Topic: Questions for ADI-2 PRO (potential purchase)

Hi all,

I am a potential buyer for the ADI-2 PRO. Did some homework but not sure if I am buying the right machine for my set-up.

What I need:

1. A Dac with a good clock, a good headphone amp to drive my "better" 250ohm headphones

2. Livestreaming/recording for gaming on PC. Specifics below:
I want to hear "combined" channels' audio output from my earphones (or speakers output). I read that ADI-2 PRO has two separate DAC chips which are recognized by PC as two distinct hardware output. So I'm thinking about routing one channel for my game and the other for my discord (friends' audio). This way I can hear Discord sounds but not record/stream them live via settings in OBS. I tried using some software plug-in solutions via OBS but with no luck.

3. I sometimes play on PS4 (or PS5 if I got one) (targeted to utilize the optical link out for main game audio) while keeping my PC on for voice chat, music, whatever. Again it will be great if I can have the "combined" channels from all inputs from PS and PC - with individual volume settings? - so I can hear everything well.

4. I have a Focusrite 2i2 for mic preamp/guitar recording and livestreaming purposes. Is it possible (or should I?) that I route the outputs from the 2i2 to the inputs of ADI-2 PRO and enter the system for use? I feel like I'm essentially asking two questions here:

a) For general gaming/chatting/livestreaming with audio input separation on PC, ADI-2 PRO got no mic preamp and there seems to be no specific reason that I need to utilize ADI-2 PRO;

b) For guitar practicing and/or recording (hope we have some musicians here), I have a Kemper Stage. I used to set up one output from Kemper directly to my powered speakers so I hear exactly what I am playing real-time and one output (which has the "clean", "weak" guitar signal) going into the 2i2, then into my PC for recording. Again I'm not very sure about ADI-2 PRO's role here. But I am happy to be inspired to utilize this great device.

5. I wonder if I can set all the above up without further meddling the settings / cables each time I use the devices for various said purposes. I guess it will also be very taxing on the ADI-2 PRO and it's a big no-no to jam up so many digital/analog signals. I  at least will not be gaming while producing music lol.

Sorry for the long (or even confusing post). Hope I set my eyes on the right device. But if I'm not please let me know if I should look at other RME products/combinations.

Thanks all in advance.

2 (edited by KaiS 2022-05-05 16:25:43)

Re: Questions for ADI-2 PRO (potential purchase)

Although I have to admit that I do not completely understand your targets, I think ADI-2 Pro is not the right device for you.

ADI -2 Pro is not capable of mixing several different inputs into one single output at the same time.


You would need a device that supports RME’s TotalMix.

The BabyFace Pro offers this, and already has 6 dB more output level then the 2i2  on the ‘phones:
https://www.rme-audio.de/babyface-pro-fs.html

The next step is the RME UCX II, offering more I/Os and another 6 dB more output level for your Beyerdynamic ‘phones.
https://www.rme-audio.de/fireface-ucx-ii.html
It has Direct USB Recording, might come in handy if you are a musician:
https://rme-audio.de/durec.html


Both interfaces can replace your Focusrite 2i2, offering an all in one solution, including microphone and instrument inputs and capable headphones output.

3 (edited by ramses 2022-05-05 15:46:14)

Re: Questions for ADI-2 PRO (potential purchase)

You need a recording interface with TotalMix FX to get the necessary flexibility in routing.
You can combine this with the ADI-2 Pro if needed.
I would recommend the new UCX II because it inherits a lot of useful features from the flagship UFX II/+ interfaces. First class analog section with Mic Preamps with up to 75dB gain, Autoset, DURec (Direct USB Recording) and much more.

