-assignments/image-thumb__268__product-detail/terminaldiagram-fc.webp

Yes!

KaiS's Website

12 Reply by anttipi (edited by anttipi 2021-12-05 20:48:55)

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Re: Some ADI-2 DAC FS questions

A few follow up questions below, If I may - I'd like to hear your thoughts!

1) My original idea was to use the Yammy's Main Direct input for the ADI-2 DAC, because that would bypass the Yammy's preamp and tone control circuit. HOWEVER, it also means volume control is bypassed. And I'm guessing it's not a good thing as I would then need to digitally attenuate the volume by quite a lot on the ADI-2. So I'll be using the CD in on the Yammy instead - to be able to set the volume knob at a comfortable level and do the fine adjustments digitally on the ADI-2. Yes, the signal will have to go through the Yammy's preamp buffer and tone control circuit but I guess it's worth it for the volume control. Does my reasoning make sense here? I don't like idea of the power amp being at "full blast" (?) when the volume control is bypassed.

2) At the same time, I could just as well feed my sub via the amp's pre outs. I don't see much advantage in feeding the sub straight from the ADI-2's XLR outs and converting it to unbalanced RCA. Sure, this way I would bypass the Yammy's internals but I very much doubt I'd hear any difference, given the limited frequency range of a sub. Sounds about right - or not? This way I would also avoid the XLR->RCA hassle.

3) Regarding Ref Level: is the dBu number ADI-2 is showing for the unbalanced outs? I.e., if using RCA out, the dBu number is exactly what you see on the display, whereas for balanced XLR, you have to add +6dB in your head to the dBU value that you're seeing on the ADI-2?

13 Reply by Johannes AU (edited by Johannes AU 2021-12-06 06:40:48)

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Re: Some ADI-2 DAC FS questions

anttipi wrote:

A few follow up questions below, If I may - I'd like to hear your thoughts!

1) My original idea was to use the Yammy's Main Direct input for the ADI-2 DAC, because that would bypass the Yammy's preamp and tone control circuit. HOWEVER, it also means volume control is bypassed. And I'm guessing it's not a good thing as I would then need to digitally attenuate the volume by quite a lot on the ADI-2. So I'll be using the CD in on the Yammy instead - to be able to set the volume knob at a comfortable level and do the fine adjustments digitally on the ADI-2. Yes, the signal will have to go through the Yammy's preamp buffer and tone control circuit but I guess it's worth it for the volume control. Does my reasoning make sense here? I don't like idea of the power amp being at "full blast" (?) when the volume control is bypassed.

2) At the same time, I could just as well feed my sub via the amp's pre outs. I don't see much advantage in feeding the sub straight from the ADI-2's XLR outs and converting it to unbalanced RCA. Sure, this way I would bypass the Yammy's internals but I very much doubt I'd hear any difference, given the limited frequency range of a sub. Sounds about right - or not? This way I would also avoid the XLR->RCA hassle.

3) Regarding Ref Level: is the dBu number ADI-2 is showing for the unbalanced outs? I.e., if using RCA out, the dBu number is exactly what you see on the display, whereas for balanced XLR, you have to add +6dB in your head to the dBU value that you're seeing on the ADI-2?

1. Every power amp is at full blast, power amp is working with a fixed ratio of amplification, intergated amp with pre-amp attenuates the signal to the power amp. Thats why we can use the RME dac as a pre-amp.

2. If the pre-out is variable, it is fine.

3. Yes.

By the way, A-S1000 main input can accept 2.8V max(11.16 dBu at RME output). the 1V figure is the input sensitivity/impedance

In case if you do not have the manual of the A-S1000, below is the link
https://europe.yamaha.com/files/downloa … 1000_G.pdf

Page 15 is the solution, the pre-amp can be the RME dac, the dac can take care of toslink, coaxial, and USB source.

