Topic: limited auto ref level when playing DSD files

Hello everyone.

I recently noticed a strange feature of the "auto ref level" mode. When I playback DSD files on my ADI 2 Pro with auto ref level on, using balanced phone output, the volume is limited to -15.0 dBr Lo-Power(auto) and won't switch to Hi-Power(, or limited to -20.0 dBr, ref level +4 dBu for TRS line out, with DSD direct off). I have to pause the music and turn up the Vol knob, then it "clicks" and jumps to higher gain.
But it's able to switch all the way down to lower level while playing, and then, again, limited in the lowest level.

Is it designed to work this way? (To ensure the DSD playback quality, or for... overload protection or so?) I didn't found a explanation near "DSD" and "auto ref level" related chapters in user's manual.

Is this normal? Has anyone noticed this too?

Thanks

Re: limited auto ref level when playing DSD files

sounds like a bug to me.

Re: limited auto ref level when playing DSD files

ning wrote:

sounds like a bug to me.

Thanks for reply! Actually I've been using my ADI for more than a year (but I'm new to this forum). Didn't notice this bug-like situation before. Does this happen on your device too?

Re: limited auto ref level when playing DSD files

BTW my device is running the latest 262/112 firmware.

5

Re: limited auto ref level when playing DSD files

Works over here. The description either lacks an important detail, or is wrong. AutoRef has zero relation to the playback signal, because that signal is not examined and used for whatever AutoRef is doing. The only other parameter is EQ/BT/LD, but these are off in DSD mode, and not taken into account during DSD (just checked).

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

6

Re: limited auto ref level when playing DSD files

ross141b wrote:

or limited to -20.0 dBr, ref level +4 dBu for TRS line out, with DSD direct off).

In balanced phones mode the only RefLevels are Hi and Lo Power. There is no +4dBu available.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: limited auto ref level when playing DSD files

MC wrote:

Works over here. The description either lacks an important detail, or is wrong. AutoRef has zero relation to the playback signal, because that signal is not examined and used for whatever AutoRef is doing. The only other parameter is EQ/BT/LD, but these are off in DSD mode, and not taken into account during DSD (just checked).

Hello MC. Thanks for your reply. I also think it shouldn't be related to playback signal -- but it happens, and that's why I call it a strange feature. Yes those settings are either off or disabled, showing "(on)", but the auto ref problem still there.

It may be a bit complicated, but the whole process is exactly the same as I described. I try to attach a video of it later.
I use PC as USB input source,  phone out or TRS lineout as analog out. Or any other details needed? Please let me know.

Thanks!

Re: limited auto ref level when playing DSD files

MC wrote:
ross141b wrote:

or limited to -20.0 dBr, ref level +4 dBu for TRS line out, with DSD direct off).

In balanced phones mode the only RefLevels are Hi and Lo Power. There is no +4dBu available.

Exactly. This +4dBu circumstance in brackets is for TRS single ended lineout.

The problem happens on both analog output, each are limited in their own lowest level.

9

Re: limited auto ref level when playing DSD files

Not sure why you talk about balanced phones mode and then refer to values for the rear output. But even then, the ref level for the rear output is not in brackets but greyed out. In fact all settings for Main Output 1/2 are. Hopefully the video will give some clues.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: limited auto ref level when playing DSD files

MC wrote:

Not sure why you talk about balanced phones mode and then refer to values for the rear output. But even then, the ref level for the rear output is not in brackets but greyed out. In fact all settings for Main Output 1/2 are. Hopefully the video will give some clues.

Actually I took those two outputs as examples. For Main Output 1/2 the limit is +4, for Bal Phone is Lo-Power, that's it. Well just forget about these specific dB values. The problem happens with all these outputs. And the key point is this one-way-down limit.

Hope the video below makes sense. Using Main Output1/2, to a headphoneAmp.

Thanks!

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1WLX5o7 … sp=sharing

11

Re: limited auto ref level when playing DSD files

So the reason you can change the levels on stop is not audio/no audio, but that on stop you are in PCM mode. I can not reproduce this (nor anyone else).

There are two ways to handle this: one is to provide a video of all settings of the unit, in the hope that there is some specific, unusual setting or settings combination that throws this bug behaviour. Then we might be able to fix it by a firmware update, IF the reason is such a setting and we can identify it.

Or just do a factory reset. Chances are high it starts working again.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: limited auto ref level when playing DSD files

MC wrote:

So the reason you can change the levels on stop is not audio/no audio, but that on stop you are in PCM mode. I can not reproduce this (nor anyone else).

There are two ways to handle this: one is to provide a video of all settings of the unit, in the hope that there is some specific, unusual setting or settings combination that throws this bug behaviour. Then we might be able to fix it by a firmware update, IF the reason is such a setting and we can identify it.

Or just do a factory reset. Chances are high it starts working again.

Thanks for the suggestions. I just did a factory reset, all the settings are restored, also tried reinstalling the firmware, but didn't solve the problem. Is there any other solution?

Re: limited auto ref level when playing DSD files

More details.

Mine is a slightly older AE model and just back from repair last month, due to USB input defect. Could this bug-like problem be related to hardware error? I didn't think of this at first, cuz it also happens when I use SPc input.

I don't know if this problem existed from the beginning before the repair, I haven't had a headphone that requires such high voltage back then, thus the auto ref feature didn't play a big part.

Re: limited auto ref level when playing DSD files

going to send my unit to Audio AG Service for further diagnosis.

15

Re: limited auto ref level when playing DSD files

Thanks for sending in the unit. It turned out that this is a bug in the firmware, only happening with older units wih AK4490 chip. This has been fixed, firmware update coming soon.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: limited auto ref level when playing DSD files

MC wrote:

Thanks for sending in the unit. It turned out that this is a bug in the firmware, only happening with older units wih AK4490 chip. This has been fixed, firmware update coming soon.

Glad to hear you found a solution. Look forward to the new firmware: )

Re: limited auto ref level when playing DSD files

Updated to the latest firmware. Problem well solved! Professional and quick response! (shipment took some time though, haha)
Thanks