The following blog article contains an Excel list to help you compare the different USB/TB interfaces.
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/Ent … B-MADIfac/
Direct link to the Excel file: https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/attachme … 4-08-xlsx/

This blog article shows you how you could combine for example UCX II and ADI-2 Pro FS R BE. For the connection you can use the AES port on the UCX II and still have 1x ADAT I/O free for expansion:
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/Ent … our-Setup/

This blog article contains a lot of information about the reference converter ADI-2 Pro FS R BE and gives you a good overview about the devices: https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/Ent … es-EN-DE/.

The presence of several analog inputs and outputs allows you later still the connection of external devices, which could well occur.

But Rome was not built in a day either. You can start with the recording interface and later expand it with the ADI-2 Pro FS R BE to run the monitoring via active monitors and headphones.

The SRC (sample rate converter) in the ADI-2 Pro FS R BE could also serve you well when connecting guitar models, if the devices only support a fixed sample rate or cannot be used as clock slave.
But that's not tragic, thanks to RME's Steadyclock technology a RME recording interface is always best set up as clock slave, see also the informative video by Matthias Carstens, which you can find on this website:
https://www.rme-audio.de/steadyclock-fs.html

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: Questions for ADI-2 PRO (potential purchase)

Thanks so much both for the swift reply. I'll take some time to digest these lol.

Open to comments other may have on the query.

5 (edited by JesseRC 2022-05-06 04:13:21)

Re: Questions for ADI-2 PRO (potential purchase)

Hi Kais, Ramses,

While I'm reading the links and Excel files you provided, I wonder if I can complete the set-up step-by-step (due to budget concerns), and I also wonder if the ADI-2 PRO (or the DAC version) is what I need.

1. Perhaps first I have to let go or deprioritize the recording part or just let my focusrite 2i2 does its work independently in my mixes / general mic / stream use. This way, if I'm not mistaken, it only goes into my PC/DAW via direct USB and uses its own ASIO driver. But I have to take the consequence that I cannot playback via ADI-2 PRO while using the DAW (or I can?)

2. Is the ADI-2 Pro still an option if I:

a. need a good USB DAC plus good headphone pre-amp for music enjoyment - guess it is
b. use it for my original point 2, i.e.: Livestreaming/recording for gaming on PC:
I can hear "combined" channels' audio output from my earphones (or speakers output), benefited from ADI-2 PRO having 2 DAC chips which are recognized by PC as two distinct hardware output. One channel is routed for my game and the other for my discord (friends' audio). I'll also separate the settings in OBS. Or I have completely looked into the wrong direction here?

Sorry if I have confused myself here. But hopefully I have simplified the situation with the realistic budget I have. Thanks!!

EDIT1: (For pure discussion at this moment), I noted Ramses' suggestion of also purchasing an RME interface with TotalMix FX to complete the set-up. Am I right that the RME interface is to be connected to the PC separately - and then it uses the ARC USB and/or the TotalMix Windows software to control the various digital inputs (e.g. from PS / PC) going into the ADI-2 PRO before they are simultaneously output from the ADI-2 PRO to my phones/speakers?

EDIT2: Still not sure if I've got my mind straight. If I am looking forward to "combine" various digital inputs and outputting them in the same analog output(s), I should look into the "recording" audio interface first? It will not degrade the digital signals - once they can be combined and assigned - I can leave the work to ADI-2 DAC / PRO as they convert the received digital signals to quality outputs (e.g. to my phones). I feel like a complete fool now lol.

6 (edited by ramses 2022-05-06 08:18:57)

Re: Questions for ADI-2 PRO (potential purchase)

Quoting myself

ramses wrote:

You need a recording interface with TotalMix FX to get the necessary flexibility in routing.
You can combine this with the ADI-2 Pro if needed.

In TotalMix FX routing is extremely flexible and versatile.
You are free to send audio from
- PC (Youtube, ...)
- Music Player like MusicBee with ASIO Support
- Games sound output (if game allows to select audio output)
- DAW
to different outputs ... but not to the real outputs of your recording interface, audio 1st arrives in the middle row called "SW playbacks", this is audio from PC.