Pacifist, dumb, not stupid
Listen music out from a box which sounds
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14 Reply by anttipi (edited by anttipi 2021-12-06 17:35:22)

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Re: Some ADI-2 DAC FS questions

Johannes AU wrote:

1. Every power amp is at full blast, power amp is working with a fixed ratio of amplification, intergated amp with pre-amp attenuates the signal to the power amp. Thats why we can use the RME dac as a pre-amp.

Yeah, that's why I don't want to use the Yamaha as a volume control bypassed power amp, because I would need to use crazy amounts of digital attenuation on the RME.

Page 15 is the solution, the pre-amp can be the RME dac, the dac can take care of toslink, coaxial, and USB source.

Does ADI-2 DAC's Auto Source work between a) optical and b) coaxial in? Or just between a) USB and b) optical/coaxial? The manual kind of points to the second. I'd be using both optical and coaxial inputs (not at the same time though) and don't want to have to switch the input source manually. That would be a deal breaker for me actually.

15 Reply by KaiS (edited by KaiS 2021-12-06 18:50:28)

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Re: Some ADI-2 DAC FS questions

anttipi wrote:

...I don't want to use the Yamaha as a volume control bypassed power amp, because I would need to use crazy amounts of digital attenuation on the RME.

Use passive attenuators to feed the Yamaha‘s power amp inputs directly.
https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.ph … 42#p120442

Look here how to optimize settings:
https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.ph … 21#p161721

KaiS's Website

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Re: Some ADI-2 DAC FS questions

anttipi wrote:
Johannes AU wrote:

1. Every power amp is at full blast, power amp is working with a fixed ratio of amplification, intergated amp with pre-amp attenuates the signal to the power amp. Thats why we can use the RME dac as a pre-amp.

Yeah, that's why I don't want to use the Yamaha as a volume control bypassed power amp, because I would need to use crazy amounts of digital attenuation on the RME.

Page 15 is the solution, the pre-amp can be the RME dac, the dac can take care of toslink, coaxial, and USB source.

Does ADI-2 DAC's Auto Source work between a) optical and b) coaxial in? Or just between a) USB and b) optical/coaxial? The manual kind of points to the second. I'd be using both optical and coaxial inputs (not at the same time though) and don't want to have to switch the input source manually. That would be a deal breaker for me actually.

Use the remote.

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17 Reply by anttipi (edited by anttipi 2021-12-06 19:19:03)

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Re: Some ADI-2 DAC FS questions

Johannes AU wrote:

Use the remote.

Too impractical, as I would not be needing the remote for anything else. That's what the Auto Source is there for anyway. Convenience.

But I did find this in the manual: "The currently used SPDIF input can be chosen under I/O - Settings – Source.
Set to Auto the input with a valid input signal will be chosen automatically."

So it appears as soon as I switch on my TV (for movies) or PC (for music), the RME will be able to auto select between optical and coaxial.

18 Reply by anttipi (edited by anttipi 2021-12-06 19:45:56)

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Re: Some ADI-2 DAC FS questions

KaiS wrote:
anttipi wrote:

...I don't want to use the Yamaha as a volume control bypassed power amp, because I would need to use crazy amounts of digital attenuation on the RME.

Use passive attenuators to feed the Yamaha‘s power amp inputs directly.
https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.ph … 42#p120442

Look here how to optimize settings:
https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.ph … 21#p161721

If I use the Yamaha's Main Direct input, I can't use its pre out for the sub (it will be muted when Main Direct is selected). Which means I'd need to get two attenuators, one for the Yamaha and one for the sub. Much easier to just go in via the Yammy's CD in and use the pre outs, even if that means going through its preamp buffer and tone control circuit.

19 Reply by Johannes AU (edited by Johannes AU 2021-12-06 19:47:19)

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Re: Some ADI-2 DAC FS questions

anttipi wrote:
KaiS wrote:
anttipi wrote:

...I don't want to use the Yamaha as a volume control bypassed power amp, because I would need to use crazy amounts of digital attenuation on the RME.