The real HW outputs you have in the bottom row of TM FX, called "HW Output".
Each of the HW outputs has an individual submix.

In submix mode you click e.g. to your phones output and can then create an individual submix of
- HW inputs (top row) with near-zero latency over the digital matrix in the device
- SW playbacks (middle row) with the usual RTL (round trip latency)
by simply moving the faders of HW inputs and SW playbacks.

When clicking through all of your HW outputs in the bottom row you see all these individual routings per HW output by watching the fader position of HW Inputs and SW playbacks.
By pressing "sub" buttom on the right side you see only those channels who send audio to such a HW output also called "submix".

On each HW output you can use "Loopback" to get this customized submix on the corresponding HW input if you want to record it or to feed it to another application.

This is a great very powerful possibility for routing in every situation, be it to create very flexible monitor/headphone mixes for DAW work, but not limited to that.

I am an occasional gamer. One example of TM FX flexibility is, that you can play a game, listen to Youtube in the background and then using your own Music as background music. SO to say a submix of
- PC audio (youtube)
- game audio
- Music Player

The phones outputs of the RME recording interfaces are already very good...

Therefore I would start with a recording interface to get FM FX for your setup 1st and at any time later you can add an ADI-2 Pro FS R BE if you want.

In contrast to that the routing of ADI-2 Pro FS R BE is different, see block diagrams in the manual.
You have predefined modes with a little bit of customization. Something like a SW mixer is missing.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

7 (edited by JesseRC 2022-05-06 08:58:45)

Re: Questions for ADI-2 PRO (potential purchase)

Thanks very much Remses.

Noted that Babeface's phone amp is good. Anyways, I understand I need both devices to complete the set up (just that I can't atm).

Back to our use example, perhaps I'll re-list the scenario with even greater details - to check if my understanding is correct.

Gear: Babyface (Let's say I don't have ADI-2)

Scenario 1: PC gaming / streaming

Audio sources in the PC (by applications)
- Youtube, chrome whatever
- Music players (Tidal/Spotify/Foobar)
- Games sound
- Discord (hearing other people's sound)

I'm just trying to make sense here. Windows itself can only recognize Babyface as one input/output device, right? So, if TM FX works, it can actually collect each application source directly and free/sub-mix before they all go out to Babyface's output (e.g. speakers/phones).

I think I understand: for my own mic (analog) input, I can use TM FX to enable/disable passthrough or just mute in playback - so no issues on this front.

Scenario 2: Keeping Scenario 1's use AND adding PS game audio (optical)

For this one if I understand scenario 1 correctly, adding PS game audio in should have no issues at all... since I just have to map the digital in from PS to Babyface, then assign it to my output - done. Am I right?

If I understand all the above correctly, just one more Q on the output settings on TM FX. So the route is (?)..:

1. Babyface Optical In (whatever, another device) / USB in for various audio sources from PC - these form Audio In, first row of the TM FX window;
2. Second row: SW playbacks - this is where I want my PC to "passthrough (?)" or playback what were assigned in Audio In row; and
3. Third row: HW playback - are these the physical outputs of the Babyface? And I have to map from SW playbacks to complete the chain; or else I won't hear any sound?

Apologies and thanks for the patience on this one. I tried reading through the pages and also the TM FX videos but can't solve it myself.

Thanks!!

8 (edited by KaiS 2022-05-06 10:50:17)

Re: Questions for ADI-2 PRO (potential purchase)

I think you are confusing yourself by too many informations.


Condensed:
ADI-2 Pro: you can listen to one source at a time only, no mixing (or “combining“ like you name it).

Exception:
You can listen to one source on headphones (output 3/4, 2nd DAC) while playing another source on loudspeakers (output 1/2, 1st DAC)



With a TotalMix FX capable interface like the Fireface UCX-2 you can mix (“combine”) ALL your different sources to listen at the same time on headphones or speaker.

All can be plugged in and active at the same time, no switching necessary to use one or the other.

Headphones output of UCX-2 equals the quality of ADI-2 Pro for you 250 Ohms headphone.

I strongly suggest UCX-2, sell 2i2 and forget about the rest.

Re: Questions for ADI-2 PRO (potential purchase)

Thanks Kais. Yes perhaps I'm flooded with information.

Understood that the "combination" functionality only comes from interfaces with TotalMix FX (which essentially is a mixer).

I'm looking at the manuals of both UCX-2 and ADI-2 PRO to see the headphones preamp capabilities. In terms of DAC chip/abilities, I bet the ADI-2 PRO is better? Well.. again it goes back to the first solution, buying both lol.

Re: Questions for ADI-2 PRO (potential purchase)

JesseRC wrote:

In terms of DAC chip/abilities, I bet the ADI-2 PRO is better? Well.. again it goes back to the first solution, buying both lol.

If you start with UCX-2 you might find that you can skip ADI-2 Pro.

Some dB S/N ratio and such, more or less, don’t make a difference for the audible result.

Usability makes the difference for the fun you get out of your setup.

Re: Questions for ADI-2 PRO (potential purchase)

Yeah Kais.

While I read on and on, I started to understand why you recommend UCXII.

For music production (which is long term), it offers lots of good tools; also got mic preamps and stuff. If I don't have super expensive headphones and music audio sources, I may not be able to hear differences between the conversion in UCXII and ADI-2 DAC/PRO.

I just tumbled on ADI-2 PRO first as I thought about enjoying the music and mixes (RME is known for not "hi-fi"-ish which fits my appetite).

Still doing my reading lol.

12 (edited by KaiS 2022-05-06 13:38:38)

Re: Questions for ADI-2 PRO (potential purchase)

JesseRC wrote:

... If I don't have super expensive headphones and music audio sources, I may not be able to hear differences between the conversion in UCXII and ADI-2 DAC/PRO

I have super expensive headphones, more than one pair, and can confirm that the differences are at the edge of, or below audible for most quality DACs and amplifiers.

The reports you can read all over the net about night and day differences don’t stand the proof of true unbiased, level matched blind A/B comparisons.

It’s simply, people don’t have the knowledge or equipment to do these type of tests.

Expectation bias is the motor of the audiophile industry.
This is why the more expensive always “sounds better”.

Re: Questions for ADI-2 PRO (potential purchase)

Very nice summary in last two lines of your reply. I trust science and charts more than "descriptors" of what sound better, or those BS of "running-in" phones lol.

The image has become clearer. For my use purposes, probably it's UCXII over ADI-2. I haven't fully decided between the two, but will likely come back with questions over set-up once I make the purchase.

So glad to have you attentive experts here.

14 (edited by Curt962 2022-05-06 16:43:59)

Re: Questions for ADI-2 PRO (potential purchase)

Jesse,

Following along from afar, I think that you've been given Solid, Straightforward advice!  Facts. Not "Fluff" 

Choose the RME that suits your needs best, and you'll never look back!

Best Wishes to You for a fine result.

Curt

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic AKM4490 Edition"
Cables:  Red, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes

15 (edited by JesseRC 2022-05-06 23:38:26)

Re: Questions for ADI-2 PRO (potential purchase)

Thanks Curt.

I'm looking for UCXII stock but unfortunately the famous DE/UK store has no stock lol. If I order from Amazon, it's gonna be more expensive (original price). Keep looking ha!

EDIT1: As I'm browsing for UCXII, I saw there's a PCIe card of HDSPe AIO Pro. Does it do similar work as UXCII? Anyone knows? It seems to have good converter chips, TM FX, various inputs and outputs via the breakout cables.

16 (edited by ramses 2022-05-07 06:51:43)

Re: Questions for ADI-2 PRO (potential purchase)

The HDSPe AIO Pro is also a good recording interface.

You need to compare the type/number of ports and features and look what fits best.