Use passive attenuators to feed the Yamaha‘s power amp inputs directly.
https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.ph … 42#p120442

Look here how to optimize settings:
https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.ph … 21#p161721

If use the Yamaha's Main Direct input, I can't use its pre out for the sub (it will be muted). Which means I'd need to get two attenuators, one for the Yamaha and one for the sub. Much easier to just go in via the Yammy's CD in and use the pre outs, even if that means going through its preamp buffer and tone control circuit.


Really? did you try to connect the RME dac to main direct and turn the RME dac to 13dBu and test it?
If nothing connected to main direct but you selected it at the Yamaha, could be it will mute, because there is no signal.

Could be you do not require attenuators at all, I did read both the Yamaha and the sub's user manual. Unless page 15 of the Yamaha manual is wrong.

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Re: Some ADI-2 DAC FS questions

anttipi wrote:
Johannes AU wrote:

Use the remote.

Too impractical, as I would not be needing the remote for anything else. That's what the Auto Source is there for anyway. Convenience.

But I did find this in the manual: "The currently used SPDIF input can be chosen under I/O - Settings – Source.
Set to Auto the input with a valid input signal will be chosen automatically."

So it appears as soon as I switch on my TV (for movies) or PC (for music), the RME will be able to auto select between optical and coaxial.

Did you tried it?

It can detect automatically when a signal flows, but you still can use the remote to select it. (Imagine, sometimes you want to listening to the TV, but you run the PC to listen something, may be a message at its speaker, otherwise, a chime from the PC such as a system tone will bring a mess to the system)

Pacifist, dumb, not stupid
Listen music out from a box which sounds
Reading words on paper/ screen

21 Reply by anttipi (edited by anttipi 2021-12-06 19:54:13)

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Re: Some ADI-2 DAC FS questions

Johannes AU wrote:

Really? did you try to connect the RME dac to main direct and turn the RME dac to 13dBu and test it?
If nothing connected to main direct but you selected it at the Yamaha, could be it will mute, because there is no signal.

Well, I don't have the RME yet. But on the Yamaha, there's Main Direct RCA inputs and to utilize them, you need to select Main Direct on the front panel's input selector. This automatically bypasses volume control AND mutes the pre outs. It's stated in the manual.

Could be you do not attenuators at all, I did read both the Yamaha and the sub's user manual.

My bad, you're right about the Arendal sub, because it's active and has a volume control. But the Yamaha is a pretty beefy amp and I'm thinking, without attenuators, I would need to keep the ADI-2 DAC's digital volume control on the lower settings (which I believe isn't exactly optimal).

22 Reply by Johannes AU (edited by Johannes AU 2021-12-06 20:02:42)

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Re: Some ADI-2 DAC FS questions

anttipi wrote:
Johannes AU wrote:

Really? did you try to connect the RME dac to main direct and turn the RME dac to 13dBu and test it?
If nothing connected to main direct but you selected it at the Yamaha, could be it will mute, because there is no signal.

Well, I don't have the RME yet. But on the Yamaha, there's Main Direct RCA inputs and to utilize them, you need to select Main Direct on the front panel's input selector. This automatically bypasses volume control AND mutes the pre outs. It's stated in the manual.

Could be you do not attenuators at all, I did read both the Yamaha and the sub's user manual.

My bad, you're right about the Arendal sub, because it's active and has a volume control. But the Yamaha is a pretty beefy amp and I'm thinking, without attenuators, I would need to keep the ADI-2 DAC's digital volume control on the lower settings (which I believe isn't exactly optimal).

No problem, my friend smile

I see, the RME dac Auto Ref is a wonderful feature, it will bring you the same sound quality and S/N at any setting, nothing to worry.

The beefy amp you own, you still turn it down while you need, it is also an attenuation at the pre-amp itself, same as when you connect the RME dac, right? there is no difference at all.