The technical section of both manuals is also helpful to
- determine the ports/capabilities
- technical data

https://www.rme-audio.de/downloads/hdspeaiopro_d.pdf
https://www.rme-audio.de/downloads/hdspeaiopro_e.pdf

https://www.rme-audio.de/downloads/fface_ucx2_d.pdf
https://www.rme-audio.de/downloads/fface_ucx2_e.pdf

Some features the HDSPe AIO Pro is missing:
- no Mic preamps (thus no Instr Ports, no Autoset)
- not so many analog ports to be able to connect ext. devices
- no DUrec
- no FX chip for effects in TM FX
- no standalone capabilities
- no Class Compliant mode
- ...

Another question is, whether you have one fix Desktop PC to mount a PCIe card or whether you want to have a certain flexibility by using USB and to bring the ports closer to your workdesk. With a PCIe card you have the ports always on the back of your computer "below" the desk / hidden and for getting some ports you have have work with breakout cables.

It doesn't matter whether you use USB or PCIe performance wise, only marginal differences.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: Questions for ADI-2 PRO (potential purchase)

Thanks much Ramses.

For my purposes (and future expansions), UCX II makes more sense - so I've made my order through a local distributor!

More Qs to come over the set-up. I'm very looking forward to the mic and instrument ins and compare with my focusrite 2i2.

18 (edited by ramses 2022-05-10 08:20:29)

Re: Questions for ADI-2 PRO (potential purchase)

The Mic preamps come from the UFX II and have 75 dB gain range, it will be overall much better compared to those from 2i2.

If I were you I would use the wait time for delivery and watch the RME tutorial videos about TotalMix FX to get a good overview about TM FX capabilities and features.
Once you have this overview, then reading the manual will be much easier. The manual is well structured. It gives you an overview about the device and it's capabilities, tells you how to install drivers (which contain TM FX mixer), how to update firmware, details capabiliy of analog and digital inputs and outputs.
The technical section is very helpful to see in the analog section, what reference levels are supported for inputs and outputs.

I recommend that you first flip through the manual and read it crosswise. So that you first get a feeling for what you will find in it. Then I would start to go through the whole thing from front to back. Depending on your needs, you can also read one or the other more closely and pass over other passages more quickly.

This sticky contains also the links to a list of video tutorials from my blog.
https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=34394

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

19 (edited by JesseRC 2022-05-10 12:08:37)

Re: Questions for ADI-2 PRO (potential purchase)

Thanks much Ramses on this one. Very useful resources and I already have a picture of what's going on with TM FX. It should operate similarly to the daw mixer but the greatness that the processing is in the rme hardware. Genius.

Waiting for my unit to arrive!!

Edit1: oh just one Q: as I will have various input (digital, some wdm, some asio), what will be the best output sample rate and buffer? I'm not very sure as I suppose various input have their own bitrates and stuff but I want to target a better overall output without cracking. Thanks!

20 (edited by KaiS 2022-05-10 14:58:07)

Re: Questions for ADI-2 PRO (potential purchase)

JesseRC wrote:

Edit1: oh just one Q: as I will have various input (digital, some wdm, some asio), what will be the best output sample rate and buffer? I'm not very sure as I suppose various input have their own bitrates and stuff but I want to target a better overall output without cracking. Thanks!

The “best” playback sample rate is the original file’s one.
Every sample rate conversion SRC alters the file content and carries some losses.

This is especially true and possibly even audible for CD format 44.1 kHz files.

The driver can automatically switch SR for playback.


Bit depth is of no concern.
If you use 24 bit or above, 16 bit files are played without loss, the lower bits are simply filled with zeroes.


Recording is another story:
In my opinion 96 kHz 24 bit is the “best” format.

The sample rate is way high enough to have the Anti-Aliasing Filter out of the audible range (by a factor of “2”).
24 bit has a dynamic range and resolution of 144 dB, again way beyond any natural source’s or converter’s Signal To Noise Ratio.

Every higher format only blows up file size without gathering more content.


Avoid DSD:
Practically, the format is a pain in the ass in every aspect and should never have creeped out from below it’s stone.
Lots of hustle and no extra sound quality.

Re: Questions for ADI-2 PRO (potential purchase)

Thanks much Kais on the extra information over recording. It's very useful. Gonna use 24bit 96khz for my guitar and vocal recording in the future.

Re: Questions for ADI-2 PRO (potential purchase)

Hey all! Thanks for all the feedback previously. I have been a very happy user of the UCXII - almost half a month now. I have some follow-up questions though:

1. In USB settings, I am now running buffer size 192 samples and I run 192K hz as sample rate.. well pretty much useless I know as it affects audio input only, right?
2. Sometimes I use PS4 (optical in) and also my computer sounds, Discord, etc. But I see that the adat sign is flashing all the time. It seems apparent that there's a desync in clock mode. What should be the proper solution/settings in this scenario?
3. For my scenario 1 (on May 6), I made a submix of game/discord/tidal/windows sound into Audio out 5+6, then loopback to OBS as livestream sound. Is it a good routing? Besides, I initially wanted to separate them into 3 different channels (3+4/5+6/7+8) but I found that if I toggled loopback the audio for Audio 7+8 (which is "Phones" output by default), there is no sound going to OBS. Is it normal?
4. Is it normal to have 4 WDM devices as cap for analog ins/outs? Is there any "virtual" capabilities from UCXII (not that I need it at the moment though)?

If it matters, I have assigned Main Out to Audio 1+2 and Phone 1 to Phones. When I want to hear from my speakers, I just mute the phones, and vice versa.

Thanks again all for keeping up with my long Qs.

23 (edited by Happy_amateur 2022-06-04 16:23:13)

Re: Questions for ADI-2 PRO (potential purchase)

2. You shouldnt use optical when clock is set to internal. You will get sound, but the sound from ps4 will be degraded. As UCXII has no SRC there is no fix for this except for taking analog out from PS4 to UCXII. That would fix clocking issue as AD run from internal clock(like USB) AD conversion is so good so youd have a hard time telling it from the original analog signal + you can adjust level and EQ to taste

ADI-2 DAC, ADI-2 PRO, DigifaceUSB, UCXII, ARC, HEGEL.h80, KEF.ls50, HD650, ie400pro _,.\''/.,_

Re: Questions for ADI-2 PRO (potential purchase)

>If it matters, I have assigned Main Out to Audio 1+2 and Phone 1 to Phones. When I want to hear from my speakers, I just mute the phones, and vice versa

Store the different routings to snapshots and rename them to Phones, Speakers, PS4 or whatever you fancy. Remeber to set clock to desired input as this will not follow snapshots. This routine will absolutely come in handy for future projects as you become a more experienced user. Remember TMfx is key to utilize UCXII.

ADI-2 DAC, ADI-2 PRO, DigifaceUSB, UCXII, ARC, HEGEL.h80, KEF.ls50, HD650, ie400pro _,.\''/.,_

Re: Questions for ADI-2 PRO (potential purchase)

If you want shave off a few dollars I can certainely recommend the ADI-2 DAC to tandem the UCXII. Im a newbie myself, and how the clocking in digital works is something that can be daunting. Its not enough to have the same frequenzy like 44.1, they have to be in phase to or sync. Use state overview in UCXII driver page for this. It can be either --(no signal), lock, or sync. In your example with PS4 that optical signal would be status: lock. This will give sound, but listening to music you will hear that its flat and a bit skreeky. You may not notice right away so this can be annoying big_smile forgot to set damn clock again big_smile

ADI-2 DAC, ADI-2 PRO, DigifaceUSB, UCXII, ARC, HEGEL.h80, KEF.ls50, HD650, ie400pro _,.\''/.,_