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23 Reply by anttipi (edited by anttipi 2021-12-06 20:06:38)

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Re: Some ADI-2 DAC FS questions

One more thing...

I'm using Foobar2000 as my source and ReplayGain with Foobar's ReplayGain amp at -6 dB (negative value necessary for several of my classical albums).

How should I go about gain staging, if I were to use the Yamaha integrated's volume control?

I believe it would be preferable to leave Foobar2000's digital volume (or RG preamp) at +0 dB and set a fixed -6 dB volume level on the ADI-2 DAC instead. This way I could utilize a different Reference Level, right?

So: if at +0 dB, the recommended reference level is +7 dBu, what is the corresponding dBu value for -6 db? Put another way: what kind of attenuation and Reference Level combination should I be using to get the optimal output voltage AND giving me the required -6dB headroom for ReplayGain? As stated, I'm talking about using fixed volume on the ADI-2 DAC. The Yamaha can take 2.7 volts max.

Thanks again - I've looked at the online calculators but I'm struggling to get my head around the math.

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Re: Some ADI-2 DAC FS questions

anttipi wrote:

One more thing...

I'm using Foobar2000 as my source and ReplayGain with Foobar's ReplayGain amp at -6 dB (negative value necessary for several of my classical albums).

How should I go about gain staging, if I were to use the Yamaha integrated's volume control?

I believe it would be preferable to leave Foobar2000's digital volume (or RG preamp) at +0 dB and set a fixed -6 dB volume level on the ADI-2 DAC instead. This way I could utilize a different Reference Level, right?

So: if at +0 dB, the recommended reference level is +7 dBu, what is the corresponding dBu value for -6 db? Put another way: what kind of attenuation and Reference Level combination should I be using to get the optimal output voltage AND giving me the required -6dB headroom for ReplayGain? As stated, I'm talking about using fixed volume on the ADI-2 DAC.

Thanks again - I've looked at the online calculators but I'm struggling to get my head around the math.


The RME dac can store different settings, it is a wonderful feature.

We, the members here, would recommend you to read the user manual to get a rough idea how it works.

https://www.rme-audio.de/downloads/adi2dacr_e.pdf

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25 Reply by Johannes AU (edited by Johannes AU 2021-12-06 20:16:24)

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Re: Some ADI-2 DAC FS questions

anttipi, do not think I am an expert of the RME dac, I did ask a lot of questions and read the manual one month before the dac arrives, the manual has lots of information you need and digest, members here are more than happy to answer your question(s).

If we gave you a wrong answer, MC (the RME boss) will pop out to correct us (and we learn).

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Listen music out from a box which sounds
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26 Reply by anttipi (edited by anttipi 2021-12-06 21:26:48)

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Re: Some ADI-2 DAC FS questions

Johannes AU wrote:

The RME dac can store different settings, it is a wonderful feature.

We, the members here, would recommend you to read the user manual to get a rough idea how it works.

https://www.rme-audio.de/downloads/adi2dacr_e.pdf

I've actually read it once already, doing the OCD-level research I always do before pretty much any purchase, lol.

Judging by this table (http://www.uneeda-audio.com/images/dbtbl.pdf), it appears these are the most optimal settings in the ADI-2 DAC:

Fixed volume: -9 dB
Fixed Reference Level: 19 dBU

This combination will output 2.75 V (Yamaha accepts 2.8 V max) AND provides the required headroom for ReplayGain (-6 dB). Please, correct me if I'm wrong.

EDIT: Uh, except that +13 dBu is the max for RCA out. So -6 dB volume and 13 dBu reference level (=1.95 output volts) it is then. BUT! There is the RME's headroom for overs, so maybe I can take it up to -4 dB, giving me 2.45 output volts, and ReplayGain will act happy.

27 Reply by KaiS (edited by KaiS 2021-12-06 23:54:53)

  • KaiS
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Re: Some ADI-2 DAC FS questions

Go for Reference Level +13dBu and Volume 0 dB.
With your -6 dB ReplayGain you end up perfectly right at + 7 dBu.
( Yamaha’s max. 2.8 V = +11 dBu )

One should not drive amplifier inputs to fullscale.
The electronics, specially FET switches, need a few dB of headroom to work cleanly.

KaiS's Website

28 Reply by Johannes AU (edited by Johannes AU 2021-12-07 04:28:26)

  • From: Hongkong
  • Registered: 2021-06-30
  • Posts: 720

Re: Some ADI-2 DAC FS questions

anttipi wrote:
Johannes AU wrote:

The RME dac can store different settings, it is a wonderful feature.

We, the members here, would recommend you to read the user manual to get a rough idea how it works.

https://www.rme-audio.de/downloads/adi2dacr_e.pdf

I've actually read it once already, doing the OCD-level research I always do before pretty much any purchase, lol.

Judging by this table (http://www.uneeda-audio.com/images/dbtbl.pdf), it appears these are the most optimal settings in the ADI-2 DAC:

Fixed volume: -9 dB
Fixed Reference Level: 19 dBU

This combination will output 2.75 V (Yamaha accepts 2.8 V max) AND provides the required headroom for ReplayGain (-6 dB). Please, correct me if I'm wrong.

EDIT: Uh, except that +13 dBu is the max for RCA out. So -6 dB volume and 13 dBu reference level (=1.95 output volts) it is then. BUT! There is the RME's headroom for overs, so maybe I can take it up to -4 dB, giving me 2.45 output volts, and ReplayGain will act happy.


KaiS is correct.

Though on paper it can stand for 2.8V, but if you consider Bass and Treble boost and/or PEQ added on it, stay at 2.0V to 2.2V is an idea to have a safety buffer, better safe than sorry. (short duration could be fine while you adjust the setting)

My small Yamaha class D amp can accept 2.4V max, but I still set it at 1.84V or 1.95V(7.5 to 8.0dBu) sometimes even lower.

Pacifist, dumb, not stupid
Listen music out from a box which sounds
Reading words on paper/ screen

29 Reply by anttipi (edited by anttipi 2021-12-07 12:09:39)

  • Registered: 2010-02-18
  • Posts: 51

Re: Some ADI-2 DAC FS questions

Thanks guys, much appreciated!

I'll proceed as KaiS suggested with the volume/gain. As Foobar2000 does its RG magic in 32 bit floating point, leaving the RG preamp at -6 dB is a no-brainer.

And looking closer at the Yamaha A-S1000 amp's schematics, the tone control circuit is bypassed with tone controls flat. So I might just as well used the Yamaha's volume control instead of fiddling with external attenuators. The sub will be fed from its preout, so the volume control is shared. The rest of the family will also appreciate the foolproof analog volume control - if controlled from the ADI-2 DAC, they'll be asking me "where is the volume at?"

  • From: Hongkong
  • Registered: 2021-06-30
  • Posts: 720

Re: Some ADI-2 DAC FS questions

anttipi wrote:

Thanks guys, much appreciated!

I'll proceed as KaiS suggested with the volume/gain. As Foobar2000 does its RG magic in 32 bit floating point, leaving the RG preamp at -6 dB is a no-brainer.

And looking closer at the Yamaha A-S1000 amp's schematics, the tone control circuit is bypassed with tone controls flat. So I might just as well used the Yamaha's volume control instead of fiddling with external attenuators. The sub will be fed from its preout, so the volume control is shared. The rest of the family will also appreciate the foolproof analog volume control - if controlled from the ADI-2 DAC, they'll be asking me "where is the volume at?"


There is an option that you can lock the RME volume at the set level.

Pacifist, dumb, not stupid
Listen music out from a box which sounds
Reading words on paper/ screen